Opposing the call for EDL march in Bradford to be banned


by Sunny
26th July, 2010 at 5:22 pm    

The Telegraph and Argus have this front page.

Hope Not Hate are also running a petition to stop the march in Bradford.

I think the English Defence League are full of far-right racists and people out to create trouble.

But as I’ve said before, I do not want to see protests and marches by any groups banned, even if they’re the far-right.

It creates a very dangerous culture of people calling for bans of any marches by people they don’t like.


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Filed in: Civil liberties,Race politics






48 Comments below   |  

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  1. sunny hundal

    Blog post:: Opposing the call for EDL march in Bardford to be banned http://bit.ly/aB4ddT


  2. Old Holborn

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: Opposing the call for EDL march in Bardford to be banned http://bit.ly/aB4ddT


  3. Charlotte Gore

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: Opposing the call for EDL march in Bardford to be banned http://bit.ly/aB4ddT


  4. Nameless Libertarian

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: Opposing the call for EDL march in Bardford to be banned http://bit.ly/aB4ddT


  5. Roger Thornhill

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: Opposing the call for EDL march in Bardford to be banned http://bit.ly/aB4ddT


  6. Sean McHale

    Sometimes I wish 'Hope not Hate' could be banned – http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/9382


  7. sunny hundal

    @hesspartacus really? http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/9382


  8. Lucien de la Peste

    RT @sunny_hundal: @hesspartacus really? http://bit.ly/9j2Dja So I guess that makes you a left wing libertarian. One out of two ain't bad.




  1. Xena Foebeck — on 26th July, 2010 at 5:28 pm  

    Fine. If you’re happy to foot the bill for the policing and inevitable costs of repairing the vandalism from violent lager louts please make your donations to Bradford City Council.

    And the EDL are fast becoming a terrorist organisation.
    http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/07/26/exclusive-edl-members-arrested-over-suspected-mosque-bomb-plot/

  2. Sunny — on 26th July, 2010 at 5:35 pm  

    Fine. If you’re happy to foot the bill for the policing and inevitable costs of repairing the vandalism from violent lager louts please make your donations to Bradford City Council.

    I think the state should pay for policing protests regardless of the cost.

    Or else you have the situation where a police force, with pressure from local politicians, will force plays to shut down because of the supposed cost of policing.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behzti

    We have to protect free speech – simple.

  3. MaidMarian — on 26th July, 2010 at 6:38 pm  

    I’m not sure that large scale damage to civic property qualifies as free speech.

    Leaving this aside, I am getting a bit bothered by how easily the EDL, like the BNP before them, are getting the media interested. This is likely a very small scale protest. That is not to say it is nice, but it hardly seems like something that will bring the country down.

  4. Jai — on 26th July, 2010 at 7:18 pm  

    The EDL has begin buying body armour (including stab vests) and Islamic clothing such as burkhas in bulk in preparation for their impending “demonstration” in Bradford, promised by the EDL to be a “bloodbath”:

    http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/07/25/exclusive-edl-bulk-buys-islamic-gear-for-bradford-demo/

    The EDL is openly calling their impending Bradford demo “the mother of all race riots”, and members have also begun openly suggesting terrorist attacks involving blowing up multiple mosques and petrol-bombing shops owned by Muslims. They’ve also started dropping any pretence about being opposed solely to Islamist extremism and are now explicitly discussing their hostility towards Muslims en masse:

    http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/07/21/edl-terrorists-prepare-for-bradfords-armageddon/

  5. Jai — on 26th July, 2010 at 7:19 pm  

    The EDL are no longer targetting solely Muslims. They went on a rampage during their recent demonstration in Dudley and 50-60 of their members launched a violent attack against a Hindu temple, with numerous Hindus trapped inside:

    http://uaf.org.uk/2010/07/edl-attack-on-dudley-hindu-temple-confirmed/

    http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/07/21/edl-rampage-after-failure-in-dudley/

  6. MaidMarian — on 26th July, 2010 at 7:34 pm  

    Jai – with respect (and I do mean that).

    That link of yours kind of demonstrates the problem with burkas though doesn’t it? Masks are either ok or they are not. I have little sympathy for muslims on the burka argument.

    You can not in one breath demand a right for people to wear them, just not EDF members. Legislating for motive is the worst of all worlds.

    My suspicion is that the EDF, like the BNP have a media presence well in excess of their true reach, but they are using it very effectively.

  7. Barbarossa — on 26th July, 2010 at 8:23 pm  

    That attack wasn’t the EDL but a muslim gang, EDL haven’t attacked or protested against Hindus because 80% of temples bookstores don’t sell the equivalent of jihadi lit. Hindus haven’t bombed or threatened to “conquer the UK”. you lot are starting to believe your own propaganda, Hence the drivel you write so utterly divorced from reality.

  8. me — on 26th July, 2010 at 8:30 pm  

    “EDL haven’t attacked or protested against Hindus because 80% of temples bookstores don’t sell the equivalent of jihadi lit”

    Yes they do. A large proportion of UK Hindu temples are controlled by RSS/BJP/VHP Nazis who commit genocide against Muslims and Christians in India

  9. earwicga — on 26th July, 2010 at 8:32 pm  

    Fair enough, support a protest. But the EDL aren’t protesting are they? They are demonstrating hatred for all Muslims. There’s no reason to enable them to do this en masse.

  10. Xena Foebeck — on 26th July, 2010 at 8:45 pm  

    @Sunny There’s free speech and there’s abusing free speech, particularly when it involves incitement to violence in the EDL’s case.

    Would you suggest the ban on Islam4UK is lifted? Because I can’t see the difference between them and the EDL.

  11. Barbarossa — on 26th July, 2010 at 8:53 pm  

    Well, you are entitled to your opinion absolutely but so are they. By mistakenly identifying their(edl) motivations, the element that describes itself as the “progressive” left from an initial misdiagnosis every analysis afterward is crap.

  12. Xena Foebeck — on 26th July, 2010 at 9:00 pm  

    There’s a difference between offering an ‘opinion’ and direct calls to murder people.

    http://twitpic.com/photos/exposetweets

  13. Barbarossa — on 26th July, 2010 at 9:30 pm  

    I’m not condoning calls for the murder of people. That really hasn’t much to say about the point I’m clearly unable to communicate. The EDL are a response to muslim radicalization and supremacist material emanating from Sunni and Shia mosques all over the UK, somebody is desperate to characterize them as racists, while the outfit may have some racist shitsacks in it. The more they are mis-characterized and repressed, more radical
    groups will grow out of EDL. I’ve already seen reports of elements of the EDL talking to unionist groups in northern Ireland. Maybe that’s just propaganda, maybe not. The uaf are idiots, for islamists “useful idiots”, their leadership are a “clinging to a dead ideology” marxists, not a source of leadership or reliable analysis, these moron’s believe their utopia is inevitable with all the fervor of a fundamentalist christian another group with typical little respect for rationality or the use of reason if it conflicts with their preconceived notions of what is happening.

  14. MaidMarian — on 26th July, 2010 at 10:08 pm  

    ‘The EDL are a response to muslim radicalization and supremacist material emanating from Sunni and Shia mosques all over the UK.’

    An awful lot of people are unhappy about so-called radical Islam. They do not however go onto the streets and attack others. That the EDL are a ‘response’ does not somehow offer a veneer of legitimacy.

  15. Xena Foebeck — on 26th July, 2010 at 10:23 pm  

    @Barbarossa. It’s not very clear what point you’re trying to convey; you’d be making your case much clearer without posting in riddles.

    If, like you claim, there is an increase of radicalisation of Muslims, how exactly does having intimidating large groups of ‘tooled up’ football hooligans and ex-convicts chanting “Allah is a paedo” and other obcenities go to remedying the situation?

  16. Barbarossa — on 26th July, 2010 at 10:40 pm  

    Really? any muslim in the UK with ties(sympathizes) to the muslim brotherhood is essentially a colonist, which turns the EDL into an anti-colonist resistance movement. To be colonized sucks ass, such is the testimony of history. Anti-colonial Resistance movements are commonly lauded as “legitimate” What are you saying, that English people don’t have the right resist colonization?

  17. Barbarossa — on 26th July, 2010 at 11:03 pm  

    Xena

    “like I claim” I don’t claim anything islamic radicalization and it’s growth are are well documented. Police and Intelligence services by their own admission are groaning under the weight of policing the muslim community. What ideological blinders are you wearing?

    I don’t think that street mobs help anyone, just as not all muslims are terrorist, neither are all EDL racists, many are …as they describe themselves, patriots. The radicalization of muslims has occurred before this current round justifications used by ottoman turks are the same as those used by other islamists today. Whether “groups of ‘tooled up’ football hooligans and ex-convicts chanting “Allah is a paedo” and other obcenities” exist or not. It is like the arguement that the rise in islamic supremacism is tied to Afghanistan or the idiousy in Iraq, without mentioning the biggest islamist organization in the world the ikwan, or muslim brotherhood, was founded in the 1920′s, or the first attack on the world trade center was long before any of the self-flagellating “why do they hate us?” crap from so many of the self-described progressives in the West.

  18. damon — on 27th July, 2010 at 1:39 am  

    Like FGM, the thing about this EDL march is, what are you going to do about it?

    Ban it? I say no, like Sunny.
    Have a daft UAF protest against it?
    I say no there too.

    It only ends up in trouble, and the last thing you want is having a punch up that takes a turn for the worse, and ends up with rioting in Manningham like in 2001.

    This EDL march will surely be a provocation, but dealing it would require leadership beyond what the UAF are offering. Leave it to the police I say, and pass that message on to the people of Bradford.
    A dignified restraint would be far better than winding up all the frustrated youngsters who want to fight back.

    Some people got very upset about a march they didn’t want coming near there area in Belfast a couple of weeks ago – and that ended up with three nights of serious rioting. It would have been so much better just to have ignored it.

    Btw, I’m not very impressed with those links Jai did to ”One Million United”. Way too alarmist IMO.

    This one is a complete joke.
    http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/07/21/edl-terrorists-prepare-for-bradfords-armageddon/

  19. Sunny — on 27th July, 2010 at 1:56 am  

    which turns the EDL into an anti-colonist resistance movement

    What do the EDL have against colons, especially since they chat so much shit?

  20. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 27th July, 2010 at 7:49 am  

    The EDL are no longer targetting solely Muslims

    Were they ever solely targeting Muslims? I seem to recall that they require both ‘jews’ AND ‘ragheads’ to vacate Europe as soon as possible.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_C0elMUI6cdk/S1usutq3pQI/AAAAAAAAAb8/41farnbkYMQ/s1600-h/edlstoke.jpg

    I don’t know that this should be banned, but there needs to be a demarcation between ‘political organisation’ and ‘criminal conspiracy’ how many pogroms do there have to be, how many john laidlaws going on shooting sprees are required before the state says – “actually, no”?

  21. Barbarossa — on 27th July, 2010 at 8:31 am  

    Maybe you would prefer… settlers. sunny,

  22. Xena Foebeck — on 27th July, 2010 at 9:13 am  

    It would seem the EDL’s new leader Kevin Carroll has been using the twat-o-tron in his cringeworthy attempts to communicate with the public.

    http://twitpic.com/2935s5

    http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/the-twat-o-tron/

    If the EDL start a tin foil hat division – i’m in!

  23. Jai — on 27th July, 2010 at 9:24 am  

    Some more background information about the EDL:

    - Highlights from the BBC’s recent documentary about the EDL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bxzH9fxIko

    - The results of an investigation by the Guardian, including undercover video footage, exposing the EDL’s aims to target areas with Muslim populations this summer in order to deliberate provoke large-scale disorder in Britain. The EDL are also persistently exposed as an extremely racist organisation and lying about their alleged opposition solely to “militant Islam”:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/28/english-defence-league-guardian-investigation

  24. Jai — on 27th July, 2010 at 9:25 am  

    (continued)

    Another article providing further background information about the EDL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/28/english-defence-league-protest-bnp

    Further evidence of the EDL’s plans to deliberately incite violence in Bradford this August:

    http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/06/02/exc-bradford-threats-continue/

  25. Jai — on 27th July, 2010 at 9:26 am  

    (continued)

    Background information about Alan Lake, the EDL’s main financier (who views the EDL as a “street army”), along with a number of other key figures involved in the organisation:

    http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/features/Businessman-bankrolls-street-army.php

  26. platinum786 — on 27th July, 2010 at 9:33 am  

    I hope they get exactly what they want.

  27. boyo — on 27th July, 2010 at 9:37 am  

    @4 really jai, perhaps im getting long in the tooth, but im sure i used to hear the same sort of thing about trade unionists in the 1970s

    which is not to say the edl may well morph in to a violent racist movement – thats certainly where everyone from mi5 to bnp to far left would like it to go – but im not sure it is there yet?

  28. Jai — on 27th July, 2010 at 9:49 am  

    Some more information about the attack on the Hindu temple, from the 2nd link provided in #5 above:

    Groups of the EDL thugs broke through police lines and went on the rampage. They smashed the windows of houses, shops and cars.

    Residents in the area are mainly white, but a Balti restaurant was targeted and its window smashed.

    The EDL claims that it only opposes “Muslim extremists” but supporters showed their racist colours when they attacked the Hindu temple on King Street.

    “Fifty or 60 of them broke down the fencing outside to get into the temple grounds,” Gian Narad, the temple’s treasurer told Socialist Worker.

    “They threw bricks and stones at the building, smashing three windows. They also broke all the handrails and used them to attack the building. It was frightening for the people inside at the time.”

    The police confirmed that they are investigating the attack.

  29. cjcjc — on 27th July, 2010 at 9:58 am  

    “Further evidence of the EDL’s plans to deliberately incite violence in Bradford this August:

    http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/06/02/exc-bradford-threats-continue/

    Those are the raving fantasies of a UAF loon, not evidence of anything.

  30. Jai — on 27th July, 2010 at 10:16 am  

    People can read through the other links in #23-25 and make up their own minds.

    Even the Daily Mail is openly referring to the EDL as “fascists”:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1282483/Children-draped-English-flags-fascist-protest-march-Newcastle.html

  31. Rumbold — on 27th July, 2010 at 10:56 am  

    Jai:

    Even the Daily Mail is openly referring to the EDL as “fascists”

    But they mean it as a compliment.

  32. damon — on 27th July, 2010 at 11:57 am  

    Ha, me. So what are you going to do? Go up there and bash some EDL skulls? What are you, some student revolutionary or something?

    Oh hang on, I just saw your post @8.

  33. Don — on 27th July, 2010 at 12:39 pm  

    “If we didn’t have Nick Griffin, life in Britain would surely be poorer, ”

    His parents would be richer, though.

  34. damon — on 27th July, 2010 at 12:43 pm  

    You don’t need to go undercover into a moosque me, you just go in as you are. Everyone’s welcome.
    Is that what got your goat? …. Yes I can see that would upset some people. But I like the start of prayers. Right after the sermon, when it just begins. Shouldn’t I be there or something?
    I also like going along to christian services sometimes – big deal.

    I see your level from the way you’ve taken that quote from the other thread and used it here.

    This is the kind of person that has to be kept away from Bradford if trouble is to be avoided.
    No good will come of it.

  35. Sunny — on 27th July, 2010 at 1:35 pm  

    But they mean it as a compliment.

    hahha!

  36. me — on 27th July, 2010 at 2:52 pm  

    damon
    “You don’t need to go undercover into a moosque me, you just go in as you are. Everyone’s welcome.
    Is that what got your goat? ”

    No retard. Its your going there with the intention to spy on what happens, not to pray/worship God, and report back what people have been saying there.You little BNP snitch.

  37. Don — on 27th July, 2010 at 3:28 pm  

    me,

    a. I thought you were banned as a sock-puppetting troll.

    b. ‘Retard’ seems to be acceptable usage in the US, but it is still offensive. Expand your vocabulary. Or better yet, go away.

  38. Golam Murtaza — on 27th July, 2010 at 4:43 pm  

    I live in this neck of the woods, and I can honestly say that the prospect of an EDL demo in Bradford city centre doesn’t bother me too much, so long as it’s well policed. And I’m reasonably confident it will be I just won’t go into the centre that day – no problem.

    Having said that, I understand it is a very different prospect for people who, for whatever reason, have no other choice than to be in that area at the time. Also central Bradford is in a bit of an economic mess at the moment, so anything which deters trade would obviously not be great…

  39. larry — on 27th July, 2010 at 8:54 pm  

    @ Jai

    These apocalyptic links are ludicrous in the main with some relating on bloody screenshots a single facebook entry as proof!

    Mostly they seem to be extremely biased sources and the one at #5 and #28 links to the hysterical blog using that kind of flimsy crap above which in turn uses the bloody Socialist Worker as its own source!

    You must be wired tight and paranoid as fuck if this is the kind of stuff you read all day Jai!

    Calm down, take a deep breath, check under the bed and realise that these rags need this crap to thrive. I doubt even 5% is true.

  40. Jai — on 28th July, 2010 at 2:24 pm  

    An interesting Daily Mail article investigating the EDL from earlier this year, along the same lines as the Guardian articles mentioned previously:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1238213/This-England-On-trail-English-Defence-League.html

    It also turns out that British intelligence organisations focusing on domestic counter-terrorism are already monitoring the EDL.

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