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  • Technorati: graph / links

    West Yorkshire police wants Bradford EDL demo banned


    by Sunny
    17th August, 2010 at 6:36 pm    

    According to Hope Not Hate:

    In a strongly worded statement, the police say they believe the risk to public order is enough to warrant a ban on the racist march. This will be the first time any police force has applied for a ban since the EDL tried to march in Luton in summer 2009.

    Bradford City Council will now formally request a ban from the Home Secretary and a decision will be announced early next week.

    I’m still torn on this. It is very likely the EDL will deliberately try to stir up trouble, go on a rampage and destroy property. They are a bunch of thugs, no doubt about it. But it’s not a certainty, and I’m loathe to agree with every police demand for a ban, especially since they call for bans far too often.

    In actual fact, part of the reason why the march should go ahead is because Unite Against Fascism are doing a good job of organising a peaceful counter-demonstration that brings people together called ‘We are Bradford’. This is the kind of civil society response I was hoping for.


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    1. sunny hundal

      Blog post:: West Yorkshire police wants Bradford EDL demo banned http://bit.ly/cHOd8C


    2. Tim Phillips-White

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: West Yorkshire police wants Bradford EDL demo banned http://bit.ly/cHOd8C


    3. Richard Carrington

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: West Yorkshire police wants Bradford EDL demo banned http://bit.ly/cHOd8C


    4. Moawia Bin-Sufyan

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: West Yorkshire police wants Bradford EDL demo banned http://bit.ly/cHOd8C




    1. Luther Blissett — on 17th August, 2010 at 6:48 pm  

      In the event of rumours being spread saying EDL have struck at a community, creating fear and visceral response from fasting teens at a time of great tension, the UAF will have no hope in hell of being able to prevent any of their crowd breaking away, despite their seemingly good intentions.

    2. RickB — on 17th August, 2010 at 7:19 pm  

      When the EDL painted a W on their acronym and came to N. Wales the alternative community festival was a brilliant success and a very good answer to their dumb, drunken football firm led hate fest. So I think Bradford and UAF are right to move towards this strategy, putting on a celebration with entertainment will always trump a grim, boozy, balaclava convention. The EDL are not really having a protest, they are deliberately targeting areas they feel are too diverse for their tastes, so showing them people having a good time together not only will beat their numbers but will answer very clearly that their racism is a minority interest for losers. I hope some well known names volunteer for these gigs too.

    3. Alan Harper — on 17th August, 2010 at 7:39 pm  

      The EDL are demonstrating against Militant Islam. The EDL are supporting diversity. It’s Militant Islam who are the fascists. Militant Islam wants Sharia Law in the UK which condones the stoning of women and the execution of gays.

    4. Lydia Forsyth — on 17th August, 2010 at 7:39 pm  

      …and the UAF are angels? Most of the time, its the UAF that starts the violence!

      As far as Islam is concerned, their goal has been met. They have managed to kill Free Speech in the West. Next step, convert everyone to Islam.

    5. Luther Blissett — on 17th August, 2010 at 7:46 pm  

      They won’t be able to see others having a good time from the confines of their pen.

      You make it sound as though there are people currently supporting EDL who might be won over by the vision of lots of out-of-town UAF supporters and a few local supporters having a nice picnic in Bradford.

      It won’t win any of them over at all - it’s not part of their mindset to think like that. At this stage, most of the people who thought the EDL were only against extremism have left. The EDL are against everything that makes being a Muslim a Muslim (Friday prayers, religious diet).

    6. Luther Blissett — on 17th August, 2010 at 7:48 pm  

      Lydia - you’re supportive of EDL’s anti-Islam agenda?

    7. Soso — on 17th August, 2010 at 7:52 pm  

      Is this the same UAF that indulges its anti-semitism by marching shoulder to shoulder with the Mo-Bros and other Far Right islamists during “Al Quds” day?

      If so, they’re united against something, but it sure ain’t fascism.

    8. Luther Blissett — on 17th August, 2010 at 8:18 pm  

      Is this the same Alan Harper who thinks BNP are not racist, and who posts images where the shadow of a Muslim family has had a gun added?

    9. Sunny — on 17th August, 2010 at 10:05 pm  

      and the UAF are angels? Most of the time, its the UAF that starts the violence!

      Rubbish. EDL supporters are too damn predictable.

    10. loonywatch — on 17th August, 2010 at 11:49 pm  

      Alan Harper
      “Militant Islam wants Sharia Law in the UK which condones the stoning of women and the execution of gays.”

      and only militant bigoted loonies with no grasp on reality believe such people , who represent a tiny minority of a small minority (Muslims make up about 2% of the UK population) will ever achieve this.

      So what are you marching against? You may as well march in protest at the earth being invaded by little yellow pixie men.

    11. Barbarossa — on 18th August, 2010 at 4:24 am  

      can’t handle the truth, do us a favour don’t call yourselves leftwing or progressives, you’ll give those
      perspectives a bad name.

    12. Barbarossa — on 18th August, 2010 at 4:27 am  

      Muslims constitute approx 2%(2 million)of the UK population, with modest estimates of 10 to 15 percent of that “radicalized”, either out right jihadis, or sympathizers. That’s 200,000 to 300,000 people in the UK with a strong potential for participation in or, facilitation of terrorist attacks in the UK. Worldwide from a approximate muslim population of again roughly 1.5 billion, the radicalized population of muslims climbs above 300 million. The international presence of the muslim brotherhood, and affiliates, with the avowed intention of seeing islamic writ supreme over the globe, with shit loads of gulf oil money backing up the plan. Patience to see a multi-century action through, considering the ihkwan(muslimbrotherhood) began in the 1920?s what’s another hundred years, such an imperial activity becomes easily conceivable.Islam as a religious/ political ideology is the methodology.
      Resistance to it’s proponents in the UK is inevitable.
      Resistance to Fascist ideology, as well, marxist or communist totalitarianisms, inevitable resistance.

      Most people find islamic supremacism as repulsively objectionable as White supremacism, some will act on that repulsion. Opposing a belief system based on the actions of and tenets held by those claiming belief in that system doesn’t constitute any kind of bigotry. Not liking soviet socialism doesn’t make one bigoted toward Russians anymore than being anti-nazi in the 1940?s would make some one racist toward Germans. That’s what, against which, they march.

    13. halima — on 18th August, 2010 at 4:42 am  

      Good. My view is let the people of Bradford decide what level of risk they want to take - not for outsiders to comment on abstract threats to freedom of speech.

      The people of every city will defeat the EDL again and again across the UK.

      Politics isn’t about jumping on abstract bandwagons to protect freedom or all rights, it’s about trade offs. Go and defend civil liberties outside the Houses of Parliaments. Don’t cry about freedom of expression in the streets of Bradford and Tower Hamlets when the EDL come to threaten our diversity and freedom of expression.

    14. Barbarossa — on 18th August, 2010 at 6:33 am  

      Diversity at the expense of native cultures,if a person immigrates to a country with the intention of, or converts to ideology of replacement of native culture by that of the foreign origin, immigrant or native born becomes colonist. Seems a little rich to complain about native british treading a bit of Britain. There are no nogo areas in Britain. Are there?

    15. douglas clark — on 18th August, 2010 at 9:02 am  

      Barbarossa,

      See your estimate of two to three hundred thousand militant Islamists in the UK?

      Where are they?

      You’d have thought that we’d be embattled with them were it true. The streets of every city and town and village would be carnage. What is keeping them constrained? My answer to that question is that they don’t exist, or at the very least not in the sort of exaggerated numbers you predict or fantasise over.

      You are having a laugh, barbarossa, aren’t you?

    16. platinum786 — on 18th August, 2010 at 10:48 am  

      2-300,000 terrorists. If that were true the cowards of the EDL wouldn’t dare step outside their door steps. They back out of every fight, they did at Harrow didn’t they!

      How easy is it to commit a terrorist attack? Not hard at all. You get hold of a gun, some ammo, walk into the local supermarket, start shooting people dead. You don’t have to explode for it to be a terrorist attack. Why isn’t that happening nationwide if there are 2-300,000 terrorists?

      I suspect it’s not too hard to explode either. Fireworks are full of gunpowder, or some sort out powder that goes bang.

      Bag + Nails + bang powder + spark = Bomb

      Don’t see that happening every day either do you?

    17. Roger Thornhill — on 18th August, 2010 at 1:33 pm  

      Come on, Sunny, do you really think the UAF are “peaceful”? They are quite prepared to use force to bully their way. Such a counter demo cannot be classified as “civil society” by any stretch of the imagination if it only occurs as a fig-leaf for the UAF.

      EDL and UAF appear to be as bad as each other.

      @Halima “Don’t cry about freedom of expression in the streets of Bradford and Tower Hamlets when the EDL come to threaten our diversity and freedom of expression.”

      Sorry, does not work like that. The first word in the phrase “freedom of expression” is a clue. Just think of it as a good opportunity to expose thugs as being thugs. Sunlight is nature’s antiseptic.

      Let them rave on, so that others may know them mad. I say this about both sides - Authoritarians can go to hell and I do not care what flag, belief, soil or gene pool they hide behind.

    18. Soso — on 18th August, 2010 at 4:07 pm  

      Alan Harper
      “Militant Islam wants Sharia Law in the UK which condones the stoning of women and the execution of gays.”

      and only militant bigoted loonies with no grasp on reality believe such people , who represent a tiny minority of a small minority (Muslims make up about 2% of the UK population) will ever achieve this.

      “Loonywatch”

      In France, Muslims account for more than 10% of the population. In those areas of the country’s major cities dominated by Muslims, French law has effectively been banned and replaced with sharia. The French police no longer enter these areas because of safety issues, and on the rare occassion when they’re forced to they use troop carriers and their actions are military in style.

      20 years ago French leftists were saying the same things you’re saying now, Loonywatch.

      In the last elections, the country’s once dominant Socialist Party won only 3% of the popular vote.

      I suggest you drop the “watch” part of your moniker…

    19. Golam Murtaza — on 18th August, 2010 at 4:24 pm  

      @Lydia

      “As far as Islam is concerned, their goal has been met. They have managed to kill Free Speech in the West. Next step, convert everyone to Islam”

      If Islam has supposedly “killed” free speech how come bigots like you are free to spout off every five minutes? And I don’t see other Muslim haters like Nick Griffin, Melanie Phillips and Richard Littlejohn clamming up. Or are you tetchy because you can only lurk on the Internet and not openly shout abuse at Muslims in the street?

    20. hackney — on 18th August, 2010 at 6:47 pm  

      Sunny - have you signed the statement supporting the UAF event here?

      http://uaf.org.uk/

    21. Barbarossa — on 18th August, 2010 at 8:03 pm  

      Douglas Clark

      I said outright jihadis and symbathizers, that includes all members of the muslimbrotherhood and the guy who runs the local mosque bookstore that sells the works of sayed qtub and and cd’s of the sermons of awlaki, in addition to the host of islamic supremacist materials.

      How violently active muslims are in a country seems to depend on their demographic presence in a country. Check out the shift from Christian majority to Muslim in Lebannon, some body all ready metioned France. Besides violent conflict is only one way to purse war.
      Watch when muslims in France, or even Britain try and pull a kossovo. People like you will be cursed for what they are idiots.

    22. An Old Friend — on 19th August, 2010 at 12:58 am  

      Soso

      The French police.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGK33rkk6E&feature=related

      “The French police no longer enter these areas because of safety issues, and on the rare occassion when they’re forced to they use troop carriers and their actions are military in style.”

    23. damon — on 19th August, 2010 at 2:50 am  

      To ban or not to ban? - That is the question.
      And I don’t really know the answer.
      Maybe Britain needs a Parrades Commission like they have in Northern Ireland. I’m not that keen on Hope not Hate who just seem to want to simplify the argument to ”sign here to keep the Nazis out” - so maybe this would be better.
      http://www.paradescommission.org/frequently-asked-questions/

      For example, there is one on friday which the commission has laid strict rules about - and this causes people on both sides to get a bit worked up sometimes, but the commission’s decision is final.
      http://www.u.tv/News/DUP-warns-against-Rasharkin-disorder/8d45a782-1d9c-462c-98f5-c41618df3916

    24. Alex — on 19th August, 2010 at 10:42 am  

      “I’m still torn on this.”

      There’s no reason why anyone should be torn on this. You either support the right to protest, or you don’t.

      Yes there could be violence, but protesters, like everyone else, are meant to be innocent until proven guilty. If there’s violence, THEN is when the police should get involved. Not before as some sort of illiberal preemptive strike.

      “They are a bunch of thugs, no doubt about it”

      As I say you shouldn’t be torn on this. Just like you weren’t torn when Iain Dale and others were saying the protesters in Parliament Square should be evicted because they’re Dirty Fucking Hippies or some such.

      How is you talking about “thugs” and Dale talking about “hippies” any different? At least you haven’t come down in favour of a ban, but there’s no reason to be “torn”. Just like there’s no reason why any so-called liberals in the US should be “torn” about a mosque near Ground Zero.

    25. jay — on 20th August, 2010 at 5:31 am  

      @ alex, at least there are a few INFORMED individuals here that maybe do background work into what they talk about (well done for that my friend) EDL are NOT BNP for you misinformed, we do NOT oppose the muslim community ONLY thos that try to change our way of life in OUR country, live here by all means, but that means (as it would if we lived in yours) to abide by our laws and live in a peaceful democrative society, if not then the people of this land (despite our laxidazy goverment does WILL oppose change against the common wish of the british people, its just that many have been afraid to speak out through fear of being called a rascist, well I for one am gonna stand up for this country and this peoples land, and MARCH, not that I wish to go into a community to do so and make them feel feared, I go in peace, but in order to make the rest of the country hear the things going on, we HAVE to make headlines, and unfortunatly downing st doesnt do that

    26. Kismet Hardy — on 20th August, 2010 at 7:20 am  

      “the people of this land”

      The people of this land include Muslims.

      Fail.

    27. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 21st August, 2010 at 12:31 am  

      well I for one am gonna stand up for this country and this peoples land, and MARCH

      Incorrect.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/aug/20/english-defence-league-ban

    28. Barbarossa — on 21st August, 2010 at 1:12 am  

      Some one said, ” rising radicalization of the muslim community will produce a corresponding radicalization in the native British community” and to follow the curtailment of the rights of native Brits, as in the banning of the EDL march will, with the suspention of their right to protest will lead to further violence. I won’t be surprised if arson against mosques spike.

    29. me — on 21st August, 2010 at 1:45 am  

      Barbarossa (name of King who fought in the Crusades against Muslims)
      “, ” rising radicalization of the muslim community will produce a corresponding radicalization in the native British community” and to follow the curtailment of the rights of native Brits, as in the banning of the EDL march will, with the suspention of their right to protest will lead to further violence. I won’t be surprised if arson against mosques spike”

      which in turn will lead to rising radicalization of the Muslim community and so on. Ever wonder why there was radicalization of the muslim community in the first place? Anything to do with illegal invasions of Muslim countries our governments decided to take part in ? Or to you , like all bigots, believe while ANTI-Muslim radicalization has discernable reasons and explanations, Muslim radicalization doesnt.

    30. gwenhwyfaer — on 21st August, 2010 at 3:57 am  

      “converts to ideology of replacement of native culture by that of the foreign origin”

      Yes, indeed. We should none of us forget the despicable invasion of the Romans, bringing their accursed Christianity with its intolerance and its violence and its lies about peace and its celebration of death and its forcing us all to abandon the horned gods of the harvest for its silly totem on a tree.

      …I’m sorry, but I really can’t take seriously the rhetoric of “patriots” who are too bloody ignorant to know what’s native and what isn’t. You’re all quite ridiculous, you’re all abject failures, and on some level you must understand that to be so keen to find someone to blame for it.

    31. Jai — on 21st August, 2010 at 2:56 pm  

      converts to ideology of replacement of native culture by that of the foreign origin

      In which case, it’s curious how the EDL aren’t demonstrating against television stations transmitting American programmes, films and music, cinemas showing Hollywood films, retailers selling American CDs, DVDs, books, and magazines, clothing stores selling American fashion, and restaurants & fast-foot outlets selling American cuisine.

      Given the fact that the United States has been by far the single most dominant foreign cultural influence on British society for more than 40 years, responsible for influencing the most widespread transformation of British cultural norms, and a dominant foreign influence which continues to this day. Hell, there are even American military bases stationed on British soil.

      I guess it’s easier for cowards to attempt to terrorise & intimidate unarmed civilian populations of ethnic & religious minorities than it is for them to grasp their own hypocrisy and the glaringly obvious flaws in their arguments.

      So much for the “brave defenders of native culture against replacement by that of foreign origin”.



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