Could this mean a change in Pakistani attitude towards Ahmadis?
Express India reports (via @afpakchannel):
Former Pakistan Prime Minister and PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif has created ripples in Pakistan’s political and religious circles by saying that the members of the minority Ahmedi sect are his brothers and sisters and that militants should be flushed out wherever they are active.
Speaking a week after 95 Ahmedis were killed during terrorist attacks on two mosques of the sect that has been declared “non-Muslim” under Pakistani laws, Sharif said the Ahmedis too are citizens of the country.
Excellent and brave stance, in a country where militants have always been allowed to get away with massacring Ahmadis for decades without any blowback. Some extremists have inevitably attacked him, but I wonder if this marks a turning point in the debate. I can’t see this being an electoral stunt given it’s more likely to lose him votes than gain any. Although the extremists are suggesting Obama put pressure on him to say that… Say what, Pakistan watchers?
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Filed in: Pakistan,South Asia
Even if he was leant on to say that, it’s probably not going to win him any new support or even lose him any of his core support. Having said that, he has very close ties with saudi arabia so not sure how they’ll take it.
i dont see this having much traction with the murderers.
He is not making a theological claim. more a civic one.
The Lahore-based journalist Raza Rumi, a policy analyst and the editor of Lahore’s Friday Times publication, has written a number of excellent articles about this on one of his own blogs, offering an inside perspective from the liberal section of urban Pakistani society :
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/05/29/lahore%e2%80%99s-now-the-latest-target-of-taliban/
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/05/29/lahore-%e2%80%93-a-nightmare-that-is-still-not-over/
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/05/29/al-jazeera-deaths-in-pakistan-mosques-raids/
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/05/30/is-this-jinnahs-pakistan/
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/06/04/bleak-prospects/
Raza Rumi has some very strong views about the persecution of Ahmadis and the attempts by extremist Islamist groups to “Talibanise” Pakistan. He’s also mentioned in the Al Jazeera article quoted in the 3rd URL link above.
The Lahore-based journalist Raza Rumi, a policy analyst and the editor of Lahore’s Friday Times publication, has written a number of excellent articles about this on one of his own blogs, offering an inside perspective from the liberal section of urban Pakistani society :
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/05/29/lahore%e2%80%99s-now-the-latest-target-of-taliban/
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/05/29/lahore-%e2%80%93-a-nightmare-that-is-still-not-over/
(continued)
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/05/30/is-this-jinnahs-pakistan/
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/06/04/bleak-prospects/
Raza Rumi has some very strong views about the persecution of Ahmadis and the attempts by extremist Islamist groups to “Talibanise” Pakistan. He’s also quoted in this article originally from Al Jazeera :
http://www.razarumi.com/2010/05/29/al-jazeera-deaths-in-pakistan-mosques-raids/
Actually Nawaz Sharif seems to have backtracked on his words after Mullahs lodged a campaign. His spokesperson says he meant all minorities are brothers and should live like brother among them. For anyone who can read Urdu here is the link to news;
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100963249&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20100608&sms_ss=email
Leading Urdu dailies are already spreading venom declaring Ahmadis blasphemers (worthy of killing in Muslim speak) with Punjab government taking no action.
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100963423&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20100608&sms_ss=email
Not much change on ground.
Excellent and brave stance, in a country where militants have always been allowed to get away with massacring Ahmadis for decades without any blowback.
This is laughable… Nawaz Sharif… Anybody with cursory knowledge of Pak politics will know that his party PML-N has been bedfellows with Punjabi Taliban (precisely the punters who massacred the Ahmedis) in a bid to gain power in Pakistan. Wonder how this goes down with his core constituency…
brave man to say that – why cant all other politicians follow in his footsteps
Our self-proclaimed demagogues
http://tribune.com.pk/story/20271/our-self-proclaimed-demagogues/
http://www.aajkal.com.pk/news/2010/6/11/editorial_n1.jpg
I never really cared for Ahmadis
http://tribune.com.pk/story/21267/i-never-really-cared-for-ahmadis/
Hasan, thanks for your links, through them I came to learn of thes positive developments:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/21432/crisis-hotline-for-minorities-on-the-table/
Let’s hope the hint of repealing anti-minority laws is made into a firm commitment soon.
Nawaz Sharif backtracks…back to square one almost
Statement about Ahmadis misinterpreted, says Nawaz
PML-N Quaid Mian Nawaz Sharif has said that the constitution guarantees the rights of minorities and it is their obligation to show respect to the sentiments of the majority.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=244866
@Arif:
May be the first few calls to government hotline can be for persecution under government’s own apartheid laws such as this one;
ORDINANCE NO. XX OF 1984 PART II – AMENDMENT OF THE PAKISTAN PENAL CODE (ACT XLV OF 1860) (3) 298C… Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves ‘Ahmadis’ or by any other name), who … invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.
..or against government financed and sponsored hate conferences;
http://criticalppp.org/lubp/archives/11797
Problem is not that government does not know but that government itself leads the persecution.
@Arif:
Pakistan is an apartheid state with similarities with Israel. Even some in Pakistan realise that;
http://tribune.com.pk/story/19048/is-pakistan-like-israel-or-north-korea/
http://tribune.com.pk/story/20809/is-pakistan-like-israel/
It’s just that we hear a lot about one apartheid state but not much about the other.
Hi Hasan, this is a slightly different topic – but in terms of comparisons with Israel, I think there are some comparisons and differences that can be made, and I’m ambivalent towards the ones made in the articles you linked to, especially, Ayesha Siddiqa’s.
For me the most pertinent comparison is not the role of the military (I think they are very different, as the military is much more integrated in Israeli civil society, partly due to compulsory military service, while in Pakistan it seems more like a “deep state”).
Nor do I think that Pakistan’s fixation on military solutions is very analogous to Israel’s as the Pakistani military is used to losing wars and territory – but its status is maintained as the last bulwark given the periodic failure of the politicians and civil service to keep Pakistan together. Israel’s military also seems to differ in terms of being an occupying force (placing certain burdens on it), which has fought wars on many fronts and is relatively closely aligned itself with the short and long term strategies of the political class.
I also think that the weakness of liberal discourses in both countries is due to very different dynamics, and what liberalism might constitute in both countries is probably very different.
The further comparison with North Korea only makes sense to me in terms of Pakistan’s loss of position as a US client after the Russians left Afghanistan, while Israel’s client status has remained. This has had important repercussions for how Pakistan has to formulate its policies, concentrating on meeting US interests in order to avoid being treated as a rogue state. But is slightly beside the point.
But I do think the final part of the discussion – on the position of Ahmadis – can be usefully compared to that of Palestinian Israelis. In some ways Israel is perhaps only catching up in terms of Jamaat-e-Islami hysteria about creating loyalty tests.
The second article is more to the point. Pakistan’s creation has been ambiguous in a similar way to that of Israel (are they legitimising themselves as secular states for the safety of otherwise threatened Jews/Muslims – or are they religious states for the expression of Jewish/Muslim identity) and some of the ongoing political dynamics are related to that. Ahmadis have been easy for both Pakistani sides to target because they have been accused of somehow being a colonial creation to promote divide and rule by others. I think the counter-discourse has to target this lazy perception as an important step.
Unlike in Israel, I think that Ahmadi rights can also be part of Pakistani nationalist narratives much more easily than Palestinian rights can be part of Israeli nationalist narratives. We could work on that.
I don’t know if “apartheid state” makes so much sense in Pakistan’s case. Both States would be radically different if they reorganised on a human rights basis. I take the “Apartheid State” to relate more pointedly to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians in occupied/besieged territories (like abntustans), for which the division between India and Pakistan is a very imperfect analogy given both sides in this conflict have sovereignty (and Pakistan is probably the weaker party). Nonetheless, in a human rights based discourse, I think those barriers should also be peacefully overcome in both regions.
Read below article…may be it’ll help…or not…people hate to find themselves as bad as those they like to criticise…human nature
Why Pakistan’s Ahmadi community is officially detested
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8744092.stm
Hasan, if you can explain in what sense you feel Pakistan is an Apartheid State, I’d find it easier to discuss this with you.
In brief, the position I gave above based on comparisons with Israel is that I feel Ahmadi people are treated worse than Palestinian Israelis, but not worse than Palestinian refugees/living in occupied territories.
If you wish to make the case for the label of Apartheid State, please explain in what sense you mean it. Is it in the sense that their are pass laws, bantustans, separation barriers, social segregation, economic segregation and exploitation, ghettos, limits on contacts as State policy…
Those are the things I typically associate with apartheid in South Africa.
It may be that there are these State policies in Pakistan and you need to raise my awareness of it.
I am already aware of the official discrimination, stigmatisation and human rights violations, which I would characterise as state-supported bigotry. Is this the sense in which you use the term?
Pakistan’s Medieval Constitution – Wall Street Journal
http://tinyurl.com/3xqlt4y
Unfortunately gone subscription only since yesterday.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/editorial/21-hate-speech-160-sk-04
“…or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims,”
Good grief, that can include almost anything. Perpetual outrage and offendedness seems to be the natural state of Pakistani Muslims.
I hope the Ahmadis get better treatment. Maybe that can be extended to Christians too, but as we know the western liberal left don’t really give a damn about them, so I won’t expect similar coverage of them here.