It shows two things. First, the importance of having people of various backgrounds to give us different perspectives. Second, the difficulty in resolving this I/P conflict: we all share the same core values, and yet it feels like everyone is out of control when discussing this subject. Surely, no one is lying or being dishonest.

I feel, like El Cid, that Israel’s actions in Lebanon were an outrage for moral reasons, let alone bringing any benefit for Israelis. However, I felt that Chairwoman’s response in #22 was that Israel made a mistake. And I think the main objection to her comment was that she didn’t condemn Israel in harsher terms.

I guess we are all guilty of this. We can criticise our country… but we get defensive when other people do it, specially when they bring only one side of the story or worst, pictures of dead children from one side of the conflict.

Pah El Cid,
If you want me to ‘go fuck’ myself your going to have to try a whole lot harder than that.

‘Like Katy and banabrain, I am, reluctantly, bowing out of PP. A lot of it has been fun, but this thread has displayed its true colours.’

Please reconsider, not least because you will all be missed and please bear in in mind it’s only a minority of commentators that appear to have some issues with Jewishness.

I’m sorry to have offended you, as I do value you, and I am not accusing you of anti-semitism. But you have repeatedly and strongly dismissed Katy’s and Chairwoman’s position on I/P as being invalidated by intrinsic jewish bias. You also attack other posters as being invalidated by intrinsically moslem bias. Sometimes that’s fair, sometimes it isn’t.

I can see Katy being pissed of at comments like #113. I think you were out of order, I hope we are still ok.

Any analogies for this?

If the intent was to lay waste a fellow democracy and its infrastructure then it was both disgraceful and a crime.

Now I know I will be accused of dissembling, but IMHO Olmert had a Rush Of Blood to the Head. He went in without a gameplan, and with no experienced hand on his shoulder to tell him to take a deep breath. While I am sure that Shimon Perez would have tried to reason with him, but there is always a couple of hotheads around to encourage this sort of lunacy.

So no, although the results are the same as if the intention was the destruction of Lebanon, I feel that the tail wagged the dog, and he has been left with a disaster he has no idea how to rectify.

— I’ll stop challenging people in the habit of saying adverse things about “Jews” (oh it still happens, mainly amongst older folks)
— I’ll stop my unofficial grassroots campaign trying persuade Spurs fans that they should stop referring to themselves as “yids” and I will trying in turn to stop Arsenal fans from calling them “fucking yids” because more impressionable youngsters of all races wwere picking up some very nasty songs.
— I won’t take my kids to a Nazi concentration camp so that they appreciate the full horrors of the Holocaust. Shit, too late! I did that for that the October half-term when I took advantage of a conference in Munich to holiday in Germany. Dachau is just outside Munich don’t you know.
— I will also cut off all ties with my mate the jewish consultant and try to persuade my wife to change boss because she has a jewish boss.
— I will also stop watching Curb your Enthusiasm and reveal my true colours, for I am Mel Gibson

Aint that the fucking truth.

Please, please. Sid was pursuing a debate vigorously and has generously and honestly apologised for any offence. You guys are too valuable to lose.

El Cid,

I have long regarded you as a ‘mate’ in these debates, but #113 is polarising and Katy is right to take offence. If she cares to take you on, mano-a-mano, then this is the place to do it. And I think you’ll come off second best. I respect many of your standpoints, but I do think you have issues with jewishness which you should consider.

Fuck’s sake, we all know each other well enough to back off a little. It’s a hot issue, people get heated. But this is not a single issue site; bugger NGN, this squabbling, argumentative, but ultimately functioning community is Sunny’s real legacy.

Same here. But we’re Jewish, aren’t we, so we’re apologists for Israel even when… we aren’t apologising for them.