The war on Hanukkah


by Sunny
20th December, 2006 at 6:44 am    

Ya know… I was reading this today and thought – Joel Stein has a point. The war over holidays really is a zero-sum game. And we’re losing out to Christmas dammit!

There is a war on Hanukkah. I know this because, even by late last week, I had absolutely no idea it was Hanukkah. Usually my grandmother sends a card, or the radio plays that Adam Sandler song, or one of those Chabad people in a Mitzvah tank picks me out on the street as Jewish and hands me candles, causing me to worry that I’m balding and short and my nose is too big. Apparently, disseminating self-loathing is a mitzvah.

War is a zero-sum game, so when Christmas is winning, Hanukkah is losing. Crumbling under pressure from conservatives, Wal-Mart, Macy’s, Target, Kmart, Walgreens and Kohl’s dropped “Happy Holidays” and brought back their “Merry Christmas” campaigns. The Seattle airport put back its Christmas trees after removing them last week when a rabbi complained. That controversy never would have happened if Gentiles simply realized that absolutely no one ever listens to rabbis. If we did, kids who went to Hebrew school would actually speak Hebrew.

Because if you’re going tribal, we’re going tribal. And though our tribe is small and often out of shape, we’re scrappy. So think twice before you spill out too much vitriol about this war on Christmas that you’re winning. When the empowered convince themselves that they’re under attack, they often convince themselves that cruelty to the powerless is justified. These are the scary sugar plums that dance in Lou Dobbs’ [CNN news anchor] head.

I realize these are difficult times. I understand the desire to declare “our” unified Christianity in public places, to fence out the Mexicans, to fight against the luxury of Muslim free speech, to pass English-only legislation. But a great nation, as our Constitution figured out, fights its populist instincts. And uses Latin to confuse its citizens.

And if getting along means accepting a manger and not hearing “Happy Hanukkah,” I’m willing to surrender in this war. As long as you realize that without those of us who don’t celebrate Christmas, this nation would lose its purpose. And the chance to have this dumb debate every year.

Yup, he has my vote! Next year we’re gonna declare war on Christmas. Who’s with me?


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  1. Desi Italiana — on 20th December, 2006 at 7:41 am  

    “I realize these are difficult times. I understand the desire to declare “our” unified Christianity in public places, to fence out the Mexicans, to fight against the luxury of Muslim free speech, to pass English-only legislation. But a great nation, as our Constitution figured out, fights its populist instincts. And uses Latin to confuse its citizens.”

    Priceless :)

    Speaking of holiday wars, the Hindus in the US have jumped onto the bandwagon.

    Everybody fighting for their piece of the pie…though I personally wouldn’t spend energy on these types of “issues” (if they can be considered as “issues” in the first place).

  2. Taj — on 20th December, 2006 at 8:45 am  

    I’ve been saying Happy Hannukah to all my students. However, the festival? Too commercialised; you can’t move for fancy new dreidels or Playstation dreidel games in the shops; everyone’s gorging themselves on two-for-one latkes, bimuelos or sufganiyots at ASDA; you can’t escape the cheesy Hannukah songs that always emerge at this time of year (but at least Cliff Richard’s sincere about his Jewish faith). On the whole, it’s become all about the gelt, gelt, gelt. I mean, when are we going to remember the person at the heart of it all? – Judah Maccabee. I tell you, this I like not one bit.

  3. Taj — on 20th December, 2006 at 8:47 am  

    Still, Oy oy oy! Merry Hannukah!

  4. Chairwoman — on 20th December, 2006 at 9:04 am  

    Happy Channukah and pass the doughnuts.

    Seriously though, great post, and why shouldn’t we all share the festivities of our various holy days with each other.

  5. Leon — on 20th December, 2006 at 10:15 am  

    Next year we’re gonna declare war on Christmas. Who’s with me?

    Not me, I love Christmas and I’m an Athiest! Free gifts and no work? Who in the world would want to stop that??

  6. Chairwoman — on 20th December, 2006 at 10:27 am  

    Absolutely Leon, that’s exactly what I meant. Perhaps we non-Christians should have Yule. Then we can enjoy all the Christmas associated things that are actually Yule related in a non-religious way.

    Now there’s a convoluted sentence if ever I saw one.

  7. Leon — on 20th December, 2006 at 10:53 am  

    Yule, yeah that could work!:D

  8. bananabrain — on 20th December, 2006 at 11:30 am  

    yeah, i heard some complete lib-dem (evan harris, i think) who is associated with the national secular society talking about that on the today programme yesterday, about how it was unfair to impose christ on christmas – they had some other guy, probably a bishop or something, arguing (quite reasonably i thought) the opposite. i thought the bishop had a good point – surely there’s nothing wrong with christmas actually being christian. if you want to have an officially secular version, i believe “winterval” is free. there’s always “yule” as well.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  9. William — on 20th December, 2006 at 11:51 am  

    What’s Hannukah? I guess it’s Jewish
    Whatever it is Bah Humbug!

    To Christmas I say Bah Humbug!

    To Diwali I say Bah Humbug!

    To Vaisakhi I say Bah Humbug!

    To Wesak I say Bah Humbug!

    To Guy Fawks I say Bah Humbug!

    To Halloween I say Bah Humbug!

    To Pagan Midwinter Festival I say Bah Humbug!

    I challenge the ghost of all of them to fix this scrooge!!

  10. Taj — on 20th December, 2006 at 12:18 pm  

    God/Jehovah/Waheguru/Allah/Shiva/L.Ron Hubbard/Great Spirit/David Beckham/The Rational Force in Man/Richard Dawkins bless us, everyone! And have a merry mid-winter festive occasion!

  11. Bert Preast — on 20th December, 2006 at 12:23 pm  

    Despite defining myself not as jew or christian but rather as pointless talking monkey, I’ve had enough of the modern christmas and long for a return to the simple religious ceremonies of the past.

    Partly because sitting in church for an hour or two would be infinitely preferable to all this stressfest present buying and crap, unwanted dinner invitations – but mostly because I am sick to the bloody back teeth of the government’s exhortations on me to save energy while they themselves string up 100,000 lightbulbs in the high street the bastards.

    Humbuggery for the win, I reckon.

  12. Vikrant — on 20th December, 2006 at 12:35 pm  

    Lo!

    Hannukah? Christmas? I dont care as long as i get my holidays… This post reminds me of an old South Park episode. Mr. Hankey, the Christmas Poo, when Kyle’s mum pulls the plug on South Park’s christmas!

    For some reason, I’ve always based my visualisation of Chairwoman on Kyle’s mum!

    On a side note, just yestaday me dad noticed that i’d dumped my sacred thread! He’s mighty angry… I jos’ hope he doesnt come to know that its currently lying at the bottom of river Wey….

    P.S Police did trace the call to a public phone in Swindon!

  13. Riz — on 20th December, 2006 at 1:25 pm  

    Here are some thoughts:

    * When you say ‘zero sum game’ all I can think of is futures trading, which is truly zero-sum…in the spirit of xmas generosity, I lose so others can win.

    * The idea that festivals are zero-sum when they fall around the same period isn’t quite true, for while high intensity xmas celebration can crowd out other festivities to an extent (I think the goat-killing Eid also falls around this time), it isn’t a 1-for-1 sacrifice and minorities can still happily celebrate their own special days.

    * Is Christmas really a Christian festival anymore? It seems to be a merger at least of Christian and pagan beliefs. Over time, as the beast of Christmas grows, maybe other minority festivals will get absorbed in to Christmas…it will evolve to mean everything and nothing at the same time.

    * Perhaps we should all ignore xmas and celebrate the much more meaningful Festivus, which is in 3 days time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus (the traditional festivus

  14. Riz — on 20th December, 2006 at 1:28 pm  

    Here are some thoughts:

    * When you say ‘zero sum game’ all I can think of is futures trading, which is truly zero-sum…in the spirit of xmas generosity, I lose so others can win.

    * The idea that festivals are zero-sum when they fall around the same period isn’t quite true, for while high intensity xmas celebration can crowd out other festivities to an extent (I think the goat-killing Eid also falls around this time), it isn’t a 1-for-1 sacrifice and minorities can still happily celebrate their own special days.

    * Is Christmas really a Christian festival anymore? It seems to be a merger at least of Christian and pagan beliefs. Over time, as the beast of Christmas grows, maybe other minority festivals will get absorbed in to Christmas…it will evolve to mean everything and nothing at the same time.

    * Perhaps we should all ignore xmas and celebrate the more meaningful Festivus, which is in 3 days time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus (the traditional festivus

  15. Leon — on 20th December, 2006 at 1:44 pm  

    For some reason, I’ve always based my visualisation of Chairwoman on Kyle’s mum!

    Er that’s quite an insult.

  16. Don — on 20th December, 2006 at 1:47 pm  

    I suppose that one of the reasons some christians are so defensive/possesive about christmas is that most intelligent christians understand that the festival is not intrinsically christian, but is merely occupied by christianity, like a hermit crab in a whelk shell. They colonised the solstice, ruthlessly and bloodily, but the old ways refuse to fade.

    Take away the pre-christian/pagan aspects and it would be difficult to recognise the season; sans trees and holly, sans Santa and reindeer, sans feasting and gift giving, sans panto and Dickens. Take away the purely christian aspects and it would still look a lot like christmas.

    Not that I’d want to. Midnight Mass in an 11th century abbey, carol singers in the market square, school nativity plays. They all add to the mix. It’s the solstice; it’s party time, it’s visit your aunty time, it get maudlin with your mates time, it’s eat youself into a coma time. Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, whatever you’re celebrating, have a blast.

  17. Vikrant — on 20th December, 2006 at 2:11 pm  

    Er that’s quite an insult.

    In ma’ opinion she’s one of the most sanest people in South Park!

  18. Leon — on 20th December, 2006 at 2:21 pm  

    Hmmm she constantly goes mad with moral panic crusades and generally is hated and tolerated at best by the other parents. Cartmen did an excellent song about her!

    Anyway, I would never visualise CW like that!!!

  19. Bert Preast — on 20th December, 2006 at 2:23 pm  

    Nope, that’s still quite an insult.

  20. Siddhartha Claus — on 20th December, 2006 at 2:30 pm  

    How can you not love a religious festival celebrated by these two degenerates?

    rump a pump pump pump!

  21. Vikrant — on 20th December, 2006 at 2:31 pm  

    c’mon guys… Its not as if i’m comparing CW with Cartman’s mum or Kenny’s mum!

    Cartmen did an excellent song about her!

    Yeah i’d agree, Cartman at his best!

  22. Electro — on 20th December, 2006 at 2:59 pm  

    Years ago, as a university student, I worked as a doorman ( uniform and all!) at an apartment complexe that was half Christian and half Jewish.

    They had indoor decorations, outdoor decorations, a Christmas tree and Channukah candles. I was the one who had to put it all up. To boot, everytime someone walked in or out I had to smile and wish them a cheery “happy holidays”….even when I was hungover.

    By the time January came I was so fed up I started musing about converting to Buddhism.

    I suppose that one of the reasons some christians are so defensive/possesive about christmas is that most intelligent christians understand that the festival is not intrinsically christian, but is merely occupied by christianity, like a hermit crab in a whelk shell. They colonised the solstice, ruthlessly and bloodily, but the old ways refuse to fade : “Don”

    That’s not true. Let me explain.

    The emperor Aurelian declared in 274 that the festival of Sol Invictus would be celebrated on Dec. 25th.

    By the late 3rd century Christianity was clearly nudging ahead of the pack, as it were, of competing “religions” and the Roman authorities had become somewhat fearful of the new faith.

    Aurelian decided, thus, that he could “expropriate” the Christian celebration and blur the distinction between paganism and Christianity by inventing an offical state sponsored holiday. Aurelian, who was the Roman Empire’s second-last pagan emperor, by the way, (and a good one!) was attempting to confuse the populace and to keep Christianity in check. His successor, Diocletian (also a good emperor) became desperate and decided to pull all the stops and to engaged in ruthless persecutions, but to no avail.

    There are theological reasons ( which I’m too ignorant to go into) for celebrating on Dec. 25th.

    It has something to do with the feast of the annuciation ( Christ’s conception) which predates Christmas and which is celebrated on March 25th. Since even the …um…”son-of-god” took 9 months to mature in the womb, his birthday then became the 25th of Dec.

    To say, though, that Christians were imitating the festival of “Sol Invictus” is just an urban myth.

  23. Leon — on 20th December, 2006 at 3:06 pm  

    c’mon guys… Its not as if i’m comparing CW with Cartman’s mum or Kenny’s mum!

    Hmmm so it’s ok to compare her to Kyles mum because you’re not calling her white trash or a whore?:P

    Seriously, I’m wondering if we watch the same South Park!

  24. Chairwoman — on 20th December, 2006 at 3:18 pm  

    To whom it may concern. I have dark, greying, cropped hair (so short that I have it cut every 3 weeks). I am tall, and it wouldn’t hurt me to lose some weight. I can be confrontational if pushed, but prefer to compromise when possible. Speech-wise I’m a bit of a chameleon, when one of my friends visits, Katy describes us as ‘braying’ at each other. I abuse quotation marks and love handbags.

    Is that like Kyle’s ‘mom’.

  25. Taj — on 20th December, 2006 at 3:25 pm  

    Is it just me, or did I hear David Bowie joke about “Asians coming down the chimney” in that YouTube clip? (Could’ve been “agents”, but I like the idea of David Bowie sharing his VietCong nightmares with Bing Crosby on Christmas). An early, merry Tet!

  26. Sahil — on 20th December, 2006 at 3:54 pm  

    It’s true that christmas and hanukkah collide, but could we not have a mix, like in friends, and then add some diwali and eid in the mix as well. Our vacations could be 3 months long!!!!! How cool is that!!!! Then roll on Chinese New Years!!!! :-D

  27. Siddhartha Claus — on 20th December, 2006 at 4:31 pm  

    My favourite Hannukah song:

    ‘I saw mommy kvetching Siddhartha Claus’

  28. sonia — on 20th December, 2006 at 4:43 pm  

    yeah sahil – that’s the idea. more holidays would be great!

  29. Ravi Naik — on 20th December, 2006 at 4:49 pm  

    I found this sketch from Israel about Indians very funny. :)

  30. Chairwoman — on 20th December, 2006 at 5:00 pm  

    Ravi – It was cool.

  31. justforfun — on 20th December, 2006 at 5:12 pm  

    Vikrant – you throw away your kusti ….and then you get abusive phonecalls, catch maleria, what did you expect to happen – nothing. Your shields are down , no wonder your Dad is angry.

    Best get down to the temple to make amends.

    Glad your better. Where did you catch the maleria bytheway. Not on some white sand beach south of Bombay I hope. I had thought malaria was wiped out in India except in the direst of places. Obviously you have proved me wrong.

    Justforfun

  32. justforfun — on 20th December, 2006 at 5:15 pm  

    Ravi – that was very very funny – and has a grain of truth in it.

    Justforfun

  33. Vikrant — on 20th December, 2006 at 5:18 pm  

    JFF,
    Malaria is alive and kicking IN Bombay.

    Leon,

    I’m not exactly a South Park fanatic. I do catch up on it when I can… I havent seen it in like 6 months as we dont get South Park in India (i’d like to see them apply for Indian Censor Cert!)… Still I havent come across Shelia’s irritatingly moralistic side except perhaps in “Mr.Hanky the Christmas poo” and “Mr.Garrison’s fancy new vagina.”

  34. Vikrant — on 20th December, 2006 at 5:20 pm  

    Best get down to the temple to make amends.

    Hahaha… its been like 10 months since i’ve been to a temple. I generally dont go to a temple unless forced to..

  35. justforfun — on 20th December, 2006 at 5:35 pm  

    This must be a recent thing – malaria in Bombay – or was I just very very lucky? I cannot ever remember taking any sort of preventative malaria medication.

    Just googled malaria in India – it seems it has made a big comeback in the last 20 years after being nearly wiped out. Shame.

    Justforfun

  36. Vikrant — on 20th December, 2006 at 5:39 pm  

    Come monsoon and we have to face Leptospirosis, chickengunia (i know i’ve spelt it horribly wrong), Dengue and the list goes on… Blame it on the darn migrants!

  37. davetheslave — on 20th December, 2006 at 6:15 pm  

    Hej Sunny!
    You’ve been nominated for blogger of the year at CiF, and the NGN manifesto is up for thread of the year! Tell all of Pickled Politics’ regulars to get across and vote.

  38. Don — on 20th December, 2006 at 6:38 pm  

    Electro,

    I think you misunderstood me, I wasn’t referring to Sol Invictus but rather to the fact that winter solstice celebrations in the northern hemisphere long pre-date christianity. As do most of the ‘traditional’ aspects of the holiday.

    Even without the nativity, we’d still be holding a feast at this time of year, hanging up holly and mistletoe, exchanging gifts and greetings, catching up with kin and looking out for flying reindeer (and seeing them once the fly agaric kicked in).

    Christianity appropriated the celebration, some of the things it brought to the party are worthwhile. Others less so. However, I agree that the process of doing so was motivated by political manoueverings between competing power blocs.

    Season’s greetings.

  39. Jai — on 20th December, 2006 at 6:57 pm  

    =>”Is it just me, or did I hear David Bowie joke about “Asians coming down the chimney” in that YouTube clip?”

    Hmmm. Overweight uncle-type with a long beard, sneaking a sip from the brandy left by the fireplace. Definitely sounds Asian to me, especially the Punjabi variety…..

    With regards to the ongoing controversy about Hannukah, I give you Chrismukkah.

    Yeah I watch The OC. You got a problem with that ?! ;)

  40. bananabrain — on 21st December, 2006 at 9:13 am  

    *reaches for the AK47*

    URGHH!! i’ll be declaring war on “chrismukkah”. the two have absolutely nothing – repeat – *nothing* in common except that they’re sometimes around the same time of year. even the custom of giving hanukkah presents is only quite recent, because jewish kids started to ask why they were the only ones not getting presents. it dates back to the german custom of “hanukkah gelt”. bah, humbug. the same goes for anyone who tries “eastover”, “shavucost” or any more of this syncretist assimilationist crap.

    like most jewish festivals, hanukkah is basically reinforcing the following theme:

    1. they tried to kill us.
    2. we won.
    3. let’s eat.

    in this case:

    “they” – the seleucid greeks (heirs to 1/3 of the empire of alexander the great)
    “won” – by starting a civil war which was won by a woman (judith) getting the greek general holofernes drunk and then cutting off his head and suspending it from the city walls. that’s why we get a bit worried when the ladies start getting restless. kyle’s mom is a prime example.
    “eat” – oily food if you’re ashkenazi or dairy food if you’re sephardi.

    oh, and there was a miracle too. that’s what the candles are about.

    south park rules. anyone seen “jew scout camp”? that had me howling.

    b’shalom

    bananabrain

  41. Chairwoman — on 21st December, 2006 at 9:51 am  

    *Swaps doughnut for cheesecake with bananabrain*

  42. ZinZin — on 22nd December, 2006 at 5:06 pm  

    For some reason, I’ve always based my visualisation of Chairwoman on Kyle’s mum!

    Not just me then.

  43. ZinZin — on 22nd December, 2006 at 5:11 pm  

    Or Estelle Costanza.

  44. Chairwoman — on 22nd December, 2006 at 6:06 pm  

    I just love being sterotyped.

    May I refer you to my #24

  45. Chairwoman — on 22nd December, 2006 at 6:07 pm  

    ESTELLE CONSTANZA!!!!

  46. ZinZin — on 22nd December, 2006 at 6:08 pm  

    Your more than a sterotype you also started a war between Canada and the USA. That takes some effort. What an achievement.

  47. Electro — on 22nd December, 2006 at 6:36 pm  

    Agreed, Don. It’s just that I’ve been comming across the “Sol-Invictus” theme on a lot of threads lately.

    In any case, “Merry Christmas” sounds better than “Happy Solstice”.

    All the best to everyone!

  48. El Cid — on 22nd December, 2006 at 7:36 pm  

    Dear Katy,
    I tried to leave this on your website, but I couldn’t. So I have no choice but to say this here.
    That was fucking funny man, on the thread before this one! Did Jai really say that you were the most patient Pickler? Was that YOUR Olmert moment?
    Don’t be so silly!
    I step away to make Daddy’s luxurious lasagne, and when I come back, I’m being told to fuck off. Remember i’m not Anas, I don’t have a particular I/P agenda.. All these hissy fits don’t look good. I was only joking. You’re buzzing if you think I’m always on your case. I don’t know what you are talking about — really. Even if you might consider it baiting, my comment was meant as a friendly bit of banter. It certainly wasn’t designed to provoke you into a rage. After all, the article I was directing you to is one you no doubt concur with. It also followed on logically from Amir’s comment.
    Now what would your mum say?
    I just hope that your example of crude abuse is treated with the same poncey finger-wagging that mine was. We don’t want any of that public schoolboy, chattering class hypocrisy here, now do we?
    Anyway, tis the season of goodwill to all men and women. So chill out chiquita. Put on some Esbjorn Svensson Trio, uncork some Albarino, and knock up something tasty. Alternatively, go out, get pissed, and find yourself some love action.
    And Happy Hannukah!

  49. Katy — on 22nd December, 2006 at 9:20 pm  

    You make me laugh, El Cid, you really do. You’ve told people to fuck off on this site plenty of times for no good reason, and I have put up with months of baiting from you for no good cause without ever once having sunk to your level of aggression and profanity before. I don’t need lectures on good manners from you of all people.

    I do try to be patient with everyone but recently I’ve just had enough. I hope everyone else realises that I said I was leaving (a) because I meant it and (b) because I had had enough of you, amongst others. I changed my mind because enough people I liked and respected asked me to think about it and I realised that I would miss the people I liked more than I would be relieved to be rid of the people I didn’t. I am sorry that you think it was nothign but a hissy fit and I am aware that you think it was emotional blackmail. I am sure you would much rather I didn’t write for this site and I did say to Sunny and Leon when they asked me to reconsider that having said I was going I felt I ought to do it and not be seen as someone who throws wobblers for no reason. I took a couple of weeks break, I came back looking forward to contributing again and the moment you saw me on the site you started baiting me again.

    I don’t know what your problem with me is but I’m fed up with you, I’m fed up with your insults, the way you throw your weight around on this site and the way you throw everyone’s ethnicity in their face. You might not have an I/P agenda and I don’t think you’re an antisemite, but you certainly do have some sort of thing about antagonising me, because whenever IP comes up you take a pop at me, regardless of whether I’ve raised it or contributed to it or not. And I am not the only person who’s noticed or commented on that.

  50. Katy — on 22nd December, 2006 at 9:39 pm  

    Oh – and the reason I told you to fuck off was nothing to do with the article you posted, which I hadn’t even read. It was simply because you took a pop at me again and I’d had enough. Nothing to do with IP at all.

  51. Vikrant — on 22nd December, 2006 at 9:47 pm  

    Yep Billy lay off Katy (and public schools)…

  52. Sunny — on 22nd December, 2006 at 9:47 pm  

    El Cid – there is no need to dredge this up again, please. I don’t see any point in it and can either of us not re-visit this silly discussion again. Ever. Just please ignore each other. Please?

  53. The Ill Man — on 23rd December, 2006 at 12:50 am  

    Did you know………….Christmas day in Scotland never used to be a holiday (http://christmas-world.freeservers.com/scotland.html.)

    New Year on the other hand…………..

  54. douglas clark — on 23rd December, 2006 at 2:37 am  

    Katy,

    Well, I was going to comment, but maybe Sunny is right.

    Maybe not everyone can get along. But we can all ignore each other. Personally, I think life’s a bit like that. So I’m not expecting anyone to respond to this post.

    Elsewhere, we’d have a CiF type decision about banning one, t’other or both. Which would be ridiculous. I’d like to think PP was better than that sort of arbitrary, muscular, as in dicks on a table beside a three inch ruler, measuring up, shite.

    I’d like you to keep blogging, mainly ’cause I think what you have to say is interesting. Which is the point of blogging. I think. Y’know, other folk being influenced by what you say?

  55. El Cid — on 23rd December, 2006 at 9:55 am  

    This is frustrating, because I would rather say this to you one-on-one than on this site. But what you are saying is so blatantly unfucking true it is unbelievable. Months of baiting? You’re on drugs — bad drugs at that. You’d be laughed out of court. And if I swear more than your average Pickler maybe it’s because I’ve been dunked in a very different cultural soup to you. Aside from a stupid football argument about 9 months ago with Vikrant (sorry Viks — very insightful btw), I don’t think I have let myself down.
    “I am sure you would much rather I didn’t write for this site.” Where do you get this victimhood from? You’re good writer. I enjoyed your weekend open threads. Have you forgotten how nice I was to you when you first threatened to leave after stumbling across an Anas-Katy flame war? Have you forgotten how I could happily chat about the price of chicken with your mum? Pull yourself together woman, and stop being so girly and manipulative. You win some; you lose some. That is the lesson today. I thank you.
    Here’s my email address if you want to take this further: wdiaz@hotmail.co.uk

  56. Katy — on 23rd December, 2006 at 11:43 am  

    El Cid, your accusations of victimhood are getting old. It’s your stock response to everything I say. I’ve told you what I think of you straight out; there’s nothing manipulative about that, and nothing to take any further.

  57. Vikrant — on 23rd December, 2006 at 11:49 am  

    Here’s my email address if you want to take this further: wdiaz@hotmail.co.uk

    Billy,

    i wouldnt give my email address if i were you. Doubtlessly, you’ll soon be swamped by spam advertising viagraa and stoff like tat..

  58. Katy — on 23rd December, 2006 at 11:49 am  

    I didn’t realise that my email address wasn’t online anymore, and I get constant spam anyway. It is electrickaty@yahoo.co.uk

  59. Katy — on 23rd December, 2006 at 11:53 am  

    Douglas – I don’t want anyone to be banned, I just don’t want to be wound up anymore. I’m tired of it. I don’t do anything to invite it and it genuinely upsets me. That’s all. It’s like being in the playground here. You try to explain that you’re upset about something and there’s a certain kind of bloke – and it does always seem to be a bloke – who immediately sets out to wind you up as much as he can. I know that lots of people thrive on conflict and arguments and find them energising, but I’m not like that, it just drains me and upsets me, which is why I was going to stop contributing.

  60. ZinZin — on 23rd December, 2006 at 12:14 pm  

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/usguns/Story/0,,1977307,00.html

    For those who hate Christmas have some sympathy for these screwed up kids living in this town.

  61. Sidhartha Claus — on 23rd December, 2006 at 12:22 pm  

    Exchanging email addresses? hmmmmmm.

    Well I hope you guys manage to work it out offline, I mean off the pages of PP. There’s a strange Omnibus Edition to this dispute now.

    In the meantime, el cid, this song is for you. You know the words. Sing it baby.

  62. Chairwoman — on 23rd December, 2006 at 12:27 pm  

    The Guardian – ties with The Smiths as the two things most likely to send me to the barn with a shotgun.

  63. El Cid — on 23rd December, 2006 at 12:31 pm  

    Ha. Merry Christmas to you too Sid!
    Actually, at the risk of offending quite a few people on this blog, I was never into The Smiths.

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