Sharia in Britain


by Sunny
1st December, 2006 at 3:50 pm    

I can’t say it better than Osama Saeed, who rightly takes to task the idiotic headlines in the Daily Telegraph and Daily Express about Sharia law ‘reaching Britain’. For God’s sakes, get some perspective you dimwits.

Through him, I also find this article by Victoria Brittain on how badly Abdul Kahar has been harassed by the police since he spoke out against the very-badly-executed Forest Gate raid. Article well worth reading.


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Filed in: Civil liberties,Religion






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  1. Electro — on 1st December, 2006 at 4:49 pm  

    Is this the same Victoria Brittain who was declared brain-dead a few years back?

    If she wrings hands in angst over a botched raid, then what did she do immediately after 7/7?

    Blame the police?

    Sunny, in a spirit of jest; were I to print out every article you describe as “well worth reading”, I’d never have to buy lavatory paper again.

  2. Douglas Clark — on 1st December, 2006 at 6:41 pm  

    Electro,

    Re Forrest Gate, there does seem to be a little vindictiveness going on here, don’t you think? Y’know, on the part of the Police who completely and utterly botched it. Or their intelligence agencies, who led them nowhere?

    How’d you like it if chez Electro was busted, Electro was shot, they found nothing on the charge sheet, and discovered something else about you. Hypothetically, stealing electricity, say. I’d say it was a bum rap, much as Forrest Gate was.

    I’d say they were trying to justify the unjustifiable.
    I’d argue that state careers and pensions were at stake and that it was a cover up. You, on the other hand, would not.

    Yes, I do blame the Police. Or their Intelligence.

    You are sleepwalking into a Police State, where whatever APCO want, APCO gets, from supine and stupid politicians.

  3. soru — on 1st December, 2006 at 8:00 pm  

    Blame where blames due: when some media story like the Kahar one quotes ‘the police’ as saying something, 9 times out of 10 what that means that a journalist went through his entire contact book of coppers, ex-coppers, police IT support, and probably the people who serve up the food in the canteen, until he found one that was prepared to agree with the quote the journalist wanted to use.

    The other 1 in 10, the same but without the phone bill.

  4. Electro — on 1st December, 2006 at 8:02 pm  

    Douglas, we are in a Police State and we got there by blindly “celebrating” diversity and by assuming that all cultures are of equal value.

    They aren’t.

    To be clear, I’m talking of cultural cassette and NOT skin-colour.

    If we are to condemn the authories for a lack of intelligence, then let’s discuss their failure to anticipate 7/7. Afterall, what’s worse…a botched raid ore 60-odd dead people?

    It isn’t the elites who are supine and stupid….they are rancid and *appatride*… but rather the British public, cowed into submission, their goodwill abused, their critisms and unease silenced by intimidation and the threat of being labeled racist and/or bigot.

    And this, in one of the most densely populated nations on earth.

    THAT is what has destroyed the “rule of law”; the whole legal/judicial systeme is swamped, it simply cannot handle the demand.

    In other words, brute force is just about all we’re left with.

    Wish I could be a little more upbeat….

  5. raz — on 1st December, 2006 at 9:14 pm  

    Don’t be so damn pathetic Electro. Countries like Indian and Pakistan, despite being much poorer and less developed than the UK, have endured terrorism of a vastly greater magnitude to anything seen on 7/7 for decades now, and yet the terrorists haven’t won a single thing yet. This absurd sky-is-falling reaction to the, relatively speaking, minor threat of terrorism to the UK is laughable. To think a nation which once stood up to Hitler’s blitz has become so pathetic that even 4 losers blowing up bombs on the tube generates such a hysterical overreaction is shameful. When bombs goes off in Mumbai or Karachi (as they do often) it is shrugged off and forgotten within weeks – people just get up and on with their lives: this is the real way to treat terrorism. Meanwhile, people are still whining about 7/7 here in the UK, as if it was fucking Hiroshima or something. For fucks sake, get a grip.

  6. Douglas Clark — on 1st December, 2006 at 10:11 pm  

    No-one, least of all me, is about to defend what happened on 7/7. What I do think is counterproductive is the nature of the response. It has been an example of the most heavy handed, counterproductive policing I have ever seen.

    We, as a society, can handle terrorist threats. Specifically the mainland bombing campaign that the IRA instigated. We did not retreat then into the la-la land of killing electricians or shooting up suspects because the policeman was wearing the wrong gloves, or claiming conspiracies when there wasn’t one. Neither did we assume our Police were actually ‘The Law’. Which is a ridiculous surrender to the Dirty Harry school of jurisprudence.

    The media and political response has frankly been pathetic. The attempt to drum up hysteria matches the worst of McCarthyism. (Read Muslims for Communists, if you will). I blame 24/7 news, personally.

    I do not believe for one minute that the British public has been intimidated, or considers itself racist or bigoted. None of that would in any event destroy the rule of law, as you put it. What destroys the rule of law is giving powers to the Police that most of us would have marched against only a few short years ago. What strengthens the rule of law is due process. It is boring, it is slow, but it works. Let it be.

    Meeting brute force with misdirected brute force is not a way forward. You, my friend, are looking into the abyss, and the abyss is looking back. You are, in my opinion, in danger of becoming what you fear.

  7. Anas — on 1st December, 2006 at 11:04 pm  

    raz, that was a fucking excellent post.

  8. Bert Preast — on 2nd December, 2006 at 12:08 am  

    The heavy handed policing doesn’t worry me overmuch. We’ve seen a UK police state in Northern Ireland, and we’ve seen it being quickly dismantled as soon as the threat has passed. So stop panicking.

    Unless of course you’re not the optimistic type, in which case you may consider the heavy handedness is down to the security services concern that we have people here willing to detonate a full on nuclear bomb in a city. Talk about the blitz all you like, but the fact is the next AQ attack might cause more casualties than the UK suffered in both world wars. Who’s up for taking the risk?

  9. Anas — on 2nd December, 2006 at 12:32 am  

    Hey it’s Bert ‘some of my best friends are Paki Bashers’ Prest. Nice to have you back!

  10. ZinZin — on 2nd December, 2006 at 12:34 am  

    “Talk about the blitz all you like, but the fact is the next AQ attack might cause more casualties than the UK suffered in both world wars.”

    Bert do you really believe that middle class tossers such as the 7/7 suicide murderers could get access to a nuclear bomb nevermind detonate one? If you mean a dirty bomb then you are worrying about a threat that has been overstated.

    Raz we have dealt with IRA terrorism for many years yet we understood their position and could deal with them as they were rational. Middle class jihadi’s with an ill-defined grudge and willing to kill themselves and others is an alien concept to the British public which explains the paranoia.

  11. ZinZin — on 2nd December, 2006 at 12:36 am  

    Anas if you are going to use smear tactics go to Jihad and the City.

  12. Bert Preast — on 2nd December, 2006 at 12:49 am  

    Anas – I’ve been holidaying in Toledo. I’ve bought an outrageous Roman sword in Toledo steel, and nicked a tooth and bone fragment from what may be a reconquistador, hapless peasant, or Ahmed the Jihadi as I’ve affectionately named him. He’s bought me some surprisingly good luck this week so nothing you can say will wind me up. Take that.

    Zinzin – I’m not talking about a dirty bomb which I know is rather overstated. A pukkah nuke isn’t however out of the question and where there’s a will there’s a way. It’d be the biggest disaster in UK history, and the security services have to take it seriously.

  13. Sunny — on 2nd December, 2006 at 4:55 am  

    ert do you really believe that middle class tossers such as the 7/7 suicide murderers could get access to a nuclear bomb nevermind detonate one?

    I was going to say something on this. In the last few weeks we’ve had one Russian defector dead through the usage of some highly radioactive material, which may have also affected thousands of other people.

    If you want to worry about dirty bombs, I think the Russians are much more of a problem than some frustrated wannabe terrorist kids.

  14. Bert Preast — on 2nd December, 2006 at 11:22 am  

    But are we worrying about the mafia, the government, the football chairman, all the above, or they’re all the same anyway?

  15. Sid — on 2nd December, 2006 at 2:32 pm  

    Good call raz.

  16. Electro — on 2nd December, 2006 at 3:22 pm  

    If you want to worry about dirty bombs, I think the Russians are much more of a problem than some frustrated wannabe terrorist kids.

    Uh…Sunny… you can buy polonium on the open market. It is widely available, but in order for it to harm an individual it has to be injested.

    In other words the substance isn’t “highly” radioactive at all.

    Get you facts straight! You’re a journalist for heaven’s sakes.

    So you reduce the 60-odd deaths of last summer to just a prank of a few terorist “wannades”?

    The evil of those wannabes was limited only by their incapacity to acquire more explsive materials.

    And you’re inhabiting la-la land if you think a dirty “wannabe” bomb (or worse) isn’t a major possibility.

    Why are you constantly trying to lull people into a flase sense of security while at the same time deflecting from the very real dangers we’re all facing?

    Polonium’s a mere detail, and yet you’re not even right about that.

  17. Anas — on 2nd December, 2006 at 4:52 pm  

    Electro seems to know a bit too much about Polonium and radioactive materials. Perhaps you should be alerting the authorities, Sunny. Better safe than sorry, eh?

  18. Electro — on 2nd December, 2006 at 5:32 pm  

    Anas, several experts in both medicine and physics gave the lowdown on Polonium during an interview broadcast on a science network overhere ( N. America).

    It has to be injested in order to be harmful.

    And, no, “Polonium” is NOT the ancient Roman name for Warsaw

  19. Anas — on 2nd December, 2006 at 5:58 pm  

    I was merely showing how easy it is to fall into a paranoid mindset if one is not careful; and emphasising how important it is that we keep tabs on our police and security services to make sure they’re not overstepping their bounds and misusing their powers.

  20. Douglas Clark — on 2nd December, 2006 at 6:56 pm  

    Electro,

    Polonium 210 is highly radioactive. You might like to read up on it here:

    http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2006/11/polonium210_part_i.php

    and, here:

    http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2006/11/polonium210_part_ii_1.php?utm_source=sbhomepage&utm_medium=link&utm_content=sublink

    You are right in saying it has to enter the body through inhilation, ingestion or possibly through a cut. The consequences however are much worse wieght for weight than from Gamma radiation. And it does killed you through radioactivity. This is a major security risk, given the miniscule dosages that can kill (12 millionths of a gram!), and the potential for aerosol dispersal. This is a lot more serious than the so-called dirty bomb.

  21. Douglas Clark — on 2nd December, 2006 at 6:57 pm  

    Err, that would be weight for weight…

  22. Psychohobbit233 — on 4th December, 2006 at 12:23 am  

    What do you people think about this? Neutral question, by the way.

    Bikini Mosque Siege Protest – Stranger than Fiction
    Date: 02 December 2006 21:30

    Mosque to get police guard for bikini rally
    Taghred Chandab and Matthew Benns
    December 3, 2006

    POLICE have been asked to protect Australia’s largest mosque next weekend
    because of concerns that a bikini march staged to coincide with the
    anniversary of the Cronulla riots may get out of control.

    The caretaker of Lakemba Mosque, the Lebanese Muslim Association, says it is
    taking no risks, requesting at least 32 police officers to protect the place
    of worship on Saturday and Sunday.

    Association president Tom Zreik said he met police on several occasions to
    ensure there would be adequate numbers of officers present to defuse
    problems and arrest troublemakers.

    “We are treating this as something that is funny and hilarious but also
    taking precautions,” Mr Zreika said of the bikini march. “Some people may
    see this as provocation and the last thing that we want is to see anyone
    being attacked.”

    The organiser, Melbourne grandmother Christine Hawkins, has asked women
    nationally to dress in bikinis and colourful beachwear and rally outside
    large mosques to show their disgust at comments by leading Muslim cleric,
    Sheik Taj el-Din al Hilaly, who likened women to “uncovered meat”.

    A white supremacist website has promoted the march. Members of Sydney’s
    Muslim community began raising their concerns last week, with hundreds
    joining an internet discussion to find a “peaceful avenue” to protect their
    mosque.

    Many Muslim women suggested joining the march in their hijabs and burqas to
    voice their outrage at comments made by Senator Bronwyn Bishop and Prime
    Minister John Howard about the way they dress. “We’re really asking people
    not to bother coming to the mosque,” Mr Zreika said.

    “All this is doing is degrading women and giving men a great excuse to have
    a perv. There are better ways women can express their concerns.”

    In Cronulla yesterday members of the Lakembaroos sports club attended a
    barbecue at North Cronulla Surf Club to mark the progress of more than 20
    Muslim lifesavers, who are training for their bronze medallions.

    “If we didn’t have the events of Cronulla last December in the back of our
    minds, we wouldn’t even be conscious that the people here were of Lebanese
    background,” Community Relations Commission chairman Stepan Kerkyasharian
    said.

    “They look Australian, they are taking part in an Australian activity and
    you have to ask ‘what’s the problem?”‘

    The training is an initiative of Surf Life Saving Australia.

    Source: The Sun-Herald

  23. bikhair aka taqiyyah — on 4th December, 2006 at 12:38 pm  

    raz,

    the reasons why the consequences of terrorist acts are seen as more grave in Western soceities than others socieities is because you people are worthless and they are not. They have far more too lose in terms of value of life than you guys from the subcontinent.

  24. Chairwoman — on 4th December, 2006 at 1:44 pm  

    bikhair -get that damn chip off your shoulder before it pushes you into the ground.

    Here in the UK we suffered acts of terrorism by the IRA for decades. And we shrugged it off. Just like they do on the subcontinent.

    I’m sorry to tell you that the reason people can’t hack it is because the majority of my generation brought their children up to be soft.

    Sorry, it’s our fault.

    Toughen up.

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