So what if a few crackpots and sexually furstrated inbreds are dreaming that they are going to establish their perfect state and take over. It’s not happening, full stop. You think there aren’t Christian crackpots who want to make America a Christian evangelical empire? Or aren’t Hindutva people who want to make India into a Hindu nation? These imams have even less power and influence than the Hindu/Christian ones because for a start the Middle East is an economic minnow.

What annoyed me about the programme wasn’t that the revelation these idiots existed. I can find you atheist freaks in America who want to bring down the government and live by anarchy.

No, the real problem has been the response of the organisations (MCB, MPAC) in response to what was showed. I’m going to write about that soon. Until then you guys are going round and round in circles and boring the hell outta me. Especially Old Pickler – who is banned anyway. End of discussion.

You were silly just to post quotes from the Koran earlier in this thread as of course it was going to get deleted.

Better to quote from the programme and ask questions of that, as that is what we are discussing.

Well we are, the apologists seem to have mostly gone to bed.

In fact that is what I ought be doing to!

TFI

What is it that makes “Whoever changes his religion from (insert religion here) to anything else – kill him in the (insert religion here) state” such a tricky one for you? Is this a practice all religions should adopt?

TFI

Don’t harp on like some sensationalist tabloid junkie. Whether Mo married a 9 year old or not matters nothing in today’s world. What matters is realising it’s not needed in today’s world, or at least not in our part of it. Islam can be classed as a Large Slow Target, and taking shots at it really couldn’t be easier. There’s no need to swing in with claims that while probably correct are essentially unverifiable and don’t matter anyway. All that matters is what islam is teaching today, and whether that affects non muslims or not.

I’m not having a pop at you here – I remember your campaign against the islamexpo and I was right with you – that for me was the final straw. Just reduce the angle of attack and you’ll get a wider audience.

Not ONE, I repeat, not ONE caller refuted ANYTHING these “extremists” had to say about Islam or Mo.

There was a lot of positive things said as the show went on, specifically many callers applauded channel 4 for making the show and “Bobby” for having been so brave to walk so far into the Lions den to get the footage they had.

One chap suggested that it should be shown every week to force people to accept and face what is going on under our noses.

One older lady went potty complaining about the tendacy to blame others for faults in themselves. She kept asking why there was no unified rejection of the teachings of these people from the Muslim community, as that is all the British public (whites, blacks, asians, whatever) need to be assured that this really is a fanatical minority not the mainstream belief.

With clear statements like that coming from mature members of the Islamic community cries of “Foreign Policy” ring very hollow.

It is clear that the varying strains of Islam have found varying ways to acsend from the 7th century teachings of Mohammed and that strains like Wabbhism is dragging them back.

Everytime that someone says: “The Koran should only be read in the orignal Arabic” they give creedence to the 7th Century version that the Wabbhis hold so dear.

TFI

I’m not going round taking the piss out of christians by the way, and shan’t until they begin blowing up randoms. Live and let live, I suppose.

Therefore from your demostrations, can we conclude that what these extremists had to say was Islamically correct?

Its all very well saying that we shouldn’t question the teachings of another faith as it is not acceptable, but when it is used as logical framework to justify the killings of innocents I think we have that right.

TFI

someone give her a hand.

Who, and what reforms are they pushing?

That’s as maybe, but it’s hardly reassuring if they condemn terrorism on the grounds that the time is not yet ripe to take over. Then tell us that when they take over, no more shall anyone be killed – unjustly.

Or am I just being paranoid?

How you can write this shit with the 21/7 attempted suicide murderers on trial some of whom attended Finsbury Park Mosque beggars belief.

That your still pushing the foreign policy causes terrorism shtick amazes me. The 21/7 men are not Iraqis or Palestinians but Ethiopians and Somalis.

Is this true? does this mean that a womens word is considered inferior to a mans? Is this something that is in Islam and just ignored in a moderate interpritation of Islam?”

It certainly is true in the Saudi export strength variety. In fact, I’d still be sceptical if they said the word of a woman was worth one hundreth that of a man. They’d still be lying.

Is this hatred of non-Muslims a central tenant of Islam? Is it overlooked by moderates or is simply not true?”

Not hatred in general, though with anyone using the term kuffaar to the face of non muslims we can safely assume he’s either genuinely deranged or really hates unbelievers. It’s undeniably derogative, though when I’ve taken this up with muslims their answer has been the prophet used the term so it cannot possibly be incorrect. I can’t deal with those people.

Is this true? Is this what Muslims that campaign for a Muslim state wish for? Does this make the wish for an Islamic state unacceptable to moderate Muslims? How do moderates align this with their beliefs? Is it just ignored?”

Technically apostacy is a capital offence, though if done quietly it’s more one of those laws honoured in the breach. i.e. don’t make a fuss and we’ll let it go. I think only in one or two countries is the law adhered to the letter, see the Afghan bloke – I’m fairly sure everyone involved would have rather he buggered off quietly but some bastard spoke to a journalist.

Is this true? Is this a logical arguement made from the core beliefs of Islam? Is it true by Islamic Law? How would a moderate engage with Dr Philips on Islamic, not secular, grounds?”

It’s true for the shia at least. Here we have as close to a central authority as it gets, and the main man Khomeini married a 10 year old girl when he was 29. I’ve also seen some of his writings which I find hard to believe even though I want to. Gary Glitter, eat your heart out.

For the sunni, seems your wahabi/salafi go with the Aisha was 6 when bethrothed and nine when married, and they’re probably right. Other sects try to twist the hadeeth to make her anything up to 29, but the evidence looks flimsy. Why they pick holes in things rather than giving the correct answer of “it might have been acceptable then, but in a society with a welfare state it’s most certainly not needed now” is beyond me. Or rather it’s not, but it’s trying to see one’s hard written comments deleted.

The age of consent in Iran is 10.