Articles on New Gen Network


by Sunny
23rd November, 2006 at 3:15 pm    

- Dave Hill: Growth at the grassroots
- Madeleine Bunting: Fiddling while race burns
- Soumaya Ghannoushi: Wishful thinking
- Anil Bhanot: Faith can be a force for good
- Shamit Saggar: A makeover is not enough
- Catherine Fieschi: Space Exploration
- Sunny Hundal: The changing face of racism
- Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: Playing the oppression game
- Rehna Azim: All Muslimmed out
- Gary Younge: So much for so little
- Munira Mirza: Diversity is divisive
- Inayat Bunglawala: It’s not personal, Sunny. It’s strictly business
- Hari Kunzru: Casualties of culture
- Frank Fisher: Drawing distinctions in good faith
- Simon Barrow: Difference based on friendship
- Salma Yaqoob: Strength in numbers
- Sunder Katwala: I’m an optimist about multi-ethnic Britain
- Sunny Hundal: This system of self-appointed leaders can hurt those it should be protecting
- [The manifesto] Race and faith: a new agenda

* (now with the latest on top)


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  1. sabinaahmed — on 23rd November, 2006 at 8:10 pm  

    I suppose it is good to have all this reponse, but am a bit confused!

  2. Utbah — on 23rd November, 2006 at 9:27 pm  

    I’m getting bored of this topic now. What’s the next big issue going around?

    Olmert: Iraw war good for Israel
    Iraq: 138 dead
    Britain: Members of the Jewish Community going to Israel to protect Israel from little children in their cots.
    Reids father in law gets busted for drugs.

  3. Jagdeep — on 23rd November, 2006 at 11:06 pm  

    hehehe! Utbag has a whole section devoted to ‘Sunny Hundal’ on his blog:

    ===

    Categories
    -Anti-Racism
    -Asghar Bukhari & David Irving
    -Community Alerts
    -Community Issue’s
    -Current Events
    -Media
    -Middle East
    -MPACUK
    -Organisations
    -Student Jihad
    -Sunny Hundal

    I’m cracking up!

    =========

    By the way, I think it’s a zionist conspiracy that Monty Panesar was not picked in the Ashes first test.

  4. leon — on 23rd November, 2006 at 11:17 pm  

    He has a whole section just for Sunny?! Dear me…

  5. Anas — on 24th November, 2006 at 12:56 am  

    Come on, Sunny deserves it.

  6. Sunny — on 24th November, 2006 at 1:33 am  

    Sabina – what about?

    Utbah – it certainly won’t be anything you recommend.

  7. Leon — on 24th November, 2006 at 11:40 am  

    Perhaps the most interesting response thus far: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/shamit_saggar/2006/11/post_688.html

  8. Douglas Clark — on 24th November, 2006 at 12:24 pm  

    Sunny,

    You might be interested in this piece by John Ware.

    http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7980

    You might have particular sympathy for this:

    “When the MCB is this angry, it comes out fighting, and its style is to make highly personalised attacks about the integrity of its detractors. Often they are accused of harbouring secret agendas, usually Zionist, as I and others have learned. While preaching moderation, the MCB is also good at keeping young Muslims angry.”

  9. soru — on 24th November, 2006 at 12:26 pm  

    That article is good.

  10. Jagdeep — on 24th November, 2006 at 12:31 pm  

    Sunny, one thing that strucked me was that guy from the MCB who got vexed with you, and he kept sneering with contempt for the idea of ‘Asians’ — he said something like, ‘My father might have liked eating your Asian barfi, but my identity is a Muslim now so stop trying to destroy and kill my identity!’ and similar such hysteria.

    And it occured to me why these types of people are so joyless and grim — the simple natural assertion of cultural kinship between a Pakistani Muslim with a Hindu or Sikh, manifested in the friendships and common historical experience and appreciation of culture through all its large and small manifestations (Bollywood, bhangra, summertime melas, radio stations, TV — these are superficial things but you get my drift) — these kinships and bonds that are natural and spontaneous affinities, is a life threatening identity threat to these people, and so the only thing to do is to seek to deny commonalities and kick and spit at the whole idea of Asian culture —- and ultimately divide. That is all they know — divide, foster contempt for the ‘other’, selfish hysteria, transferring their struggles with their fathers into public policy, then pissing in their pants as if they are an ant about to get stepped on, simply because someone expresses an Asian identity. They are by turns, hilarious, hysterical, pompous and pathetic.

  11. Jai — on 24th November, 2006 at 4:23 pm  

    =>”if they are an ant about to get stepped on, simply because someone expresses an Asian identity.”

    This is exactly what has been occurring to me too. Why are they so keen to reject being Asian ? Are they embarassed or ashamed of it for some reason ?

    Why the desire to become (in many cases) to all intents and purposes Middle-Eastern instead ? Do they think it’s somehow “cooler”, more “macho”, more “glamourous”, or is there something specifically about the subcontinent and Asian culture that they want to disassociate themselves from ?

    Why the wish to run away from being Asian ?

  12. Leon — on 24th November, 2006 at 4:44 pm  

    Why the wish to run away from being Asian ?

    Very good question.

  13. Leon — on 24th November, 2006 at 5:35 pm  
  14. Dave Hill — on 24th November, 2006 at 9:20 pm  

    Soumaya Ghonnoushi’s piece is a bundle of laughs (Not – as they used to say). I signed the document but have been very slow off the mark defending and promoting it due to all sorts of other stuff going on this week. But each time I re-read it the more pleased I am to be associated with it. For those interested I did finally write a piece for CiF relating to the manifesto and it is scheduled to appear tomorrow morning. The thing now, maybe, is to spread the argument as far and wide as possible, on the ground as well as online. Enjoy your weekend, y’all.

  15. ZinZin — on 24th November, 2006 at 9:40 pm  

    Douglas

    The term that they use most frequently is Israel worshipper or accusing their critics of asking them to take an Israel test. Actually thats just Bunglawala and Sacranie’s smears

    Interestingly Utbag has asked me to define anti-semitism.
    Guess he will be resitting his Israel test.

  16. vt Das — on 25th November, 2006 at 12:25 pm  

    Of interest is Yahya Birt’s response :
    http://www.yahyabirt.com/?p=44

  17. Douglas Clark — on 25th November, 2006 at 1:24 pm  

    vt Das

    Yaha Birts criticism has to be faced head on. It is very, very good. What, I think, it fails to deal with is the unelected nature of faith representatives. And what I’d like to describe as a filtration process between the actual views of folk in general and how they are represented. It is as though your family was only allowed to speak through your most right wing Auntie. Interesting, but hardly democratic.

  18. Douglas Clark — on 25th November, 2006 at 1:32 pm  

    Zinzin,

    I suppose they are keeping that in reserve for Sunny then? What is interesting about the whole debate is how easily offended some folk are. When it suits them.

  19. ZinZin — on 25th November, 2006 at 1:44 pm  

    Douglas

    They are worried as they now face for the first time ever a serious threat to their power. I would sign up to the NGN manifesto but i am suffering from status envy from reading the list of signatories and their professions.

  20. Douglas Clark — on 25th November, 2006 at 3:29 pm  

    ZinZin,

    I signed it and I have no status whatsoever :) Go for it, it needs punters like you and me. If it is not just to become an intellectuals talking shop.

  21. Sukhjit Singh — on 25th November, 2006 at 3:44 pm  

    This is a response of Abdurahman who is a senior member of the Muslim Council of Britain in one of the threads responding to Sunny Hundal:

    practically every Hindu Temple in the UK supports and gives financial contributions to the VSS and VHP, the far right organisation responsible for the Gujarat massacres, and Sikh’s, despite the noble teachings of their religion, have adopted a custom to never cut their hair until the last Musim on earth is dead

    As long as people like this at the MCB, such ignorant and divisive figures, making such ignorant statements, are supposed to be on the vanguard of the ‘anti-racist’ movement, I can never support the individuals or groupings involved. That this is the kind of person a supposed non bigoted white woman called Madeline Bunting wishes to make common cause with, i am led further into disgust at the ignorance that afflicts the left, and watch in amazement at how deeply the Islamists have infiltrated and turned the heads of some white leftists. My initial instinct in the face of such stupid ignorance is to shout at them, when I read it coming from a supposed ‘anti racist’ I am amazed and astonished at their chutzpah. They are so deeply deeply prejudiced themselves. Sunny Hundal is 100% correct on this issue. More power to them.

  22. Sukhjit Singh — on 25th November, 2006 at 3:49 pm  

    As long as there are ignorant morons like Abdurahman who represent the Muslim Council of Britain making disgusting and ignorant statements about the Sikh religion like that, never mind the exaggerated prejudicial comments about Hindu temples, I will never do anything associated with that organisation — and no Sikh or Hindu ever should do anything organised or associated with them or their fools and saps on the ‘anti racist’ left like Madeline Bunting.

  23. ZinZin — on 25th November, 2006 at 4:31 pm  

    Sukhjit

    The Buntings of this world are a bigger problem as these supposed anti-racists give communalists respectability that they do not deserve. Her rejection of the enlightenment and smearing John Wares documentary on the MCB as “McCarthyite” is syptomatic of the lefts post-modern embrace of Islamists. Sometimes it hard to know who shouts islamophobia the loudest.

    Thankfully the post-modern left are finally facing a challenge to their hegemony and not before time.

  24. Douglas Clark — on 25th November, 2006 at 5:10 pm  

    Sukhjit,

    It was quite funny to see him getting the Spanish Civil War completely wrong too. At least, I hope he got it wrong :)

  25. eleutheria — on 26th November, 2006 at 12:05 am  

    Hey Sunny, you’re now in the sights of the increasingly demented Islamophobia Watch!

  26. Jai — on 26th November, 2006 at 1:50 pm  

    Sukhjit,

    =>Sikh’s, despite the noble teachings of their religion, have adopted a custom to never cut their hair until the last Musim on earth is dead”

    Could you please post a link to where Abdurahman makes this statement ? Thanks.

  27. Sid — on 26th November, 2006 at 2:07 pm  

    Here’s my comment
    to add to the list of esteemed commenters of the NGN agenda.

  28. Sid — on 26th November, 2006 at 2:30 pm  

    Sukhjit

    The comment is made in the thread of this Maddy Bunting article.

    Attributed to someone called abdurrahman I’m not sure whether he’s the MCM eponymous, someone should confirm. In any case he’s putting forward some valid points.

  29. Sukhjit Singh — on 26th November, 2006 at 3:17 pm  

    Dont get me wrong — I dislike the idea of ‘Sikh Community Organisations’ mouthing off about other communities or ‘Hindu Community Leaders’ doing the same — that are all as divisive and inimical to what we need. The difference is, whilst those bedroom schemers are miniscule and marginal, the MCB seems to be take seriously, even by professional white race warriors like that halfwit Madeline Bunting.

    I read somewhere else that Abdurahman said he was on the legal division of the MCB.

    This is exactly why what Sunny is doing is correct — as soon as you let these religionist comunalist monkeys into the chamber they start making fools of themselves. No way would I march on this banner with such people as Abdurahman and Bunting or any other communalist.

  30. Sukhjit Singh — on 26th November, 2006 at 3:19 pm  

    His comments about Hindus are a slander too — the equivalent of saying that every mosqe in Britain supports alqaeda and suicide bombers and contributes funds for terrorism. That is the exact equivalent of what he said — and yet this buffoon actually has the audacity to claim he is acting against bigotry and prejudice. Pathetic.

  31. Jai — on 26th November, 2006 at 5:22 pm  

    Sid (and Sukhjit),

    Thanks for the link, Sid. I’ve just posted a reply on that thread in order to correct the misinformation Abdurahman appears be propagating.

  32. El Cid — on 26th November, 2006 at 5:55 pm  

    What was all that about the Spanish Civil War? WTF? The man’s insane. Where did he read that stuff? Did he get it from a book?
    A “Catholic ummah”… hmmm I presume he’s talking about Franco’s nationalists — a coalition of facists, carlists, and conservatives. I supposed militant catholicism was an ideal these shared against the ungodly republicans… but… Franco’s foreign friends were the facist states of Mussolini and Hitler, not Catholic volunteers from around the world… Sorry, I’m giving this moron too much attention. I should have ignored Douglas’ tantalising teaser….
    Where was I? Yes, Soumaya Ghannoushi strikes me as a rather smart lady. I enjoyed reading her article. However, there are a couple of things that I dearly wish she would address. 1) Is it not normal and unavoidable for most migrants to any country’s shores to begin near the bottom of its socioeconomic ladder? If not, what would she have us do: give every immigrant the material benefits of an average native straight away? Would that be practical? Would it be fair to everyone else below the average? Do you think they would accept it? 2) And does she not recognise that white people can also be poor and face hurdles to their upward mobility and wouldn’t it be fresher and, dare I say it, more practical to think of an even broader coalition than she imagines. Personally, I think Britain is ready for it. Ok, I’ll rephrase that: I want it to be.

  33. PedanticLurker — on 26th November, 2006 at 6:26 pm  

    El Cid,

    Is it not normal and unavoidable for most migrants to any country’s shores to begin near the bottom of its socioeconomic ladder?

    I always find it peculiar how identity politics types simultaneously (1) demand ever more immigration (particularly of their co-ethnics and/or co-religionists), justified on the basis that immigrants “do the jobs the natives won’t”, and (2) bitch that their largely immigrant co-ethnics (who, remember, are doing “the jobs the natives won’t”) are poorer than the national average.

  34. Douglas Clark — on 26th November, 2006 at 7:30 pm  

    El Cid,

    Sorry about the teaser ;) .

    I hope the chap will learn a lesson, he’s now heading into the rise of the National Socialist Party in Germany and how that informs race relations. That is really, really dodgy territory.

    I would very much like to support the last bit of your post above. It seems to me that the coalition that you mention knocks the socks off any narrower concept.

    Hopefully this is the beta version of the NGN manifesto and it will be tweaked to accomodate a lot of the valid comments made this week.

    I’m glad you could understand what Soumaya Ghannoushi was on about, as even after reading it three times, I wasn’t too sure. It would have been nice if she’d clarified a bit, but, she didn’t.

    Shame really.

  35. Jagdeep — on 26th November, 2006 at 7:31 pm  

    Did anyone read the response from the Sikh Federation and Hindu Forum in the Guardian letters? Ooooh the persecution!

  36. Sunny — on 26th November, 2006 at 7:32 pm  

    Jagdeep, when and where? I didn’t see that!

  37. Jagdeep — on 26th November, 2006 at 7:32 pm  

    I’m glad you could understand what Soumaya Ghannoushi was on about, as even after reading it three times, I wasn’t too sure. It would have been nice if she’d clarified a bit, but, she didn’t.

    She’s very angry about something to do with Islam and Great Britain, and she told a proverb about a camel farting at the end of her story, and compared the NGN with that.

  38. Sunny — on 26th November, 2006 at 7:34 pm  

    I just saw that:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,,1956590,00.html

    Funny. They posted the same messages in the Guardian comments underneath our manifesto.

  39. Jagdeep — on 26th November, 2006 at 7:36 pm  

    Sunny, in some ways it is good that they are learning manners.

    Sikh Federation and Hindu Council in letter writing shocker!

    Three words — ISYF and Behzti and MF Husain

  40. Jagdeep — on 26th November, 2006 at 7:37 pm  

    ie: what was their stance with all of those. Sunny, you need to read Sikhs in Britain by Gurharpal Singh, it gives the lowdown on them fully, amongst other things.

  41. Douglas Clark — on 26th November, 2006 at 8:14 pm  

    Jagdeep, (37),

    That was blinding clarity and no mistake.

    It is all clear to me now. Couldn’t you just become her ghost writer. It would make life so much easier.

  42. Douglas Clark — on 26th November, 2006 at 8:34 pm  

    There has been comment up thread about a chap called Abdurahman whom some, on CiF, seem to be assuming is the MCB legal guy. Is there any way of finding out whether he is or he isn’t?

    If he is, then I think they are holed below the waterline. If not it’s a clever switch.

  43. Rav — on 26th November, 2006 at 8:50 pm  
  44. Douglas Clark — on 26th November, 2006 at 8:58 pm  

    Dunno,

    He might be, and then again he might not. I came across stuff about him, no photo though. It just seems too easy a target, I doubt a MCB high heid yin would be carrying on such a poorly argued case. Especially not a lawyer. They tend to be quite clever and cover up knowledge gaps much better than this guy is doing. I don’t think we can assume he is the MCB guy. Hell, I’ll ask him.

  45. Douglas Clark — on 26th November, 2006 at 9:07 pm  

    Done it.

    “Abdurahman,

    Can I ask whether or not you are Abdurahman Jafar of the MCB? Or any other Abdurahman associated with the MCB? Some people here seem to think you might be representing their views, and we wouldn’t want that if your not, now, would we?”

    Apart from ‘your’ rather than ‘you’re’, it’s fair, isn’t it?

  46. sabinaahmed — on 26th November, 2006 at 9:23 pm  

    There was a letter in yesterdays Telegraph,signed by all the religious leaders.Including the Secretory general of MCB,the Hindu council,and the director of Sikh organisation along with Jew and Christian represetatives.
    They are demanding freedom for religion.Is there a link?

  47. Sunny — on 26th November, 2006 at 9:23 pm  

    He is that guy. He admitted on a previous thread. I’m writing an article for tomorrow pulling him up on it. Soumaya’s article is too hilarious and vague to deserve a proper response.

  48. Jagdeep — on 26th November, 2006 at 9:29 pm  

    Here it is Sabina

    Holy Letter Writers

    The money line:

    It is time for governments to give greater recognition to the importance of religious freedoms, in common with other issues of equality and tolerance, in promoting peace, prosperity and security.

    —-

    I don’t mind Dr Indarjit Singh who signed this. As far as they go, he is OK.

  49. Douglas Clark — on 26th November, 2006 at 9:39 pm  

    OK folks:

    here is someone that says they know:

    Lopakhin

    November 26, 2006 09:23 PM

    “Douglas – yes he is, he said so the other day.”

    And Sunny too.

    I am just someone who needs to see it for themselves. Sorry. Could someone please point me to the spot where he said it? This is frankly unbelievably bad. This is a chap that claims to speak for all Muslims and who is comprehensively demolished on history.

    I am caught in their ridiculous 30 minute rule, although others don’t seem to be. Any clues?

  50. miraxx — on 26th November, 2006 at 9:49 pm  

    I remember something similar Douglas, where Abdurahman mentioned that he was not homophobic by way of testifying to the diversity of views within the MCB.

  51. ZinZin — on 26th November, 2006 at 9:50 pm  

    Post then go back to page upon which you posted. delete comments and add new comments. Then post again

  52. Douglas Clark — on 26th November, 2006 at 10:04 pm  

    Zinzin,

    Cheers.

    miraxx,

    Now you mention it, I remember it too. I would have thought it was important to capture it. Dunno where it is though.

  53. Douglas Clark — on 27th November, 2006 at 12:40 am  

    Bloody hell,

    It seems that our Abdurahman is who we thought he was.

    See here:

    In this post:

    http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/inayat_bunglawala/2006/11/its_not_personal_sunny_its_str_1.html

    he says he is vice Chair of the MCB’s Legal Affairs Committee.

    Here you can see his name:

    http://www.mcb.org.uk/chomepage.php?com_id=7

    Seems pretty conclusive.

    And I thought we were fighting against people with ammunition. Bloody hell.

    Thanks to aidenmat2 and lophakin.

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