Sunny, you can close it for me.

either way guys, I don’t think a conversation on GG is really that conducive. I don’t like him but I don’t think he’s a major or influential enough figure to warrant any discussion. Hence my lack of posting on the guy. Most Muslim events I’ve been to, even Muslims say they think he is an opportunist. I know Arif doesn’t, but then Sid does. Either way, he is not going to be the man to change things for the better IMO. That is my opinion anyway.

So I’d like to close this thread, if thats ok?

My concern is much more that we can be fooled, mobilised, moulded through misconceptions and falsehoods.

In the scale of things, we have unleashed massive injustices on parts of the world based on lies from ’statesmen’, and we can spend so much energy to prove George Galloway untrustworthy.

In a similar vein George Galloway gets thrown out of the Labour Party for challenging these untruths. He could have said, damn got go find another job. But he didn’t, he challenged Blair on his own terms. Just as he went on to do the same with the Senate. I admire that.

“But you know exactly how character assinations happen.”

Ironically that is what is happening right here in this very thread.

When it comes to elections, I can tell you politics is a nasty business. What would be very interesting is what both sides were doing. After all it was the key seat for Blair.

I seem to recall there were a lot of complaints about malpractice in some wards.

In any case – my bottom line is I don’t accept things on face value. Never have done.

okay the public seems to speak what ever the Sun says, is it true?

“I don’t know Sahil. Presumably you mean a drama production?”

I wish, then I’d never need a journalist! Or at least a Perve EYe ,

Look all I’m simply saying is that this guy was in charge of a campaign that really targeted OOna King personally. That times article i linked showed something. I’m trying to find something more substantial, except one’s word, but he did target her in many ways. Laugh if if you want. But you know exactly how character assinations happen.

Whether or not it was – the public seemed to have spoken.

“Can you seriously tell me there was not a play on this? There was and it was nasty!”

I don’t know Sahil. Presumably you mean a drama production? If there was, let me know. I would be interested in watching it.

[Before I do go out booking seats, can you tell me what it was about? And how nasty, I am a bit squeamish.]

I think I’ve laid out my thinking on GG – quite clearly. If there is evidence that would change my mind (and many other minds) lets see it. None has been presented so far (and I am sure there are many sharper well-funded minds that have attempted than just those on here), and I think we may be heading in the same direction with Hizbullah.

When I first threw my lot in with PP – Rohin (not seen him for a while, wonder where he is) actually made an allegation about Iraq funding and GG. I reminded him that it could be libel, and the response was if I wanted more information on it, there was plenty of it on HP.

I did not find any, it was the usual hearsay.

This was to do with the Senate allegation about GG gaining lots of barrels of oil, well after he’d demolished that Senate C’ttee on his visit to Washington. I’ve not heard another word about it.

So, we can continue in the same vein or put up something factual.

We can generate plenty of heat here.

Glad to see we are all resolutely avoiding this turning into an I/P discussion.

Didn’t quite stop it being one on GG – but what the heck.

“It statements like that Anas that lead me to believe that the anti-terrorism unit will be giving you an early morning wake up call.”

Surely that cannot be the basis for a debate? make your minds up – democratic debate, civil liberties or …?

Agreed! Anas, most Lebanese friends of mine hate Lizbullah. They just want to get on with their lives. You have a life, why can’t they?

It statements like that Anas that lead me to believe that the anti-terrorism unit will be giving you an early morning wake up call.

One concern I have is how can we know whether we are listening to genuine supporters and not rogue elements or even plants?

As for whether GG disowned the offenders, I would need to look it up. Or even ask him direct on his radio show (joking).

One thing that did surprise me listening to him one Saturday (I think probably the same program as the clip offered up by Ravi) was that despite the huge fuss about him playing identity politics, most of his support came from ‘white’ voters (60%). So I find it harder and harder to believe the first thing I hear.

In general, my view is that the only way to attribute views to a person is when they’ve actually said it. What you make of what they say will vary from each of our perspectives. Something I said, upthread, in response to bbrain – its the outcomes we want that will determine what we make of a given set of facts.

Clearly the same facts are a gift for some, and a point of contention for others.

The conservatives are talking to Aayan Hirsi-Ali.