Pickled Politics

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  1. Surely 9am is a little early to be inciting violence?

    : )

    Comment by Riz — 2nd February, 2007 @ 12:22 am

  2. And we also have the head of Bournemouth Islamic Centre speaking out:

    “”But Mr Yasin said: “Many Muslims bring their own traditions here from their home countries.

    “But if people are living here they should respect this society and this country and not try to create a different society or culture.

    “Some people use the freedom here in the wrong way. By all means respect your traditions, but not by force.

    advertisement”For example, there is no specific Muslim form of dress, simply that women should be modestly dressed.”

    He added: “If people don’t like this society, they should go back home to their own country. There are plenty of airports.”"

    Source: thisisdorset.net / Dorset Daily Echo

    But on the other hand we now have soldiers who if hailing from areas with a significant muslim population, cannot let down their guard in their own towns. Which is disgusting. Hopefully some good will come of it in the reopening of military hospitals.

    Comment by Bert Preast — 2nd February, 2007 @ 12:34 am

  3. If those Muslim kids at King David grow up to be nice violin playing lawyers with that endearing self-deprecating sense of humour then I’m sending my kids there too.

    Comment by Sid — 2nd February, 2007 @ 12:49 am

  4. ha ha, good point Riz. I’m going to try and avoid inciting violence that early… as long as they being me some nice hot tea… mmm….

    Comment by Sunny — 2nd February, 2007 @ 1:03 am

  5. What good eggs!
    That’s fair put the spring back in my step. Also good point BP.

    Comment by Clairwil — 2nd February, 2007 @ 1:54 am

  6. Excellent! More good news please.

    Comment by Refresh — 2nd February, 2007 @ 2:08 am

  7. “King David is a strictly Jewish school. Judaism is the only religion taught. There’s a synagogue on site. The children learn modern Hebrew - Ivrit - the language of Israel. And they celebrate Israeli independence day.

    But half the 247 pupils at the 40-year-old local authority-supported school are Muslim, and apparently the Muslim parents go through all sorts of hoops, including moving into the school’s catchment area, to get their children into King David to learn Hebrew, wave Israeli flags on independence day and hang out with the people some would have us believe that they hate more than anyone in the world. (via El Cid)”

    Religion, education, politics, indoctrination of patriotism, and flag waving all rolled into one.

    Cute, isn’t it?

    Comment by Desi Italiana — 2nd February, 2007 @ 8:06 am

  8. Don’t you like it when Muslims and Jews get on, Desi?

    Comment by Katy — 2nd February, 2007 @ 9:36 am

  9. Sorry, that sounds rather abrasive. All schools involve political and patriotic indoctrination, certainly the schools I went to - I remember one Christian teacher saying to me “you may be Jewish, Katy, but you still have to obey the Ten Commandments, you know” because I had said “oh god” in one of her classes. But the point the article is making is that, contrary to popular opinion, it is entirely possible for Jews and Muslims to co-exist happily and peacefully in the same space, and that’s cause for celebration, not sniping.

    Comment by Katy — 2nd February, 2007 @ 10:05 am

  10. I’ve only just realised how similar in rhythm those chants actually are to cheerleader choruses. They’ve lost a certain edge now.

    ‘Ta-li-ban - Ta-li-ban - If they can’t do it NO ONE CAN!!.’

    Comment by Michael P — 2nd February, 2007 @ 10:17 am

  11. Katy, I have a feeling Desi is referring to the flag waving and celebrating the independence of another country (although flag waving even for your own, overt patriotism, is an issue for me, and usually a sign of insecurity).

    That aside, I am all for it. Lets have jews in muslim schools.

    Comment by Refresh — 2nd February, 2007 @ 10:25 am

  12. I’m all for it too, and both ways round. I don’t approve of religious schools or of political schools. I just found it bizarre that Desi immediately saw all of the bad and none of the good.

    Comment by Katy — 2nd February, 2007 @ 10:34 am

  13. i thought Desi wasn’t referring particularly to either the fact of muslim or jewish kids doing stuff together but rather the general issue of adults ( of any race/ethnicity/religion whatever) forcing norms on kids - ya know - the whole institutionalization thing - and social indoctrination in general.

    anyhow - i think one of the nicest things was daniel barenboim and edward said’s musical collaboration.

    Comment by sonia — 2nd February, 2007 @ 10:43 am

  14. just read what refresh said. is flag waving for another country a problem if you’re happy to flag wave for “your own” country? i assumde that it was flag waving + patriotism in general that desi was pointing at -> ah well desi - ball’s in your court :-)

    Comment by sonia — 2nd February, 2007 @ 10:50 am

  15. i guess some of us are cynical about institutions Katy… i think it’s a nice bit of news but i get desi’s point of view as well. as you say though - sometimes it’s good to focus on the good!

    still i must say i didn’t realize that people thought the “interfaith” situation is so dire generally - i know if we go by the media sure - but in real life - there is so much to celebrate.

    Comment by sonia — 2nd February, 2007 @ 10:56 am

  16. sonia,

    the interfaith situation *is* dire. those of us who have worked in it for years don’t remember a time it has been this bad. previously we were thought of as cranks, or just ignored. now, suddenly, there’s this big issue and people are surprised that everyone hates each other because they never did anything about it before. and it’s still not properly funded, either.

    the said/barenboim thing had its upside, but on its downside, it was spun two different ways. to the israelis and the west, basically, it was spun as hey, you know, isn’t it, great, israelis and palestinians getting together and playing some tunes, whereas in the arab press, it always looked like barenboim was basically conceding the whole issue, “yes, we are western” (HAH!) and accepting said’s narrative.

    as for the school in question, i think it’s great that muslims go there - every little helps. we need more faith schools like that, including pupils not from the faith that run the school, as well as explicitly multi-faith schools. desi probably thinks celebrating israeli independence day means building palestinian villages out of papier maché so they can be trodden on. tush; don’t get your knickers in a twist. it always used to be all about falafel, oranges and kibbutzim as far as i know, but if there are muslim pupils then so much the better as it will force them to teach some context and consider the audience.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

    Comment by bananabrain — 2nd February, 2007 @ 11:11 am

  17. BB, well the govt is slowly but surely getting its act together. Mr Versi from Muslim News told me this morning the SS interfaith radio station in Bristol is funded by the home office.

    Comment by Sunny — 2nd February, 2007 @ 11:22 am

  18. i think you could be right, sunny. that’s how i heard about them, on radio 4 yesterday. i am sending them a cd of my band for their playlist and have emailed my buddies in other jewish music bands to do the same. good on them i say.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

    Comment by bananabrain — 2nd February, 2007 @ 11:29 am

  19. bananabrain - I hope everybody enjoys your cd as much as I have done. Katy was playing it the other day, and I found it really evocative.

    Comment by Chairwoman — 2nd February, 2007 @ 11:59 am

  20. Like Desi suggests, there are lots of perspectives to choose from when we think about the school, as there are for almost any social phenomenon, I guess.

    On this site, at the moment, it is generally seen as a heartwarming story of interfaith harmony.

    Elsewhere it is probably seen as an example of faith schooling undermining secular harmony.

    In another context I might see it as a typical example of schooling and indoctrination which is the opposite of a meaningful education.

    In other places it might be seen as an example of multicultural hell where young people are being given a pick and mix identity at odds with any pure tradition, and the pupils will forever be suspected of mixed loyalties.

    But from the perspective of here, now, me: Aaah, innit nice? Pity about the patriotic indoctrination, but that doesn’t make it all bad.

    Comment by Arif — 2nd February, 2007 @ 12:05 pm

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