Harry’s Place continues to implode


by Sunny
6th August, 2010 at 4:17 pm    

Regular readers may remember a commenter called ‘Terry Fitz’ who used to post abusive comments here, directed at me, because I didn’t agree with his thinly veiled racism.

After being banned from PP he started hanging around at Harry’s Place – who happily allowed him to publish guest articles, and make constant comments having a go at me over anything and everything.

A few weeks ago I pointed out that Terry Fitz was charged for racially aggravated harassment. Nevertheless, HP and their poorer sidekick kept publishing his comments etc. Oh look, now it turns out, shock horror, that he really is a racist goon.

Andy Newman adds:

What is extraordinary is that when Lee Jasper posted evidence of these e-mails on a thread on Harry’s Place, the response from many Harry’s Place regulars was to imply that Jasper had made it up! Jasper was then not shown solidarity as a victim of racism, but further harassed, and harried over unrelated issues of what his views are on Louis Farrakhan. (Lee Jasper has recently raised the issue of an inappropriate and possibly racially inspired police raid on a Nation of Islam gathering). Jasper was accused of being a liar, and being obsessed with race. It is well worth reading the comments thread, if you want to observe an example of how the white-boy, frat-club atmosphere of Harry’s Place becomes a sustained and intimidating barracking of a black man, who had the temerity to complain about racism from one of their gang.

The paper-thin claims of Harry’s Place to being in any way a left blog have been based upon their alleged and self-proclaimed opposition to racism, and their disingenuous claim that their slavish support for Israel is because of their opposition to Anti-Semitism. They have made a grudging and half-hearted condemnation of the language used in these e-mails, but have covered this with exaggerated doubts about the provenence and veracity of the e-mails, and insinuations that Jasper wrote them himself.

HP has now abruptly decided to ban TF. Bunch of numpties.

Update: Oh they’ve also decided to now delete the thread and the comments made about Lee Jasper so we can’t judge them for ourselves. Why would that be eh?


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  1. sunny hundal

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  2. The Third Estate

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  3. Amir Rashid

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  7. thabet

    Harry's Place, a blog run by wankers: http://ht.ly/2mDiU


  8. Ian Holt

    RT @sunny_hundal: Harry's Place continues to implode http://bit.ly/9c8oCS




  1. cjcjc — on 6th August, 2010 at 4:20 pm  

    When precisely did it start “imploding”?

  2. Sunny — on 6th August, 2010 at 4:24 pm  

    Probably about a year ago… maybe more.

  3. Sunny — on 6th August, 2010 at 4:25 pm  

    No doubt Brownie will soon turn up here and piously claim again Harry’s Place has written more negative articles about the BNP than the rest of the internet combined!

  4. mostly harmless — on 6th August, 2010 at 4:46 pm  

    When a site like HP stops comments it doesn’t agree with from being posted, its time is up. My posts haven’t got through for over 6 months.

  5. Kamal — on 6th August, 2010 at 4:46 pm  

    David toube seems to have done so along time ago given his running to the far right daily mail with the “muslim swimming” story and his astonishing public rant at moazzem begg for daring to fight in bosnia

  6. Kamal — on 6th August, 2010 at 4:49 pm  

    Yes “mostly harmless” funny that hp immediately deletes posts critical of Israel or which vaguely contradict it’s writers errors while allowing the most astonishingly vile anti Muslim rants from the likes of John p

  7. earwicga — on 6th August, 2010 at 4:52 pm  

    Andy Newman doesn’t come out of this well either with his latest description of Terry Fitzpatrick.

  8. Refresh — on 6th August, 2010 at 4:56 pm  

    ‘When precisely did it start “imploding”?’

    The day DavidT shaved his beard off for his Daily Mail mugshot.

    Although the fuse was lit in that gathering in Euston.

    No doubt they’ve had their moments of preening, such as their dispicable campaign against Ken Livingstone of which the swimming pool story was a part.

  9. David O'Keefe — on 6th August, 2010 at 5:01 pm  

    “HP has now abruptly decided to ban TF. Bunch of numpties.

    Update: Oh they’ve also decided to now delete the thread and the comments made about Lee Jasper so we can’t judge them for ourselves. Why would that be eh?”

    I think this sums up the Neo-cons as HP can no longer be considered left and has never been decent. No self-reflection, no mea-culpa and no apology for Lee Jasper.

    The seed were always there, but the fall has been spectacular. I’m no expert on Fitzpatrick as I have little interest in him, but he had an axe to grind (as he first postings at PP indictaed) against certain individuals and he should never have been given a platform to air his grievances.

    HP has been lucky in one respect: they haven’t been sued for libel.

    As for TF and HP they seem made for each other, disillusioned Trots moving ever further to the right.

  10. joe90 — on 6th August, 2010 at 5:04 pm  

    I can’t believe it harry’s place has racist people posting on its blog i am in total shock. Next your going to tell us they are full of right wing islamaphobes!

  11. Kamal — on 6th August, 2010 at 5:15 pm  

    Lol @ joe90

  12. organic cheeseboard — on 6th August, 2010 at 5:49 pm  

    it’s the logical conclusion of the direction the blog has been heading from the off. when you’re probably the most characteristic proponent of a political movement that defines itself by what it is against, not what it is for, you will always end up being embraced by characters whose politics are, shall we say, dodgy.

    What’s so weird about Harry’s Place, though, is that they seem to actively embrace these dubious characters. Whether it’s Chas Newkey-Burden or Terry Fitz, or indeed the explicitly anti-Muslim ‘Centre for Social Cohesion’, as long as you hate on the ‘right people’, usually singled out usually not for any active wrongdoing but for personal reasons (see Mehdi Hasan, who humiliated Brett Lock in print then got ‘outed as an islamist’), it’s all good.

    what I still find galling is the ‘conclusion’ of the piece about this terry fitz bloke. it’s called a ‘tragedy’, but I’m not sure it is; would they’d be saying the same if someone on their enemy-list was found to be actively supporting a racist? We have extensive proof that this kind of special pleading usually falls on deaf ears at HP Sauce. And that’s when it’s a lot more justified than it is in this instance, when thy’ve been actively promoting a racist because he’s ‘on their side’ against, er, lee jasper, who genuinely is an anti-racist campaigner but who is linked to one of their enemies…

    s i said, it’s the final resting place of the harry’s place political movement. it was always going to end up like this. it’s not like the people runnign the site haven’t been warned about the readers they attract – but instead of heeding these warnings, they let these dodgy characters post articles.

  13. HP hypocrites — on 6th August, 2010 at 6:39 pm  

    “When a site like HP stops comments it doesn’t agree with from being posted, its time is up. My posts haven’t got through for over 6 months.”

    Liberty if it means anything at all, means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. LOL

  14. halima — on 6th August, 2010 at 6:58 pm  

    I don’t believe these charges against Terry Fitz. I’ve known Terry since I was a child. He might be colourful, but it won’t be his style to write letters with racial abuse, it simply doesn’t wash. He’s also an old friend.

    Something has gone wrong here.

  15. Golam Murtaza — on 6th August, 2010 at 7:12 pm  

    I’m not a regular poster here so I’m a bit behind on this one. We’re not talking about ‘Billericay Dickie’ are we?? If we are I’m surprised. I always just thought he was cranky and contrary – not racist.

  16. Sunny — on 6th August, 2010 at 7:31 pm  

    PS – any comments relating to the trial etc will be deleted…

  17. ~AFAR — on 6th August, 2010 at 8:10 pm  

    I’ve just been over to Harry’s Place and the article by Edmund Standing referred to as “removed” by Sunny above is still up. It can be found, here:

    http://hurryupharry.org/2010/08/02/lee-jasper-visits-harrys-place-outrage-ensues/

    The comments have been stripped from the article, this is true; but all comments have been stripped from all HP articles as soon as they fall off the front page – and this has been the case since HP switched servers earlier this year.

    What I would recommend is that people check facts for themselves, rather than relying on what rather interested parties like Seymour, his SU goons and others have to say about such matters.

  18. ~AFAR — on 6th August, 2010 at 8:12 pm  

    Further, as far as I can tell, Terry Fitz has placed a maximum of half a dozen comments ever on “The Spittoon”. He has not been a frequent commentator on that website – and the last time he commented on that site was months ago.

  19. Kamal — on 6th August, 2010 at 8:25 pm  

    “Further, as far as I can tell, Terry Fitz has placed a maximum of half a dozen comments ever on “The Spittoon”. He has not been a frequent commentator on that website – and the last time he commented on that site was months ago.”

    Which if he had commented on a site HP/Spittoon disapprove of (eg a pro-Palestinian or pro-Muslim one) would be enough to condemn the site and have David T calling for the site owner/poster to be sacked from their job!

  20. Kamal — on 6th August, 2010 at 9:05 pm  

    This is typical of the far right Eurabian fantasies of HP contributors

    gordon h.

    “This is only possible because the Guardian and the BBC are run by Islamists and continually spout pro-Islamist propaganda. you won’t find this story in either of these for this very reason. ”

    http://hurryupharry.org/2010/08/06/iran-stoning-case-at-imminent-risk-of-execution/

  21. ~AFAR — on 6th August, 2010 at 9:56 pm  

    Kamal

    Hardly addresses my points; however nice a bit of “whataboutery”…

    I, of course, meant Andy Newman, not Richard Seymour, above… apologies. These Trots – they all look the same to me.

  22. ~AFAR — on 6th August, 2010 at 9:57 pm  

    Sunny’s error that HP have deleted the thread, remains. As does his hyperbole about Fitz’s contributions to “The Spittoon”.

  23. ~AFAR — on 6th August, 2010 at 9:58 pm  

    Equally, Kamal’s quotation from HP comes from a below-the-line commentator and not the OP to which he links.

    Perhaps we should find some dicey comment from a PP commentator and pin it on Sunny?

  24. Zionist hypocrites — on 6th August, 2010 at 10:24 pm  

    Opponent Of Cordoba House Is Building A Museum On Top Of A Muslim Cemetery In Jerusalem

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/06/marvin-hier-museum/

  25. Kamal — on 6th August, 2010 at 10:29 pm  

    ~AFAR
    “Equally, Kamal’s quotation from HP comes from a below-the-line commentator and not the OP to which he links.

    Perhaps we should find some dicey comment from a PP commentator and pin it on Sunny?”

    Says the hypocrite Spittoon’s Abu Faris, now posting as ~AFAR, who over at Spittoon is saying this:

    “Pete

    As evidenced in the gaff-prone article up today on HP written by Sunny, in his inimitable facts-free style.”

    http://www.spittoon.org/archives/7538#comment-19772

  26. Sarah AB — on 6th August, 2010 at 10:35 pm  

    Has HP ever had a post opposing the Cordoba House mosque?

  27. douglas clark — on 6th August, 2010 at 11:39 pm  

    What desperation by tilde Afar @ 22, The substantive point still exists Afar.

    It is pretty obvious that Harry’s Place is a nest of vipers.

    Cue Brownie, talking shite, enter from stage right.

    Or

    Cue, David T saying big words that mean nothing entering from stage left

    Yup, that about sums up the idiots that brought us the Euston Manifesto.

    _________________________

    Chumps.

  28. douglas clark — on 6th August, 2010 at 11:48 pm  

    Sarah AB,

    You swim with the fishes, perhaps:

    http://hurryupharry.org/2010/07/20/finsbury-park-mosque-abdulmutalab-awlaki-link/

    You seem a nice enough person. Why the heck are you excusing these runts?

  29. douglas clark — on 7th August, 2010 at 12:03 am  

    The point being that decent people are convinced by extremists. And David T, for all his fond words, is an extremist. He really believes there is an existential threat to Jews in the UK, much as several Muslims appear to feel the threat is directed at them. And folk like that are dangerous to all of us, for they represent nobody, but they do represent a fear.

    That is their modus operandi, that is what makes them powerful when we are not.

    Lies, for that is what they tell, give all sorts of demagogues power and influence.

    Harry’s Place is riddled with that sort of half truth, half lie. It is a frankly a disgusting forum, made up of half lies and half bald faced propoganda. I’d have thought Jews would have thought better than that. But apparently not and there you go…

    It is up to us to tell them to get to fuck.

    But we should be equal opportunities on this. The Arabs tell total lies about Jews too.

    We should tell them to get to fuck too.

    It is only by removing the mutual lies and mistruths that there is the slightest hope for compromise.

    Frankly. I’m not holding my breath.

  30. douglas clark — on 7th August, 2010 at 12:13 am  

    For each of them loves their lies, more than their religion or the truth….

    Fuck the lot of them. It is only going to be the case for mutual tolerance when idiotic little twerps like them have died out.

    And that is not going to be tommorrow. There are web pages to be sold and money to be made by continuing what is, effectively, a vendetta.

    Perhaps David T might care to address his calumny in all of this? For he is as guilty as sin….

  31. ~AFAR — on 7th August, 2010 at 4:01 am  

    Kamal

    AKA Munir…

  32. Sarah AB — on 7th August, 2010 at 7:36 am  

    Douglas – I meant the ‘Ground Zero’ mosque. I don’t agree with everything on HP, but I don’t agree that David T is an extremist. I don’t agree with everything he’s written either but he’s written thoughtful pieces about the importance of distinguishing between criticism of particular (Muslim) indiviuals and groups and criticism of Islam itself/Muslims in general. (I quite agree, of course, that such distinctions are not always respected below the line on HP!) I’d be slightly surprised, for example, if David T didn’t agree with the Alex Massie on the Ground Zero mosque – Sunny flagged this up recently of course.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/6188749/ground-zero-mosque-another-moment-of-truth-for-the-open-society.thtml

  33. ~AFAR — on 7th August, 2010 at 10:01 am  

    In fact, Sara AB, the HP blogger Gene put up a piece not so long ago praising the Mayor of New York’s support for the Ground Zero Mosque.

  34. ~AFAR — on 7th August, 2010 at 10:04 am  

    “I’d have thought Jews would have thought better than that. But apparently not and there you go…

    It is up to us to tell them to get to fuck.”

    What *all* Jews – or just *some*???

    This is classic anti-Semitic trash; and is not ameliorated or mitigated by his next statement about Arabs either, which is as equally offensive.

  35. ~AFAR — on 7th August, 2010 at 2:46 pm  

    Further, I doubt whether Douglas Clark has ever actually read the Euston Manifesto, which was not bought to us by Harry’s Place.

  36. Kisan — on 7th August, 2010 at 3:18 pm  

    The Open Society has a moment of truth article is all very well.

    Having read Poppers books by that name and recognising the parallells between the totalitarianism of Marxism, Fascism and also Islamic doctrine I think that the above article is totally naive on this:

    Here is a quote from Popper that explains where Poppers Open Society differs substantively on this issue:

    The so-called paradox of freedom is the argument that freedom in the sense of absence of any constraining control must lead to very great restraint, since it makes the bully free to enslave the meek. The idea is, in a slightly different form, and with very different tendency, clearly expressed in Plato.
    Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.

    —————

    Within this you can see how Popper wouldn’t allow intolerant Islamists a free reign to propagate their program which ends with the destruction of democratic freedom under the wishy washy banner of the ‘Open Society’. Rather Popper would urge countering with rational argument and perhaps also stronger measures also.

  37. ~AFAR — on 7th August, 2010 at 3:32 pm  

    Kisan

    Excellent points… and at last someone who has actaully read and *understood* Popper!

    There is a famous legend that rather sums up Popper’s position. On a visit to Cambridge in the late ’40s, Popper became involved in a rather too heated discussion about moral principles and rules with the philosopher, Wittgenstein. Allegedly it ended up with Wittgenstein waving a fire poker under Popper’s nose, demanding “Show me a moral rule!!!”. To which the unflappable fellow Austrian, Popper, coolly replied: “How about: not threatening visitors with iron bars?”

  38. johng — on 7th August, 2010 at 6:13 pm  

    Well if that really was popper’s argument its remarkably similar to the argument put foward by Carl Schmitt the conservative legal philosopher of the weimer republic who was later to become a Nazi. The argument was essentially that what you identify above as ‘Popper’s paradox of freedom’ identified a central weakness in Liberalism’s ability to defend itself against its illiberal enemies. It was an argument which eventually led Schmitt to join the Nazi Party. He remained unrepentent about his decision till his death. Harry’s Place readers and other fans might consider themselves warned.

  39. johng — on 7th August, 2010 at 6:20 pm  

    When I saw David T on that youtube clip ranting and raving it really did look to me like someone driven deranged with bigotry. I think he genuinely believes that there is a conspiracy of Islamists intent on ruling the world and, rather more importantly then intent, that this is a real possibility (on HP I’ve been surprised to see comments from him to the effect that a new Holocaust is on the way etc, togeather with the usual ridiculous comparisons of concern about Israeli human rights abuses on campuses today with the atmosphere in German campuses in the 1930s). This does strike me as somewhat mad and not a little fanatical. I have come to suspect he genuinely believes this guff though. Its the only way to explain his monomaniacal obsessions (which have of course attracted far more dangerous crazies or should that be far more crazy dangers) with a degree of charity. It is dangerous stuff though and reminds me of nothing so much as an outburst of paisleyism. The endless obsessive going on about different kinds of Islamists recalls for me Woodey Allen’s anti-semetic uncle and his ‘book of jews’ in (was it?) everything you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask. I think the wierdos really started flooding in when the wierd got wierder.

  40. ~AFAR — on 7th August, 2010 at 8:54 pm  

    johng’s attempt to smear Popper with association with the Nazi party reveals a few things:

    Johng is an idiot who knows nothing about Popper

    Johng is an idiot…

    How’s the PhD coming on, john? Phailed?

  41. KJB — on 7th August, 2010 at 9:10 pm  

    I don’t generally like to get involved in anything that looks set to become a flame-war, but:

    “I’d have thought Jews would have thought better than that. But apparently not and there you go…

    It is up to us to tell them to get to fuck.”

    What *all* Jews – or just *some*???

    This is classic anti-Semitic trash; and is not ameliorated or mitigated by his next statement about Arabs either, which is as equally offensive.

    Note the bit in bold that I’ve emphasised for you? That’s the whole point. Whilst Douglas may not have expressed himself with quite the level of delicacy you seek, he is NOT an anti-Semite, and his ‘equally offensive’ treatment of Jews and Arabs who think in a purely communitarian manner and mask political concerns with the label of ‘religion’ is perfectly acceptable. It is not by any means ‘classic anti-Semitic trash,’ and no, I am not going to go into providing examples of that kind of hateful shit in order to conform to anyone’s definitions. If examples are what you want, go to the Imperial War Museum and visit their excellent Holocaust exhibition.

    Let me just say that I have little interest in why certain HPers have beef with Sunny, or vice versa. When you smear a regular of this site, however, I will step in and tell you to grow the fuck up. No, Douglas doesn’t always come across so clearly on PP, and I know there have been cruel and mocking comments about him by visitors to this site. Having met him in real life, however, I know him to be remarkably humane and open-minded. Smearing an idealistic, frustrated individual does not make you right; it merely shows you to be desperate for a scrap, which is frankly rather juvenile.

  42. Kamal — on 7th August, 2010 at 10:00 pm  

    Johng you have david to a t!

  43. KB Player — on 7th August, 2010 at 10:46 pm  

    When I saw David T on that youtube clip ranting and raving it really did look to me like someone driven deranged with bigotry. I think he genuinely believes that there is a conspiracy of Islamists intent on ruling the world a

    Now, johng, regarding that clip I have asked Andy Newman at Socialist Unity who posted it and called it an “Islamophobic rant” to quote the Islamicphobic bits. He won’t quote the Islamophobic bits and if I ask him on his own site he deletes me. If I ask him on other sites he ignores me. So perhaps you could help me out and quote the Islamophobic bits, as I can’t make them out at all.

  44. FlyingRodent — on 7th August, 2010 at 11:09 pm  

    I didn’t think david T. was being Islamophobic either, as it happens. He didn’t exactly come off like a diamond geezer, but his beef sounded political rather than religious, which is fine by me.

  45. Refresh — on 7th August, 2010 at 11:57 pm  

    Sarah AB, surely the question is why has there been no HP article on the Simon Wiesanthal Centre looking to build a centre for humanity on a muslim cemetery?

    Don’t you think?

    For goodness sake, this is a centre set up to chase down war criminals and to deliver justice. Something which made it a flagship human rights organisation. Perhaps I was fooling myself all these years.

    I have in the past suggested an equivalent to the Simon Wiesenthal Centre to chase down all war criminals, where all lives are considered equal and deserving of justice.

  46. damon — on 7th August, 2010 at 11:59 pm  

    From the OP

    Update: Oh they’ve also decided to now delete the thread and the comments made about Lee Jasper so we can’t judge them for ourselves. Why would that be eh?

    Was there something particularly wrong with Edmund Standing’s opening post in the thread? Supporting a protest called by the Nation of Islam was obviously something to be criticised I’d have thought.

  47. Refresh — on 8th August, 2010 at 12:04 am  

    Afar, I will reinforce KJB’s point.

    How dare you accuse Douglas Clark of anti-semitism! I believe you owe him an apology.

    Johng, I believe you are being too kind to DavidT. He is not monomaniacal, he is an astute operator who knows how to have us all play to his narrative. He is only interested in creating diversions and bogeymen so the Likudniks can carry on as before.

  48. john — on 8th August, 2010 at 1:04 am  

    KB Player
    “Now, johng, regarding that clip I have asked Andy Newman at Socialist Unity who posted it and called it an “Islamophobic rant” to quote the Islamicphobic bits. He won’t quote the Islamophobic bits and if I ask him on his own site he deletes me. If I ask him on other sites he ignores me. So perhaps you could help me out and quote the Islamophobic bits, as I can’t make them out at all.”

    Wow you dont think haranguing someone for having fought against the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia is anti-Muslim ? Do you think attacking someone for having fought the Nazis is not anti-semitic? But you HPers probably support what was done to the Muslims in Bosnia and deny it was genocide.

  49. earwicga — on 8th August, 2010 at 3:16 am  

    ‘Afar, I will reinforce KJB’s point.

    How dare you accuse Douglas Clark of anti-semitism! I believe you owe him an apology’

    Agreed!

  50. Sunny — on 8th August, 2010 at 12:46 pm  

    Johng is an idiot who knows nothing about Popper

    Johng is an idiot…

    Oh dear – you’re back to frothing and insulting everyone again.

    That didn’t take long ‘Abu Faris’ – back to being banned again.

    Why can’t the two fuckwit readers from Spittoon just stay there? I know that blog is fucking boring but there’s no need to pollute this space with your drivel.

  51. douglas clark — on 8th August, 2010 at 11:36 pm  

    A few points I would like to make, if I may?

    This internet thing can be quite, err, difficult, at times. I have been variously accused of being anti-semitic and anti-Muslim on the last couple of threads I have participated in.

    My usually optimistic nature took a darker turn. Perhaps I just hate everyone?

    Well, I thought about it real hard as they say. And I don’t.

    What I absolutely abhor is the clannish nature of the worst of Jews and Muslims and probably Christians too. There is no compromise, there is a deliberate attempt by the worst of you to silence anyone that doesn’t sing from the same hymn sheet that you do.

    And you will lie, and you will cheat and you will see all of that as fair in love and war.

    It is what you want to turn the internet into.

    It is the lying and cheating that really angers me about the religious massif. They ought to be better than that, but they aren’t.

    They want a battlefield, like the Somme.

    And they sure as hell don’t give a fuck about thee or me. They try to make us into cannon fodder in a game they play.

    Well, fuck them!

    They should reflect on what they want, the whole bloody lot of them.

    But they won’t.
    ____________________________

    Can I thank KJB, whom I have met in ‘real life’ and who I consider a chum. And Refresh and earwigca too, whom I have not. I’d like to correct that at some point in the future. For, contrary to the views of the fools, I don’t have horns. (Or at least, only very little ones :-) )

  52. douglas clark — on 9th August, 2010 at 12:11 am  

    Err..

    Two other points.

    Sunny has tried to maintain an open forum here, in the sense that upset Muslims like Anas could discuss stuff with the likes of Chairwoman.

    And I’ll stand corrected, but they were fond of each other.

    That sort of dialogue is silenced by the folk whose very raison d’étre would be fucked if it became commonplace.

    They live and breath hatred.

    They are not healthy role models.

    I will not run away from that, but it would be good to see others saying the same thing.

    This is your forum. Do not let it be compromised by extremist religious nutters.

    ______________________

    Second point:

    If you meet people and talk to them, they are not as alien as those folk would have you think. At least consider that, please? Even the most extreme nutters that comment on here probably love their kids….

    or summat..

    Which is why the vituperation that they heap on me is like water off a ducks back. I can, sort of, see where they are coming from, and, despite having commented here since the year dot, they haven’t a clue where I am coming from.

    Their measure of the man is whether he agrees with them. If you don’t, then it is duck season, and they are out with the shotguns…

    It is kind of sad, and deliberately divisive. That is the measure of your new commentator….

  53. KB Player — on 10th August, 2010 at 6:06 pm  

    Wow you dont think haranguing someone for having fought against the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia is anti-Muslim ? Do you think attacking someone for having fought the Nazis is not anti-semitic? But you HPers probably support what was done to the Muslims in Bosnia and deny it was genocide.

    Quotes, please quotes.

    I can’t speak for HP, but I think some of the posters there use Bosnia as an example of the rightness of liberal intervention. Perhaps you’re getting them mixed up with the RCP/Mraxism Today/Spiked?

  54. KB Player — on 10th August, 2010 at 6:18 pm  

    At comment 53 the first paragraph is a quotation of john’s comment at 48. I assume that he is “johng”.

  55. Sarah AB — on 10th August, 2010 at 9:30 pm  

    @Refresh – belatedly (sorry) I don’t think HP is obliged to run a post on every single possible issue. Here, incidentally, is the most recent piece – on the Ground Zero Mosque.

    http://hurryupharry.org/2010/08/10/jeffrey-goldberg-on-the-ground-zero-mosque/#comments

  56. Refresh — on 11th August, 2010 at 1:50 am  

    Sarah AB,

    No you are absolutely correct. Its not obliged. It is worth noting that it chose not to.

    But why do you choose to give them cover, isn’t the issue serious enough to merit a post?

  57. Sarah AB — on 11th August, 2010 at 8:41 am  

    Refresh. This was a thread about Harry’s Place. Then someone giving him or herself the colourful name ‘Zionist Hypocrites’ came along and pointed out that some guy who disapproved of the Ground Zero Mosque approved of this centre being built on a Muslim grave in Jerusalem. Superficially the article ‘Zionist Hypocrites’ linked to seemed to make a fair point. If you are against the mosque being built on a ‘cemetery’ then it *might* seem inconsistent to approve the site of the Wiesenthal Centre. Though I don’t see why the person guilty of that possible inconsistency has to have his presumed ‘Zionism’ flagged so shrilly. My objection was more to this being invoked within the context of HP – HP has never attacked the Mosque so why should they have to express a view on the centre? They don’t have *that* many posts on internal Israeli matters. Although I took the Muslim cemetery story (which I hadn’t heard about before I don’t think) at face value at first, I note that this site makes some reasonable counterarguments. http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=5505225 A brief glance at pieces in Haaretz also made me feel inclined to think the protestors had a fairly weak case. But obviously I still have an open mind because I don’t feel I know much about the issues at stake.

  58. cjcjc — on 11th August, 2010 at 9:02 am  

    “But obviously I still have an open mind because I don’t feel I know much about the issues at stake.”

    Don’t you know that this is a BLOG on the INTERWEB?

    Take your “open-mindedness” elsewhere! ;-)

  59. johng — on 23rd August, 2010 at 8:35 am  

    Belatedly can I clarify that I am not ‘john’ but ‘johng’. Interestingly the same stupid points were made by a few other HP posters on other blogs making the same error. Its an honor to be singled out by these moronic right wingers for a hate campaign.

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