CBB controversy is now over the top because…
Let me start by saying I’m not a fan of Jade Goody and the trio of chavs on Celebrity Big Brother picking on Shilpa Shetty. At the least they are bullies and at the most a bunch of ignorant and racist dimwits. Big deal.
If anything I have more reason to be aggrieved than most given that when I was young and came to this country most people also mimicked my Indian accent. Except it was mostly other Indians who did this, not white or black people. Have many of you already forgotten the British Asian attitude towards ‘freshies’? I had to work hard to dumb down my English and change my accent to fit in.
Anyway, that hypocrisy aside I believe there are other reasons why this farce is being blown out of proportion.
1) Jade Goody is consumed as a celebrity because she is a spectacle and provides entertainment, not because people look up to her (to what talent exactly?) or because she has any redeeming features. So I instantly reject the first argument that because she is a faux-celebrity, somehow her behaviour will be emulated by millions of people. Remember the hugely popular BB winner Nadia the transexual? I didn’t see people rushing out to emulate her lifestyle afterwards. Remember the guy with the tourette’s syndrome who won last year? Tourette’s hasn’t suddenly become the “in-thing”.
This farcical idea that if people emulate anything and anyone they see on TV is getting tired now, especially when it applies to racism. People have instead seen the bullying and bitching by the trio and been repelled by their actions. They have been condemned by pretty much everyone. I think it’s safe to say that people will see it as an example of behaviour not to emulate.
2) Shilpa Shetty has survived far bigger bitch-wars in Mumbai, even if you don’t follow Bollywood. She is also an actress who knows that crying on television, which she has to do every film, instantly brings you sympathy. Put two and two together people! Don’t think there isn’t an element of acting here. She has been paid over a £100 grand to star in the show. I think she can handle this.
3) CBB is entertainment and people should see it as that, not a narrative on modern Britain for fuck’s sake. Channel 4 has deliberately picked loud-mouthed people who are willing to play bitchy just to attract attention. It has then put them under stress, denied them food, keeps them under constant supervision and makes them do idiotic tasks. Its producers constantly manipulate contestants and put them in tricky situations so that arguments will break out. That is their job and I have spoken to reality tv exec producers who admit all this. THIS IS NOT REALITY! It’s a spectacle. Get over it already.
4) Jack did not call her a “Paki”, he called her a “cunt”.
5) A wise person once said - let the person who has not sinned cast the first stone. Similarly, let the Asians who are not racist against other races or xenophobic against other religions complain. I know their numbers aren’t that large.
6) If there is someone to blame, it is Channel 4 for creating this spectacle, for viewers to continue watching it, and for Carphone Warehouse to continue sponsoring it. And I blame Keith Vaz for tabling the EDM and making it into a bigger piece of farce.
I will continue adding more points as they come to me.
Erm, I’ll be on BBC 4 (TV) and BBC Worldwide tonight at 8pm and on Asian Network (radio) tomorrow 9am saying the same.
If anyone wants effigies of me to burn let me know and I’ll be happy to oblige.
I don’t think this will put an end to it.
It been nothing but racism this week CBB, Dispatches even Janet Street-Porter got in on the act. It all getting very Father Ted.
You know - you’re really right about Indians who have been here for a longer time being a lot harder on the newbies. I’ve been facing it for a year and a half now. And nothing humiliates me more than someone of my own colour picking on my accent, my clothing, my choices…
Sorry this IS bigger than CBB. This is about the 3 biggies: Class, Race and Celebrity Culture
The class and race dispute between Shilpa vs The Drongos is part of the issue. But its more than that.
See those bozos in the picture? They are FANS of a CELEBRITY. This is about a collision of what celebrity culture means in the modern age in this country and in India.
Salman Rushdie couldn’t have dreamt this one up.
I would say that it reflects the wider ignorance amongst certain people of what it means to belong to an ethnic group or to come from a different culture.
The coven of three have continually dismissed the activities of Shilpa as being a ‘cultural difference’. Why does she undercook food? Because that’s how they do things in India. Why does she insist on putting her fingers into food? Because that’s how Indian’s eat - with their hands and not with cuttlery like ‘civilised’ people.
In a time where there are now second and third generation British Asians, is this level of ignorance not shocking?
It may not be outright racism, but it is ignorance tinted with racist elements.
Having said all of that, I am surprised that the Indian government has said that it will be looking into the matter with some depth. Surely they have better things to do than to politicise this and sour diplomatic relations with Britain over the fact that an actress is being bullied by ignorant young white British women…
And, Sunny, imitating the individual suffering from Tourette’s became very popular over the summer, especially amongst teenagers. So don’t be surprised if teenagers do something similar with Shilpa either.
I’ve not denied their ignorance is annoying and their cheap jibes rankle. But they’re not going to kill me are they? The assumption is that these jibes will then be emulated by other people - that I think is the false assumption.
Sid,
My god, I think you’ve hit on something. With politicians despised and religion in decline (I can dream, can’t I?) rival celebrity factions could shape the conflicts of the 21st century. Hordes of neurotic middle-aged women marching through London with placards demanding ‘Behead those who insult Robbie Williams’, awards ceremonies held in a secure Green Zone, Dochertymossians demanding the right to shoot up on public transport or we shall face the consequences.
The nightmare begins.
If anything I have more reason to be aggrieved than most given that when I was young and came to this country most people also mimicked my Indian accent.
Umm… i’m facing an exactly opposite situation. Its been over six months in India and i still have people mimicking my accent! Bloody hell… i’ll never give it up for bastardised RP that these South Bombay punks speak.
They won’t kill you but the jibes already exist when you take a bus down hackney, tower hamelts etc. So nothing new there. But I thought racism is offensive - or is there something less offensive about it because pee-grade celebs do it? And as a broadcaster with some public service ethos that should be stopped. I thought there were rules in CBB about abuse.
Anyways, I don’t think the pee-celebs are being horrible to Shilpa for being Asian. Plain jealousy, it’s killing them to compete with a gorgeous girls - and yes, too , right, Asian celebs or ordinary Asian girls on the street are more attractive. They know it, and so do their men.
Surely they have better things to do than to politicise this and sour diplomatic relations with Britain over the fact that an actress is being bullied by ignorant young white British women…
You bet…. thankfully though Aishwariya-Abhishek marriage thingy is the big news here than CBB!
BTW Jade Goody’s page on Wikipedia has been been the most vandalised entry in last 24 hrs! Loads of anons from India!
“The nightmare begins”
Oh, I dunno Don. Surely it can’t be less fun than religion or politics?
Word on the street is it’ll be a Jade/Shilpa celebrity deathmatch as they’ll be nominated together for eviction. Sooner the better really, it’ll hopefully put the whole thing to bed and I can return to maintaining a veneer of superiority by ignoring the damn show.
It’s unfair to compare Jade to the tourettes bloke. He publicised probably the most amusing disease known to man, she’s an ignorant no-mark.
Though I admit I can’t remember his name either. Ignore me.
For crying out loud, it’s not that they’ll start emulating because they show it on a TV show
It’s that they already have these prejudices and will feel less restraint when taking it out on the streets… because they saw it on a TV show
If it’s acceptable on the box, these people that don’t (groan) think outside the box will think it’s okay
Intellectualise this all you want, this is about people who don’t philosophise on higher matters
They think: darky, wanna make fun of her, can’t… hang on, Jade’s done it… I can
If CBB is like a zoo in a jungle, the animals outside need to see that the ones inside aren’t free to get away with things they can’t
I am surprised that the Indian government has said that it will be looking into the matter with some depth. Surely they have better things to do than to politicise this and sour diplomatic relations with Britain over the fact that an actress is being bullied by ignorant young white British women…
Yep like banning YouTube… http://news.netscape.com/story/2007/01/14/youtube-could-be-banned-in-india-due-to-this-video
Heck if this is was Lefty heaven is like, gimme Hindutva nutjobs anyday…
Except it was mostly other Indians who did this, not white or black people. Have many of you already forgotten the British Asian attitude towards ‘freshies’? I had to work hard to dumb down my English and change my accent to fit in.
They used to be called TP’s(typical pakis) at secondary school up here by second/third gen immigrants, although obviously I never indulged in such named calling.
They think: darky, wanna make fun of her, can’t… hang on, Jade’s done it… I can
Kismet - as opposed to people thinking, ‘hold on that idiot Jade Goody was doing that and everyone said it was despicable so I shouldn’t do it’?
It is obvious Jade looks like the idiot here. I think this is actually a good line in the sand to show what isn’t acceptable behaviour.
Maybe British Asians will now stop fucking doing it too, to other recent arrivals like Neha (hello love!).
Anas
Has your life really been that bad? Do you remember the last time that you were happy?
Asians mocking Asians is hardly news. Every actor that ever put on a bud bud accent stands accused of this. The acting fraternity did their best to change that stereotype
We’re still talking about what’s put on television
None of us can change what happens behind closed doors. Be that an Asian racist hating other Asians or white ones
Fact is: there has been racism on television. The Asian community (for once) united to condemn it.
Give me hysteria over apathy any day
“Kismet - as opposed to people thinking, ‘hold on that idiot Jade Goody was doing that and everyone said it was despicable so I shouldn’t do it’?”
Agreed. But that’ll be the intelligent ones
We’re talking about the pondlife here. The ones that’ll bully my kids in the streets
The keyword is: “everyone said it was despicable”
I’m glad nearly everyone said it, is all
“Intellectualise this all you want, this is about people who don’t philosophise on higher matters”
Knowing quite a few (cretins, not philosophers), their not philosophising on higher matters is the root problem. And it seems it’s insoluble. Some people just don’t want to know, don’t car and the more you try and force higher matters down their throats the more they’ll hate you for it.
They feel seen by philosophers as inferior, yet they themselves feel superior. Which of course gives them a lovely victim complex whereby anyone who can say words like philosophy is always out to get them.
*wave* Sunny.
I wonder if it has something to do with change in employment trends in the Asian community. More and more non-Asians have to deal with Asian bosses in professional sectors - even in sacred City of London quarters. There’s a certain class aspect that probably needs some deeper insight - I said this in a comment on my own blog - but will repeat it -
“When it comes to racism - things are complex. It’s not as linear as it is made out to be. I’ve found sometimes that the most racist people in Britain are people of South Asian origin who have been brought up here. They would like to believe that India is cool - that it is indeed a brimful of Asha - but confronting the new immigrants challenges that hipness that the Asian community desires. The obvious Indianness of these immigrants completely upsets their balance of “Indian heritage but British values”. While doing my research on the Indian Diaspora here - I had been here for less than a year - most of my interaction was with people who had been here for varying lengths of time.. and I found myself feeling humiliated by some of their insinuations.
Perhaps it’s in my clothes, my accent, my ability to be easily shocked that betrays my supposed “Indian-ness”. But I wasn’t accepted. Racism from people who share your colour and your history is a little harder to digest and perhaps even articulate..”
Neha, you’ve made me think (it hurts a bit) and I’d like to point my rabid support for Shilpa hasn’t been because she’s an Asian. But because she is the bullied underdog in this instance
If I see a gang of people kicking the shit out of a guy because of his colour, my sympathies will lie with the guy on the ground, whatever his colour
If I look at my Top 10 list of Twats I Know (make one, it’s fun), I’m rather chuffed to notice there are all races and creeds represented
We’re talking about the pondlife here. The ones that’ll bully my kids in the streets
What pondlife are we talking about here? Some people will always be BNP sympathisers regardless of what Jade Goody says. And I’ve known many uneducated white working class men to be among the least racist around. People who believe in local community solidarity with anyone regardless of colour.
This idea that there will be more racists just because someone interviews Nick Griffin or Jade Goody says she doesn’t like Indians is so 1980s.
Neha wrote: ““When it comes to racism - things are complex. It’s not as linear as it is made out to be. I’ve found sometimes that the most racist people in Britain are people of South Asian origin who have been brought up here. They would like to believe that India is cool - that it is indeed a brimful of Asha - but confronting the new immigrants challenges that hipness that the Asian community desires. The obvious Indianness of these immigrants completely upsets their balance of “Indian heritage but British values”.”
Interesting thoughts. I’m an English immigrant to Spain of some 12 years standing, and I can speak the language and even drive like a native when I have to. I do feel a sense of shame at the number of my peers who make no effort to fit in with culture here, but it’s shame rather than contempt. Yup, I just checked and I’m pretty sure of that.
The image thing isn’t shame or contempt, more irritation. The traditional Spanish view of the English tends to be either unflappable bowler-hatted gents willing to fight totalitarianism wherever they find it, or drunken tattooed psychotic blue-arsed pirates and hooligans. What irritates me is the reality of fat pasty slobs with an East German dress sense. Bit of a let down for both me and the Spanish.
hey… i’m facing the converse. As a British Asian reshipped back to India. I’m in similar position as Neha’s! Everyone has something to say about me, be it about my accented Hindi or outlandish Midland brawl. I get Angrez catcalls at school, cabbies charge me twice the fare! For some reason people find it funny to mouth Hindi curses at me, thinking my accented Hindi implies poor command of the language.
She has been paid over a £100 grand to star in the show
I have read reports of the amount being anywhere between 300,000 and 600,000 punds
“Neha, you’ve made me think (it hurts a bit) and I’d like to point my rabid support for Shilpa hasn’t been because she’s an Asian. But because she is the bullied underdog in this instance”
Then what we’re seeing is bullying rather than racism. Though of course racism is a form of bullying. Made me think too, but I don’t think it turned out too well. Bugger. Whatever - it raises the problem that the Indian government isn’t going to do itself many favours demanding an apology for an Indian being bullied in a foreign TV show that’s basically largely about bullying.
And you’re fooling nobody Kismet, we all know the
oops
*we all know the real reason for your rabid support of Shilpa.
“This idea that there will be more racists just because someone interviews Nick Griffin or Jade Goody says she doesn’t like Indians is so 1980s.”
Brickwall.com
Not saying there’ll be more racists. But the ones that are, but not hardcore enough to be a BNP thug, might have felt it was acceptable to spout their racism…
You don’t hear people muttering Paki at you in the pub like you did in the 1980s do you?
It’s because our cousins made sure they couldn’t get away with it
A bit like now. Except the swords have been replaced by ofcom
I’m not going to be convinced that Jack didn’t call her something other than a “cunt” until Channel 4 releases the unedited footage, something they’ve refused to do.
I’m with you, um, dot. Amazing how many people are happy to accept an official denial
And this from a site that watches politicians closely…
Post #31… was an intelligent attemot at spamming. Full props to the creators..
Eh?
Shetty has been paid half a million pound for her stint on CBB. Whooping figure should spell out what she’s been placed there to do. It’s a satiating gag; a dramatized display of human emotions at their worst to bring out the most negative in each other. The task at hand was accomplished thanks to Shilpa and Jade on behalf of BB; viewer ship went sky rocket in a span of days. The incident will eventually blow over; CBB makes its money and Shetty goes home with the dough and the additional fame in hand. She’ll get the international movie contract she is after.
‘Kismet - as opposed to people thinking, ‘hold on that idiot Jade Goody was doing that and everyone said it was despicable so I shouldn’t do it’?’
I think you are missing the way this works, which is something like:
1. I have no particular talent or drive.
2. I spent 12 years at an institution that considered me a failure, a waste product to be seperated out from the valuable end product.
3. Jade is like me.
4. People like her, and she has lots of money and stuff.
5. No really bad consequences came from anything she did, and it pissed off a bunch of educated people, who could do nothing about it.
An underclass hero is something to be.
So her victimizing herself a gimmick to get the sympathy she desires.
err… sorry septicisle, mebad…
Soru… booyakasha!
Soru put it much better than me.
Second that. Soru, that’s all I’ve been trying to say all along
Soru problems with no. 4 and 5. I said yesterday that the ‘three witches’ would be destroyed by the media, and to a man (except the FT which has not mentioned the controversy, shit its just on) they have killed any image of Jade and her lackeys. Plus if you head to the C4 forums, 9 out of 10 posts are bashing the three twits and CBB figures are up by 1.1 million in a day. BTW Carphone warehouse is continuing their sponsership and discussing the new summer contract. PLUS keith Vaz looks great, oh boy.
Everyone, except Jade and her biatches, are winners. This was so predictable and followed through perfectly. Still Kismet, i’m very impressed with your campaigning skills
Bravo Sunny
Shame about the publicity in India.
I was getting a little frustrated with our help office in Bangalore this morning when the thought flashed through my head that he might have picked up on the “ugly underbelly of English racism”-type newspaper coverage.
I felt bad and turned ridiculously polite just in case, before i realised what the problem was and slunked away in embarassment.
Anyway, Kizzie, eezy nah! Build up a big one and take a few long tokes
My work here is done
Time to put the gimp suit back on and do the monkey dance
All the Soru says and then some: being rewarded by being made a “celebrity” without having any no talent whatsoever other than being a figure of ridicule.
The whole thing sucks my friends and that’s why this CBB has been so absolutely brilliantly spot on. It’s put celebrity-hood itself in the spotlight.
Well I’d certainly challenge anyone acting the way the BB racists are in real life as indeed I did today when someone agreed that their behaviour was terrible but added ‘mind you, pakis are fuckin manky though’.
It’s just that when 19,000 or whatever it is complain it’s a little bigger than me causing a scene in work. As far as I understand it people are complaining about remarks that were made behind Shilpa’s back, in addition to the frankly disgusting bullying to her face. In other words they’re complaining about behaviour that they themselves find offensive which is why we have Ofcom.
Shilpa comes from a very respectable family and I saw that today in her Mother.
She was so calm and very sensible.
She did not get hyper on excited or incited anyone in any way.
My respects to her mother.
pranam
Er… it just occurs to me didn’t more than a few of us including you Mr Sunny complain about this
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/717
What’s the difference, other than more people being aware of the BB controversy than the former?
The development of this fiasco is really interesting. I was quite offended when Jade Goody’s mother (Jackiey) initially bullied Shilpa for stupid reasons and kept commenting that she had no time for “the Indian” and then making no effort to learn her simple 2-syllable name and asking her if in India she lived “in a shack” all which I find demeaning and border-line rascist for her unwillingness to pronounce Shilpa’s name correctly (something that older British Asians will find even more offensive, as it brings back memories of 1970’s rascism)
But, what was more shocking is that nobody in the house corrected Jackiey, or even stated that it was wrong or that it was rude. Then Davina and the audience laughed when she called Shilpa ‘the Indian’ in public live when she came out of the house. Nobody corrected her, Davina didn’t say a thing! and people like me sat there thinking WTF?
So, though the numerous rude incidents by the 3 witches and Jack might not be (all) overtly rascist, the situation should be understood in context, and when you take a long hard look at how she has been ostracized and commented on by the 3 British girls, it does display blatant undertones of rascism that should not simply be left unnoticed.
I find myself in agreement with Kismet, I’d prefer a public outcry over apathy and silence anyday.
Great post Soru, I have met a lot of people like that.
[...] The racism controversy surrounding the reality TV show in UK - Big Brother finds a lot of blogs picking up the issue. Pickled Politics has a thriving comments thread with reflections on racism and bullying, and Shoefiend says “While they’re definitely being ignorant, stupid and mean, the fact that the person on the receiving end of all this is brown adds a racial undertone to the entire thing.” Neha Viswanathan [...]
haha this is fucking crazy… Jade Goody article at wikipedia has been vadnalised more than 50 times in past 2 days! tell meh kismet it wasnt you…
http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,1992029,00.html
Jermaine Geer hits the nail on the head…
#17, Glasgow is a pretty miserable place for anyone to live, ZZ. That’s why people drink so much up here.
That’s the reason why I’m such a miserable, depressing, sometimes incoherent bastard. Cause I’m a Glaswegian!
And nothing humiliates me more than someone of my own colour picking on my accent, my clothing, my choices
Anyone remember that Goodness Gracious Me sketch where Meera Syal asks this really badly dressed Asian guy if he’s going to the 70’s revival disco, and he replies that he’s just come off the boat from Bangalore (or someother Indian city I can’t remember)?
It’s certainly a good read.
But it bugs when she declares “Britain is a racist country” as if it was somehow more racist than others.
I don’t want to send this discussion on a tangent, but why do antipodean writers do that? I don’t buy it.
In some respects, Britain is far further along the road of race relations than most countries.
A white British jury would never have acquitted the police officers in the Rodney King case, while a non-white British jury would never have found OJ Simpson innocent.
A mob of religion A isn’t likely go on the rampage killing hundreds of people of religion B after an atrocity blamed on rogue elements amongst them.
Similarly, have-not tribe A isn’t going to try to wipe out all of the tribe B haves.
i’m talking about Germaine Greer btw
That’s the funny thing about this whole furore. Comparatively speaking, Britain is probably one of the least racist places, certainly in Europe, probably in the whole of the West. I mean, the level of anger at Shilpa’s treatment is probably testament to that.
Similarities between Jade, Danielle and Shilpa: all three speak with “funny” accents.
Differences between Jade, Danielle and Shilpa: one of them could probably write a long article (in English) about her BB experiences WITHOUT it being full of spelling mistakes and appalling grammar, whereas the other two almost certainly could not.
No prizes for guessing who the “thick” ones are. Basically the two that I am referring to are not very bright individuals and should be pitied, laughed about, and ignored.
Just heard Shilpa haughtily condemn the UK’s attitude to race relations with “is this where the UK is at in 2007?” Err, Shilpa love, whatever else we are, at least we don’t have massive bloody communal pogroms here where hundreds or even thousands of people are slaughtered because they’re the wrong religion.
Oi Gibs
Why don’t you go fry asparagus (self-censorship at work here) with your ref to funny accents. Class snobbery masquerading as anti-racist indignation methinks.
I think things are going to get worse.
The episode today showed Jade and Co as flat-out lunatics.
Jade, foaming at the mouth exploded in a fit of madness!
and there WERE rascist tones, and Shilpa confirmed she felt race did play a part in all this.
Danielle “she should fucking go home” and laughs…anyone else catch that?
and Jade “go back and rely on her community” what does this mean?
Is it me, is Jermaine Jackson almost as cool as Michael?
I am proud to say that i didn’t watch it tonight. puffs out chest
Anas
Billy Connonelly is Glaswegian regarding post 61 you live in in a city in which Rangers supporters take umbrage at a goalkeeper making a sign of the cross.
Football was on El Cid thank god i don’t support Newcastle.
You’re not a hun then I take it, ZZ?
Jermaine Jackson is a gent and no mistake. I really didn’t expect to like him but I do. Don’t know if anyone caught Danielle expressing regret for what she said at the end of the ‘highlights’ show.
There is a racist element to it all It’s very reminiscent of the treatment dished out to every single Scots-Indian/Pakistani girl I went to school with.
On the whole though whilst Britain has more than it’s fare share of racists and bigots, I do not accept that it is a racist country. There are laws in place to tackle discrimination, pressure groups, public outrage at racist behaviour and so on. None of this makes Britain perfect but it does make it a safer and better place to live than much of the world.
No I am an Evertonian and I take no sides in the sectarian bollocks that obsesses Glasgow a curse on both their houses.
*fare* should be fair -obviously. Damn my lazy reliance on spellchecker!
Anas @ 67
There’s a certain irony that in a discussion relating to bigotted and inappropriate names for you to indulge also.
‘Billy Connonelly is Glaswegian regarding post 61 you live in in a city in which Rangers supporters take umbrage at a goalkeeper making a sign of the cross.’
No Anas and I live in a city where a minority of bigots take umbrage at a goalkeeper making the sign of the cross. The vast majority of people here are indifferent to these things.
Ha, ZinZin, you’ve found me out!
Not hard was it.
Can’t wait for the weekend: Liverpool vs Chelsea, and then the big one, my beloved Gooners vs Man U.
Ooops, just realised this isn’t a weekend open thread
Claiwil wrote: “On the whole though whilst Britain has more than it’s fare share of racists and bigots, I do not accept that it is a racist country. There are laws in place to tackle discrimination, pressure groups, public outrage at racist behaviour and so on. None of this makes Britain perfect but it does make it a safer and better place to live than much of the world.”
How does Britain have more that it’s fair share of racists while maintaining better standards than much of the world? Are we above average or severely lacking?
“Ooops, just realised this isn’t a weekend open thread ”
The open thread got closed. It’s the beginning of the end, I tell ye.
if you thought i was always angry, you should check out suspectpaki (is that racist?) all that hate. shame
Clairwil
Artur Boruc the celtic goalkeeper got a police caution for this expression of faith. The irony is that clubs are Christian.
Oooh,
you bloody pedant, you Mr Preast. I should have written whilst Britain has many racist citizens we’re not all bad and quite good compared to other bits of the world. I didn’t and now I’m exposed as half thing commentator.
Grrrrr!
I’ve actually half-finished a post about my disagreement with scottish nationalism, regional assemblies and an english parliment …im slightly scared* of posting it now
*lies im only procrastinating over finishing it
Kulvinder, here’s some reading material for you:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/01/17/do1701.xml
UK (except Scouserland ofcourse) is certainly not a racist country. I’ve had much more in India and Malaysia!
ZinZin,
Yes I know, but over-zealous Policing has more to do with a bee in Jack McConnell’s bonnet than general public opinion. When my Catholic ancestors came here from Ireland ‘Protestant Action’ were getting 28% of the vote on platform of a Protestant Scotland. If they were to stand for election Tomorrow they’d be lucky to keep their deposit.
I’m well aware of the alleged Christian allegiances of Rangers and Celtic, like most Glaswegians I’m half Catholic, half-Protestant and a whole lot of trouble.
Honestly it’s not that big a deal. I very much doubt it’s significantly worse than football related violence in any other city.
ZinZin @ 77
Artur Boruc was cautioned for his “come ahead” motioning to the crowd.
After the furore the Scottish Crown Office confirmed the above.
Boring I know - but the truth.
It seems Ofcom is unused to such traffic:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/
@ElC… Gooners vs Man U… heck this is the only time i’ll be rooting for you guys.
Boycott the sponsorsits the only way Channel 4 and carphone warehouse will stop profiting from racism
email the carphone warehouse
they make shed loads of cash from Asians
pressoffice@cpw.co.uk
come on you scousers!
@Sid
Yeah see thats the problem, i have to balance my disagreement with the politics of nationalism and point out why regional assembelies won’t increase political connection with the people WHILST not coming across as a rightwing lunatic
cid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsTZd5BPr6s
Here is the whole shoddy episode. I failed to notice a “come ahead” motion. Still the reactions of the rangers fan is beyond belief.
‘the politics of nationalism’
Yes because a country wanting full control over it’s own separate legal system, to reflect it’s own political culture and to quit sponging off the neighbours is so unreasonable. Jesus wept, I hope you’ve read Scottish history.
I’ve watched Braveheart three times.
easy clairwill, keep that powder dry for kulvinder’s big moment
I have yes. Scotland has its own legal system.
Subjected myself to another ten minutes of it just there. Turned it over and forgot how to operate the remote…..
Doh!
Deeply unpleasant viewing. Also seems that Shilpa’s decided to bite which isn’t a great idea. Loved the shot of “The Face” sitting in the garden with his stogie wondering what it was all about. Agree that Shilpa’s probably a tougher cookie than she looks but it don’t make it right. Hurrah for Dirk, Jermaine and H.
It’s the sly, casual stuff rather than the overt abuse that’s taking place in BB, so to a lot of people it’s nothing. Just waiting for Jade to hit the high notes on this one. As for the three stooges, when people lack the articulacy to bring someone down with wit or intelligent arguement, mocking their race, culture or most obvious superficial traits is often the sad outcome.
I’m more shocked at the bullying itself to be honest, the fact that Shilpa cannot win, that her very ‘otherness’ leaves her constantly open to abuse and bile. Unfortunately none of the other contestants are willing to smash Jades face in, so it shall continue. *
* I jest, for those of a nervous disposition.
Or do I?
ZinZin,
You don’t want to watch that tripe as anything more than entertainment. It couldn’t have been sillier if the English had been silent movie style moustache twirlers.
ElCid,
I feel certain I may explode when I see the full article.
Pointing out nationalism is silly has always difficult.
“You don’t want to watch that tripe as anything more than entertainment. It couldn’t have been sillier if the English had been silent movie style moustache twirlers”
Are we talking Brtaveheart or Scottish history?
Kulvinder,
I’m glad you’ve done the historical bit. I’ll look forward to your treatment of the humiliation of being sold off by a corrupt minority elected parliament. I think Scotland has on the whole been very reasonable about the whole thing. However my eyes are always open and I’m certain that you’ll treat the whole Scottish question as more than idiot, ‘regional’ bigotry.
I’ll also look forward to you explaining why the English tax payer should subsidise Scotland, who let’s remember spend far more than they contribute to the U.K.
“Pointing out nationalism is silly has always difficult.”
It was a whole lot simpler when the nationalists painted their arses blue. We call this progress?
Braveheart- obviously. There is a little more to Scottish history than the English.
“I’ll also look forward to you explaining why the English tax payer should subsidise Scotland, who let’s remember spend far more than they contribute to the U.K.”
To be fair both countries had a remarkably influential 3 centuries, so I can’t see why there should be any hard feelings.
“Braveheart- obviously. There is a little more to Scottish history than the English.”
Of course! There’s the French.
A little more than the French too. Keep reading.
The circumstances of the act of union don’t actually bother me all that much, any more than the interaction of the various european interests in india and abroad, its history. Im much more concerned about the present, i fundamentally disagree with the notion of ’scottishness’ ‘englishness’ ‘britishness’ or any nationalism beyond low level adjectives. Independence is fine, the lack of any philosophy beyond nationalism is more…worrying.
They shouldn’t.
ZinZin @ 96
If you’re really that interested - see the following:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1271932006
‘Independence is fine, the lack of any philosophy beyond nationalism is more…worrying’
Fair enough, so you’re writing about a few Tartan Army bigots that hate the English. In that case it might be an idea not to refer to it as Scottish nationalism which is something else entirely.
I’m sure if this is a valid point, but the reason why the Shilpa Shetty incident hits such a wrong note with me is because although the dumbasses in the house probably don’t realise half of what they are saying (Danielle: Did I say that? When asked if she said she wanted Shilpa to go home), it reminds me so much of the awkwardness of when I moved to this country as a kid.
Like being asked if Indians had telephones.
Or being told that they were surprised I spoke good english, when the truth is I spoke and wrote better english than them.
Or being worried that my clothes smelled of curry because the other english kids would poke fun.
For me, this whole incident has brought memories of that back up and unpleasant memories at that. I didn’t like Shilpa before she went in and while I’m not saying I do now, she has my respect because while I tried to hide bits of my culture for fear of being bullied, at least she wears hers on her sleeve.
And yes Sunny, it is a game but these comments hit too close to home.
No im not; ill just write the article.
‘No im not; ill just write the article.’
Well I shall look forward to reading it, though your comments suggest a total misunderstanding of what Scottish Nationalism is based on as well as the political groups it is popular within.
Why does Tony Blair want us to integrate with third rate, third class, scum like Jade Goody, Danielle Lloyd and Jo O’Meara? This is how many of the native community behave. Shilpa has much more class, dignity and respect keep your integration Blair im Indian! not a chav!
I’ll be voting SNP in the coming elections. But not cause I’m a nationalist — I’m pretty indifferent to Scotland’s being independent — rather I want they Labour bastards to get a really good hiding up here because of Iraq, Lebanon, and several other immoral foreign and domestic policy stances.
I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me, and I’m pretty sure a LOT of Scottish Muslims (the majority Asian community up here) will likewise vote SNP for the same reasons. I’ve been telling my family they’ve all got to vote SNP cause Tony Blair’s a total evil bastard and we’ve got a good chance at making Labour pay for their continued support for him.
I’m a native and would no more behave like Jade than you would. Isn’t making assumptions about a whole race based on one or two individuals racist or is that still about ‘power’?
Er, Have you seen Big Tone holding up the Goodys as models?
Good Stuff Anas,
Whatever else an Independent Scotland would be, it would be pretty harmless on the world stage and unlikely to bankrupt itself ‘defending democracy’. Scotland the Harmless- I’m all for it.
post 71, it was my lame attempt at a joke.
Clarwill, post 72, you were replying to ZZ, not me.
‘No, Anas and I live in a city where a minority of bigots take umbrage at a goalkeeper making the sign of the cross.’
I was talking to Zin Zin, I just missed out a bit of punctuation.
Post 71 I didn’t find offensive at all, that was someone else. The humorous tone was obvious to me.
saj makes an interesting point. If by integration you mean Asian and other communities should become more in tune with the majority white community and adopt their customs and behaviours would that include becoming more anti-social, having a greater proclivity to drunkeness, lewdness, disrespect towards elders, foreigners, towards oneself as, well as eating awful flavourless food? Maybe, just maybe, — as BB has demonstrated — whitey has a few things to learn from us. You all can teach us about democracy and tolerance and free speech, and we can teach you manners, respect, and in a few cases, even English.
(This post is written at least half in jest, for all you humourless bastards)
Saj
Jade and her mob are just stupid.
You sir are a racist.
As expected Endemol, Channel 4 and Harry’s Place are hemming and hawing about the veracity of the racist claims.
Did people who saw Danielle Lloyd say
“She could fuck off back home” in the midst of the Jade eruption think it was meant in a racist way.
As in
“She could fuck off back home to India”
harking back to the oldest and purest of the old-school English racist outburst?
No just ignorant, unless you actually believe in a ‘white race’ which would be…odd.
No odder than believing that an insult after the word black is racist then?
Bloody hell this stuff is confusing.
To me no, i don’t accept the existence of a ‘black people’ and find it fairly laughable that the various identities and cultures of Africa can vaguely be lumped together with people living in jamaica and britain to form the ‘black people’. I always prefer to know the region they come from and ideally their specific ethnicity.
Obviously in an ideal (and simplistic) world it would all be based on the ideas you most identified with rather than chance of birth, but since we don’t live in the world im quite careful in how i categorise people. The working class bit in white working class is of most importance as the most dominant socio-economic indicator, i personally add white (or black) as a helpful indicator nothing more.
I am depending on the circumstance a libertarian, a sikh, british, english, from the south, a man. I have never been classified as brown.
I don’t accept the existence of races in the manner you, saj and the informer have.
how would you sum up Jermaine Jackson’s words:
white trash!, is this not racist?…
Bloody hell this stuff is confusing.
I’m confused. The charge of racism could be levelled at those who complained for this years CBB bullying and racism, as opposed to last year’s, simply because of the ethnicity of the victim. (Indian instead of Black-American).
question: why do humans have different color skin tones?
Without accepting the existence of a white race id probably have to draw on the class distinctions of old-skool socialism, whose language though dated (lol means of production lol) is useful in some circumstances.
To put it another way, and just to show how confusing it can be. Black and Asian people call each other Nigger and Paki (or lets assume they do) so the usage of the word (as with all words) has changed with time. If nigger and paki can be used without racial undertones then ‘white’ people can use it.
If a white person had called another white person ‘white trash’ would they basically saying their behaviour was uncouth and uncultured or would die herrenrasse be indicating that they were just, you know, subhuman. Regardless in a similar manner to the above, do we just accept ‘if white people say it to one another it isn’t racist’?
Anas
I’ll give you fucking manners.
(makes come on gesture)
(Or is it the sign of the cross)
“Because god is a practical joker.”
So Bill Hicks was right! ;D Thank Christ for that….
I’m in the same position as Bert in some ways - in that not only have I not watched BB, but I don’t even own a TV - which given the current furore is a path which seems to be recommended.
My vicarious view is that it’s always stocked full of morons of such mean intelligence that suprisingly stupid people can suddenly become the hero of the moment. AFAICT the only person who enhanced their reputation whilst on it was Jack Dee.
Eventually someone will die on BB, and then they might take it off. Chances are, we’ll never be so lucky.
If a side effect of the current round of stupidity is that a certain ’straightforwardness’ as demonstrated by the ‘working class’ is seen as the moronic petty bigotry that it actually is, then perhaps that’s a good thing. Though any good seems to have been out-balanced by sheer idiocy some time ago.
Except it was mostly other Indians who did this, not white or black people. Have many of you already forgotten the British Asian attitude towards ‘freshies’?
The attitude of some of the folks on barficulture itself towards freshies is apalling. I’ve been telling them off for a couple of years now so this whole big bruvva issue is very ironic from a foreigner’s point of view.
Ironic and bloody boring.
*goes to poke flatmates with a stick and watch them gnaw at their own armpits*
[...] The racism allegations surrounding a popular reality television show in the UK - Big Brother appears to occupy a lot of real estate in the blogosphere. Well, regardless of whether the remarks made in the Big Brother house were racist or not, they’ve got the blogosphere talking about racism in all its contexts and people discussing their own experiences as Indians or Brits. The person seen as the victim is Shilpa Shetty, an Indian actor. A thriving discussion at Sepia Mutiny with all kinds of opinions being voiced about “Bigot Brother”. A very active discussion is on at Pickled Politics. From one of the comments Fact is: there has been racism on television. The Asian community (for once) united to condemn it. Give me hysteria over apathy any day. [...]
So Shilpa is taking a dive and crying crocodile tears. Far away from the security home and parachuted into an hostile alien environment. I don’t think so, Sunny, I don’t think so! I’ve just listened to the Chairman of Channel Four on Radio Four and it made for very hard listening because he WASN”T acting either, as the head of an Institutally Racist Media Organisation such as C4. If I was black or asian and working for C4, I’d be looking for new employment elsewhere right now. The treatment of Ms Shetty at the hands of the “Three Musketeers” is a perfect example of the Law of Unintended Consequences. By increasing viewer ratings, C4 may have opened a can of worms which hopefully will come back to haunt them in the very near future. Remember the betrayal of “Black on Black” and
“Asian Eye”. Channel Four haven’t changed, in fact, they have gotten so much worse.
I have never beena big fan of big brother since the first series, at least in that one you had people who were relatively interesting. ow it seriously is just a load of heavily retarded chavs, and I think the worst thing is that by bringnig in an international celebrity and putting her in the vicinity of jade goody is one surely certified way to make england as a whole look like a bunch of wankers.
I think celebrity ‘reality shows’ have had their hayday when this is the best they can come up with, and whichever genius in the channel four team set this farce up is no doubt facing the axe after this has turned into such a nightmare and disguisting reality for the people of england and of india alike.
Tickle Tackle wrote:
“For me, this whole incident has brought memories of that back up and unpleasant memories at that. I didn’t like Shilpa before she went in and while I’m not saying I do now, she has my respect because while I tried to hide bits of my culture for fear of being bullied, at least she wears hers on her sleeve.
And yes Sunny, it is a game but these comments hit too close to home.”
Jermaine Jackson calling Jackie and Co “Poor White Trash” wasn’t has a lot of aggrieved white people suggest a racist comment but rather a statement of fact. We have had to tolerate these intolerable people, day in, day out from day one. Worse still some of these people have grown up to become TV producers, Journalist amd Media movers and shakers, social icons and totally unreformed in their wicked ways. They smile to your face then stab you behind the back. This is what BB as exposed and in the process awakened a latent memory which many of US would rather remain forgotten.
I’m not too sure about the earlier comments about Asians poking fun at other ‘freshie’ Asians ? A lot of my mates have colleagues from India in the companies they work for and they get along fine, and visit each others flats have a few drinks etc. I think that sort of narrow minded attitude fades away a lot once you leave school.
The reaction to BB is perhaps OTT but I would rather that then have under-reaction, its a microcosm of what many Brit-Asians have had to go through here (and are still going through) in education or in the workplace.
I’ve seen it with my own eyes on a work placement a middle-aged Indian lady being mocked by her white boss and being singled out, and it filled me with nothing less then pure rage, especially considering she was my mothers age.
What annoys me is that people are debating whether this is racism or not. She is being singled out because she speaks differently, the way she cooks, the fact that she eats with her hands (and questioning where the hands have been!) and earlier on in the show for ’sucking-up’ to Ken Russell; the 3 girls being blindingly ignorant of the respect shown to elders in Indian culture. Its jealousy as well but clearly with racial undertones.
’m not too sure about the earlier comments about Asians poking fun at other ‘freshie’ Asians ?
I think that sort of narrow minded attitude fades away a lot once you leave school.
Not from my experience and the experience of many I know.
Im not too fussed by it (people think Im ameri-can) but it is ironic.
I think that sort of narrow minded attitude fades away a lot once you leave school.
Not true. I faced this attictude even at the Muslim Council of Britain where the boss, a recent convert to Islam, Sabira Dhami would make fun of me, and it got so worse that even her kids would mock my accent when I would call her at home. I had to call her at home because she was volunatrily work from home. Volunteers being bosses of paid workers, hmmm, amazing isn’t it?
But she was also the wife of the committee’s Director. Can only happen in a religious organisation.
However, it is true that subtle or underlined racist attitude mostly comes from British Asians rather than White educated class.
Even to date, a lot of young British Asian kids from the families I know applaud my “wonderful English even though I am from Pakistan.” Ironic considering I know a lot of people in Pakistan who speak and write better English than most of the British Pakistanis here whose roots sadly emerge from small towns where people cannot even speak national language properly. Is this racism again?
I never got such remark from the English world, maybe for them we are all Brown no matter if our families came seventy years ago or even seven days ago.
I have, however, recieved this comment frequently from my English colleagues.
“You are Asian, how come you are so pale/ white?” Once I was even asked what cream do I use to make myself white.
If only they could go to the NWFP part of Pakistan and even some parts in Punjab, they would meet fair complexions and blonde hair. But it is ignorance, isn’t it?
I have a lot of sympathies with the comments above but I would also say that my own dad regularly calls me a coconut, not to mention everyone I meet in India whenever I go, and my Hindi is pretty good.
Side topic, but quite amusing: A really good friend of mine is from Peshwar, in nothern Pakistan, and he is such a damn liberal but he’s become so paranoid about losing his identity, he’s constantly telling me how conservative he is whilst over beers and south park, and regularly comes out with these brilliant Peshawari sayings. Its a brilliant form of self-delusion, but very funny anyway.
I don’t like Jade However the press are twisting some of the comments. She said to shilpa, you need to go to the slums to get a reality check, NOT go back to the slums. Which would be racist. Jade thinks Shilpa is stuck up. You can see this in the argument they have over stock cubes. when she tells shilpa her head is up her own arse. People who don’t watch it are taking some of the conversation out of context! This is why big brother says it’s not racist; they can see the whole argument and not just parts changed by the press.
These girls are bullies; but big brother has always been this sort of show.
Last year was no different but it didn’t cause the same trouble because the people were all English.
The treatment of shilpa is disgusting however I feel it is a clash of personalities and class more than race. You must all remember jade goody is an ignorant low class person. She is the exact opposite of shilpa who can speak 5 languages, is classy, well mannered and beautiful.
Anyone this beautiful and talented would not get on with Jade. Jade is a joke in England and should not be allowed to sour our good relations with India.
Not since Janet Jackson’s wardrobe malfunction has so much been made of so little. When the Indian government said that they would take appropriate action I’m afraid I just fell about laughing; a nation of one billion people that has to react to the pronouncements of some stupid ignorant women locked in a faraway house.
Jade became famous precisely because she was vilified remorselessly for her jaw-droppingly uninformed stupidity by the tabloids (yes, those organs of academic excellence!). She and her cohorts have been, and clearly are, racist. They deserve to be both condemned for their behaviour and educated as to why it is wrong. I don’t think its a matter for national governments, however.
Some good could come of this if the media and public reaction prompted is genuine in its distaste for such attitudes. If the response continues to go OTT, on the other hand, with police prosecutions, diplomatic sanctions and more screaming faux media outrage then this will simply provoke a counter-reaction which will rally the chavs around their “rights to speak freely”. Keep the response proportionate.
Hey Sonia, I think it is endemic of the way society works. Polite but racist to foreigners with themselves as the people who should be in control and be it the greatest non deservers, as long as you speak the language proper and don’t eat with your hands!
Get a grip with all this Jade bashing and Shilpa worshipping. Its simply and quite obviously a case of class clashing, not racism which people are so quick to play and its getting so boring.
Jade is from a poor working class area and not very good looking, shes obviously not well educated and is lacking in intelligence. This has resulted in many of you personally insulting her on a level that was out of her control, namely the cards she was dealt at birth and this is just as bad as insulting someone based on culture + race.
However shes not as fake and arrogant as Shilpa and most of you who post on this board.
People can be ignorant when trying to make sense of someones culture and can be steriotypical, but Shilpa isnt of british culture so why on earth do you expect peoples opinions and insults of her to disregard culture when Shilpa isnt known personally.
Plus this view of typical Indians has been developed from the media, its all they are emulating.
Thortz
Precisely,that is what is needed. This was a very clever ploy by C4 and the programme maker. The way to involve British Asians in spending money on their programme was to put in a presentable Bollywood actress.Nothing gets the Asian attention more than Bollywood.
The pressure cooker atmosphere in that house will bring the worst side of anyone.The laughable antics of George Galloway were a prime example.Was that rational
behaviour for a serving MP?
hat show is quite sick in its ethos that it brings out the worst in people for entertaiment.
The “diplomatic incident”is quite over the top,is India without prejudice? Is there total harmony between religions,cates and races?
Casting the first stone..comes to mind.
sorry, it should read ,
castes and races.
BIG BROTHER’S SISTERHOOD…
Last night was the first time I’d ever sat through a whole programme of highlights from Celebrity Big Brother. The things I do for the sake of this blog… On the basis of what I’ve seen so far, the Shilpa…
‘how would you sum up Jermaine Jackson’s words:
white trash!, is this not racist?…’
Of course it is and while any form of racism is unnacceptable, its impact has to be judged within the context it was said in. Jermaine was trying to console rather than push Shilpa towards hatred and, more importantly, it’s not part of a campaign
The slurs against Shipla are designed to evoke hatred (as jade’s cronies prove) as part of a bullying campaign
Jermaine shouldn’t have said it, but he didn’t follow it up with action. And speaking as someone who’s been victimised in my snottier days, I’d much rather digest a racist slur than have some heffalump charge at me like she was going to knock my teeth out
To qualify my post in the other thread, there obviously is an aspect of racism to whats happened telling someone to ‘go back home’ can’t exactly be taken in another context. They’re bullying her because shes different; shes different because shes indian, from her pov i don’t think its wrong to voice that. Saying there has been ‘cultural conflict’ but no racism is one of the best PR euphemisms i’ve ever read.
I appreciate the concerns of some that it is unfair to focus on Jade and co’s working class backgrounds and to use their racism as an excuse to make insulting generalisations about white working class people (tho J is mixed race). So, why don’t they ship in a middle class racist idiot to even things up. One name immediately comes to mind: the BNP ballerina Simone Clark!
If we can put racism aside for one second and dwell on the class divide, isn’t it ironic that those espouting the virtues of good upbringing, education and humility involve:
• An Indian woman
• A black man
• A cigar chomping American
• A gay man
And on the other side of the pond, the British WWC…
It’s like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife
>> Get a grip with all this Jade bashing and Shilpa worshipping. Its simply and quite obviously a case of class clashing, not racism which people are so quick to play and its getting so boring.
I agree it is not racism, but it is mainly culture bashing. Faria Alam did not make these many headlines when she was in Big Brother. And all this brouhaha shows that unlike the welsh, french and germans, we are not prepared to laugh at ourselves and the ignorance of others, without making a big deal out of it.
What is worse, people seem unaware that Shilpa and every other contestant was chosen to create this cultural/social/class clash in order to make headlines, ratings and money. How shameful it is that politicians are getting into this as well, who are always finding a populist cause to hide their ever lasting mediocrity.
It is so predictable. The tabloids will crucify the three witches for being such racists, though they will pay lots of money to each one of them to spill the beans. And t