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  • Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood go in different directions

    by Sunny
    28th February, 2011 at 1:44 pm    

    This is very encouraging:

    A group of roughly 2000 young members of the Muslim Brotherhood say they are planning to stage a “revolt” against the group’s authoritative Guidance Bureau and Shura Council on 17 March to demand the dissolution of the two governing bodies.

    Young members say there is no reason why the group should work in secrecy considering the “wave of freedom” witnessed by Egypt following the 25 January uprising, which led to the ouster of Egypt’s longstanding president Hosni Mubarak on 11 February.

    Looks like the pro-democracy fervour in Egypt has deeply infected the Muslim Brotherhood there too.

    On the other hand, Hamas are trying to stop a UN programme from teaching Palestinian children about the Holocaust. There is accompanying Holocaust denial too.

    We cannot agree to a programme that is intended to poison the minds of our children,” said a statement from the ministry for refugee affairs.

    “Holocaust studies in refugee camps is a contemptible plot and serves the Zionist entity with a goal of creating a reality and telling stories in order to justify acts of slaughter against the Palestinian people.”

    Is there anyone still out there who believes Hamas aren’t anti-semitic?

                  Post to

    Filed in: Current affairs,Middle East

    36 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. sunny hundal

      Blogged: : Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood go in different directions

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      “@sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood go in different directions” Splitters!

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      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood go in different directions

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      Pickled Politics » Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood go in different directions

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      RT @sunny_hundal: Blogged: : Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood go in different directions

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      Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood go in different directions | Pickled Politics »

    1. Rumbold — on 28th February, 2011 at 1:46 pm  

      Good piece Sunny.

    2. douglas clark — on 28th February, 2011 at 1:57 pm  

      That the MB might not be quite what the MB thought they were is odd. The mere idea that young MB folk might see things a bit differently from their elders is, at the very least, interesting. What might they become? A sort of Liberal Party?

    3. cjcjc — on 28th February, 2011 at 2:06 pm  

      Ben White?

    4. cjcjc — on 28th February, 2011 at 2:09 pm  

      A sort of Liberal Party?

      Douglas you are a scream.

    5. cjcjc — on 28th February, 2011 at 2:18 pm  

      From Sunny’s “encouraging” article:

      “They also demand the formation of a transitional committee mandated with directing the group’s affairs until a new board can be elected. They have suggested that the proposed committee be headed by Mohamed Mahdi Akef, the group’s previous general guide.”

      Who he, you ask?

      “The leader of Egypt’s opposition Muslim Brotherhood has joined Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in calling the Nazi Holocaust a “myth”.
      Mohammed Mahdi Akef accused the West of attacking anyone who questioned that the Nazis killed some six million Jews.”

      How very encouraging.

      Doesn’t look as though they’re going in different directions at all.

    6. Boyo — on 28th February, 2011 at 2:36 pm  

      This article by Olivier Roy may be of interest….

    7. douglas clark — on 28th February, 2011 at 2:44 pm  

      cjcjc @ 4,

      You have always been a sort of contrary person. I said what I said at 2 just because it would dig out someone like you. And here you are:

      Douglas you are a scream.

      But it is interesting to follow a path that doesn’t exactly follow your ideas’ of what is right and what is wrong.

      It is pretty obvious that you and I disagree, most of the time.

      It is very obvious that I think you are a cheapskate whippersnapper or worse. I suspect you just play a game around here, a pretendy point of view that you hide behind. cjcjc, that, frankly, is the ‘you’ that you allow us to see. It is, obviously, a load of nonsense.

      You are, sir, a very shallow person and not actually worthy of anyone here.

    8. cjcjc — on 28th February, 2011 at 2:51 pm  

      So, did you read #5?

      I am so sorry to be “shallow” about it, but calling for a holocaust denier to take charge of this “transitional committee” doesn’t strike me as terribly encouraging.

      Does it strike you that way?

    9. douglas clark — on 28th February, 2011 at 3:05 pm  

      cjcjc @ 8,

      I have no idea what you are trying to say. Who is the holocaust denier of which you speak?

      Lets assume that i do not actually care about how shallow and ridiculous you are. Let’s assume you have something, anything, to say.

      Well, lets hear it cjcjc!

    10. cjcjc — on 28th February, 2011 at 3:08 pm  

      Just read #5 again more slowly.
      Read Sunny’s “encouraging” article.
      Read the BBC report.

    11. Sunny — on 28th February, 2011 at 5:33 pm  

      You do realise cjcjc that the “encouraging” bit refers to their demands for more democracy? Or that too problematic for you? Perhaps you should write a letter to them informing them of your demands.

    12. cjcjc — on 28th February, 2011 at 5:37 pm  

      Pity about their choice of holocaust denier, though, eh?

      So, swings and roundabouts…

      “Perhaps you should write a letter to them informing them of your demands.”

      And will you be writing to Hamas?

      Come on, seriously.
      Douglas I expect to know nothing.
      Of you I expect more!!

    13. Scooby — on 28th February, 2011 at 6:38 pm  

      Opposition to secrecy does not imply support for democracy. That’s just wishful thinking. And even if young members of the MB want greater transparency and a bigger say in the affairs of the MB, that doesn’t mean they’ve changed their opinion of how a proper Islamic society should function. The MB have been very clear in the past that democracy is inferior, in their view, to a state based on sharia/caliphate, as the former is “man made” while the latter is decreed by God. No sign of any change there.

    14. Scooby — on 28th February, 2011 at 6:40 pm  

      From the article:

      Young members say the group’s role should be restricted to preaching the teachings of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna.

      What are the teachings of al-Banna? From Wikipedia:

      To help consecrate the Islamic order, al-Banna called for banning all Western influences from education and ordered that all primary schools should be part of the mosques. He also wanted a ban on political parties and democratic institutions other than a Shura (Islamic-council), and wanted all government officials to have a religious study as main education.

      Oh yes, very promising.

    15. cjcjc — on 28th February, 2011 at 7:08 pm  

      Well you *could* argue that if they restricted themselves just to *preaching* that might not be such a bad outcome…albeit holocaust denying anti-semitic hatred…

    16. Sarah AB — on 28th February, 2011 at 8:11 pm  

      I agree with cjcjc (for once!)

    17. damon — on 28th February, 2011 at 8:39 pm  

      Douglas, cjcjc may just be a whippersnapper to you, and I suspect that when he mentions Ben White’s name, you have no idea what he’s talking about.

      I don’t know enough about the MB to say much about this demand from younger members. But young one’s can be just as extreme as older ones I guess.
      I hear that the long established brothel street in Tunis had been closed down recently.

    18. Refresh — on 28th February, 2011 at 9:20 pm  

      What I will never ever understand is the politics of holocaust denial. Why the heck do these people think that denial is a reasonable stance, when they were not reponsible? Why don’t they put the blame for the holocaust firmly where it belongs - onto Europe? It has no place in the middle east, never had.

      Winds of change are blowing, and the next 50 year plan is being settled as we speak. Holocaust happened, it was a culmination of 2000 years of political spite. It happened in Europe. Not everything of Europe is good.

      The middle east needs to show its independence and if its going to shed these dictators and placemen, then it can do even better by ridding itself of another parasite - anti-semitism.

    19. Refresh — on 28th February, 2011 at 9:45 pm  

      Whilst the winds are blowing we need a parallel program of education where all Israeli school children learn about the Nakba. The Holocaust and the Nakba are closely interwoven, one flowed from the other.

      Understanding of that essential point is fundamental to a lasting settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. That will go some way to reduce the brutishness of the zionist movement and soften the pull of a violent response on the palestinian side.

    20. Don — on 28th February, 2011 at 9:58 pm  


      I’m not entirely sure that calling for the closure of brothels is one of the more extreme aspects of fundamentalism. Of course I am aware of the argument that recognition of the sex industry is a step towards protection of those engaged in it, but I have a gut feeling that Tunisian brothels aren’t on that page.

      I have absolutely no evidence to go by, never having been in either.

      If they were attacking the women rather than the institution I would be with you, but the link doesn’t really show that.

    21. damon — on 28th February, 2011 at 10:53 pm  

      Don, I wasn’t making any particular point about the brothels. Closing them down isn’t necessarly the sign of fundamentalism, but, from what I read, it was the fundamentalists who actually did it. We’ll see if they go for places that sell alcohol.

      This (alarmist) story was in the the Daily Mail.

      It says this though:

      In keeping with Tunisia’s deep-rooted secularism and unprecedented championing of Muslim women’s rights, the prostitutes carry cards issued by the Interior Ministry, pay taxes like everyone else and enjoy (along with their clients) the full protection of the law.

    22. Kismet Hardy — on 1st March, 2011 at 12:00 am  

      “What I will never ever understand is the politics of holocaust denial. Why the heck do these people think that denial is a reasonable stance, when they were not reponsible?”

      It’s so true. Only the germans have any real reason to deny it and they’re clearly mortfied by the whole episode, to the point where even a spy novel carrying the swastika insignia doesn’t make it to press

      Very strange these holocaust deniers. I’d like to meet one, just to see if they really believe aushwitz was a sausage factory and shit

      Incidentally, there was a holocaust survivor who I became transfixed by at the showing of This Way For The Gas, Ladies and Gentlemen the other day. After building up the courage, I made a total prat of myself trying to talk to her at the end of the show. I won’t embarrass myself a second time by repeating the awful cringing shite that came out of my mouth, but I will tell you her answer: ‘I was actually at Bergen-Belsen. They mostly used guns.’

    23. joe90 — on 1st March, 2011 at 2:07 am  

      So hamas is preventing education about the holocaust. How ironic seeing as the state of israel has almost wiped the state of palestine from the world map.

      The state education policy of israel does not even allow in school books of arab israeli children the use of the word nakhba(disaster), referring to when 1 million palestinans where killed or evicted from their land during 1948 war.

      frikkin hypocrites!

    24. Sarah AB — on 1st March, 2011 at 6:25 am  

      Refresh - I don’t know anything about how these issues are handled in Israel, but my instinctive response is to agree that they should learn about the Nakba too - there does seem to be some teaching of the topic in Israel though.

    25. boyo — on 1st March, 2011 at 9:28 am  

      no one has a monopoly on suffering.

      Few speak of the million Jews displaced since 1948 - choosing sides Joe90 is just immature, like your philosophy.

      I was driving with an aid worker pal through the OT a while back when as we were stopped at another checkpoint he called (to me) Israelis “Nazis”.

      I reminded him that Nazism was the culmination of 2000 years of aggressive Christan anti-semitism, so did he think, as a Christian, that the two might be linked?

      It seems to me that Europe reserves a particular loathing for Israeli aggression as a projection of its past sins. The Israelis would have to work awfully hard to equal the total of Arabs the US and UK killed in Iraq only recently…

      Think of all the acres of angst churned out over Israel, yet of the Kurds, whose fate with respect to Turkey bears strong comparison, we hear next to nothing.

    26. damon — on 1st March, 2011 at 10:01 am  

      Sarah, just googling the words ”teaching nakba in Israel” threw up several articles on that.
      I wouldn’t think it could be done properly though.
      Unless at the very least, Palestinians were to come into the classroom and tell their family’s story.
      I’d guess that would be too contentious though.

      Btw, anyone watch that TV drama ”The Promise” these last few sundays? I know that pro-Israel people will have hated it.

    27. douglas clark — on 1st March, 2011 at 10:11 am  

      damon @ 17,

      Yes, I know who Ben White is. Frankly I think he is a bit one sided. Here are the headlines to his most recent articles on the Guardian.

      Jordan Valley is a microcosm of Israel’s colonisation

      Lessons from Camp David

      Israel seeks to silence dissent

      False hopes for Palestine

      Shattering Israel’s image of ‘democracy’

      Fragmenting Palestinian land

      Fatah and Hamas set for surface unity

      Real reform in Israel is a distant prospect

      It is a bit of a stretch to see him as a neutral journalist, is it not? No doubt he argues his case surprisingly well but it is hard to see that as anything other than adding fuel to a fire.

    28. Refresh — on 1st March, 2011 at 12:18 pm  


      Thank you for the link. I’ve read an introduction to one of that organisations conferences. It is well worth a look:

      ‘Introductory remarks

      Eitan Bronstein

    29. Naadir Jeewa — on 3rd March, 2011 at 12:36 am  

      Had a conversation with my lecturer this evening, and have this brief take:

      The reformists may be more socially liberal in very limited respects, but their foreign policy can be seen to be, in some extent, worse than their predecessors - and Mohamed Mahdi Akef is a clear example of this.

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