EDL fascists beaten back in Bradford


by Sunny
29th August, 2010 at 9:51 am    

The Hope Not Hate blog has a summary:

It was frustrating because 800-1,000 EDL came into Bradford acted appallingly and largely got away with it. They chanted disgusting anti-Muslim abuse, threw bottles and other missiles whenever they could, repeatedly attacked the police lines and then, when a group did break out, were able to run around the city without being picked up. The police were soft on the EDL and this only encouraged them to get even more rowdy and obnoxious.

The police failed to push back the EDL at the beginning so they were able to goad locals from across the road. Police dogs and horses were deployed in numbers but every single one of them were pointing at local people, something that only antagonised locals.

The day was however at the same time pleasing in that despite the EDL provocation the day appears to have passed off relatively peacefully. Certainly there was no repeat of the riots that rocked Bradford in 2001. From that point of view the day was a success. Despite provocation and considerable anger the locals didn’t rise to the EDL bait and everyone remain calm, or at least as calm as could have been expected in the circumstances.

The Telegraph quotes Assam Ali, a 17-year-old A level student from the town, said: “I just hope it doesn’t kick off. That’s not what Bradford needs because it will just lead to more racism and more police on the streets, like it did after 2001. We don’t want this to turn to chaos.”

EDL predicted 5,000 people at the demo – less than a thousand turned up. Even the Daily Mail pictures make them look like “far-right” thugs.


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  1. sunny hundal

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  2. Kate B

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: EDL fascists beaten back in Bradford http://bit.ly/b4lW5E >> Good. EDL's disgusting.


  3. the credo

    RT @hangbitch: RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: EDL fascists beaten back in Bradford http://bit.ly/b4lW5E >> Good. EDL's disgusting.< Ditto


  4. Sophia R. Matheson

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  5. Kate B

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  8. Casey Vanderpool

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  9. Naadir Jeewa

    Reading: EDL fascists beaten back in Bradford: The Hope Not Hate blog has a summary: It was frustrating because 80… http://bit.ly/cG2wE9




  1. Mike — on 29th August, 2010 at 11:00 am  

    Check out the comments on the Daily Mail Website – any anti EDL or anti racist comments have been voted down, pro EDL comments are voted up.

  2. Kismet Hardy — on 29th August, 2010 at 12:07 pm  

    …let’s call it EDLatory

  3. Kismet Hardy — on 29th August, 2010 at 12:37 pm  

    Why weren’t these people at work? Because they’re on thEDL

  4. Kismet Hardy — on 29th August, 2010 at 12:45 pm  

    All the misguided DM supporters will be sorry one day when they do something really nasty. EDL fallen in love with someone EDL fallen in love, they’ll sing sadly

    They’re a bunch of jokers though. And not very good ones at that. Like Jeremy bEDL and L-EDL and Large

    sad EDL gits with no girlfriends… off with their EDLs

  5. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 29th August, 2010 at 2:17 pm  
  6. Dalbir — on 29th August, 2010 at 2:34 pm  

    Whooo let the yobs out? Woof, woof, woof!!

    Who let the yobs out!

    Engerland! Engerland! Engerland!

    Makes us proud it does. Set standards for the globe we does!

    Rule Britannia and all that!

    GO TEAM ENG- GER – LAND!

  7. England Not Extremism — on 29th August, 2010 at 3:27 pm  

    EDL Supporters – Friends of Racists and Extremists

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOCf4wyz4mQ

  8. halima — on 29th August, 2010 at 3:43 pm  

    Where are all the women in the EDL? Do they keep them at home? Aren’t they allowed out in these marches?

  9. meatpie — on 29th August, 2010 at 3:45 pm  

    Scary bulldogged white men scaring liberal combat trousered limp haired ponces.

  10. david abbot — on 29th August, 2010 at 4:52 pm  

    well done to everyone from EDL who turned up despite the ban, the home secretary should be ashamed of herself. I live in bradford and everyone i spoke to wanted the march to go ahead to highlight the problems of bradford. This shows yet again that a minorty of lefty’s have total control over the centre right majority

  11. Refresh — on 29th August, 2010 at 5:28 pm  

    David Abbot

    Don’t fall for it. EDL went to Bradford to exacerbate the problems, and build on the notorious NF and BNP provocation of 2001.

    The pattern appears to be no different to the one established back in the 70s.

  12. mikey — on 29th August, 2010 at 7:15 pm  

    And you know this how Refresh?

    Show us how you know what the ‘true’ intent was by way of irrefutable evidence…

  13. Alva — on 29th August, 2010 at 7:17 pm  

    Those birds are a right bunch of munters.

    Explains all the EDL frustration.

  14. Kismet Hardy — on 29th August, 2010 at 7:26 pm  

    Alva, it’s a little discussed fact but ‘true’

    Men only really obsessively hate people they don’t know when they don’t get laid by attractive women

  15. incon — on 29th August, 2010 at 7:43 pm  

    Alva: I already beat you to your all too predictable rant before I linked to the images I am afraid:

    “I can just imagine the comments now…”

    Sad and nasty comment, sure, but all too predictable too. It’s how you so-called Anti-Fascists work.

    Anti-Fascists, now there’s a joke!

    Isn’t the reality that it is the indeed the UAF leadership that have been arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit violence at these demos and not the EDL?

    And isn’t it the reality that senior communist, sorry UAF leader Martin Smith has been charged with assaulting a police officer?

    In fact isn’t a fact that it was the UAF that throw a dart into a crowd in attempt to injure or kill someone in a clearly Fascist attempt to attack and silence freshly democratically elected politicians to whom they disagree?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e90kY-HkN4A&feature=player_embedded

    Why yes, I believe it is all fact.

    Anti-Fascists? Make me laugh!

  16. incon — on 29th August, 2010 at 7:44 pm  

    Alva: I already beat you to your all too predictable rant before I linked to the images I am afraid:

    “I can just imagine the comments now…”

    Sad and nasty comment, sure, but all too predictable too. It’s how you so-called Anti-Fascists work.

    Anti-Fascists, now there’s a joke!
    Isn’t the reality that it is the indeed the UAF leadership that have been arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit violence at these demos and not the EDL?

    And isn’t it the reality that senior communist, sorry UAF leader Martin Smith has been charged with assaulting a police officer?

    In fact isn’t a fact that it was the UAF that throw a dart into a crowd in attempt to injure or kill someone in a clearly Fascist attempt to attack and silence freshly democratically elected politicians to whom they disagree?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e90kY-HkN4A&feature=player_embedded

    Why yes, I believe it was.

    Anti-Fascists? Make me laugh!

  17. Kismet Hardy — on 29th August, 2010 at 8:05 pm  

    “Anti-Fascists, now there’s a joke!”

    No it isn’t.

    Which reminds me of another truth about racists.

    About as humorous as sarcoma of the uterus

  18. Refresh — on 29th August, 2010 at 8:12 pm  

    mikey,

    ‘Show us how you know what the ‘true’ intent was by way of irrefutable evidence…’

    On the balance of probability, from what was being chanted, the baiting and the stone throwing should put it beyond reasonable doubt.

    I am clearly not alone to think that, given the nature of the multi-faith service that Bradfordians felt they had to hold today at the very same spot the EDL held sway yesterday. The service had the air of an exorcism.

  19. incon — on 29th August, 2010 at 8:31 pm  

    Kismet Hardy: Well done. I see you have managed to ignore the fact that is the so-called anti-fascist UAF leadership who are going to court for conspiring to commit violence at EDL demonstrations and not the EDL leadership.

    Of course you have, and all of the rest of their violence. Because it is not violence that concerns you per se, it is the wrong kind of violence, isn’t it now?

    Refresh: Allow me to field that one as well as Mikey. You do know that the UAF and Asian locals were throwing missiles too right? You are aware of that fact? That of the 13 arrested for violence, 8 were local?

    You do know that the reports place those committing the violence in the EDL lines at around 5 – 10% of the total number protesting? Meaning that the overwhelming majority were just exercising their legal right to protest?

    Of course you don’t!

  20. Kismet Hardy — on 29th August, 2010 at 8:38 pm  

    Incon, damn you you’ve made me look foolish. Here I am generalising and you’ve gone and proven to be the exception to the rule. Which totally messes up my Truth About Racists no 3

    “Racists have a poor grasp of the English language.”

    You speak English very well. Well done (which leads me onto Truths About Racists no 4: “racists weren’t given enough encouragement by their parents as children.”)

    Ah. I feel all gooey inside now knowing I’ve helped a fellow man.

  21. Kismet Hardy — on 29th August, 2010 at 8:44 pm  

    On a serious note, EDL started the trouble. Nobody said anti-fascists were going to throw flowers in retaliation. That’s not how we won the war

  22. Refresh — on 29th August, 2010 at 9:01 pm  

    Incon,

    Lets not play the numbers game just yet. As I understand it police video numbers are yet to come in.

    What of the chanting? I feel pretty sure that was one of the compelling reasons for the exorcism that took place today.

  23. incon — on 29th August, 2010 at 9:22 pm  

    Kismet Hardy: </strong: How I have now gone to being a ‘racist’ despite not uttering one ‘racist’ statement is the usual mystery in these ‘debates.’

    That tired old line aside, how do you know who throw the first missile? You don’t. And is throwing missiles at anyone acceptable anyway? Given that we know that only a tiny minority of the EDL committed any violence anyway it was just as likely to hit an innocent protester.

    As I said, and you know confirm, violence is not the issue with you as it is not with most of the so-called ‘Anti-Fascists’ it is simply a matter of who is committing the violence that determines whether it is good or bad.

    But see that UAF thug (in a large group of thugs trying to subvert democracy) throwing a dart into a crowd of innocent people (many of were just journalists doing their job) in the video linked to above – who exactly was he retaliating against?

    And what ‘war’ is it that you think you have won?

    Refresh:

    Don’t do what exactly? Use facts and quote the statistics at you? Of course not; they don’t fit your reality do they? All of the arrests are in, pal, its all done and dusted.

    And what are you waffling on about with some ‘exorcism’ – are you actually serious?

  24. incon — on 29th August, 2010 at 9:24 pm  

    Oh dear, a rogue unclosed tag wreaks havoc…

    Kismet Hardy: How I have now gone to being a ‘racist’ despite not uttering one ‘racist’ statement is the usual mystery in these ‘debates.’

    That tired old line aside, how do you know who throw the first missile? You don’t. And is throwing missiles at anyone acceptable anyway? Given that we know that only a tiny minority of the EDL committed any violence anyway it was just as likely to hit an innocent protester.

    As I said, and you know confirm, violence is not the issue with you as it is not with most of the so-called ‘Anti-Fascists’ it is simply a matter of who is committing the violence that determines whether it is good or bad.

    But see that UAF thug (in a large group of thugs trying to subvert democracy) throwing a dart into a crowd of innocent people (many of were just journalists doing their job) in the video linked to above – who exactly was he retaliating against?

    And what ‘war’ is it that you think you have won?

    Refresh:

    Don’t do what exactly? Use facts and quote the statistics at you? Of course not; they don’t fit your reality do they? All of the arrests are in, pal, its all done and dusted.

    And what are you waffling on about with some ‘exorcism’ – are you actually serious?

  25. Refresh — on 29th August, 2010 at 9:41 pm  

    No waffle. Looked like an exorcism to me. Local people reclaiming their city.

    It was on a BBC News bulletin.

  26. incon — on 29th August, 2010 at 10:33 pm  

    An ‘exorcism’ really? Bloody hell. What the hell are you on about – crazy Medieval superstition (a good description of Islam, by the way!)

    And how exactly are they ‘reclaiming their’ city back when it was never taken in the first place and the EDL had been gone for 24 hours anyway?

  27. Refresh — on 29th August, 2010 at 10:37 pm  

    The bit I saw was a distinctly Christian event. If I can find a link to it you might want to see it for yourself.

  28. joe90 — on 29th August, 2010 at 10:59 pm  

    edl bunch of drunk dumb dunces, who complain about the burkha but most of them go moping around covering their faces themselves.

    Whatever they wanted to achieve in bradford it failed miserably.

  29. Cronous — on 29th August, 2010 at 11:07 pm  

    Are these guys pretty violent? I am not talking about having rowdy or provocative demonstrations, but do they assault people and destroy property?

  30. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 30th August, 2010 at 12:17 am  

    Ask this chap – http://jwarren.co.uk/photos/protest/english-defence-league-bradford/edl-bradford-protest_K8K0066.jpg/view

    They’re violent, they’re just not very good at it.

  31. incon — on 30th August, 2010 at 4:32 am  

    Maybe they are not ‘good at the violence’ you seem to want to assign to them because they don’t want it. Maybe the majority are, as they say, just exercising their legitimate democratic right to protest.

    If they were all the football hooligans you try and paint them as, then hell, let’s face it, they could have torn up not just that town but every other one they have been to. The football gangs of this country are very adept at it.

    As we all know.

    They would also not have allowed an Asian Muslim, Abdul Salaam to be in a confined space with them protesting. And he has, not just in Bradford, but pretty much every other EDL protest too.

    Not one EDL protester has harmed him. He is still a stoic supporter of the EDL.

    How does that happen?

    The UAF are not good at violence they commit in the fact that they get caught and their leadership get put on trial for conspiracy to commit violence.

    At one of the recent EDL demos in Bolton, the officer in charge of policing the demo quite clearly stated where the blame for the violence lay, and glowingly praised the EDL stewards for preventing much of the violence:

    Assistant Chief Constable Garry Shewan:

    “”Today in Bolton we have seen some small evidence of this protest in the form of flag waving and vitriolic name calling – but we have also seen groups of people, predominantly associated with the UAF, engaging in violent confrontation.

    “It is clear to me that a large number have attended today with the sole intention of committing disorder and their actions have been wholly unacceptable.

    Turning their anger onto police officers they acted with, at times, extreme violence and their actions led to injuries to police officers, protestors and members of the public.

    “The police are not and should not be the target of such violence and anger and this protest and the actions of some of the protestors is roundly condemned by GMP and by Bolton Council. Were it not for the professionalism and bravery of police officers many others would have been seriously injured.

    I would also like to praise the efforts of the EDL stewards who worked with us in the face of some very ugly confrontations.”

    Source

  32. Cauldron — on 30th August, 2010 at 5:12 am  

    “He is still a stoic supporter of the EDL.”

    Indeed. Given the likely inclinations of some of those surrounding him, I would imagine that a considerable degree of stoicism might be required.

  33. damon — on 30th August, 2010 at 11:52 am  

    I suppose the police are left with little choice given the high profile of this event – but I can’t say I’m happy that this is the way contentious demonstrations are policed these days. It’s the same kind of tactics that were used against the G20 protesters in The City of London last year. Treating everyone who turns up as a potential criminals from the moment they arrive in the city. That means kettling and forcing people onto buses against their will and just holding them.
    Fencing them in and frustrating them, and then being very quick to use the riot police against them.

    A necessary evil? Maybe .. but I’m not convinced.

  34. incon — on 30th August, 2010 at 3:16 pm  

    Cauldron: Funny how this Asian Muslim is able to go to pretty much every EDL demo and stand right in amongst the EDL supporters protesting with them and has emerged every time not only completely unharmed but also just as strong an EDL supported as when he arrived.

    That’s right, an Asian Muslim has been in the middle of pretty much every EDL protest and not one EDL supporter (or anyone else) has laid a finger on him.
    Wonder what would happen if someone with just a union or English flag T shirt were to stand in the middle of a UAF protest?

  35. joe90 — on 30th August, 2010 at 3:58 pm  

    post #36

    ah yes the edl not racist damn i just seen a pig fly!

    it don’t matter how much you post your lie everyone knows your edl are a bunch of nasty low life racists.

  36. incon — on 30th August, 2010 at 4:57 pm  

    joe90 :P roblem is though, none of it is a lie now is it?

    Abdul Salaam, an Asian Muslim was at the EDL Bradford protest just as he has been to pretty much every other EDL protest and has never had a finger laid on him by neither the EDL nor anyone else.

    One of the EDL leaders and principle speakers is an Asian Sikh. The EDL have black and Jewish members.

    The leadership of the UAF is going to trial for conspiracy to commit violence at an EDL protest, not the leadership of the EDL.

    Another senior UAF figure (Martin Smith) is to face trial for assaulting a police officer, not a senior figure in the EDL.

    The UAF were blamed by the Bolton police commander for the violence at that protest whilst the EDL stewards were praised for their help “in the face of some very ugly confrontations” caused by the UAF.

    The UAF use the Fascist tactic of physical force to break up gatherings of democratically elected politicians they oppose and throw at least one dart into a gathered crowd of innocent people; the EDL do not.

    Of the 13 arrested at the Bradford demo, 8 were local.

    The police estimate that only 5-10% of the contingent in the EDL pen at Bradford caused any trouble, meaning that the vast majority were peaceful and legitimate democratic protesters. The EDL claim that these people were not with the EDL anyway.

    These are the facts.

  37. Jai — on 30th August, 2010 at 6:43 pm  

    One of the EDL leaders and principle speakers is an Asian Sikh.

    The ongoing actions of the Asian “Sikh” concerned, Guramit “Singh”, are so utterly in violation of Sikh tenets and the principles of the Khalsa that he has been very publicly and very forcefully condemned by Britain’s most senior & respected Sikh figures, who are themselves closely affiliated with the global Sikh authorities at the Akal Takht, the worldwide seat of Sikh temporal power and part of the Golden Temple complex in Amritsar. The same Akal Takht which is currently formally investigating the BNP’s Rajinder Singh for his near-identical activities, and who is potentially going to be formally excommunicated, resulting in him being declared as a pariah from the world’s entire Sikh population.

    Guramit’s own behaviour is also being monitored, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he shares the same fate. At which point, being publicly stripped of his right to call himself a Sikh and declared as a traitor to the Khalsa for however many centuries Sikh historical records endure will be the least of his problems.

  38. incon — on 30th August, 2010 at 7:07 pm  

    Well of course he is considered “a pariah” – he is not a PC adherent.

    But the point anyway is that an Asian Sikh is one the leaders of the EDL and one of its principle speakers. That is the reality. And he is not been harmed by anyone in the EDL.

    Nor has Abdul Salaam, an Asian Muslim in the EDL. Who is investigating him so he can be awarded “pariah” status for being politically incorrect, eh Jai?

    And there are black EDL supporters as well as Jewish EDL supporters – and all come to EDL protests.

    All the evidence suggests that if the UAF were not show up at the protests, then there would be considerably less violence, if any.

  39. joe90 — on 30th August, 2010 at 7:07 pm  

    post #38

    you try so hard its making me laugh shouting seig heil and going around insulting asians with the P word is not racist is it next your going to tell me hitler was’nt racist either.

    oh you well done you got a sikh asian and muslim asian and thats your blue peter badge that says your not racist i think not.

    try again you moron.

  40. incon — on 30th August, 2010 at 7:23 pm  

    joe90:

    I don’t need to try again. You are in the wrong here.

    And abusive into the bargain too, as all the extreme left are when they can’t shout the truth down and impose their petty little Fascistic will upon people.

    These are the facts, however you may hate it, and hate you must certainly do:

    Abdul Salaam, an Asian Muslim was at the EDL Bradford protest just as he has been to pretty much every other EDL protest and has never had a finger laid on him by neither the EDL nor anyone else.

    One of the EDL leaders and principle speakers is an Asian Sikh. The EDL have black and Jewish members.
    The leadership of the UAF is going to trial for conspiracy to commit violence at an EDL protest, not the leadership of the EDL.

    Another senior UAF figure (Martin Smith) is to face trial for assaulting a police officer, not a senior figure in the EDL.

    The UAF were blamed by the Bolton police commander for the violence at that protest whilst the EDL stewards were praised for their help “in the face of some very ugly confrontations” caused by the UAF.

    The UAF use the Fascist tactic of physical force to break up gatherings of democratically elected politicians they oppose and throw at least one dart into a gathered crowd of innocent people; the EDL do not.

    Of the 13 arrested at the Bradford demo, 8 were locals.

    The police estimate that only 5-10% of the contingent in the EDL pen at Bradford caused any trouble, meaning that the vast majority were peaceful and legitimate democratic protesters. The EDL claim that these people were not with the EDL anyway.

    So do you have any actual points to make here that you can back up, or just more inane abuse?

  41. Jai — on 30th August, 2010 at 7:47 pm  

    Well of course he is considered “a pariah” – he is not a PC adherent.

    Wrong. He is a pariah because he is publicly identifying himself as a Sikh and is being declared as such by his supporters such as yourself, but is completely violating the teachings of the Sikh Gurus, the tenets of Sikhism and the principles of the Khalsa.

    But the point anyway is that an Asian Sikh is one the leaders of the EDL and one of its principle speakers. That is the reality.

    An Asian “Sikh” who has been formally condemned by Britain’s most senior Sikh figures directly associated by the Akal Takht and who is being actively monitored by the world’s most senior Sikh authorities. And someone who may well be formally excommunicated for his actions.

    That is the reality.

    Nor has Abdul Salaam, an Asian Muslim in the EDL. Who is investigating him so he can be awarded “pariah” status for being politically incorrect, eh Jai?

    Irrelevant to the Khalsa and the Akal Takht. The latter has formal political authority in Sikh matters. And as someone who is very publicly presenting himself as a “Sikh”, as a result Guramit “Singh” falls under the formal jurisdiction of the Akal Takht.

    Of course, if Guramit relinquishes his claim to be a Sikh, then the matter is moot. But as long as he continues his activities, calls himself a “Sikh”, and is held up as such by his supporters, his behaviour will be subject to scrutiny and condemnation by the central authorities at the global seat of Sikh political power, and he will consequently be subject to the associated sanctions.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with “political correctness”, and absolutely everything to do with the principles of the Khalsa and of Sikhism itself. Principles which were established in perpetuity during far more seismic periods of history, by Sikhs who were far greater than your sycophantic poodle Guramit “Singh”, and long, long before the concept of “political correctness” ever existed.

    You’re in way over your head. And I’m afraid Guramit “Singh” himself is already in very, very deep water indeed.

    That is the reality.

  42. Kismet Hardy — on 30th August, 2010 at 7:58 pm  

    So what if one sikh joins EDL? Does it say anywhere that a Sikh can’t be a stupid eager-to-please cretin? Just because a stupid eager-to-please Justin Beiber fan joins a Wu Tang Clan fan site doesn’t suddenly mean all Wu Tang Clans fans think godfearing squeaky clean pre-pubescent blonde virgins are their kinda guy. What a redundant argument

  43. incon — on 30th August, 2010 at 8:09 pm  

    “…but is completely violating the teachings of the Sikh Gurus, the tenets of Sikhism and the principles of the Khalsa.”

    By protesting against Muslim extremism and exercising his democratic right to protest? Which tenet covers that, I wonder? Can you tell us?

    And you’d think this central committee might have enough on their hands with Sikhs that commit actual crimes as opposed to people who merely commit thought crimes and exercise their democratic right to protest, now wouldn’t you?

    You know, people and organisations that have killed countless people in the Sikh name such as Babbar Khalsa, BTF, ISYF, KCF, KLF, KZF etc

    “…as such by his supporters such as yourself…”

    A little presumptive perhaps? Unless of course you can show where I have expressed support for anyone or anything here.

    “…who is being actively monitored…”

    Well better monitored then those groups above, one hopes! His thought crimes must really be a threat compared to mass murder.

    “…And someone who may well be formally excommunicated for his actions That is the reality…”

    But someone who hasn’t been as yet “formally excommunicated for his actions” and remains, as I said, an Asian Sikh and a leader of the EDL.

    And that is the reality.

    “…You’re in way over your head. And I’m afraid Guramit “Singh” himself is already in very, very deep water indeed…”

    Not at all. Perhaps you can list where his thought crimes and exercising his democratic right to protest go against the Guru Granth Sahib?

    And the main point is not his religion but his race in any case. An Asian (Sikh) is a leader of the EDL and is one of its principle speakers.

    And that is the reality.

    But lets not forget the EDL Asian Muslim Abdul Salaam: Who is he being investigated and “closely monitored” by and when he be “excommunicated” and given “pariah” status for exercising his democratic right to protest?

  44. incon — on 30th August, 2010 at 8:10 pm  

    Jai:

    “…but is completely violating the teachings of the Sikh Gurus, the tenets of Sikhism and the principles of the Khalsa.”

    By protesting against Muslim extremism? Which tenet covers that, I wonder?

    And you think this central committee might have enough on their hands with Sikhs that commit actual crimes as opposed to people who merely commit thought crimes and exercise their democratic right to protest, now wouldn’t you?

    You know, people and organisations that have killed countless people in the Sikh name such as Babbar Khalsa, BTF, ISYF, KCF, KLF, KZF etc

    “…as such by his supporters such as yourself…”

    A little presumptive perhaps? Unless of course you can show where I have expressed support for anyone or anything here.

    “…who is being actively monitored…”

    Well better monitored then those groups above, one hopes! His thought crimes must really be a threat compared to mass murder.

    “…And someone who may well be formally excommunicated for his actions That is the reality…”

    But someone who hasn’t been as yet “formally excommunicated for his actions” and remains, as I said, an Asian Sikh and a leader of the EDL.
    And that is the reality.

    “…You’re in way over your head. And I’m afraid Guramit “Singh” himself is already in very, very deep water indeed…”

    Not at all. Perhaps you can list where his thought crimes and exercising his democratic right to protest go against the Guru Granth Sahib?

    And the main point is not his religion but his race in any case. An Asian (Sikh) is a leader of the EDL and is one of its principle speakers.

    And that is the reality.

    But lets not forget the EDL Asian Muslim Abdul Salaam: Who is he being investigated and “closely monitored” by and when he be “excommunicated” and given “pariah” status for exercising his democratic right to protest?

  45. Incom — on 30th August, 2010 at 8:14 pm  

    Well, Jai I say:

    “…but is completely violating the teachings of the Sikh Gurus, the tenets of Sikhism and the principles of the Khalsa.”

    By protesting against Muslim extremism? Which tenet covers that, I wonder?

    And you think this central committee might have enough on their hands with Sikhs that commit actual crimes as opposed to people who merely commit thought crimes and exercise their democratic right to protest, now wouldn’t you?

    You know, people and organisations that have killed countless people in the Sikh name such as Babbar Khalsa, BTF, ISYF, KCF, KLF, KZF etc

    “…as such by his supporters such as yourself…”

    A little presumptive perhaps? Unless of course you can show where I have expressed support for anyone or anything here.

    “…who is being actively monitored…”

    Well better monitored then those groups above, one hopes! His thought crimes must really be a threat compared to mass murder.

    “…And someone who may well be formally excommunicated for his actions That is the reality…”

    But someone who hasn’t been as yet “formally excommunicated for his actions” and remains, as I said, an Asian Sikh and a leader of the EDL.
    And that is the reality.

    “…You’re in way over your head. And I’m afraid Guramit “Singh” himself is already in very, very deep water indeed…”

    Not at all. Perhaps you can list where his thought crimes and exercising his democratic right to protest go against the Guru Granth Sahib?

    And the main point is not his religion but his race in any case. An Asian (Sikh) is a leader of the EDL and is one of its principle speakers.

    And that is the reality.

    But lets not forget the EDL Asian Muslim Abdul Salaam: Who is he being investigated and “closely monitored” by and when he be “excommunicated” and given “pariah” status for exercising his democratic right to protest?

  46. earwicga — on 30th August, 2010 at 8:19 pm  

    By protesting against Muslim extremism?

    This isn’t what the EDL/WDL/Anyotherwankergroup do though.

  47. Marvinder Singh — on 30th August, 2010 at 8:23 pm  

    Where do I sign up for membership in the EDL?

  48. Kismet Hardy — on 30th August, 2010 at 9:00 pm  

    Sorry Marv, if you can sign your name, you’re probably a bit too overqualified to be an EDL member…

  49. Incom — on 30th August, 2010 at 9:00 pm  

    @ earwicga

    “This isn’t what the EDL/WDL/Anyotherwankergroup do though.”

    Why? Because you say so?

    The violence at the Bolton protest was laid firmly at the door of the UAF by the officer in charge of policing the demo and he gave high praise to the EDL stewards – so it would seem that the EDL were legitimately protesting whilst the UAF were there purely for trouble.

    The fact that the UAF leadership is facing court for conspiring to commit violence at an EDL protest further illustrates that point.

  50. Kismet Hardy — on 30th August, 2010 at 9:20 pm  

    Incom dude. You’ve said the same thing 50 times. UAF started the trouble. You have one Muslim and one sikh in your gang. EDF are peaceful. We get it.

    Only no one agrees with you

  51. Jai — on 30th August, 2010 at 9:34 pm  

    By protesting against Muslim extremism?

    Ah, but that’s not quite what Guramit “Singh” has been doing, is it ? He knows that, the rest of the Sikh population and the Khalsa itself knows that, and — unfortunately for Guramit — the Akal Takht is now aware of that too.

    Again, unfortunately for Guramit, there is now ample video footage confirming his activities and the true nature of his attitudes, not to mention the written evidence where Guramit has also been a little too open about expressing his real views.

    Perhaps you can list where his thought crimes and exercising his democratic right to protest go against the Guru Granth Sahib?

    And the main point is not his religion but his race in any case. An Asian (Sikh) is a leader of the EDL and is one of its principle speakers.

    And that is the reality.

    Nice rambling attempt at deflection throughout #45 & #46, but the bottom line is that Guramit “Singh” himself knows — or should know — exactly which tenets of Sikhism, which principles of the Khalsa, and which precedents & teachings of the Sikh Gurus he is continually violating in this matter. So do the most senior Sikh figures in Britain. And consequently, the Akal Takht knows too.

    Guramit should also be aware of the contemporary and historical precedents for the penalties imposed by the most senior Sikh authorities on “Sikhs” who have behaved in exactly the way he has been behaving.

    And if his “race” is the main point, rather than his religion, then perhaps it would be a very good idea indeed for both Guramit “Singh” and his defenders such as yourself to desist from referring to his supposed religious affiliation. And for Guramit “Singh” to disavow being a Sikh full-stop, if he does not want to be subject to the formal — and potentially very severe — sanctions which the Akal Takht are formally authorised to implement, as per the authority granted to the Khalsa by the founders of the Sikh religion itself.

    In the meantime, as a self-declared “Sikh” who is also persistently being identified as such by his defenders such as yourself and by the EDL as a whole, Guramit’s actions now fall under the jurisdiction of the global Sikh authorities at the Akal Takht in Amritsar. Irrespective of how much you may presume to question the Akal Takht’s authority in this matter, irrespective of what criteria you may presume to dictate to the Akal Takht in relation to whom they should investigate and penalise, and irrespective of how much you may attempt to obfuscate the matter on internet websites.

    And that is the reality.

  52. Incom — on 30th August, 2010 at 9:36 pm  

    Kismet Hardy:

    Well actually no, it’s been quite different each time except once, when there was little point, given the apparent density of the respondent.

    And when you say “no one agrees” with me, of course that is another patent falsehood as it actually stands that around 3 people on a very left leaning site don’t agree with me.
    And in all reality its not me they have to agree with, it’s the facts.

    Facts are facts my friend. Yes, yes, I know that the loony left inhabit an odd parallel universe when anything can be made to mean something else and everyone who treads even slightly off the PC line is a ‘ist’ and all the ‘isms’ – but at some point you will all have to come back to reality.

    And soon, I rather suspect.

  53. Incom — on 30th August, 2010 at 9:55 pm  

    “desist from referring to his supposed religious affiliation”

    Why? Because you say so?

    And you now demean the mans faith purely because his politics do not coincide with yours? But let me guess, you are all about ‘tolerance’ right? What a joke.

    “Nice rambling attempt at deflection throughout #45 & #46 … Guramit “Singh” himself knows… the most senior Sikh figures in Britain… the Akal Takht knows”

    In other words you haven’t got the slightest clue of what tenets he has broken or what part of the Guru Granth Sahib he has contravened and so consequently you don’t really have the first clue of what you are talking about at all!

    And you try to deflect away from that with verbosity about he knows, they know, everyone knows.

    Everyone but you, it would seem.

    You are a funny guy, Jai.

    “…and potentially very severe…”

    Is that some kind of threat of something other then “excommunication”?

    “defenders such as yourself and by the EDL as a whole”

    Again presumptuous.

    “Guramit’s actions now fall under the jurisdiction of the global Sikh authorities at the Akal Takht in Amritsar.”

    Is it really? Fascinating.

    And what have this group done to censure people and organisations that have killed countless people in the Sikh name such as Babbar Khalsa, BTF, ISYF, KCF, KLF, KZF etc rather then just persecute a man who has committed no crime other then a thought crime and exercised his democratic right to protest?

    And on what basis do they proceed against Guramit Singh? What laws has he broken? What charges does he face? What convictions does he have?

    “Irrespective of how much you may presume to question the Akal Takht’s authority in this matter”

    Well actually I hadn’t. But thanks, now I will.

    On what authority do they make these judgements? If it is on the direct authority of God then they must be able to prove the existence of God.

    If not, then they are just men like any other and false prophets and blasphemers presuming they speak for God.

    And that is the reality.

  54. Jai — on 30th August, 2010 at 9:57 pm  

    Yet more obfuscation, distortion and strawman arguments in #54, I see. Not to mention demands for answers involving a series of areas which his presumed targets aren’t actually under any obligation whatsoever justify to him. Amusing, but amateurish to say the least.

    Desperate attempts to “defend” the “Sikh” Guramit “Singh”. Very desperate indeed.

    On what authority do they make these judgements?

    The authority which was formally bequeathed to the Khalsa in perpetuity by Guru Gobind Singh.

    Facts are facts my friend. Yes, yes, I know that the loony left inhabit an odd parallel universe when anything can be made to mean something else and everyone who treads even slightly off the PC line is a ‘ist’ and all the ‘isms’ – but at some point you will all have to come back to reality.

    “Psychological projection” at its finest.

    You’re far, far out of your league. And so is the EDL.

    And that is the reality.

  55. Don — on 30th August, 2010 at 10:14 pm  

    Incom,

    You seem to be inordinately proud that the EDL has not so far lynched the handfull of disturbed ‘ethnic’ suckers it has on board. Well done.

  56. douglas clark — on 30th August, 2010 at 10:33 pm  

    Och!

    You god fearing folk are so fucking weak.

    Produce me a God and I’ll stick a gun in his fucking face.

    Wankers, the lot of you!

  57. Dalbir — on 30th August, 2010 at 10:41 pm  

    Screw him Jai.

    That Guramit fellow will simply go down as another tuttoo, low class gorayaan da chumcha. Like going around half tanked up in city centres shouting E – E – EDL! is doing anything to stop any Islamic fundamentalists doing their thing in any case.

    EDL complain about the Islamification of the UK but think it is okay for the ‘UK’ to nose around abroad and foist democracy on people’s heads.

    And this fool above is trying to censure Sikhs for the militancy 1980s, something he/she has no clue about, whilst trying to recruit from amongst Sikhs at the same time. Let’s see how far they get with that.

  58. douglas clark — on 30th August, 2010 at 10:44 pm  

    Seems to me that Christians and Jews and Muslims have a single thing in common. A masochistic belief in the power of their Gods.

    Seems to me that we should kill their Gods, for their sake.

    For, whist they might be quite nice people and all of that, they believe in sadistic Gods, several of whom hate women, several of whom are exclusive and several of whom seem to have replaced judgement in the brains of human beings in favour of their own idiocyncratic shite.

    Fuck that for a lark!

    We are better than the Gods you tit’s serve!

    In fact, you hold us back.

  59. earwicga — on 30th August, 2010 at 10:51 pm  

    Lol Douglas. I think you are referring to the interpretation and practice of religion by men rather than to the religion themselves.

  60. Jai — on 30th August, 2010 at 10:53 pm  

    In other words you haven’t got the slightest clue of what tenets he has broken or what part of the Guru Granth Sahib he has contravened and so consequently you don’t really have the first clue of what you are talking about at all!

    And you try to deflect away from that with verbosity about he knows, they know, everyone knows.

    Everyone but you, it would seem.

    Oh, I’m fully aware of what I’m talking about. I’m a Sikh myself. As is Dalbir, re: #58.

    I am not, however, under any obligation to “explain” to you the finer points of Sikhism, its associated humanitarian ideals, the basis for the temporal authority of the Akal Takht, or the specific rationale for the jurisdiction granted to the Akal Takht and to the Khalsa as a whole by Guru Gobind Singh. In a nutshell, it’s got nothing to do with you.

    However, in this particular instance, these matters do directly impact Guramit Singh, as a self-declared “Sikh”, and as such Guramit himself should already be fully aware of them. If Guramit is not aware of these areas, then he is grossly misinformed at best and historically & theologically illiterate at worst, and he clearly has some research to do.

    Alternatively, he could of course relinquish his claims to be a Sikh, coupled with the EDL and their supporters desisting from referring to him as such. This would release him from being subject to the authority of the Akal Takht, although it would not of course mean that the Khalsa itself would desist from continuing to forcefully opposed the EDL. Especially as Britain’s most senior, respected and influential Sikh religious figures have already explicitly condemned the EDL and their actions.

    And you try to deflect away from that with verbosity

    Yet more psychological projection. Entertaining, but all too predictable.

  61. douglas clark — on 30th August, 2010 at 10:54 pm  

    So, who’s with me in getting a Kalashnikov or two and sending all of those tits that we are expected to believe in back to Hell in a Handcart?

    There are no Gods.

    And if there were, we should indeed, ought to kill them.

    ’cause we are better than that….

    And fuck karma too….

  62. Dalbir — on 30th August, 2010 at 10:56 pm  

    @62

    Gasp!!

    You’ll get bad karma for saying shite like that!

    lol

    Dougie, you’ve turned into a militant Richard Dawkins type whilst I was away…

  63. Kismet Hardy — on 30th August, 2010 at 11:00 pm  

    Douglas, mate. Who knew? You’ve been in the shadows of diplomacy all this time. I salute you in your infinite wrath. Cry havoc and let slip you beautiful man

  64. douglas clark — on 30th August, 2010 at 11:06 pm  

    Dalbir,

    Perhaps.

    I really don’t care for the idea of karma. I think it is shite and something that sensiible folk would see as such.

    I am not a militant Richard Dawkins type person.

    I am me, and I have being saying what I have to say, almost since this web site was born.

    I am an atheist, but usually, I am not a ‘militant’ atheist. But, cut me, and I will bleed. And I will argue my case…

    You take it along from there..

  65. Don — on 30th August, 2010 at 11:35 pm  

    tuttoo, low class gorayaan da chumcha.

    I have no idea what that means, but I’m guessing it’s a nasty parochial jibe.

  66. joe90 — on 30th August, 2010 at 11:50 pm  

    post #42

    http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/The-BNP-past-of-EDL-leader

    the edl not racist you claim? nice joke the leader of the edl was bnp member and he loved it so much he joined with bnp family membership.

    As for the sikh member of edl which you have talked about only a thousand times

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-utPsmKCxE

    you sure he not racist pull the other one, but as del boy would say “you plonker”

  67. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 31st August, 2010 at 12:44 am  

    Maybe they are not ‘good at the violence’ you seem to want to assign to them because they don’t want it. Maybe the majority are, as they say, just exercising their legitimate democratic right to protest.

    Sure, here you are exercising their democratic right to piss against Westminster Abbey – http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XLxL5xIl-m8/S5W6RjWcS8I/AAAAAAAAC-o/8EWUdBxorUM/s1600-h/edlpissonwestminsterabbey.jpg

    Perhaps you can spot yourself? Or are you strictly keyboard army.

    Here they are exercising their democratic right to stab people – http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/38658/stabbing-outside-middleton-pub

    Detective Constable Wayne Hagan -
    “I would appeal to anyone who has information to come forward. The pub would have been quite busy at that time so there maybe a lot of potential witnesses who could be key to our investigation. I would also stress that there is no racial element to this attack whatsoever, and appears to be a totally unprovoked attack by these men who, fuelled by alcohol, were determined to cause trouble.”

    Here you are in Dudley being peaceful – http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XLxL5xIl-m8/S7gCRZmfdDI/AAAAAAAADDI/AGoFA7hlxJc/s1600/AF052_EDL_UAF_450W.JPG.gallery.jpg

    Here’s your lot exercising your democratic right to assault police officers – http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/courts/EDL-member-seen-kicking-officer/article-2229027-detail/article.html

    I can go on – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJWY59KxsYk

    and on – http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XLxL5xIl-m8/THqr2q2gE2I/AAAAAAAADSA/0PSeEuf46jk/s1600/article-1306969-0af31e50000005dc-505_634x569.jpg

    and on – http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/Father-jailed-violent-EDL-protest/article-2287989-detail/article.html

    An English Defence League demonstrator who was at the forefront of a group which broke police lines has been jailed for 16 months. Mark Doel became involved in violence at the demonstration in Hanley city centre on Saturday, January 23.

    And on, all day long, you know it, I know it.

    As for your question “would filth be allowed to move freely through a crowd of UAF without being attacked” here’s your answer – http://bristolred.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/edl-thugs-infiltrate-demo/

    The real downside to this demo was that a group of around ten EDL thugs were able to mingle with the crowd, threatening and abusing demonstrators and openly attempting to start a fight. They were escorted by police officers, who made no attempt to arrest any of them, but eventually walked them to a bar right in the middle of the demo, from which position they were able to continue shouting obscenities and provocations at the protesters with impunity. They stayed until they finished their drinks and were ready to leave. Police officers were seen laughing and joking with them throughout these events.

  68. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:08 pm  

    @ Jai

    Lots of words to confirm you haven’t got the faintest idea of what tenets he is supposed to have broken or which parts Guru Granth Sahib he has contravened, in short, as I said, you don’t have a clue about what you are talking about.

    If the Guru Granth Sahib has a section on what political outlook people are supposed to have and how wrong it is for people to exercise their legal democratic right to protest it really is way ahead of its time.

    But I suspect it is just evidence less superstitious mumbo-jumbo like the rest of them.

    But we do have a very important principle here in this country: Innocent until proven guilty.

    Guramit Singh has been censured by no one other you.

    And that is the reality.

    @ joe90

    Not a scrap of evidence in that link to a communist site run by a convicted criminal.

    Try again.

  69. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:10 pm  

    @ DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells

    Right. So you want everyone to accept that not all Muslims are fundamentalists but you also want everyone to accept that the whole of the EDL is racist?

    There is no collectivism for one, but there is for the other. One rule for one, one rule for another.

    Anway.

    Your first link is of a few men relieving themselves against a wall. What a scoop.

    Your second link is of three drunken men.

    Your third link shows no violence at all and is actually named EDL_UAF so which ones were these?

    Your fourth link shows exactly what I said: A tiny fraction of around 5-10% of the EDL contingent causing trouble and the EDL stewards trying to stop them, even putting themselves in front of the police and physically confronting them. The EDL say that these people were C18 and not EDL.

    And the UAF threw missiles too, so let’s not pretend they didn’t.

    http://playpolitical.typepad.com/other_uk_parties/2010/08/missiles-thrown-at-bradford-demo.html

    Your fifth link shows one man prosecuted out of hundreds of protesters.

    And your sixth link from a biased source presents no proof whatsoever.

  70. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:13 pm  

    So let’s have a look here at some actual evidence of the real UAF and the real story:

    “More than 30 UAF protesters and three from the EDL have been arrested so far, police said. Two have also suffered minor injuries. A UAF organiser has also been arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit violent disorder.”

    http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/districtnews/districtatog/5074006.Thousands_face_off_in_rally/

    “Anti-fascist protesters have been blamed by police for provoking the violence which broke out as a controversial organisation campaigning against the spread of Islam attempted to hold a rally.

    Several people were hurt, including at least two police officers, and 74 people were arrested as the group Unite Against Fascism (UAF) protested on Saturday against the English Defence League (EDL) rally in Bolton, Lancashire. Assistant Chief Constable Garry Shewan, from Greater Manchester Police (GMP), accused UAF supporters of deliberately inciting violence and attacking officers who were trying to keep the two sides apart.

    “We have seen groups of people, predominantly associated with the UAF, engaging in violent confrontation,” he said. “It is clear to me that a large number have attended with the sole intention of committing disorder and their actions have been wholly unacceptable. They acted with, at times, extreme violence and their actions led to injuries to police officers, protesters and members of the public….

    Of the 74 people arrested during the demonstrations, at least 55 were thought to be from the anti-fascist group, with nine being of EDL supporters.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-blame-antifascists-for-violence-1925038.html

  71. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:14 pm  

    “Officers said UAF protesters were responsible for most of the trouble – and the organisation’s joint secretary, Weyman Bennett, was arrested and charged with conspiracy to organise violent disorder.

    Martin Smith, who runs the Love Music Hate Racism campaign, was also arrested…”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259409/Police-attack-right-wing-group-anti-fascists-clash-violent-street-protests.html

    And here is senior UAF figure Martin Smith in trouble with because of violence once again:

    “UAF national officer Martin Smith faces a serious charge following the demo against British National Party leader Nick Griffin’s appearance on the BBC’s Question Time.

    Martin, a national officer of UAF and national coordinator of our sister campaign Love Music Hate Racism, was arrested on the protest and has been charged with assaulting a police officer”

    http://uaf.org.uk/2010/08/model-motion-support-uafs-martin-smith-in-court/

    And here is a dart being thrown indiscriminately into a crowd of innocent people by a UAF:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e90kY-HkN4A&feature=player_embedded

    And here is a group of Muslims working themselves up into a frenzy at the Harrow protest and chanting ‘We are not scared of Kafir’ and ‘Kafir are cattle’ as well as chanting ‘allah akbar’

    And I could go on and on, all day long, you know it, I know it…

  72. douglas clark — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:16 pm  

    Incom,

    Perhaps you would be better addressing ‘Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells’ comments @ 66?

    Apologists for the EDL really have to do a lot better than your lame attempts…

    There is really no excuse for your xenophobia.

  73. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:16 pm  
  74. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:17 pm  

    @ Douglas Clark

    And perhaps you’d better off sticking to the facts and maybe contributing something to this debate.

    There is no excuse for UAF violence and their apologists.

  75. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:18 pm  

    @ Douglas Clark

    And each one has been addressed in any case.

    Good God.

  76. douglas clark — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:22 pm  

    Oh! I see you have. Not an answer though, just a set of counter allegations. You really are a football fan, aren’t you?

  77. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:24 pm  

    @ Douglas Clark

    Good God.

    Each one has been addressed man, each one. Every single one has been addressed. I have addressed each one.

    Clear now?

  78. douglas clark — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:27 pm  

    Well incom @ 73,

    I know exactly which team I’d be supporting, and it ain’t yours….

  79. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:36 pm  

    @ Douglas Clark

    Good God.

    What a waste of bandwidth you are. Do you actually have anything of substance to contribute to this debate or just endless idiotic inane playground nonsense?

    Nothing in the pieces DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells linked to amounted to anything other then what has already been said, and lots of hot air. It certainly didn’t prove the EDL are either racist or predominantly violent.

    The majority of the EDL protest peacefully and their stewards take their jobs seriously and try to prevent any rogue trouble to their own physical risk and they have been praised by the police for it before.

    Whereas the UAF were behind the very serious violence at one EDL protest and “acted with, at times, extreme violence and their actions led to injuries to police officers, protesters and members of the public” and as a result 55 UAF were arrested for violence along with the UAF leader and a senior UAF figure (who is facing another charge for violence in another incident) and it is the UAF who use physical force and dart throwing to break a gathering of elected politicians that they happen not like.

    Purely Fascist tactics.

    That’s the team you want to be on, that’s up to you. Side with violent fascists. Feel free.

    Just dont pretend to be morally superior.

  80. Kismet Hardy — on 31st August, 2010 at 8:56 pm  

    Incom, it’s really quite simple.

    When Asian, black, gay, midget, or anyone else you hate gets up to no good, like you know, start a fight or really hurt someone’s feelings, we condemn them

    But you refuse to budge from the position that EDL are special little snowflakes who are getting trampled on by left-footed brown sludge

    Just say: yeah, I support what the EDL stands for, but they don’t half attract a right bunch of cunts

  81. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 9:10 pm  

    @ Kismet Hardy

    That’s not true at all. I have quite clearly said that there has been trouble at EDL protests from the EDL contingent; what I am saying is that it is a tiny minority and that fact is borne out by the police reports, the causality and arrest rates as well as the media we can see.

    And of that tiny minority, the EDL stewards work hard to stop them causing trouble, as you can see in Bradford in the video report DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells was kind enough to link; they took personal physical risk to stand in front of the police lines in attempt to create a buffer and physically confronted those causing trouble – who the EDL say were not of them, but of C18.

    The police praised the EDL stewards at the Bolton demo, the officer in charge stating “I would also like to praise the efforts of the EDL stewards who worked with us in the face of some very ugly confrontations” With the ugly confrontations coming from the UAF who didn’t care who they hurt.

    The vast majority of the EDL protest peacefully and legally and that is their right to do so.

    The evidence shows the opposite is usual true with the UAF and that the tactics they are use are distinctly violent and distinctly fascist.

    You may not agree with the EDL protests and that is fine, but you cannot lie about the whole of the EDL being racist / fascist / criminal as a way of disagreeing with the EDL protests.

    It simply isn’t true.

  82. Kismet Hardy — on 31st August, 2010 at 9:15 pm  

    Again, I have no desire to change your mind, you can believe whatever makes you feel happier, but all those photos and video evidence of people under the EDL banner chanting racist stuff and throwing Hitler salutes, what is that if it’s not true? A figment of my blinkered leftie imagination?

  83. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 9:36 pm  

    @ Kismet Hardy

    If you want to cite it as evidence then present it; it’s not good saying “all those photos and videos” – that is not evidence, that is hearsay.

    But just how many people were in those pictures / videos you haven’t produced anyway?

    And how many people have attended EDL protests?

    How do you even know they are EDL supporters and not the C18 who turn up to cause trouble and either get thrown out by EDL stewards or get confronted by EDL stewards, at their own physical risk, if they get into the protest area?

  84. Kismet Hardy — on 31st August, 2010 at 9:42 pm  

    Hearsay? I didn’t know I could see through my ears.

    It’s like this mate. If I start a facebook page called Equal Heights For Midgets, with the mission statement: short people shouldn’t be looked down on, I’m not a bad guy and I want to encourage other not bad guys to join. But I won’t have a tit to spin on when the forum is overrun by porn spam and cruel midget jokes. And it’ll be my fault

    Moral of the story: If you build a platform that lets hateful people and knobheads jump on it, hateful people and knobheads will jump on it (except midgets who’ll need a stepladder or a trampoline perhaps)

    EDL hates Muslims. the middle word there is hate. And you’re preaching it. Period.

  85. douglas clark — on 31st August, 2010 at 9:44 pm  

    What I meant to say Incom, and it is up to Sunny Hundal whether I am wasting his bandwidth or not, is that, whilst I may disagree with what some people say on here, I have never seen it as racist. Either on their part or mine. For I have enjoyed discussing stuff with people that are of a different background to mine. I have enjoyed the occasional fracas too. For the author of this piece is a pretty broadminded chap and encourages debate.

    Most of the regulars do not wear their religion or their race on their sleeves as some sort of token of their righteousness. Sure, they’ll refer to it, but they won’t make a huge deal out of it. People that are new around here may make that mistake about this site, but they are usually disabused of that notion pretty quickly.

    So, I find I have more in common with the likes of Kismet Hardy than I do with you. And come to think of it, I have no idea what colour or religion he is.

    He might be the only other white, male, over sixty, Scottish Nationalist supporting atheist on this site, or perhaps not!

  86. Kismet Hardy — on 31st August, 2010 at 9:47 pm  

    Dougie, I’m just your average muslim bangladeshi raised to fear black people and hate jews who suddenly woke up one day and thought: fuck that

  87. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 10:04 pm  

    @ Douglas Clark

    More inane playground nonsense – another bizarre rant really – and no contribution. Are you taking something? I genuinely mean that. You come across as either high or pissed.

    And you don’t even know what bandwidth is, now do you? Clearly not and it’s tragic.

    It’s not Sunny’s bandwidth at all; it is his server hard drive space you are wasting (or mostly likely his hosts). The bandwidth pertains to the medium of transport. And you are most certainly a waste of that as well.

    Clearly you just post comments for no other reason then to get some attention because its certainly not for debate.

    And you don’t have a clue about what distraction you are waffling on about anyway.
    Good God.

  88. Incom — on 31st August, 2010 at 10:07 pm  

    @ Kismet Hardy

    If reams of this evidence exists then why are you having difficulty posting just one piece?

    Is it because it will only show a handful of people when you want to tar the whole of the EDL?

    As I said to DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells you want everyone to accept that not all Muslims are fundamentalists but you also want everyone to accept that the whole of the EDL is racist?

    There is no collectivism for one, but there is for the other. One rule for one, one rule for another.

    What about all those Muslims screaming for the blood of the infidel? What about all of those Muslims screaming disgusting abuse at British soldiers on British streets? What about all of those home-grown Muslims joining the Taliban and supporting the Taliban by supplying electronic components so they can make IED’s? What about all of them Muslims cutting off peoples heads and posting it online…

    One rule for one is it?

    I am not preaching anything at all and as such you will not be able to quote any such preaching.

    I am pointing out facts that the vast majority of the EDL are peaceful legitimate protesters whereas the evidence suggests the opposite about the UAF; you are presenting nothing other then falsehoods and polarized opinion because you do not agree with the EDL protests.

    Well brother, this democracy. You don’t have to like it. But you don’t have to lie about it neither because you don’t like it.

  89. douglas clark — on 31st August, 2010 at 10:07 pm  

    Kismet Hardy,

    So, we are not two peas in a pod then? And, yet, we seem to agree on the main things. How annoying that must be to those that would divide us.

    Some folk would find us a bit tretcherous.

    The definition of which is here:

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tretcherous

  90. douglas clark — on 31st August, 2010 at 10:14 pm  

    Incom,

    What about all those Muslims screaming for the blood of the infidel? What about all of those Muslims screaming disgusting abuse at British soldiers on British streets? What about all of those home-grown Muslims joining the Taliban and supporting the Taliban by supplying electronic components so they can make IED’s? What about all of them Muslims cutting off peoples heads and posting it online…

    You what?

    Is your head still firmly attached to your shoulders? Were it the case that all muslims were the fundamentalists that you claim them to be, then we’d be living in the middle of World War 3. We are not, last time I looked.

    Away back to ‘Gates of Vienna’ you muppet.

  91. Kismet Hardy — on 31st August, 2010 at 10:21 pm  

    “you want everyone to accept that not all Muslims are fundamentalists but you also want everyone to accept that the whole of the EDL is racist?”

    Only Muslims isn’t a tin pot organisation cobbled up the other day with one agenda and one agenda alone…

  92. douglas clark — on 31st August, 2010 at 10:33 pm  

    Incom,

    More inane playground nonsense – another bizarre rant really – and no contribution. Are you taking something? I genuinely mean that. You come across as either high or pissed.

    And you don’t even know what bandwidth is, now do you? Clearly not and it’s tragic.

    It’s not Sunny’s bandwidth at all; it is his server hard drive space you are wasting (or mostly likely his hosts). The bandwidth pertains to the medium of transport. And you are most certainly a waste of that as well.

    Clearly you just post comments for no other reason then to get some attention because its certainly not for debate.

    And you don’t have a clue about what distraction you are waffling on about anyway.
    Good God.

    It is really not down to you to criticise me.

    We certainly see the world differently. Frankly, I see you as a complete waste of space, and I suspect the feeling is mutual.

    From my perspective all you have ‘contributed’ to this thread is a hate filled rant. It is for others to determine whether my analysis of your shit is right or wrong.

  93. Kismet Hardy — on 31st August, 2010 at 10:46 pm  

    Before I hop off this unmerry-go-round where the hate preacher is chasing the non-believer, I’ll leave you with my pennies.

    Incon, your heart is full of hate for those you don’t know. If it’s fear, don’t be afraid – your daughters will not be forced to wear the burkha. These muslims, ones you see on the street all bearded and weird, they just want to go about their day like any other human being. You getting fanatical puts you in the same little rubber ring as the very hate-filled fundos you despise so much. I hope one day when your life doesn’t seem so threatened, you’ll see that.

    Right, off to chase that sexy little midget…

  94. Incom — on 1st September, 2010 at 7:43 pm  

    @ douglas clark

    You must be on something. Surely. Or missing something important.

    Are you really telling me you couldn’t understand the point being made by listing the extreme traits of some Muslims was precisely that it is not all Muslims?

    Really?

    And that by the same token that I can list far, far more incidents of a far, far worse nature by Muslims then any EDL or alleged EDL incidents, that the conflation to the whole is erroneous.

    You cannot claim sweeping collectivism is wrong for one but not the other.

    And it really is down to me to criticize you Clark when you see fit to criticize me – albeit from a completely skewered premise of extreme misunderstanding – as one text says, judge and ye shall be judged.

    But where exactly is this “hate filled rant”? Come on, let’s see you produce it – because I certainly know it hasn’t happened and its all in your fevered imagination.

    Which pretty much sums up every comment you have made thus far.

  95. Incom — on 1st September, 2010 at 7:44 pm  

    @ Kismet Hardy

    You really think that a religion doesn’t an agenda?

    And really just one agenda and one agenda alone?!

    Especially Islam?! And that that agenda is everyone worshipping the one true God? The end to all Kafir?!

    You lie as causally as all the other so-called Anti-Fascists: There has been no hate here at all from me, no one word of it. All there has been is inconvenient truths, which in the world of the so-called Anti-Fascist is tantamount to hate.

    And I love how you claim to know the future with no doubts whatsoever. Tell me, what will next weeks lottery numbers be?

  96. joe90 — on 2nd September, 2010 at 1:26 am  

    wow take a break for 2 days and the puppet of alan lake is still saying edl are not racist lol.

    hows gurmit singh doing with his F*** all P***s statements oops but edl not racist right go to sleep you clown.

  97. Jai — on 2nd September, 2010 at 10:24 am  

    Lots of words to confirm you haven’t got the faintest idea of what tenets he is supposed to have broken or which parts Guru Granth Sahib he has contravened, in short, as I said, you don’t have a clue about what you are talking about.

    Keep believing that if it makes you feel better ;) Nice try, but no cigar. Not even close.

    Guramit Singh has been censured by no one other you.

    Ah, but he has. And this is all in the global public domain and has been unequivocally confirmed directly by the individuals concerned in formal statements given to the media. Guramit “Singh” has been publicly and very forcefully condemned by the most senior, respected and influential Sikh religious figures in Britain, who are themselves senior members of multiple international interfaith organisations, have even been formally awarded by the Queen for their humanitarian activities, and are directly affiliated with the most senior worldwide Sikh authorities at the Akal Takht in Amritsar.

    And that is the reality.

  98. Jai — on 2nd September, 2010 at 12:34 pm  

    Dalbir,

    And this fool above is trying to censure Sikhs for the militancy 1980s, something he/she has no clue about, whilst trying to recruit from amongst Sikhs at the same time. Let’s see how far they get with that.

    Not only that, but given his repeated references to the Guru Granth Sahib, including his latest remark….

    But I suspect it is just evidence less superstitious mumbo-jumbo like the rest of them.

    ….it’s also become patently clear that, apart from being vaguely familiar with the name “Guru Granth Sahib” and an inaccurate perception of it as being “the Sikh holy book” in the vein of the Bible or the Quran, he actually doesn’t have a clue what the Guru Granth Sahib is.

    Or, for that matter, its place within Sikhism, its contents, the background of a number of the authors involved, the broader ideological, ethical, political and historical framework of Sikhism as an organised religion, or even the basis of the Khalsa itself.

    But it’s useful to have written confirmation of someone desperately defending the EDL and Guramit “Singh”, particularly his persistent description of the latter as a “Sikh”, whilst simultaneously making highly prejudiced and disparaging remarks about the Guru Granth Sahib itself.

  99. Kismet Hardy — on 2nd September, 2010 at 4:57 pm  

    Incom, Islam has loads of agendas. Wash five times a day and meditate. Be tolerant of others. Give a portion of your earnings to the poor. Keep your body and mind and pure.

    EDL has one agenda: fuck all muslims.

    And your comment about me not knowing lottery numbers used as a stick to combat my prediction that your daughters won’t have to wear burkas reveals just what a bloody minded cretin you are.

    If sharia law was about to take over the country, why don’t 99% of muslims in this country give a toss about it?

    I may be a simple minded goat that believes in how good the world can be rather than get angry about how it should be, but you really are a hate-filled moron

  100. halima — on 2nd September, 2010 at 5:59 pm  

    Kismet Hardy

    “EDL has one agenda: fuck all muslims.”

    I do like people who say it like it is.

  101. Don — on 2nd September, 2010 at 6:04 pm  

    Kismet,

    EDL has one agenda: fuck all ( brown people, but for now we’ll pretend it’s just the )muslims.

    Fixed it for you.

  102. douglas clark — on 2nd September, 2010 at 6:10 pm  

    Incom,

    It wasn’t me that said:

    What about all those Muslims screaming for the blood of the infidel? What about all of those Muslims screaming disgusting abuse at British soldiers on British streets? What about all of those home-grown Muslims joining the Taliban and supporting the Taliban by supplying electronic components so they can make IED’s? What about all of them Muslims cutting off peoples heads and posting it online…

    As you use the word ‘all’ as a synonym for ‘very few’ – not to mention mixing and matching local and international politics with the alacrity of a master cocktail shaker – it is kind of hard to take you seriously…

    You are not, to my mind, debating, you are ranting.

    Are you a member of this EDL thing? It would explain quite a lot.

  103. Incom — on 2nd September, 2010 at 9:36 pm  

    @ Jai

    Do you really think we have all just dropped out of the sky?

    You claim this man has breached copious amounts of Sikh tenets but cannot name even one! Apparently it’s all a secret!

    And you cannot cite his official censure and excommunication or prove it has ever happened.

    Hmmm.

    And I would love to see the bit in the Guru Granth Sahib that proscribes the EDL and controls legal democratic protest in modern day Britain.

    And this is the reality.

  104. Incom — on 2nd September, 2010 at 9:39 pm  

    @ Halima

    “I do like people who say it like it is.”

    Really. And all without actually proving a thing.

    Wonderful system.

    The only agenda and objective of Islam for the Kafir is convert or die.

    You must love me then for telling you exactly how it is.

    And I can actually prove what I say. Unlike Kismet Hardy.

    Revolutionary I know. But some of us put stock in that.

    @ Don

    Really? Then why the black supporters, and Asian supporters and the unharmed Muslim EDL veteran supporter?

    @ Clark

    You are far to dense to bother with, and I strongly suspect, high or drunk.

    I took the time and effort to couch the reasons why in my best child explanation way: I avoided long words and complex concepts. I kept it short.

    Sorry, I cant make it any simpler for you.

    Take another swig. The grown ups are talking.

  105. Incom — on 2nd September, 2010 at 9:41 pm  

    @ Kismet Hardy

    “…“…. just what a bloody minded cretin you are…If sharia law was about to take over the country, why don’t 99% of muslims in this country give a toss about it? …”

    Actually even more of your ignorance catches up with you reveal what a “bloody minded cretin” you are.

    And a very dangerous one at that.

    Let’s be clear and enter the realms of reality here, difficult for you I know, but the evidence suggests that young home-grown Muslims are far, far more radical then their forebears and that there is much to be concerned about:

    Far from the truth being that “99% of muslims in this country give a toss about it” the reality is that 37% of young British Muslims want to live under Sharia: A legal system that stones women to death on the say so of two men, cuts off heads and hands and executes homosexuals.

    13% of young British Muslims support a terrorist organisation that exists to murder non-believers, and is currently killing British soldiers.

    36% of young British Muslims think that people who no longer choose to believe in Islam should be murdered – yes, that’s right: 36% of young British Muslims believe that people who no longer choose to believe in Islam should be put to death.

    37% of young British Muslims totally reject multi-culturism and British values and want to segregate their children and force a purely religious education upon them and 74% of young British Muslims think woman shouldn’t be seen in public unless they are covered up from head to toe.

    Source

    Just like Jai, you haven’t got the first clue of what you spouting off about do you?

    Not a clue.

  106. Don — on 2nd September, 2010 at 9:45 pm  

    As I mave mentioned, not yet harming stooges is scarcely a positive attribute.

    We recognise these people from long experience.

  107. Incom — on 2nd September, 2010 at 10:26 pm  

    @ Don

    Not yet harming is merely how you choose to put it.

    The fact is they have not been harmed period.

    And the Asian Muslim EDL supporter Abdul Salaam has been to pretty much every EDL protest.

    That is the reality. That is the truth behind the lurid propaganda of the far left that brands all dissenters as Nazis. And really that tactic is so worn out now that fewer and fewer people are scared by it anymore.

    The truth and reality is that the vast majority of the EDL are peacefully engaged in legal democratic protest and that fact is borne out by the police reports, the causality and arrest rates as well as the media we can see.

    You want to tar one group wholly because it suits your political bent, but if anyone were to use that some brush to wholly tar some other group you feel are elevated above this collectivism you will be the first crying foul.

    Pure hypocrisy.

    I recognise this from long experience.

    And as for your “these people” remark, care to use it for some groups other then primarily white working class lads?

  108. Don — on 2nd September, 2010 at 11:24 pm  

    The fact is they have not been harmed period.

    Oh, well done you.

    And as for your “these people” remark, care to use it for some groups other then primarily white working class lads

    I seriously doubt that every white working class lad buys into your project. The term ‘these people’ was aimed at you and your kind. You kmow perfectly well who I’m talking about.

  109. douglas clark — on 3rd September, 2010 at 12:05 am  

    Incom @ 104,

    Oh! here we go again with the cheap insults about folk that don’t agree with Incom.

    You are far to dense to bother with, and I strongly suspect, high or drunk.

    I took the time and effort to couch the reasons why in my best child explanation way: I avoided long words and complex concepts. I kept it short.

    Sorry, I cant make it any simpler for you.

    Take another swig. The grown ups are talking.

    Your suspicions are wrong Incom. I’d suggest to you that you are high or drunk on your own rhetoric. For you don’t listen, you don’t actually respond to comments – your observations @ 104 being pretty much the outer limit of your debating tactics – you simply move on to the next point in your twelve point plan to utter insanity. It is what you do, it is, apparently, who you are.

    You are easily quoted on this thread as a petulant little fool. I have done so @ 102. And don’t give me the bleeding heart fascist shit about muslims not being a race. For most of us know that….

    ______________________________________

    Rephrase this as a question:

    As you use the word ‘all’ as a synonym for ‘very few’ – not to mention mixing and matching local and international politics with the alacrity of a master cocktail shaker – it is kind of hard to take you seriously…

    then try to answer it.

    You are so full misdirected hate it is actually painful to watch.

    Have you tried medication?

  110. persephone — on 3rd September, 2010 at 12:17 am  

    “ You lie as causally as all the other so-called Anti-Fascists” and “There has been no hate here at all from me, no one word of it” and “ inconvenient truths “

    Hello Reza. Why bother with a new moniker when your brand of commentary marks you out?

  111. Kismet Hardy — on 3rd September, 2010 at 12:25 am  

    37% of young British Muslims totally reject multi-culturism and British values and want to segregate their children and force a purely religious education upon them and 74% of young British Muslims think woman shouldn’t be seen in public unless they are covered up from head to toe.

    Source

    Ha ha ha. The source is from the Daily Mail.

    Dude. I’m not just an Asian, but I’m a professional Asian – as an Asian journalist I make my living being one, and trust me, I know a hell of a lot more Asians than the Mail or you’ve certainly ever met, and you know what they care about? How do I get a girl to shag me? What’s the in-shade for nail polish for autumn?

    Seriously mate. There’s like ten people in the UK who wants sharia law and they’re not getting laid is all

  112. persephone — on 3rd September, 2010 at 12:38 am  

    I ‘d like to say that I have many hi brow(n) interests.

    Psst.. quick… what is the in-shade for nail polish in autumn/winter 11?

  113. douglas clark — on 3rd September, 2010 at 12:48 am  

    Incom,

    You appear like a comet in the sky. A harbringer of, well, summat. Doom, probably.

    What exactly is your experience in the EDL that leads you to say:

    I recognise this from long experience.

    And what does ‘long experience’ actually consist of? Apart from idiocy dressed in cloth.

    Frankly you are playing the enigma wrapped in a mystery a bit too close to your chest sunshine.

    You must have quite a history in the racist movement to think you stood a chance here.

    Whatever else it is, Pickled Politics is an anti-racist site, although some folk seem to miss that point.

    I am quite fond of a lot of the people that post here, whether I agree with them or not. They are people that seem to me to be ‘good eggs’, whatever their religion on their skin colour. They also seem to be entirely rational; well, most of the time…

    You are like an alien wasp that tries to kill that sense of community. And you do it out of a misplaced, misguided ignorance that knows no bounds of commonsense.

    That, sunbeam, is what you are right now. Try to grow the fuck up…

  114. douglas clark — on 3rd September, 2010 at 12:57 am  

    persephone,

    Hello Reza. Why bother with a new moniker when your brand of commentary marks you out?

    You think?

  115. Kismet Hardy — on 3rd September, 2010 at 1:12 am  

    “Psst.. quick… what is the in-shade for nail polish in autumn/winter 11?”

    Metallic. It’s all the rage

  116. Jai — on 3rd September, 2010 at 11:29 am  

    You claim this man has breached copious amounts of Sikh tenets but cannot name even one! Apparently it’s all a secret!

    On the contrary, the information is freely available, and this has been the case for the past 500 years. And the multiple tenets of Sikhism which both the EDL’s Guramit “Singh” and the BNP’s Rajinder “Singh” are violating have already been discussed on this website on numerous previous occasions, in extensive detail.

    I’m not going to spoonfeed the details to someone who is either disingenuously feigning ignorance or really is grossly ignorant about these issues; in fact, the remark in #68 speculating “if the Guru Granth Sahib has a section on what political outlook people are supposed to have” makes it glaringly obvious that you’re so completely clueless about Sikhism that you don’t even know what the Guru Granth Sahib actually is, let alone its contents, the background of a number of its authors, or its specific place within Sikhism itself .

    When you engage in yet another instance of blatant psychological projection by accusing me of being unaware about a certain subject, when PP readers can simply go through this website’s archives in order to read my own writings on the subject both in actual lead articles and on comments threads going back a number of years, then it’s not just a case of shooting yourself in the foot so much as blowing your entire leg right off.

    And as I said earlier in #98, it’s very useful to have written confirmation of someone desperately attempting to defend the EDL’s Guramit “Singh” and repeatedly identifying him as a “Sikh”, yet simultaneously making highly offensive remarks about the Guru Granth Sahib itself. Very useful indeed.

    And you cannot cite his official censure

    Guramit “Singh” has been publicly condemned by the director of the British Sikh Consultative Forum, in formal statements given to the British media. The chairman of BSCF is directly connected to the Akal Takht in Amritsar, he is the most senior and respected Sikh figure in Britain, he formally represents the global Sikh population at international religious conferences involving the most senior leaders of all the world’s major faiths, he is a senior member of international interfaith committees, he runs a number of charitable humanitarian organisations in Britain which have been formally given an award by the Queen for their voluntary services, and he is sufficiently senior that he was the primary person escorting the Queen on behalf of the global Sikh population during her visit to the Golden Temple in Amritsar during the late 90s. Incidentally, the Akal Takht, the worldwide seat of Sikh temporal & political authority, is also part of the Golden Temple complex.

    And that is the reality.

  117. Jai — on 3rd September, 2010 at 11:32 am  

    “ You lie as causally as all the other so-called Anti-Fascists” and “There has been no hate here at all from me, no one word of it” and “ inconvenient truths “

    Hello Reza. Why bother with a new moniker when your brand of commentary marks you out?

    Indeed. Not only is he “Reza”, he is actually the BNP activist and Stormfront & Majority Rights regular “Dan Dare”, who has of course subsequently posted on this website under multiple aliases. As Persephone has noted, one of the consequences of heavily commenting on a website over an extensive period of time, including repeatedly writing very lengthy posts, is that it becomes very easy to identify the person concerned irrespective of how many fake aliases they try to hide behind. Especially when they’re also quoting whole chunks of their previous remarks verbatim.

    A couple of days ago, he also posted multiple comments on this thread consisting of about half a dozen photographs of random women at EDL rallies who were unaware that they were being photographed, coupled with lascivious remarks about the women concerned (PP’s editorial team had to rapidly delete them). What a creepy little man he is.

  118. damon — on 3rd September, 2010 at 11:51 am  

    I didn’t think Reza was Dan Dare – but I couldn’t care less either. Why even bother replying to any of this?
    The EDL are a bunch of idiots – but they are a constituent part of British society too. A lumpen and backward part, but they’re not going away, and I’m not that surprised (now that they have showed up in the form of the EDL) that they have done so.
    Such a reaction to extreme levels of multi-cultulturalism was to be expected somewhere along the line. Unfortunate, but to be expected.
    Personally, I wouldn’t get too alarmed by them. They usually go home after a few hours.

  119. Incom — on 3rd September, 2010 at 8:53 pm  

    @ Don

    All you have done is repeat the same load of old codswallop without proof.

    Lets not pretend that your own personal prejudices and bigotry are anything other then that.

    @ Clark

    You are high again, clearly.

    It has all been ever so carefully explained to you in comment #94.

    But in any case, aside from the fact that you have totally missed the point once again, every single word was true. And I can post the proof one by one if you claim it isn’t.

    @ Damon

    Why bother responding to an internet site that exists purely for debate in order to demand that no one debates on said internet site that purely exists for debate with someone who posts debate on said site?

    Why are you even bothering to come here if you don’t want debate and why are comments even allowed if no one is allowed to disagree?

  120. Incom — on 3rd September, 2010 at 8:53 pm  

    @ Kisemt Hardy

    Predictably dishonest response.

    The source isn’t the Daily Mail at all but an independent fully reputable polling company called Populas:

    http://www.populuslimited.com/

    Really, “you people” (thank Don for that one, so-called antifa in this case) will say and do anything to avoid reality and “you people” will say and do anything other then prove your case.

    Whether you like it or not “mate” you are talking from the wrong end once again.

    How many young Muslsm really want Sharia over your nonsense: 37%.

    How many want to murder people who no longer believe in Islam: 36%.

    How many want segregated Islamic education: 37%.

    How many want to oppress women: 74%.

    And that is the reality.

  121. Incom — on 3rd September, 2010 at 8:54 pm  

    @ Jai

    I understand this is the routine of yours:

    1) Make absurd outlandish comments you cannot substantiate, mostly entirely divorced from reality and hope no one challenges it

    2) When it is challenged, continue to post said comments whilst alluding to how stupid and ignorant the enquirer of the evidence is for asking for evidence without actually posting any evidence

    3) After enquirer posts more and more comments exposing the ludicrous premise and corrupt tactics, claim the enquirer is really some sinister bogey man, whilst again offering no evidence

    4) Attempt to justify censorship of enquirer of the basis of this spurious accusation and further spurious accusations of fabricated wrong doing, all again without a single shred of evidence

    About sum your and your well worn tactics Jai?

    Pathetic.

  122. Dalbir — on 4th September, 2010 at 1:10 am  

    This is hilarious:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNX3UCTpvY4

    Where are you!! Where are you!!

    In the bushes, all fucked up….

  123. Kismet Hardy — on 4th September, 2010 at 7:55 am  

    Popul-ass.

    I work in Asian media and have been doing so since the Koran was in its first edition, and I meet more young Asian Muslims than Daily Mail peddles horseshit and they. don’t. give. a. fuck. about. any. law. Let alone sharia law. They’re young, they want to know where Neyo gets his trainers. Get that into your thick paranoid skull you frightened little nincompoop.

  124. Jai — on 4th September, 2010 at 7:34 pm  

    Dalbir, Kismet, Persephone, Don, Douglas,

    Apart from the pointlessness of engaging with apologists for the EDL, I think that none of us should talk any further to someone who is actually also a pervert who secretly takes photographs of unsuspecting women he spots in public and then attempts to post them on the internet, as mentioned in #117.

    Not only does Incom/Reza/Dan Dare’s behaviour in this matter break multiple British laws, but it potentially also qualifies him to be entered onto the Sex Offenders Register, assuming of course that he isn’t already on it. The latter wouldn’t surprise me at all.

    PP readers who accessed this website between 4.30pm and 5.00pm on 29th August 2010 will be aware of the photographs involved. We’ve obviously deleted those posts from this thread in order to protect the women concerned, but we actually still have the evidence stored in PP’s archives.

    As if Incom/Reza/Dan Dare’s bigotry, ignorance and racism weren’t bad enough. By his own actions, he’s now categorically proven that he also poses a clear and present danger to women, especially female strangers whom he spots in public and finds attractive.

  125. Aka — on 4th September, 2010 at 10:41 pm  

    @. Kismet Hardy

    Hmmm.

    Let’s see.

    The extremely biased word of an abusive untrained and unscientific arbitrary straw pollster or the results from an independent scientific study by a professional company that does this for a living…

    Nope.

    Sorry.

    No one in their right mind would even consider your version as having even one iota of evidential bearing in the real world.

    Precisely because of that though, no doubt you will find much support here!

    But aside from the scientific poll, we have fact in the way of your fantasy:

    British Muslims have blown themselves up on public transport here. British Muslims have joined the Taliban. British Muslims are supporting the Taliban by sending electrical components so that they can made IED’s that kill British soldiers…

    I really could go on, and on, and on.

    That is the reality.

  126. aka Incom — on 5th September, 2010 at 1:17 pm  

    @. Jai

    Res, Non Verba.

    Truly pathetic and deeply desperate stuff.

    It really is. You need your head read, pal. You are off your rocker.

    I am none of these people (if any of them even exist) as you well know and as a consequence you have not a scrap of proof.

    Your well worn tactic in the face of coherent dissent was fully explained before, and appears again below.

    It is your only recourse to challenges to your ludicrous comments and posts that are lurid but entirely substanceless.

    It is your only approach to be exposed as an evidenceless crank.

    You are probably the worst offender of the pure ad hominem approach I have ever seen on the internet and that is quite a remarkable feat given the competition.

    This is your routine:

    1) Make absurd outlandish comments you cannot substantiate, mostly entirely divorced from reality and hope no one challenges it

    2) When it is challenged, continue to post said comments whilst alluding to how stupid and ignorant the enquirer of the evidence is for asking for evidence without actually posting any evidence

    3) After enquirer posts more and more comments exposing the ludicrous premise and corrupt tactics, claim the enquirer is really some sinister bogey man, whilst again offering no evidence

    4) Attempt to justify censorship of enquirer of the basis of this spurious accusation and further spurious accusations of fabricated wrong doing, all again without a single shred of evidence

  127. aka .Incom — on 5th September, 2010 at 1:20 pm  

    @ Jai

    Res, Non Verba.

    I see you have gone done the smear and censor route.

    Truly pathetic and deeply desperate stuff.

    It really is. You need your head read, pal. You are off your rocker.

    I am none of these people (if any of them even exist) as you well know and as a consequence you have not a scrap of proof.

    Your well worn tactic in the face of coherent dissent was fully explained before, and appears again below.

    It is your only recourse to challenges to your ludicrous comments and posts that are lurid but entirely substanceless.

    It is your only approach to be exposed as an evidenceless crank.

    You are probably the worst offender of the pure ad hominem approach I have ever seen on the internet and that is quite a remarkable feat given the competition.

    This is your routine:

    1) Make absurd outlandish comments you cannot substantiate, mostly entirely divorced from reality and hope no one challenges it

    2) When it is challenged, continue to post said comments whilst alluding to how stupid and ignorant the enquirer of the evidence is for asking for evidence without actually posting any evidence

    3) After enquirer posts more and more comments exposing the ludicrous premise and corrupt tactics, claim the enquirer is really some sinister bogey man, whilst again offering no evidence

    4) Attempt to justify censorship of enquirer of the basis of this spurious accusation and further spurious accusations of fabricated wrong doing, all again without a single shred of evidence

  128. joe90 — on 5th September, 2010 at 6:10 pm  

    aka post #125

    you posted the same s**t in post number #88 you only changed you name from incom to aka lol

  129. Kismet Hardy — on 5th September, 2010 at 7:32 pm  

    “No one in their right mind would even consider your version as having even one iota of evidential bearing in the real world.”

    No one in their right mind would consider you as someone who lives in the real world.

    Seriously. Stop being so angry. You might get laid

  130. aka — on 5th September, 2010 at 7:49 pm  

    @ joe90

    That would be because the well worn procedure of smear and censor has been followed once again for a dissenter on this site.

    @ Kismet Hardy

    Res, Non Verba.

    You are wrong, and I have produced evidence to prove you are wrong.

    You just persist with the fantasy that I am a hate-filled lunatic because I dare to disagree and actually debate with facts rather then actually produce any facts or evidence of your own.

    Not quite as extreme as Jai’s bizarre and desperate tactics I will concede, but in the ball park. Heading that way.

    If you guys don’t want debate and total agreement is a perquisite for commenting on this site why not just say so in the comments policy or ideally with a banner so everyone knows where they stand.

    That would solve the problem of dissent without having to stoop to such utterly bizarre and see-through depths of Jai’s lunatic tactics of substanceless smears and perverted discredit attempts.

    If you can’t defend your ideas without such recourse, it really is time you revisited what it is you think you are defending and the moral compass you think is so vastly superior to your detractors.

  131. Kismet Hardy — on 5th September, 2010 at 8:04 pm  

    Dude, you’re sadder than I am. No one agrees with you, they’re not going to, however many times you bang on from the same bollock bag you pick your paranoia from. EDL are full of racist pricks, Muslim extremists are cunts, neither you or I are getting laid. Let it go. Surf some porn

  132. aka — on 5th September, 2010 at 8:44 pm  

    @ Kismet Hardy

    Again, Res, Non Verba.

    Again, you fill up a whole comment with no facts, no substance just more pure ad hominem and more straw men.

    When you say “no agrees with you” that is patently false as many people agree with me.

    If it is on this site and on this thread you are talking about then fine. They don’t have to agree at all. But surely the whole point of having comments enabled is for debate and not for childish see through, absurd and depraved empty smears that dissenters are really sexual criminals / mad / stupid / hateful etc

    None of these tactics are new, the Soviets used to deem all dissent as mental illness and send the dissenters to the asylum for political rehabilitation. Those dissenters beyond their reach, and who couldn’t be murdered for whatever reason were treated to the same smear campaigns as Jai carries out here with everyone who disagrees with him.

    If that is the era you are trying to replicate then you are doing a great job.

    But the truth is that a scientific based poll has shown that opinions quite reasonably considered as extremist are quite widely entrenched amongst young Muslims. Why wouldn’t they be, given that is exactly what their religion teaches?

    Having now moved past the lie that it was the Daily Mail that carried out the research and accepted that it was an independent polling company that does this for a living, you went into some nonsensical and childish rant about the polling company and its finding without providing a single scrap of proof.

    None of this has been debate on here. Not one comment. All it has been is an exercise of totalitarian style attempts at screaming down the dissenter at all costs, irregardless of any coherent points made.

    So once again I say if you guys don’t want debate and total agreement is a perquisite for commenting on this site why not just say so in the comments policy or ideally with a banner so everyone knows where they stand.

    If you can’t defend your ideas without such recourse, it really is time you revisited what it is you think you are defending and the moral compass you think is so vastly superior to your detractors.

  133. Kismet Hardy — on 5th September, 2010 at 9:04 pm  

    Hm. Should I laugh at you for not knowing Islam doesn’t teach hate and it’s only the hateful few that twist it to serve their own purpose, much like how football doesn’t advocate hooliganism?

    Should I go into the validity of polls being as reliable as a fart in a wet sack speaking out on behalf of all luggage? Or should I try to help you?

    As a man raised a Muslim, I think I’m going to help you. Hot tip for porn surfing:

    Midgets are particularly in this season.

  134. douglas clark — on 5th September, 2010 at 10:46 pm  

    aka,

    There are facts – several muslim extremists killed a lot of folk on 7/7 – including other muslims. to take an example.

    And there is what we are supposed to make of the facts.

    According to you, we should see all muslims as extremists. I would tend to see all psychotic, weak folk as extremists. If you did a Venn diagram – I’m not losing you here, am I? – it would seem to me that the killers come from all shades and stripes, and they make a wee, wee core of nutters. These are the folk you concentrate on, these are the folk you try to suggest are everyone.

    It doesn’t wash Incom.

    You should write for the Daily Mail, so you should.

    You, however, can’t – or most probably, won’t – see that, ’cause you hate muslims.

    That, sir is your bottom line.

    No amount of discussion, no amount of you being telt that you are generalising all over the place is going to make the slightest difference to you.

    I’d agree with Kismet, best get off on the porn, for there is fuck all chance of you getting laid…

    Well maybe not:

    “Ooh, ooh, tell me more about the evil folk. You big, sexy racist, you.”

    Big is as relative a term as ‘all’ seems to me to be to you…..

    Suck on that.
    __________________________________

    Jai, sorry, but this piece of shit annoys the hell out of me.

  135. aka — on 5th September, 2010 at 11:07 pm  

    @ Clark

    You are wasting your own time now, not mine.

    I don’t read a single hateful drunken word you spew anymore.

    @ Kismet Hardy

    Now we get to the real reasons behind the avoidance of reality.

    Now we get to the crux of the anti-reality bias and the bizarre vitriol.

    Islam doesn’t teach hate? In a thread full of malicious fantasy, you are up there with Jai now, you really are.

    You say you were raised as a Muslim, so you have no excuse then for not knowing the vehement hate for the Kafir taught by the Koran and it is only reasonable to conclude you either think this is not hate and perfectly acceptable sentiment, or you are as dishonest as they come.

    Let me refresh your memory:

    “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.”

    (Koran 9:5)

    “I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them.”

    (Koran 8:12)

    “The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.”

    (Koran 98:1-8)

    “(It will be said) Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat.”

    (Koran 69:30-37)

    “Allah is an enemy to unbelievers.”

    (Koran 2: 98)

  136. Kismet Hardy — on 5th September, 2010 at 11:16 pm  

    God bless wikiquotes. All religious books are loaded with ‘non-believers shall verily perish in vats of blistering hot oil’, and are transliterated to shit (I’ve read the Qu’ran in three languages – the people of the light, jews, are held in pretty high regard as it goes), but Qu’ran aside, the crux of all religious books (the self-help airport best buys of their day) are: be good. Don’t be a cunt. All of them.

    You are nothing if not really, really fucking boring.

  137. Kismet Hardy — on 5th September, 2010 at 11:30 pm  

    Actually, seeing as midgetbukkake.org is down, I may as well waste my time trying to knock some sense into that rubber-walled skull of yours:

    The Qu’ran is a book. Written by a bunch of men. In our progressive years of civilisation, philosophy and enlightenment, men today remain largely intolerant, racist, homophobic, sexist and dumb, so they were obviously more so back then.

    So. What?

    Like you, most Muslims don’t read the book by the book. The world over, the majority read it in Arabic. It’s the teachings that wise and nice Imams (who aren’t out to kill and destroy any more than those wise and nice priests who don’t want to enact sadistic acts on little boys) garner from the book, and the lost souls who need guidance for a bit of peace in their sad, pathetic lives, are who make up that humoungous body of widely individual human beings we know as Muslims.

    Call them deluded for believing in angels and shit, but it’s not mine nor your business what makes a person feel less afraid of life.

    Majority of religious people want to feel hopeful, unlike say a fascist organisation that exclusively preaches hate.

    Get it? Of course not. You’re a moron.

  138. douglas clark — on 5th September, 2010 at 11:53 pm  

    aka @ 133

    @ Clark

    You are wasting your own time now, not mine.

    I don’t read a single hateful drunken word you spew anymore.

    ________________________

    Really?

    ________________________

    You got extra sensory perception that deals with my posts now?

    So why the fuck are you replying to me you brain dead moron?

  139. Kismet Hardy — on 5th September, 2010 at 11:58 pm  

    “I don’t read…”

    You don’t say?

  140. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2010 at 12:20 am  

    Kismet,

    No, he doesn’t. He doesn’t read what you say or I say and just lumps us all into a ghetto of his imagination of nightmares. I would not like to be ‘aka’, frightened of the dark. heh!

    It seems to me that “aka” is exactly the sort of xenophobe white guy that I hate. That tries to wind up the “white base” with, hopefully, zero success.

    Who are these people? What is the point of “aka”?

    That is beyond understanding, so it is.

    Most of the folk I know seem to think this sort of arguement is ridiculous. It seems to them that the ideas that aka promulgates are mad.

    I suspect we have not seen the last of him….

  141. Kismet Hardy — on 6th September, 2010 at 12:24 am  

    I like that he’s here though. I dunno about you, but I kind of sometimes find myself taking my friends for granted. Everyone is reasonable and tolerant and not fucking insane, I think, what’s so special about people I know? Then I come across folk like him and I want to bend over the folk I know and give them a good hard loving rogering of appreciation and thanks. Note: want to.

    Plus talking to him makes me feel kinda humanitarian, like I’ve helped a poor, lost zombie across the road, even if his head fell off and remains bleeding on the pavement

  142. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2010 at 12:46 am  

    Kismet Hardy,

    Plus talking to him makes me feel kinda humanitarian, like I’ve helped a poor, lost zombie across the road, even if his head fell off and remains bleeding on the pavement

    Well,

    Yes.

    It is the same sort of sensation, wrong though it was, when, I as a child, gave to the Africans. When I was actually giving to white Christians.

    How fucked up was that?

    You’ve got to hit the zombies hard, on the head…

    A magic sword helps, apparently…

  143. aka — on 6th September, 2010 at 1:12 am  

    @ Clark

    I already told you. You’re wasting your own time, not mine.

    Not a single word of your hateful drunken spew is read.

    @ Kismet Hardy

    It didn’t come from “wikiqoutes” it came from the Koran.

    The core text of Islam.

    Like I said, as a proclaimed Muslim either you know the visceral hatred of the Kafir (and many others) and think its fine, or you are a simply a liar.

    You say Muslims don’t read the Qur’an?! Who the hell are you trying to fool now?

    A Muslim who doesn’t read the Koran is not a Muslim at all.

    So which are you?

    I can cite thousands of examples of Muslims who have carried out the word of the Qur’an to the letter in just the last few years. And you know I can. Easily.

    Let me refresh your mind of the Islamic attitude to women:

    “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

    Qur’an 4:15

    “(This is) a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”

    Qur’an 24:1

    “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.”

    Qur’an 24:6

  144. Kismet Hardy — on 6th September, 2010 at 1:32 am  

    Read.

  145. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2010 at 5:44 am  

    Ha ha!

    I already told you. You’re wasting your own time, not mine.

    Not a single word of your hateful drunken spew is read.

    Well, why are you responding?

    You really are a crazy old bean, aren’t you?

    You take denial to a whole new level.

    On a serious note, it is the case that muslims died as a consequence of 7/7. It is not the case that they went to ‘heaven’ directly. That would be apologia for evil writ large.

    However,the evil little fuckers that perpetrated 7/7 have met their match in utter inhumanity in you, aka.

    So far, it is just words for you. Hate words, admittedly, but so far words only. But the hate is there, the desire to identify a group as the guilty party is there. It wouldn’t take a lot to turn these words into actions, now would it, aka? Look into the deep and the deep looks back…

    You’d quite like that, wouldn’t you?

    You are just the other side of a coin, you would support this society by becoming everything it stands against. On the basis of what, exactly? A total fuck up in the brain box aka.

    How many folk that were killed on the London Underground or on that bus had a nuanced view on Afghanistan or Iraq? Why were they the target?

    Just because.

    How many muslims have a nuanced view on the same subject? And. if they do, who says it involves jihad or the like?

    Only you, aka. Only you.

    And you are playing a game of mirroring. We gotta hate muslims, just because. Like the jihadists hate society at large, just because.

    Well, no, you idiot. It is not like that, though I suspect – from reading your shit here – that you’d quite like it to be so?

    Indeed your little band of brothers is doing it’s best to poison the well and turn words into actions.

    You and your chums in the EDL are thoughtless, idiotic little morons. Who represent no-one but the thuggish element of society at large. Congratualations for being a populist. I suspect you have much in common with Anjem Choudary, you are both mental.

    It seems to me that Sunny Hundal had a point to make when he started this blog. It was to the effect that Asians should not be beholden to people that claim to represent them.

    ‘Community leaders’ if you will.

    It seems to me that you and your ilk are trying to position yourselves in exactly the same way. Well, you don’t represent anything but your own worst nightmares.

    As far as I am concerned you can go fuck yourselves.

    Aka, did you really think I was talking to you? This is a public space and they are our audience. You should think about that before posting.

    Just a suggestion.

    _______________________

    This was brought to you, dear reader, on the basis that aka subverts logic and subverts reality in favour of polemic.

    If he represents anyone at all, it is about a thousand thugs. The question that ought to be addressed – about people like him and his role model Anjem Choudary – is why do some folk care what the loonies think?

    I don’t. I trust you don’t either….

    Madness stalks the land and power hungry folk are rampant in their grab for power.

    Sad times.

  146. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:57 am  

    It is interesting, is it not, that aka cannot handle an arguement except on his own terms?

    It is important for him to belittle the likes of Kismet Hardy and Jai, because they dispute what he has to say. Whilst Jai may be many things – hopefully – it is pretty plain that he ‘knows his stuff’ when it comes to Shikkism. (I checked the spelling on t’intetrnet, but I’d be happier with ‘Sikkism’ myself).

    Why would anyone, that was not at at the very least an apostate to a religion, feel they were an expert?

    I was brought up as a Christian, and gave it up for the very reasons that Christians say you shouldn’t. The verifiable, or frankly otherwise, nature of the belief has me seeing God as a trickster. Why does he hide his light under a bushel?

    Dunno, and no-one is willing to see the God of Christians as a joker. Which he’d have to be given his total non-interventionist bullshit. Given the opportunity, I’d like to stick a Kalishnikov up his nose and ask a few questions.

    I have a degree of respect for folk that do believe. It seems to me that they need an externalised force to ‘be good’. And if that works for them, then so be it.

    It is a means to self control, probably.

    But, enough of that.

    The point is that all religions have an, internally consistent, philosophy.

    It behoves no-one that comes at any religion like a bull in a china shop – Richard Dawkins I’m looking at you – to say it is inconsistent with the ‘modern world’ or not.

    Religions, which it seems to me only exist because consensual adults wish them to, adapt or die.

    There is no-one – OK, the odd freak – that worships Baal these days.

    Anyways, Sikkism seems more of a philosophy than a religion to me. Although it is dressed up as one.

    The point being that, as an outsider, my ideas are probably rubbish. Only someone that was a Sikh has the knowledge to comment. Or an ex-Sikh perhaps.

    What makes laymen experts on the tenets of world religions? One of my friends here wrote a whole thread about ‘troubling hadiths’, which challenged the male dominant aspect of some muslim ideas.

    It seemed to me that that sort of post raised the veil on some pretty pathetic, and pretty obvious, uses of religion as a tool for male dominance. But, that is what I see in all religions I have looked at. Except, perhaps Sikkism. And I’m no expert on that either.

    Wandering away off the point, but laying blame at the door of a religion for the twisted ends they sometimes countenance seems to me to be putting the cart before the horse. People make religions in their own image. Not the other way around.

    That, sadly, is how we get the ‘zonal defence’ methods of scientology. A piece of pish invented by a – not very good – science fiction writer.

    Though that would be subject to me understanding, or caring, enough about it.

    The point is that challenging someones’ beliefs is a fraught and dodgy thing to do.

  147. Kismet Hardy — on 6th September, 2010 at 9:58 am  

    This has descended into sixth-formers taking on the kindergarten bully. You can’t duff him up, and you can’t stop his stealing your little brother’s sweets either. But you can walk away knowing he cries into his lonely unloved wankstained pillow every night

  148. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2010 at 10:14 am  

    Kismet Hardy @ 146,

    You can’t duff him up, and you can’t stop his stealing your little brother’s sweets either.

    I think you can. I think you do. And should. For how is the silly bugger supposed to learn?

    I ask you!

    No, I don’t really. That was a rhetorical flourish or summat.

    :-)

  149. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2010 at 11:36 am  

    Jai,

    I share your contempt for aka. But I am getting more than a little fed up with the idea that taking photographs makes someone a pervert. This is a ‘modern’ idea about what rights actually are, and plays quite nicely into the cops idea that taking pictures is a bit, well, evil. You cannot take pictures in Central London with a real camera without coming under the scrutiny of plod.

    This is not just ridiculous, it is a surrender to an authoritarian shower of gits.

    You may be willing to give that particular ground up on the basis of a web spat.

    I am not.

    It seems to me that we should be shown the offending photographs, lest you be accused of being a book burner.

    You strike me, on this iteration, to be throwing the kitchen sink at aka. You are in danger of throwing out civil liberties with the bathwater.

    He deserves it, but most photographers don’t. In fact they are harrassed by cops.

    What, exactly, did he do wrong, photographically speaking?

  150. Jai — on 6th September, 2010 at 2:01 pm  

    It seems to me that we should be shown the offending photographs

    That’s Sunny’s judgement call. As this website’s senior editor and the person with primary moderating privileges for this specific thread, Sunny rapidly removed the offending comments. I respect and fully support his decision.

    [Edited by moderator]

    As such it is completely futile to engage with him on any topic whatsoever. You are not dealing with someone of sound mind.

    [Edited by moderator]

    This thread has, however, been highly effective in smoking out the true views and behaviour of the EDL’s supporters. In that sense, it has been very constructive indeed.

  151. begaree — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:00 pm  

    The English Defence League is now a year old. Happy birthday. And it has been a colourful (but mainly white) year of various embarrassments, schisms, riots, accusations and speculations. The EDL formed in May 2009 when the ‘United People of Luton’ counter demonstrated against ‘Islamic radicals’ at the homecoming parade of the Royal Anglian Regiment. Around the EDL circulate various grupuscules such as the SDL, WDL, Casuals United and the Stop Islamification Of Europe, all of whom are seemingly interchangeable and ‘anti-Islamic Extremism.’ The EDL also have clearly documented links with the BNP, BPP, RVF, ‘Aryan Strike Force’ and other far right fantasists despite their by now laughable claims be neither racist nor violent.

    The Year So Far
    The EDL have had some interesting demonstrations over the last year in various towns and cities. What they actually achieved, beyond ego-boosting publicity, has also been varied. To recap: the Luton incident galvanised the EDL and they followed this up with a series of small fiascos in London and Birmingham, the latter of which the EDL admitted was poor. Result: 35 arrests. They followed this one up with another Brum protest in September. Result: 90 arrests. Their Manchester debut saw a massive police presence, large counter-demonstration and much publicity. The result: £800,000 policing bill, 10 injuries and 44 arrests. At Leeds, there was a huge police presence costing £375,000 and 8 arrests. At the same time their ‘southern divisions’ planned a counter-demonstration in London against a radical Islamic faction which ended in a pub fight with Combat 18. Result: serious schisms between the EDL and the porcine vanguard of the far right. In November, the Welsh Defence League (comprising mainly of Bolton Wanderers fans it seems) organised a 40 strong fiasco in Wrexham. Result: 4 arrests and many perplexed locals. Their previous Welsh adventure was similarly farcical and disrupted by Nazis. North of the border has proved equally maladroit. In Glasgow their “big success” was actually only 120 lads. According to Casuals United many supporters from England were stopped by cops en route. To add to their woes, some of the ‘leadership’ were arrested and had their homes searched and computers seized. This is all very well but the EDL do not necessarily need them: the members can simply announce a date on the website and RV point and take it from there. The EDL is more autonomous and fragmented than the police think and many ignore the ‘leaderships’ pleas.

    The Nottingham demonstration proved to be costly and eventful with the EDL kettled in a pub and then by the castle. Result: £1/2 million police bill, 11 arrests and many photographs of patriots urinating on a national monument. The Stoke demo showed the EDL in their true colours (sort of pasty, pale and lager flecked): it ended with supporters fighting the cops and then rampaging through an Asian area. This caused much consternation on the EDL forum with members slamming those who rioted and sieg-heiled in a beer induced frenzy. In March the EDL caused a major disruption in Bolton with about 2,000 attending. Result: heavy policing and lots of anti-fascists nicked. Although 2,000 is a serious number, their successive demos have never increased beyond this. There was also a small EDL demo outside parliament which faced militant opposition. An April demo in Aylesbury – ‘the first of many’ – saw around 2,000 again, 12 arrests and not much else. 2 of the EDL also ‘occupied’ the proposed site of a mega-mosque which was almost completely ignored by the national media and proved to be a wash out. The EDL were to hold a demo in Walsall in June but they have apparently called it off. The recent demo in Newcastle saw about 600 EDL confronted by a much larger counter-demo and they were well contained. The EDL intend to demonstrate in Bradford soon which will no doubt cause trouble: Muslim youth are bound to react to this blatant provocation. Which is the intention. Why the cops are allowing this when Bradford youth have a proven track record of militancy is only 1 question.

    The State & The EDL
    Many are the claims on the various left and far-right websites that the EDL are ‘state’ designed to draw in and contain violent racists and discredit the far right in general. Wherever the EDL gather they are heavily monitored by the cops, often filmed individually during dispersals, and it is no surprise that the pubs they meet in for their ‘static protest’ are Wetherspoons which are all equipped with CCTV. It is not unlikely that the cops seize any footage taken. It also requires no stretch of the imagination to believe that the state have their informants and infiltrators, as they have had in the BNP for many years, and know what is going on. Bully for the state. There is also the Sheffield question. Although these are only unsubstantiated rumours several commentators are asking what happened in Sheffield between the cops and the EDL? The ‘leadership’ were arrested and taken to Sheffield police station no doubt by Special Branch/MI5 rather than uniform. Was there a deal? We’ll go easy on the ‘moderate’ EDL you if you give us info on the serious hooligans, or even better Nazis who the ‘leadership’ want shut of anyway. Any information gratefully received.

    Nazis?
    Are the EDL just another violent Nazi outfit like Combat 18? No. Despite the far-right’s usual antipathy to plurality and multi-culturalism, the EDL is quite a mixed bunch and not a unified organisation in the least. The EDL is a broad alliance of football hooligans who cannot fight at matches anymore, fascists and angry but directionless youths. Inter-firm rivalries have so far been contained, as they are at most England games, but whether this will continue we shall see. The presence of the EDL youth leader and the Sikh bloke is not unanimously approved of and not everyone who goes on the demos are ‘members’ but casual racists out simply to get pissed and have a ruck. It is these ‘fringe’ elements that ignore the EDL ‘leaderships’ protestations over non-violence and Plod co-operation: once the lager is in full flow they can’t help throwing out the Nazi salutes, having a confab with the cops and breaking out of the kettles and cordons to put a few windows in. The EDL ‘leadership’, media savvy as they are, get into a flap about this and keep reiterating that they are ‘not racist.’ Which we all believe.

    The BNP have proscribed the EDL but there is firm evidence of BNP members attending demos. Combat 18, after the central London fracas are not speaking to the EDL until they say sorry. The microscopic BPP, who are centred round Yorkshire will no doubt be putting their gluebags down and hobbling along to the forthcoming Bradford venture. The Aryan Strike Force is still reeling from the prison sentences handed down to the Newcastle father and son terror-clown act and the likes of Wigan Mike, who has attended many of the EDL demos, is no doubt worried over his oncoming court case in connection with their website.

    The EDL & The Nazis
    Opinion on the various far right forums is divided. The eager ones, hankering after the ‘glory days’ of the BM and the NF, are up for street level confrontation; the older ones are either jealous of the EDL’s numbers, claim state interference or are horrified by the Israeli flag waving and the even more blatant demo at the Israeli embassy this week. The Israeli flag is used to wind up Muslims but some far-righters claim that there is a larger Zionist conspiracy afoot involving Alan Lake who bankrolls the EDL. But there again, they say that about everyone including Nick Griffin so we shall see.

    The Opposition
    The counter-demonstrations have met with various success. That there are schisms on the left is no surprise: we have the respectable and controllable UAF, community groups and the more militant anti-fascists amongst others. Due to the EDL’s political naivety they see all opposition groups as ‘commies’ and Muslim community leaders, Weyman Bennett, SWP and anarchists as one and the same. They do not see that there is as broad a spectrum on the left as there is in their own ranks. This often embarrassing naivety of the EDL also construes that those who oppose them are therefore pro-Muslim which is clearly not the case: what many anti-fascists object to are pissed up gangs of racists coming into their communities to cause trouble.

    The Future?
    The EDL love the ego-boosting publicity (and we are aware that this article will be read by them): many football hooligans keep scrapbooks of ‘victories’ and ‘taking liberties’ and they will no doubt be pleased by the recent BBC3 documentary painting them out to be a significant political force. Although we must not discount the threat, the demos for many are simply the chance to drink, fight and cause a bit of mayhem to enhance their reputations amongst peers. If Bradford goes ahead there will no doubt be serious violence as well as publicity, heavy manners policing and a large bill for the community to cover. Which is exactly what the EDL want. More little pictures for their scrapbooks, more coverage on TV and more war stories to boast about in the pub. Anti-fascists! Organise!

    - ‘Malatesta’

    NB: all material by ‘Malatesta’ is copyright free. Please pass it on to anyone who may find it useful.

  152. aka — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:35 pm  

    @ Clark

    Saw your name and didn’t read on once again, you are wasting your own time, not mine

    @ Jai

    You are off your rocker. What desperate dishonest lengths you go to avoid answering a simple question and actually backing up your fantasy with evidence.

    We both know that I haven’t posted any photos of anyone at all on any other thread but that I posted some photos taken off the internet on this thread showing (with a warning) some stomach churning example of what I had contended earlier:

    “What about all those Muslims screaming for the blood of the infidel? What about all of those Muslims screaming disgusting abuse at British soldiers on British streets? What about all of those home-grown Muslims joining the Taliban and supporting the Taliban by supplying electronic components so they can make IED’s? What about all of them Muslims cutting off peoples heads and posting it online…”

    Now my actual point was that it wasn’t all of them just as it isn’t all of the EDL behind trouble at protests, but then Clark managed to totally miss the point and accuse me of “hate speech” in even saying these things exist, as if they didn’t actually exist in the real world.

    And so I posted a small selection of irrefutable images here to prove him wrong.

    They were removed.

    Maybe that was fair enough, as despite the warning, they were very brutal and gruesome.

    Islamic violence always is.

    But that is all there is to it.

    The crap about “photos of unsuspecting women” are pure fantasy. Pure fabrication. Pure malice.

    All to avoid answering a simple question and all to discredit a commenter who makes you feel very exposed.
    Pathetic.

  153. aka — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:37 pm  

    @ Kismet Hardy

    I know you will fight tooth and nail to avoid the horrible truth that Islam hates the Kafir and oppresses women (not mention lots and lots of other groups who fall foul of the One True God) but above are thier ideas in black and white.

    Those passages above are Islam and they are the word of Allah.

    But we can see the violent contempt, just for women, displayed by a sizeable group of Muslims across Europe with a special focus on areas that they have become a very sizeable group, particularly Scandinavia where, for instance a leading Islamic mufti in Copenhagen, Shahid Mehd stated in a televised interview that women who do not wear headscarves are “asking for rape” which might be dismissed as extremist talk were it not for the fact that 68% of all rapes in Denmark were committed by Muslims.

    Or that a very similar statistic is true in Sweden. Or that 2 out of 3 charged with rape and that every single violent rape in Oslo (over the past three years) fell to non-western immigrants, primarily of Muslim extraction.

    I could keep going.

    Or you could have seen some of the things I said in the comment that Clark doesent understand with your own eyes if those pictures had not been censored.

    Go ahead, tell us that this is not really happening…

  154. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:39 pm  

    Jai’s post @ 150,

    Why has it been edited by a moderator? I know this is a contentious issue and that Jai and I see it differently.

    But really?

    It’s just words in a line.

    I have a deal of respect for Jai, as opposed to aka. I may, it wouldn’t be the first time, be wrong in what I have to say. I am, for sure, unlikely to change my opinions on the basis of censored out remarks. For all I know, they cut to the quick.

    But this is new, censorship of partial comments I mean. And I don’t like new.

    One either favours debate or not, I think.

  155. aka — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:41 pm  

    @ begaree

    Thanks for that cut-and-paste from Harry’s Place but of course it is all a one sided rant that does not even attempt to address reality and both sides of the coin.

    Allow me to give you a small taste of the real situation:

    “More than 30 UAF protesters and three from the EDL have been arrested so far, police said. Two have also suffered minor injuries. A UAF organiser has also been arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit violent disorder.”

    http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/districtnews/districtatog/5074006.Thousands_face_off_in_rally/

    “Anti-fascist protesters have been blamed by police for provoking the violence which broke out as a controversial organisation campaigning against the spread of Islam attempted to hold a rally.

    Several people were hurt, including at least two police officers, and 74 people were arrested as the group Unite Against Fascism (UAF) protested on Saturday against the English Defence League (EDL) rally in Bolton, Lancashire. Assistant Chief Constable Garry Shewan, from Greater Manchester Police (GMP), accused UAF supporters of deliberately inciting violence and attacking officers who were trying to keep the two sides apart.

    “We have seen groups of people, predominantly associated with the UAF, engaging in violent confrontation,” he said. “It is clear to me that a large number have attended with the sole intention of committing disorder and their actions have been wholly unacceptable. They acted with, at times, extreme violence and their actions led to injuries to police officers, protesters and members of the public….

    Of the 74 people arrested during the demonstrations, at least 55 were thought to be from the anti-fascist group, with nine being of EDL supporters.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-blame-antifascists-for-violence-1925038.html

    “”Today in Bolton we have seen some small evidence of this protest in the form of flag waving and vitriolic name calling – but we have also seen groups of people, predominantly associated with the UAF, engaging in violent confrontation.

    “It is clear to me that a large number have attended today with the sole intention of committing disorder and their actions have been wholly unacceptable. Turning their anger onto police officers they acted with, at times, extreme violence and their actions led to injuries to police officers, protestors and members of the public.

    “The police are not and should not be the target of such violence and anger and this protest and the actions of some of the protestors is roundly condemned by GMP and by Bolton Council. Were it not for the professionalism and bravery of police officers many others would have been seriously injured.

    I would also like to praise the efforts of the EDL stewards who worked with us in the face of some very ugly confrontations.”

    Source

  156. aka — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:41 pm  

    “Officers said UAF protesters were responsible for most of the trouble – and the organisation’s joint secretary, Weyman Bennett, was arrested and charged with conspiracy to organise violent disorder.

    Martin Smith, who runs the Love Music Hate Racism campaign, was also arrested…”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259409/Police-attack-right-wing-group-anti-fascists-clash-violent-street-protests.html

    And here is senior UAF figure Martin Smith in trouble with because of violence once again:

    “UAF national officer Martin Smith faces a serious charge following the demo against British National Party leader Nick Griffin’s appearance on the BBC’s Question Time.

    Martin, a national officer of UAF and national coordinator of our sister campaign Love Music Hate Racism, was arrested on the protest and has been charged with assaulting a police officer”

    http://uaf.org.uk/2010/08/model-motion-support-uafs-martin-smith-in-court/

    And here is a dart being thrown indiscriminately into a crowd of innocent people by a UAF:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e90kY-HkN4A&feature=player_embedded

  157. aka — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:42 pm  

    And here is a report about how the UAF threw missiles at the Bradford protest so let’s not pretend they didn’t.

    http://playpolitical.typepad.com/other_uk_parties/2010/08/missiles-thrown-at-bradford-demo.html

    Getting the real picture now?

  158. douglas clark — on 6th September, 2010 at 7:44 pm  

    aka @ 152,

    I read that you hadn’t read what I have to say.

    Jolly good, you closed minded idiot.

    I don’t post here because of people like you mate. I post here despite people like you.

  159. Jai — on 10th September, 2010 at 3:36 pm  

    The crap about “photos of unsuspecting women” are pure fantasy. Pure fabrication. Pure malice.

    Actually it’s pure fact, confirmed with electronic evidence. The three posts involved, posted at 4.35pm, 4.50pm and 4.51pm on 29th August 2010, are still in the Trash folder of this website’s editorial system. As PP’s entire editorial team can confirm.

    It’s a little pointless denying something when there is actually hard electronic evidence confirming it.

  160. douglas clark — on 11th September, 2010 at 2:51 am  

    aka @ 160,

    Saw your name and didn’t read on once again, you are wasting your own time, not mine

    Sound familiar?

    I am, of course, referring to the utterly brilliant insight in your post @ 152.

    Pure fucking genius.

  161. douglas clark — on 11th September, 2010 at 3:06 am  

    So, right back at ya, sunshine.

  162. Jai — on 11th September, 2010 at 10:51 am  

    No, it is pure malicious fiction. Demented in fact.
    I know it, you know and anyone honest at the ‘PP’s entire editorial team’ knows it too.

    On the contrary, PP’s senior editor Sunny Hundal himself removed the posts concerned from this thread. And they are still in the Trash folder of this website’s editorial system.

    Irrefutable electronic evidence doesn’t lie.

  163. aka — on 11th September, 2010 at 3:18 pm  

    @ Jai

    You need help, Jai. You really do. It’s all in your fevered imagination. It didn’t happen.

    And no one in their right mind here believes you.

    I haven’t posted any images other then the ones described at #152.

    Normal people know why you are making it up Jai; even if not everyone will say it to your face, lest they feel they are supporting the “enemy” aka a dissenter.

    And it doesn’t look like Sunny Hundal is prepared to lie for you either to back you up in your malicious flights of fantasy. Or anyone else here on the “entire PP editorial team” for that matter.

    And it would be a lie. Because I haven’t posted anything other then the images described at #152.

    I have a lot of respect for that they haven’t indulged in this nasty exercise of twisted deceitful discreditation.

    Initially I expected the usual universal joining of hands in the underhanded nasty tricks rather then debate, but that hasn’t happened. A few have smeared me without substance, but all have really exposed for themselves for the hateful biased types they are.

    You stand uniquely alone here as the epitome of the real debased, dishonest, shoddy and corrupt extreme left.

  164. Jai — on 12th September, 2010 at 10:53 am  

    What a vivid imagination. It almost sounds as though “Aka” actually believes everything he’s saying.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world…..

    PP’s senior editor Sunny Hundal himself removed the posts concerned from this thread. And they are still in the Trash folder of this website’s editorial system.

    Irrefutable electronic evidence doesn’t lie.

  165. Rumbold — on 12th September, 2010 at 1:40 pm  

    Right, this is pointless.

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