Given that you readily admit to saying things only “tongue in cheek”. Is it fair to say that you have nothing sensible to say and are making up things as you go along?

http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=21601

I thought Pipes said properly monstrous things in a soft voice, and many there who i spoke to agreed.”we didn’t run out of bullets in vietnam….we ran out of will”
This is a man who thinks there wasn’t enough american carnage in southeast asia, after 1-3 million vietnamese deaths, chemical weapons causing birth defects to this day, 50,000 plus US soldiers dead in combat and 180,000 US vietnam vets committing suicide in the years since the conflict….. but not enough blood spilled in Pipes’ opinion. Good God!

both Murray and Pipes arguments rely heavily on complete ignorance of contemporary history or geopolitics to sound credible. It’s as if Rebuilding Americas Defences, the grand chessboard, Vision 20/20, and the US National security strategy 2002 were not available, mostly for free, on the web. Can’t work out whether these guys are just completely ignorant or consciously lying about geostrategy. All you need is a map, for pete’s sake

The debate was exciting because of the mix of constituencies but the pro-zionist lobby was clearly robust. (before you complain, listen to the recording. it’ll be obvious)

Also, Ramadan is as good as it gets for both Muslims and Non-Muslims as a bridge between Western liberal discourse, Muslim moderates and Brotherhood-esque radicals. He speaks all the languages and is therefore your classic man for all seasons. Personally, I think he’s excellent.

Which source(s) would that be?

i don’t like the sound of his “communitarian politics” accusations, but then again an awful lot of people engage in that kind of tactics against jews in public life, not just muslims and not just in france.

as for “tawhid” – that is something all monotheists believe in and i myself support a better accommodation than we currently have between religion and society. i also don’t see it as necessarily a bad thing that muslims should see themselves as “leaders in the spiritual redemption of the west” – it just depends on how that is done.

i think my jury’s still out until i hear from a source i can really trust.

b’shalom

bananabrain

“What is clear from Ramadan’s writings is that, for young Muslims, integration into western society as it exists is not an option. He refers to the concept of tawhid, faith in the unity of God, which he sees as a universal value. It is the west that has to be integrated into this totality. In other words, he does not see Islam adapting to local conditions – as is the case with many more progressive Islamic thinkers such as Mohammed Taleb or Malek Chebel – but as an extension of the “house of Islam” into the land of the unbelievers. Muslims in Europe should not consider themselves a minority in alien territory but as leaders in the spiritual redemption of the west.”
http://www.newstatesman.com/200406210020

Funny ideas on integration. More to the point can all of his critic be wrong?

“Sheikh Al Banna rejected Balfour Declaration and saw that Britain broke its pledges of liberation and independence with the Arabs, and he expressed his anger over the British repressive policies, quelling freedoms, intimidating civilians and banishing leaders, and he declared his solidarity with Haj Amin Al-Husseini the leader of Palestine”

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/Home.asp?zPage=Systems&System=PressR&Press=Show&Lang=E&ID=5835

Listen to the content, Ramadan is as far from the dictatorship-mindset of Hajj Amin al Husseini as can possibly be.
Anyway, I still want more proof of Hasan al Banna’s or his son’s support for the Husseini policy on the Jews.
Could anyone point some out?

b’shalom

bananabrain

i’m not at all clear what tariq ramadan’s ever done to support the brotherhood. i mean, i know he’s the grandson and everything, but i’ve never seen anything he’s written that would indicate he supports its aims. qaradawi, on the other hand, is completely convincing as the “so-called moderate”; and to describe livingstone as “suicidal” is probably true, albeit he’ll probably manage to weasel his way out of it, unfortunately.

b’shalom

bananabrain

Could you please provide proof that Hasan al Banna wrote love letters to Adolf Hitler?