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    Subliminal messaging


    by Sunny
    7th July, 2010 at 4:42 pm    

    I’m tickled at how, on this Harry’s Place blog-post, they publish something innocuous about Muslims and nail-varnish (who said they’re obsessed by Muslims??) and then end up with a big picture of some evil-looking Hizbollah fighters.

    I mean I’m sure it’s entirely coincidental that HP bloggers have no problems sticking in videos or pictures of angry, nasty looking Muslims on every other post even if it’s totally unrelated to the topic. Oh wait, it is related - they are all Muslims after all!


                  Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: Other racists






    62 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. sunny hundal

      Blog post:: Subliminal messaging http://bit.ly/d5yf2M


    2. Nadia

      Why everyone should do media studies/critiques. RT @sunny_hundal Blog post: Subliminal messaging http://bit.ly/d5yf2M


    3. J A

      RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: Subliminal messaging http://bit.ly/d5yf2M




    1. Abdullah — on 7th July, 2010 at 5:12 pm  

      Harry’s blog is just a vile racist site - there philosophy is the same as the BNP and EDL ” They hide under the pretext that they are against radical Islam and that islamaphobia does not exist and that they are not racist because being Muslim is not a race”

      Who are you trying to Kid Harrys Blog, I mean you only convince the people that believe your trash. Wouldn’t your blog be better served to developing community cohesion, Comparative religion “if religion must be discussed”, and all sorts of other positive actions.

      But let’s face it without the vile hatred that is espoused against the 1billion plus Muslims Harry Blog would not exist. Thankfully a lot of people are aware and are growing aware that this blog is utter trash.

    2. Leon — on 7th July, 2010 at 5:22 pm  

      Another post on PP about HP in the negative? This will go well…!

    3. Sunny — on 7th July, 2010 at 5:47 pm  

      Leon - if you don’t want to read it, don’t bother reading it!

    4. Leon — on 7th July, 2010 at 5:58 pm  

      I didn’t! I read up until HP’s name was mentioned and stopped as I thought ‘Here we go again another pointless thread about HP…’ :P

    5. Mark T — on 7th July, 2010 at 8:03 pm  

      I’m tickled at how, on this Harry’s Place blog-post, they publish something innocuous about Muslims and nail-varnish (who said they’re obsessed by Muslims??) and then end up with a big picture of some evil-looking Hizbollah fighters.

      The post is about a fatwa on nail-varnish, issued by Muhammed Hussein Fadlallah - a fatwa wilfully misinterpreted by Ian Williams, in an attempt to portray Fadlallah as a liberalising force in Lebanese society.

      Fadlallah is in fact anything but a liberal, as any cursory internet search for his views will reveal. He also happened to be the spiritual mentor of Hizbollah.

      Hence the picture of Hizbollah fighters at the end.

      It’s not that hard, Sunny.

    6. Sunny — on 7th July, 2010 at 8:08 pm  

      Yes of course Mark - you’re completely right. There’s no message there at all.

      Every time any discussion of Muslims takes place (which is pretty much daily), let’s have pics of people DYING after 7/7. After all, they’re connected via religion.

      Leon - I like to call bullshit when I can sometimes. It’s a blog. Not every post has to be held up to technical standards

    7. Mark T — on 7th July, 2010 at 8:16 pm  

      Yes of course Mark – you’re completely right. There’s no message there at all.

      WTF Sunny. The post is not about ‘Muslims’ or ‘Muslims using nail varnish’.

      It is about Fadlallah - a deeply unpleasant man - and a misinterpretation of his views.

      Get a grip.

    8. Sunny — on 7th July, 2010 at 8:17 pm  

      Get a grip on what? I’m holding on to my seat quite tightly with all of Spain’s missed chances at the goal. What footwork eh?

      Otherwise, too bad you don’t get the point. But then, I’m not surprised either.

    9. Mark T — on 7th July, 2010 at 8:19 pm  

      Oh, I know what point you’re trying to make.

      Sadly the evidence isn’t there.

    10. Mark T — on 7th July, 2010 at 8:23 pm  

      Sorry, that should be ‘point’.

    11. Leon — on 7th July, 2010 at 9:01 pm  

      Lol Sunny, give over you’ve been obsessed with
      HP for over a year and a half now!:D

    12. damon — on 7th July, 2010 at 10:11 pm  

      I don’t read Harry’s place all that much as I don’t like the overall stance, but this article did seem to be particularly about Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah and the way he was depicted in the CiF article.
      I too was distracted by the football while reading it, but the picture of Hezbollah does seem to be justified since he was said to be their spiritual head.
      Laughing about rules on nail varnish is something else.
      If you are secular it could be seen as quite funny. That middle class women who might give their nails such a priority in their lives, were still expected to strip their paistakingly done nails of varnish every time they prayed - and how it was such a relief when the fatwa came through. So a little bit funny if you want to find it so, but certainly undeserving of the bile that was evident in the first and third readers comments.

    13. MattWales — on 7th July, 2010 at 10:21 pm  

      What a silly witless article.
      All that needs saying really :)

    14. mt98 — on 7th July, 2010 at 10:41 pm  

      Well, if you ignore the pictures, Harry does have a point in this post.
      (firefox, adblock, flashblock - computers can do that)

    15. Mark T — on 7th July, 2010 at 10:44 pm  

      In Sunny’s world, if - in pointing out that the Guardian has misintrepeted the motivations of a deceased Hizbollah cleric - you use a picture of Hizbollah members to illustrate your article, you are apparently ‘subliminally’ suggesting that all Muslims are just like Hizbollah.

      Right.

    16. Kismet Hardy — on 7th July, 2010 at 10:57 pm  

      I’m kinda with leon. I only know about harry’s place cos you seem to have a grudge with them. Kinda boring. Especially with this new look. But then I hate change. I miss everyone wearing socks in bed

    17. Barry — on 7th July, 2010 at 11:57 pm  

      I don’t see what’s wrong with pointing out disagreements with one of the most prominent blogs on the internet. Given that HP allows a platform for some really objectionable and bigoted views; has a comments box dominated by some horrible pieces of work; and is only too happy to vociferously attack individuals, I’d think it’d be far worse if people didn’t mention them.

    18. Brownie — on 8th July, 2010 at 12:20 am  

      Sunny:Not every post has to be held up to technical standards

      Which must be the source of some considerable relief for you.

    19. DF — on 8th July, 2010 at 1:46 am  

      Sunny said:

      “Every time any discussion of Muslims takes place (which is pretty much daily), let’s have pics of people DYING after 7/7. After all, they’re connected via religion.”

      Sunny, you should be ashamed of yourself exploiting the brutal murder of 52 innocent people to score a cheap point in your pathetic cyber war against Harry’s Place.

      I don’t believe Harry’s Place is obsessed with ‘Muslims’, even though you try your best to prove they are, however it is clear from your many posts that you have an irrational obsession with Harry’s Place.

      Why do you devote so much of your time and efforts in an attempt to discredit Harry’s Place when there are hundreds of genuinely Islamophobic sites that do promote anti-Muslim bigotry.

    20. Sunny — on 8th July, 2010 at 1:50 am  

      Which must be the source of some considerable relief for you.

      True. I was thinking of decorating it with posts of dead babies too.. you know, just to add a bit of colour.

      Why do you devote so much of your time and efforts in an attempt to discredit Harry’s Place when there are hundreds of genuinely Islamophobic sites that do promote anti-Muslim bigotry.

      Awww… poor baby. There there… does it hurt. Go and lie down.

    21. vildechaye — on 8th July, 2010 at 3:35 am  

      RE: Awww… poor baby. There there… does it hurt. Go and lie down.

      What a great answer! what a putdown! i bet DF will be so humiliated he’ll never show his face at this site again!

      NOT

    22. Sunny — on 8th July, 2010 at 4:02 am  

      What a great answer! what a putdown!

      *shrug*

    23. HamidReza — on 8th July, 2010 at 9:20 am  

      Sunny, HP is not obsessed with Muslims as much as it is obsessed with lefties that are uncritically and cluelessly obsessed with Islam (as in love affair with reactionary religious ideology).

      And about the picture of the goose stepping sig-heil Hezbollah vigilante goons - HPers see fascists in those pictures while Sunny and other Identity-Socialists see lovable Muslim activists. Just read your own post Sunny.

      Now guess who is so obsessed with Muslims?

      HamidReza

      proud ex-Muslim. Eat your heart out Sunny.
      proud Muslim apostate.

    24. Leon — on 8th July, 2010 at 10:23 am  

      Dear all,

      I wish to withdraw all my posts above about this new course of action. I was wrong to comment on the wisdom of starting another blog war with Harry’s Place. I was wrong to publicly undermine our leader Sunny Hundal. I was wrong and I hang my head in shame.

      I offer my sincere apologies for any upset or damage I may have done to our leaders reputation. And hope he can find it within his wise and noble heart to forgive me.

      I will now back enthusiastically the coming war with Harry’s Place, for it is a just war, a right war and war we can win. We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them on the streets of London, we shall never surrender!

      I ask all comrades of Pickled Politics to pull together in this troubling time as we reluctantly take on the enemy of the people. Comrades, know this, we did not invite attack; we are not the aggressors, the scourge that is Harry’s Place have brought this upon themselves. The deserve no mercy, and we should “wipe them out. All of them.”

      Sincerely

      Vice Chairman of the Pickled Politics Party

      “We’re at war with Oceania, we’ve always been at war with Oceania, Eurasia is our friend…”

    25. Kisan — on 8th July, 2010 at 1:38 pm  

      Seems a little overwrought criticism as per usual.

      To illustrate an article of Hezbollah with a photo like that is the big ‘gotcha’ for Sunny? What would have been more appropriate a big cuddly teddy bear with a Hezbollah t-shirt on?

      I mean just questioning the warm cuddly fuzzy wuzzy repackaging of Hezbollah is really sick now isn’t it.

      Unfortunately someone has to burst the bubbles of fash Guardianistas once in a while. As the update fills in about the old man he had some views rather in sync with the seig heiling Hezbollahites in the photo in question including neo-Nazi style revisionism and genocidal style rhetoric:

      UPDATE: To truly understand the wishful thinking in Williams’ article, compare it with the obituary for Fadlallah on Hizbollah’s own al-Manar TV website (emphasis added):

      “What martyrdom is greater than making yourself a human bomb detonating it among the enemy? What spiritualism is greater than this spiritualism in which a person loses all feeling of his body and life for the sake of his cause and mission?”

      “Israel poses a great danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our modern nation, especially since it embraces a settlement-oriented and expansionist idea that it has already begun to apply in occupied Palestine and it is extending and expanding to build Greater Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile,” Sayyed Fadlullah said in one of his lectures.

      “All of Palestine is a war zone and every Jew who unlawfully occupies a house or land belonging to a Palestinian is a legitimate target. There are no innocent Jews in Palestine. They kill many of our women, children, and elderly people. They destroy our homes. They confiscate our water and freedom.”

      In an interview with Al-Manar TV on March 21, 2008, Sayyed Fadlullah stated:

      “Zionism has inflated the number of victims in this holocaust beyond imagination.”

    26. chairwoman — on 8th July, 2010 at 2:08 pm  

      Lol Sunny, give over you’ve been obsessed with
      HP for over a year and a half now!:D”

      And yet there it is, on PP’s Blogroll, Harry’s Place. Comrades.

      Comrades in what?

    27. BenSix — on 8th July, 2010 at 7:36 pm  

      How about Sunny vows to stop posting on HP, and HP promise to desist their woeful snipes at Richard Seymour?

      /peacetreaty

    28. HamidReza — on 8th July, 2010 at 8:17 pm  

      Leon - LOL

      BTW Sunny dares not post on HP. He gets driven out each time by the responders.

      But then he must be posting with a pseudonym.

      Proud Muslim Apostate
      ======
      May Paedo Mohammad (PBUH), the psychotic murderer and torturer, get raped in hell

    29. Sunny — on 8th July, 2010 at 9:05 pm  

      BTW Sunny dares not post on HP. He gets driven out each time by the responders.

      When you roll around with a pig in mud - you only end up making the pig happy and getting yourself dirty.

    30. Sunny — on 8th July, 2010 at 9:06 pm  

      I have an idea… it’s quite revolutionary. I’ve floated this idea loads of times before but for some reason people don’t like it.

      The idea is that I write what I want on this blog and people who don’t like it can read something else.

      Perhaps I’m being too revolutionary with my ideas.

    31. douglas clark — on 8th July, 2010 at 9:25 pm  

      HamidReza @ 23,

      What do you think the response would be if I posted on HP? I forget whether it was Brownie or David T that invited me to do a ‘guest’ post on their blog.

      I would seriously doubt that telling the commentariat trail on HP that they are all completely insane is likely to gain me the kudos for a second guest post.

      It was an offer I refused.

      Seems to me there is a difference, but you are too committed to HP, and before you say it, I am to committed to PP…..

      This site is generally quite friendly to atheists, is that what you are now?

      proud ex-Muslim. Eat your heart out Sunny.
      proud Muslim apostate.

      There is something wrong with that, but what the heck. Yup, you are not a ‘Muslim apostate’, you are just an apostate. Welcome to the club.

    32. Abdullah — on 8th July, 2010 at 9:58 pm  

      I have read HP for may years now and belive me when i go to read news about muslims on a certain link site HP site has been very very active in potraying muslims in a very negative light.

      I will point to my post the first in tis thread. please read if you havent done so already. HP site is islamaphobic it propogates hatred towards islam and muslims.

      Also i would like to point out that i have read an article or two on HP about PP and sunny in the past to lol.

    33. douglas clark — on 8th July, 2010 at 10:49 pm  

      Abdullah @ 32,

      You are, of course, correct. That is what we expect of the muscularily dystrophic liberals from some pub in Euston. Probably a pretty shady place, really. May they drown their joint and collective sorrows there, ’cause they haven’t a leg to stand on….

      ______________________________

      Suggestion.

      You should stop reading their shit. If they come here you should tell them exactly what you think of them.

      It works for me!

    34. persephone — on 8th July, 2010 at 11:08 pm  

      I don’t visit harrys place except sometimes if PP links to it and every time I do I come away as if I have visited a festering hothouse. And yes a lot of that festering seems to be directed at muslims/islam.

    35. douglas clark — on 8th July, 2010 at 11:28 pm  

      persephone @ 34,

      I know we don’t see eye to eye on everything, but, ré Harry’s Place, one usually needs a hot shower, afterwards!

    36. joe90 — on 8th July, 2010 at 11:40 pm  

      The less said about that nasty racist blog the better. the people who defend it are sad mad idiots in my personal view.

    37. HamidReza — on 9th July, 2010 at 12:04 am  

      Abdulla: I have read HP for may years now and belive me when i go to read news about muslims on a certain link site HP site has been very very active in potraying muslims in a very negative light.

      Well, if you take a paedophile, mass murderer and torturer as the example of a “perfect human being to be emulated until eternity” (as per the Qor’an) - of course you will be portrayed in a negative light. duh….

      I mean would any atheist (or a decent religious person for that matter) take you for a sound mind?

      Please show respect for our intelligence.

      As is said: A religious person MUST believe he/she is RIGHT. Otherwise the person would not be religious.

      HamidReza - An atheist who is proud to have dumped Islam

      =======
      May Paedo Mohammad (PBUH), the psychotic murderer and torturer, get raped in hell

    38. HamidReza — on 9th July, 2010 at 12:10 am  

      Joe90: The less said about that nasty racist blog the better. the people who defend it are sad mad idiots in my personal view.

      What a sad bigotted view of a bunch of ideology-free open minded folks.

      Islam is not a race - get a brain.

    39. earwicga — on 9th July, 2010 at 12:17 am  

      ‘I miss everyone wearing socks in bed’

      Kismet Hardy - you must move to Wales forthwith!

    40. douglas clark — on 9th July, 2010 at 12:28 am  

      HamidReza @ 37,

      You, perhaps, go too far.

      I have little or no time for the godly. But it is not really wise to just insult them. Jesus, allegedly, consorted with a prostitute. What are the holy to make of that? They don’t like it and pretend it is otherwise.

      Just to point out that whilst it is easy to point the finger at holy texts, it is not always useful. Your arguement would be stronger if you said why you became an atheist, rather than being vituperative about those you left behind.

      I believe there is some truth in holy books. I recall discussing Leonard Cohen on here. He talks about a lot of stuff that affects men now, just as it did in biblical times. We are no different from our ancestors, absent a little more learning. Still as horny though :-)

      If you like, and it is not against your new atheism, you might like to listen to this:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTiXoMCppw

      But it is not compulsory.

      There is a fundamental point about men in it, I think. There is a verse, here it is:

      “our faith was strong but you needed proof

      You saw her bathing on the roof

      Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew you

      She tied you to a kitchen chair

      She broke your throne, and she cut your hair

      And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah”

      I think us men are like that, and you don’t get it in pornography or some such. Atheism is OK, really it is, but it isn’t everything.

      Just saying.

    41. HamidReza — on 9th July, 2010 at 12:28 am  

      Persephone: I don’t visit harrys place except sometimes if PP links to it and every time I do I come away as if I have visited a festering hothouse. And yes a lot of that festering seems to be directed at muslims/islam.

      Nothing wrong with slagging Islam and Paedo Mohammad (PBUH).

      Your equating that with slagging Muslims as a group simply shows your intellectual handicap.

    42. douglas clark — on 9th July, 2010 at 12:57 am  

      HamiddReza @ 38,

      What a sad bigotted view of a bunch of ideology-free open minded folks.

      Really?

      This is an extract from the first post on Harry’s Place:

      The fact that one has to highlight religious permission to wear nail varnish in certain circumstances, as if this was some telling measure of enlightenment, just emphasizes how backward is Islam (and this cleric) and how far it has to travel before it reaches the 21st century.

      Of course it is ridiculous that clerics should have a say in the matter. It is not actually useful to tell folk they are backward. It is just a stupid and nasty comment. Much like most of the assumed superiority that even the editorials sometimes project. Unless and until they find some ageing pensioner to stick the boot into. Or Muslim only swimming sessions, or whatever other breaking news these fools see as relevant and adequate to stir up their base.

      Which is just about typical of the whole site. Although especially it’s comments threads….which are a disgrace to the human race.

    43. douglas clark — on 9th July, 2010 at 1:16 am  

      HamidReza,

      You said to persephone:

      Nothing wrong with slagging Islam and Paedo Mohammad (PBUH).

      As far as I know PBUH stands for ‘Peace be Upon Him’. It seems a tad odd that you use that after the word paedo.

      And, in any event, it was pretty well the case an adult could marry a girl in order to protect her from unwanted sexual advances. What evidence do you have that twelve year olds were not typically taken to bed in Saudi Arabia way back then? It seems to have been pretty prevelant in Medieval Europe. It was apparently 12 in England up until around 1875 when it was raised to 13. In most old societies it was accepted that menarche was the criteria.

      You are talking pish.

    44. Sunny — on 9th July, 2010 at 2:36 am  

      Douglas - I don’t think he’s here to talk theology mate. He’s our newest troll, telling us how we’re all sellouts because we don’t have a big sign on the top calling Mohammed a paedo.

      PS - did you meet with Rumbold in the end??

    45. HamidReza — on 9th July, 2010 at 3:28 am  

      Sunny don’t flatter yourself with labelling dissenters to PP as “trolls”.

      Douglas Clark has made some interesting replies - but as far as your reply and your bigotted friends replies go, it has been so underwhelming - and actually has been mostly troll-like labelling and insults.

    46. Rumbold — on 9th July, 2010 at 8:36 am  

      Heh Earwiga.

    47. Leon — on 9th July, 2010 at 10:38 am  

      The idea is that I write what I want on this blog and people who don’t like it can read something else.

      How about another revolutionary idea: you write what you want but can handle people having a difference of opinion over it?

      Mate seriously, I have a lot of respect for you but as a leading light on the left you’re verging on embarrassing yourself (and those who ally with you) by wasting your time on trivial stuff like this. You have bigger fish to fry. What you’re doing is like a leader of the Labour party stopping to fight some two bit Trot splinter group because they say nasty things about you.

      Keep your eye on the prize and your energy focused on what matters.

      Also, telling people they can’t comment on your actions doesn’t just belittle your great work elsewhere it makes you look like a right Stalinist.

    48. Jai — on 9th July, 2010 at 12:29 pm  

      Sunny,

      He’s our newest troll, telling us how we’re all sellouts because we don’t have a big sign on the top calling Mohammed a paedo.

      As you and I both know, none of the Sikh Gurus had a “big sign on the top” making those kind of remarks about Mohammad either. They didn’t exactly hold back when voicing their low opinion of many members of the ultraorthodox clergy in the world’s major organised religions at the time, but they were neutral about Mohammad himself, and they were actually extremely positive about many influential Sufis. (And with a couple of historical exceptions, the latter have been the primary influence on the dominant version of Islam in South Asia).

      If all that makes Guru Gobind Singh and his predecessors “sellouts” from the perspective of those with a major axe to grind against Muslims en masse, especially if they wish to caricature Islam as a monolithic, homogenous religion, then the rest of us are in very exalted company.

      Due to the obvious pointlessness of the exercise I don’t intend to get involved in any direct discussions with our alleged apostate visitor from HP, but here are a few observations as an aside:

      Well, if you take a paedophile, mass murderer and torturer as the example of a “perfect human being to be emulated until eternity” (as per the Qor’an)

      It’s interesting to note that someone claiming to be an apostate — and therefore a non-Muslim — apparently still believes in the historical authenticity of the contents of both the Quran (or “Qor’an”, to use the Persian spelling) and the Hadiths along with the credibility & authority of their historical compilers, including the descriptions of Mohammad’s alleged actions mentioned in the Hadiths by various second- and third-hand sources and despite the fact that Mohammad himself didn’t actually directly write any of these literary texts.

      Furthermore, these particular allegations are based on the contents of various possibly apocryphal Hadiths (they’re not actually in the Quran), and Shia Muslims – who predominantly reside in Iran, Pakistan and India respectively — don’t follow exactly the same Hadiths as Sunnis do, although there’s obviously some overlap. It also significantly downplays the considerable influence of Ali along with major figures in various Sufi orders during the past thousand years as the actual primary role models for many Muslims, especially in the Indian subcontinent where the latter is concerned.

      May Paedo Mohammad (PBUH), the psychotic murderer and torturer, get raped in hell

      Another curious statement. “Hell”, in the traditional eternal-torture-and-damnation sense, is a specifically Christian and Islamic concept, at least in terms of the ultraconservative versions of those religions. It’s certainly interesting to see that a self-professed apostate, someone who claims to have entirely rejected the theological concepts in Islam, paradoxically still believes in “Hell” as an actual physical location in the afterlife.

    49. joe90 — on 9th July, 2010 at 8:11 pm  

      post 38 defending hatred as open thinking wow that’s a new one thanks for the joke.

    50. persephone — on 9th July, 2010 at 11:50 pm  

      @ 41 Go & fester elsewhere

    51. HamidReza — on 10th July, 2010 at 8:18 am  

      Jai: It’s interesting to note that someone claiming to be an apostate — and therefore a non-Muslim — apparently still believes in the historical authenticity of the contents of both the Quran (or “Qor’an”, to use the Persian spelling) and the Hadiths..

      Hey idiot - read again - where does it say that I “still believe” in this shit? - If you had ever lived in an Islamic country you would know that mainstream muslims take the Qor’an to be the literal word and will of Allah. Obviously I don’t subscribe to such gibberish - but most observing muslins and certainly Islamists will tell you that Paedo mass murderer Mohammad (PBUH) must be emulated as example of the perfect human being. Your ignorance of matters Islamic is apparent. And the Qor’an in itself has praise for the Rasool (PBUH) as one that must be obeyed, followed, and emulated. Your ignorance about Islam and the Rasool and how it is felt and observed, in a muslim country, is simply pathetic.

      BTW, the P in PBUH stands for piss - in case you are so clueless.

      “get raped in hell” is a figure of speech. Obviously only an idiot would believe in a hell. And you capitalizing that word shows you utter dearth of intelligence in understanding clear language that you obviously so disagree with for ideological reasons.

      If you have a soft spot for the Paedophile and by extension Islam and its brand of primitive fascism - may I suggest that you get out of this country, commit yourself to Gaza or Qom, and let another atheist or apostate like myself from the ME to take your place.

    52. damon — on 10th July, 2010 at 12:58 pm  

      I never really got the meaning of the OP.
      But it has been interesting reading more about Grand Ayatollah Sayyed Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah - like this from Robert Fisk today.
      http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-cnn-was-wrong-about-ayatollah-fadlallah-2023179.html
      Things aren’t always so black and white is what I come away with.

    53. Jai — on 10th July, 2010 at 2:30 pm  

      Hey idiot – read again – where does it say that I “still believe” in this shit?…. Obviously I don’t subscribe to such gibberish – but most observing muslins and certainly Islamists will tell you that Paedo mass murderer Mohammad (PBUH) must be emulated as example of the perfect human being.

      If you don’t believe in the historical accuracy of either the Quran or the Hadiths, it raises the question of how you can logically claim that Mohammad was either a paedophile or a mass murderer, since you’re using Islamic texts to justify your own assertions about him.

      And the Qor’an in itself has praise for the Rasool (PBUH) as one that must be obeyed, followed, and emulated.

      Again, Mohammad didn’t write the Quran himself, so it’s illogical for these injunctions to be automatically assumed to be authentic by either non-Muslims or indeed apostates.

      Your ignorance of matters Islamic is apparent.

      Not really. There are literally more than twice as many Muslims in India as there are in the whole of Iran, and they’ve been there in large numbers for more than a thousand years.

      “get raped in hell” is a figure of speech.

      And what does this ‘figure of speech’ mean, exactly ? Mohammad died during the 7th century, so what fate do you actually desire for someone who no longer exists in this world and, based on the logic of your own claims that ‘a hell’ in the afterlife is non-existent, he presumably no longer exists anywhere else either ?

      In fact, it’s more than a little irrational to curse someone you believe doesn’t even exist anymore, no ? If Mohammad no longer exists anywhere, then exactly whom are you directing your ‘figure of speech’ at ?

      Obviously only an idiot would believe in a hell.

      Orthodox Christianity includes the concept of a hell. Are you calling practising Christians “idiots” ?

      If you have a soft spot for the Paedophile and by extension Islam and its brand of primitive fascism – may I suggest that you get out of this country, commit yourself to Gaza or Qom, and let another atheist or apostate like myself from the ME to take your place.

      My stance on Islam is identical to that of the Sikh Gurus, including Guru Gobind Singh. And the interpretation of Islam in the Middle East is immaterial to me — my ancestral roots lie in the Indian subcontinent, and it’s a part of the world which has more Muslims than anywhere else on the planet. Your own ignorance of matters Islamic in that region is apparent.

      In fact, your attitude is the equivalent of, for example, using the “Christian” justification of large numbers of the Confederacy during the American Civil War (when they explicitly claimed a religious basis for their “God-given right” to own slaves, and were willing to kill people to defend that “right”, resulting in the deaths of 600,000 fellow Americans in the ensuring conflict) to make denigrating remarks about “matters Christian” everywhere else in the world. Such a stance would be neither reasonable nor rational.

    54. Sunny — on 10th July, 2010 at 3:19 pm  

      Jai - don’t bother responding, he’s going to be banned after this.

    55. douglas clark — on 10th July, 2010 at 10:24 pm  

      Sunny @ 44,

      Yes, leaving the ridiculous content of this thread behind, I did meet up with Rumbold and his somewhat amazing g/f.

      Lucky guy.

      I had a lot of fun, and I think they did too.

      Rumbold said that he thought you’d really like me, so no pressure there then, eh! Though I think it did take them a wee while to penetrate the accent!

      Fascinating to find that the people behind this blog are actually just as nice as I always thought they would be.

    56. Abdullah — on 11th July, 2010 at 2:23 am  

      Hamid Reza thanks for the laugh. I have made an observation during my time in reading many rightwing/leftwing blogs etc. Blogs like HP and individuals like Hamid should really take a set back and look in the mirror.

      They attack Islam and Muslims under various pretexts and guises, which is fine. However they spout bile and vitriol, I am convinced most rational people can see this. However I do observe that this hatred of Islam and Muslims is pushing them to intellectual extremism.

      I am not saying HP and the likes of Hamid will resort to acts of extremism. However there are many many Neanderthals they will inspire. Isn’t that kind of mirroring Islamic extremism or any other kinds of extremism? It all starts with an ideological attack and then graduates into something more.

    57. Sunny — on 11th July, 2010 at 3:56 am  

      Good stuff douggie! glad you all met up. Be careful about Rumbold - he’s all very nice and polite but at heart he’s still an evil libertarian ;-)

    58. douglas clark — on 11th July, 2010 at 9:10 am  

      Abdullah @ 56,

      Yes. They are the intellectual (hah!) cover for much foolishness.

    59. douglas clark — on 11th July, 2010 at 9:25 am  

      Sunny @ 57,

      Och, the mans heart is in the right place. If he could just disengage his head :-)

      Anyway, when I was his age I was an out and out anarchist. So there is less of a difference than you think!

      Come to think of it ‘plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose’!

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