What will Rod Liddle say now?


by Sunny
28th July, 2010 at 6:27 pm    

So yesterday, 27 year old Mo Farah won a £10,000 gold medal in the European championships, 17 years after arriving in Britain as a 10-year old Somali immigrant.

This is what Rod Liddle had to say about Somali immigrants on his blog:

Incidentally, many Somalis have come to Britain as immigrants recently, where they are widely admired for their strong work ethic, respect for the law and keen, piercing, intelligence

Of course, he meant that sarcastically.

Both Sunder Katwala and I look forward to Rod Liddle joining us in celebrating a Somali immigrant making Britain proud.


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  1. sunny hundal

    Blog post:: What will Rod Liddle say now? http://bit.ly/9HSnGT


  2. Chris D'Souza

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: What will Rod Liddle say now? http://bit.ly/9HSnGT




  1. Niels Christensen — on 28th July, 2010 at 7:16 pm  

    Sunni, Ron was cheap, but you are too.
    I also know a few Somali’s who immigrated to Denmark 15-20 years ago,
    who are doing really well. Because they are nice and very social people.
    But to deny, that there in many countries are big problems with the massive influx of somali fugitives are wrong.
    IT’s not their fault of course, that many western countries can’t absorb the number of fugitives arriving the last 10 years, but it’s still a problem.
    Now do you have any ideas in this regard ?

  2. Trofim — on 28th July, 2010 at 8:59 pm  

    My impression of Somali society is that it is nothing to offer anyone. If you want to convince me otherwise, don’t point me to a bloke who can run fast – what’s the value of that? Greyhounds, horses and cheethas can do that – only better. Show me instead some concrete examples of how Somalian philosophers, scientists, writers and artists and other cultural have contributed to the world. Can you name me any Somalian Nobel Prize winners?

    And as for “making Britain proud” – a left-wing blog is a curious place to find that sort of tabloidese. lefty blog?

  3. cjcjc — on 28th July, 2010 at 10:00 pm  

    He will say that Farah is the exception that proves the rule.

  4. Don — on 28th July, 2010 at 10:57 pm  

    Trofim,

    The self-adhesive postage stamp?

    But seriously, given its size, political instability, isolation and lack of resources Somalia is not doing too badly.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Somalis

  5. persephone — on 28th July, 2010 at 11:32 pm  

    What will Trofim say now?

  6. Sunny — on 29th July, 2010 at 12:26 am  

    Can you name me any Somalian Nobel Prize winners?

    Is that how we judge societies these days?

    And as for “making Britain proud” – a left-wing blog is a curious place to find that sort of tabloidese. lefty blog?

    I’m fully tabloid, me.

  7. Sunny — on 29th July, 2010 at 12:27 am  

    But to deny, that there in many countries are big problems with the massive influx of somali fugitives are wrong.

    What are the problems you’re referring to, first?

  8. Shamit — on 29th July, 2010 at 12:53 am  

    Rod liddle should stick with football.

    There is no shame in not understanding complicated issues but claiming to understand and passing judgement without intellectual rigour or at least some level of comprehension is criminal.
    *********************************
    Trofim –

    There’s nothing tabloid about making Britain proud and being a proud Briton is not against leftist principles.

    Farah’s success reflects well on British society as a whole. So next time a tabloid paints every asylum seeker with the same brush and you buy into that idiotic crap – maybe like Rod you would remember Farah.

  9. damon — on 29th July, 2010 at 2:32 am  

    Rod Liddle would probably say ”so what?”
    And then speak of his admiration for the athletic prowess of long distance runners from that part of the world, and about some great new African youngster that Millwall had signed.

    He then might mention the ”great migration” of Somali’s who were already citizens of other EU countries, who moved to England between 2002 and 2004 according to this PDF
    ”The Demographics of Leicester, July 2009 – By Leicester City Council” Page 9

    most arrived 2002-2004, approx 6,000–10,000, most EU nationals

    still some asylum seekers arriving

    impact on city – significant demand on services – housing, education, health, employment

    He then might point out that the St Matthew’s ward of Leicester where many of the Somalis have settled is the second poorest council ward in England.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8267052.stm

    I reckon he’d say something like that.

  10. Cauldron — on 29th July, 2010 at 4:34 am  

    One individual’s success, or failure, neither proves nor disproves the wider demographic point. When making public policy decisions it’s the averages that matter.

    If you look at broad-based averages on the things that really determine whether any particular group adds or subtracts value to its host country – education rates, labour force participation, incarceration rates – it’s hard to deny that Somalis are the world’s most useless diaspora.

    I don’t see the point in pretending that all migrant groups are equal. They aren’t. Some groups work hard, educate their kids and open small businesses. Others collect housing benefits and practice FGM.

    It is perfectly legitimate for UK migration policy to differentiate between those nations whose migrants who are, on average, superior to the indigenous population and those who are, on average, inferior. The UK is under zero obligation to absorb underperforming cultures and indeed government has a fiduciary responsibility to obstruct chain migration from such places.

  11. saeed — on 29th July, 2010 at 9:57 am  

    Cauldron, you never heard of somaliland i take it….

  12. Cauldron — on 29th July, 2010 at 10:22 am  

    I think Somaliland is great. I wish the West would offer diplomatic recognition. (But presumably, not wishing to be condemned as neo-colonialists, the West is waiting for the AU to take the lead.)

    I take your point that migrants from Somaliland might not be a net drain on their host societies in the way that people from Somalia seem to be, but I am not aware of any statistics one way or the other relating to specifically to the Somaliland diaspora.

  13. Pete — on 29th July, 2010 at 1:43 pm  

    Liddle is a race-baiting sack of shit. Who cares what he thinks about anything?

  14. Trofim — on 29th July, 2010 at 2:00 pm  

    sunny @ 6:
    I personally believe that a Nobel prize is a good rough measure of a nation’s cultural and intellectual worth.

    shamit @ 8:

    “There’s nothing tabloid about making Britain proud and being a proud Briton is not against leftist principles.

    Farah’s success reflects well on British society as a whole”.

    I can’t really grasp what it means to be proud of a country. I value countries by their cultural values and whether they are nice to live in. I can think of a number of countries in which, were it not for certain familial and cultural ties, I might be happier to live. I can think of some good things about the UK, but the phrase “proud of my country” is semantically anomalous to me. To be proud of something, you have to be responsible in some way for it. Proud of a child, a painting, a book – yes, but to be “proud” of a country simply because a person who has well-developed leg muscles lives within the same administrative territory is a peculiar idea. Ditto 11 people who kick a ball, or for that matter, are good at anything. If his success “reflects well on British society as a whole”, what about the 61 odd million people who CAN’T do it? It’s all so much tosh. Meaningless platitudes.

  15. Don — on 29th July, 2010 at 2:51 pm  

    I personally believe that a Nobel prize is a good rough measure of a nation’s cultural and intellectual worth.

    And yet in your final paragraph you find the idea that people who are ‘good at anything at all’ reflecting well on a society as a whole to be a meaningless platitude.

    I might well agree with your latter point, but does it not contradict your former?

  16. Don — on 29th July, 2010 at 3:02 pm  

    As for the Nobel prize being some sort of gold standard, Obama’s was unearned (while ‘not being G.W. Bush’ is admirable it is scarcely enough to warrant acclaim) and Kissinger’s was bizzare.

    The following link is to a humour site. Just sayin’.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_18638_4-nobel-prize-winners-who-were-clearly-insane.html

  17. boyo — on 29th July, 2010 at 3:43 pm  

    @2 ayaan hirsi ali.

    She may not have won the Nobel, but she should.

  18. Trofim — on 29th July, 2010 at 5:17 pm  

    Don @ 15 and 16

    Yes, superficially my last point might seem to contradict my first re the Nobel, but in the first, I guess I’m talking about numbers, that is, which countries consistently achieve a prize, particularly in the hard end of the prize spectrum, that is the sciences, graduating through cultural to the peace prize at the least credible end.
    My point is that whereas the denizens of Pickled Politics and any other leftish media organ will comprehensively and swiftly denounce any attempt to generalise from an individual to a race, they are here perfectly willing to generalise from an individual to a nation. Inconsistent, or what? And, ahem, I must point out that Somalia is a Muslim country, and as Pervez Hoodbhoy has pointed out, there is a paucity of creative scientists in Muslim nations:

    http://secularpakistan.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/pervez-amirali-hoodbhoy-islam-and-science-have-parted-ways/

    “He also writes about the self-enforced backwardness of the Muslim world in science, technology, trade, and education”.

    And I omitted to mention one great Somalian – thank you boyo @ 17 above. But ironically she’s great precisely for rejecting the Somalian values inculcated in her.

    [Incidentally, what happened to the comment editing function?]

  19. Don — on 29th July, 2010 at 6:42 pm  

    Sorry, I’ll try to be less superficial.

    In terms of numbers there certainly seems to be a high correlation between a high number of Nobels per capita and secularism, with Scandanavian countries scoring very highly.

    The USA, arguably the least secular of wealthy industrialised democracies comes in at 15th. Which, considering its wealth and resources is not too impressive.

    However, if we disregard small countries with only one or two, which might be regarded as fliers (no disrespect to the Faroes, Saint Lucia or Iceland)or those with a significant proportion of Peace or Literature prizes (ditto Israel and Ireland)we get; Switzerland, Sweden, Austria, Denmark, Norway, UK, Germany, Netherlands, USA, Hungary.

    The lowest scoring ten include South Korea, which is actually quite a secular nation, Columbia, Vietnam, India, Pakistan, China (secular? I’m not sure.), and Nigeria.

    But these figures are since the inception of the prize, so it is scarcely surprising that the early industrialised nations would score more highly in scientific advances.

    So although it is superficially plausible to correlate religious belief with losing out on Nobels, it doesn’t really add up on closer examination.

    And nor does your suggestion that a Nobel prize is a good rough measure of a nation’s cultural and intellectual worth.

    I don’t think it is a measure of anything of anything significant.

  20. Don — on 29th July, 2010 at 7:25 pm  

    But, yes, edit function is missed.

  21. Niels Christensen — on 29th July, 2010 at 8:01 pm  

    #7 Sunny

    “But to deny, that there in many countries are big problems with the massive influx of somali fugitives are wrong.
    What are the problems you’re referring to, first?”

    Well massive unemployment. Somalis have the lowest rate of employment of all migration/fugitive etnic groups in all countries in northern europe.
    Both men and women.
    The results in schooling doesn’t look better, but of course the two things go hand in hand.
    Of course one of the reasons is that they still arrive and is ‘late comers’
    But excuses doesn’t make the problem any less.
    Now I don’t know the state in England, one of the reasons could be that no one knows the number of somalis living here.
    It’s well known as mentioned above, that many somalis move to England after having gained papers in other EU countries.

  22. ray — on 29th July, 2010 at 8:36 pm  

    Niels Christensen= nazi turd boy

  23. Don — on 29th July, 2010 at 9:21 pm  

    ray/me/blah/etc

    Go away.

  24. Boyo — on 29th July, 2010 at 11:27 pm  

    Ayan Hirsi Ali is quite plain about the influences of Somali immigration as far as her experience went (along with her own deception to get to the West, for which she was hounded out of the Netherlands).

    It is ironic that the “Progressive” Left seeks to have it both ways – at once to celebrate cultural difference and at the same time to deny it.

    According to AYA many Somalis regard Western attitudes to welfare etc absurd and basically as fools who deserve to be ripped off. This is but one reason why she is held in such contempt by the PL for challenging their narrative – to the extent, as I referred to above, that they actually forced in to exile one Somali woman who embodied the very values (equality, secularism etc) that they supposedly stand for.

    This is clear evidence that the PL is fundamentally racist.

  25. Boyo — on 29th July, 2010 at 11:33 pm  

    The racism of the PL is should not actually be surprising, because it is anything but progressive – instead it stands for the perpetuation of the status quo. Hence – celebrate “difference”, even it means inequality. Promote immigration, not as equal citizens but as eternal outsiders – celebrate “your” culture but never be properly English, etc.

    All of this fits the fundamentally bourgeois character of the PL, which exists for the maintenance of the status quo – divide and rule is the rule, basically.

  26. Boyo — on 29th July, 2010 at 11:38 pm  

    Although i should add, i don’t think Sunny is sitting at his laptop thinking – hm, how next can i disrupt working class solidarity?!

    It’s a bigger process than all of us…;-)

  27. douglas clark — on 29th July, 2010 at 11:46 pm  

    Sunny,

    I think Rod Liddle is an idiot. What that person achieved was down to them as an individual. This wrapping failure or success in some sort of badge of national worth is just wrong.

    Alan Wells won the Olympic Gold in Moscow and then beat all the ‘boycott nations’ in, if I remember correctly, Berlin.

    What the heck has he, a fellow Scot, got to do with me?

    I didn’t have a say in the economic system that produced him, I certainly didn’t provide him with free porridge. It was his personal ambition and dedication that won him his sucess.

    Greatness comes from the individual, not their bloody background.

    That’s all I’m sayin’

  28. douglas clark — on 29th July, 2010 at 11:59 pm  

    And Boyo @ 24,

    You are so guilty of attribution of stereotypes.

    Why should anyone be categorised just because of their background?

    It is a sort of race to the bottom for you, isn’t it?

    It is, in fact, racism.

  29. persephone — on 30th July, 2010 at 12:09 am  

    agreed @27

  30. john — on 30th July, 2010 at 1:03 am  

    Boyo

    “Ayan Hirsi Ali is quite plain about the influences of Somali immigration as far as her experience went (along with her own deception to get to the West, for which she was hounded out of the Netherlands).”

    Right so we should accept the word of a Somali immigrant who is a self-confessed liar about her own life story… because she is critical of other Somali immigrants….
    Funny that you say she was “hounded out of the Netherlands” . I assume you’d say the same about all Somali immigrants forced to leave because they were caught lying, not just the ones that abuse Islam/other Somalis.

  31. Boyo — on 30th July, 2010 at 7:35 am  

    Douglas, you’re talking in riddles again ;-)

    John, I was surprised not to see you on the “Tentacles of Israel” thread – all your theories about the conspiracy of international bankers would have been confirmed!

  32. Trofim — on 30th July, 2010 at 9:23 am  

    john @ 30:

    Hands up all those who have ever told a lie.

    To those of you who put your hand up:

    Everything you have ever said, and ever will say, is completely without foundation.

  33. cjcjc — on 30th July, 2010 at 9:32 am  

    @Trofim

    haha – very good!

  34. Niels Christensen — on 31st July, 2010 at 1:43 pm  

    #Ray

    If it makes my a ‘nazi turd boy’ to raise social problems, then okay.

    Everyone with just minimal knowledge of the last 100 years history of welfare states i Northern Europe knows, that one of their strengths has been the ability to talk straight of social problems and problems of distinct groups. If we stop doing that because some of the groups now are immigrants/fugitives, then it will be the end of the welfare state, as we know it.

  35. Trofim — on 31st July, 2010 at 4:58 pm  

    Besides which, the concept of representing a country is now such a flexible evanescent notion. Merlene Ottey won numerous medals running for Jamaica, now she runs for Slovenia. Should Slovenia be proud of her, or Jamaica, or both, or neither? Ditto numerous athletes who one day were running for Kenya or Ethiopia, and next day, hey presto, they’re running for Sweden or Turkey. The whole idea of being proud because of the actions of one of its citizens is incomprehensible to me.

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