i love london el cid -! i think its great. i feel right at home here. i think the people who warble on about integration ought to come and look in the inside of london house parties then they’d stop worrying.
Most ‘expats’ in London love being here ..there are so many international students floating around after graduation.

I live in london if that’s what you’re getting at..

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/819499.html

b’shalom

bananabrain

Issues which the State becomes just part of a bigger jigsaw of actors, and one which isn’t usually the easiest to engage with or the most responsive to the concerns being raised. State agencies might be very relevant and effective in many circumstances, we might miss them if they disappeared, but they don’t have much to offer to people who are more conscious about starvation abroad than recycling targets in the UK.

Since we all have limitied time, resource and energy, we can choose to focus on some issues as “citizens” or people who care, or whatever term we should use that is less exclusive. And so while the State wants to consult us on community plans and the local development framework, or the latest piece of proposed legislation, most active citizens would feel that is a distraction from the more urgent issues where the State is more of a hindrance than a help.

Involvement in organisations like Liberty, Greenpeace, Oxfam and Amnesty International can allow us to engage in collective action which is more direct, and pay for people to make the effort of responsing to the State on the issues with more research and skill than we might be caable of as individuals in any case. Whether those joining with or opposing me hold UK passports, something else or none is of no relevance.

“For example, I like the NGN idea, which is why I signed up to it. But if I could suggest one improvement, it would be a sense of collective pride, a new immigrant-driven patriotism.”

heh. if it had that ‘improvement’ as you frame it – i wouldn’t have been up for signing it. ‘pride’ and ‘new patriotism’ are the two things that sound a warning to me. a collective something or other – yes that’s fine – but the patriotism thing – far too many negative connotations, far too much of a ‘we have to be this way type of strong group’ – too much emphasis on ‘conformity’ ‘group’ rather than individuals – all the things that ring my anarcho-bells ding dong. If anything I thought the whole point of NGN was getting away from that.

( different perspectives of course)

don – good points. and i agree with what you’re saying about “I’m not sure how useful the idea of pinning ‘citizenship’ down really is.” actually that’s probably my point really – citizenship is currently pinned down to a very specific bureaucratic thing -i.e. the passport thing and pleading allegiance etc. to the Crown blah blah (if you’re going through the ‘naturalization’ ceremony say) – all of which are pretty specific things. i guess i mean that it would be nice to get away from such specificity – to a more abstract notion of citizenship. not that im suggesting that citizenship can’t also refer to that aspect of as well – but perhaps a plurality..

it’s getting away really from this mentality that sunny’s referred to – “unwritten agreement” if oh if you’re an expat you’re not playing a part etc. in society. that’s again – precisely what is changing – and i thought it would be great if we could recognize the shift. the bottom line is some people are interested in what’s happening around them, expat, citizen, immigrant or whatever, and some people aren’t – even if they are supposed to be playing a part. I think we could make some progress with the whole ‘political apathy’ thing if we realize who’s actually interested and who’s not. Back to the global civil society thing.

An interesting sidenote on all this is that there’s a whole ‘forgotten electorate’( in my opinion) here in the UK. People who don’t possess British citizenship
(in the technical sense) but if legal residents are allowed to vote. all these international students who’re well up for being engaged and political who might be thinking they can’t influence the actual voting procedure.. ! Just think. And there I was as an undergrad listening to false info from our international students advisor about ‘how we couldn’t vote’. Tchah.

The Mail: scientifically proven to guard against your children being stolen by gypsies

The Express: why settle for the lesser evil?

Not to oversimplify again – but often there is a core idea that people agree with – and then different ways of expressing them ( in such a complex area) will lead to highlighting differences of approach/context/how far different folks want to take same idea (which is essentially what i was going on about)

“Speak your mind. I know everyone else will.”

Obviously no one will!

Speak your mind. I know everyone else will.

Given this will keep coming up, no surprise, we might as well get on with it.

I guess our starting point is listing all the groups we hate. (Of course mine would be to state the outcome we want, and then work out what gets in the way).

Be more thankful it didn’t happen. That would’ve really caused some bad shit. Seriously. And it may cause soem shit yet – I’m unconvinced the soldier is under police protection for his own protection, and doubtless leave has been stopped in his unit.

Great article. Sounds as well that the situation developed kind of organically without policy makers behind it. Wouldn’t be surprised if there aren’t many parents who would feel the same way as some of those.