American mid-terms open thread
The main reason why the Democrats will not do as well as they could have, in tonight’s American mid-term elections, is because they have no effective leadership. No consistent message, no charismatic personalities and no effective fighters. Hilary Clinton has become a mirror image of Gordon Brown: so sure of victory in the party leadership elections that she is saying very little that would scupper her chances. John Kerry tried and fluffed up badly, again. He would be extremely stupid to run again later. If the Republicans carry on as they have then the 2008 elections will be an open goal for the Democrats. But they’ll need some different strikers; preferably Barack Obama (pictured) and John Edwards.
Update: Ok, so I underestimated how badly the Republicans were going to be trounced.
Democrats now control both the Houses. Minnesota elected the country’s first Muslim senator Member of the House. Rumsfeld is OUT!
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You’re a political junkie Sunny.
Still, what about Ortega in Nicaragua, eh?
I would *love* to see this kid run against McCain.
Sometimes I suspect the Democrats have become so used to losing it’s become the only thing they know how to do with aplomb!
Why do you say “preferaby Barack Obama”? What makes himbetter than any of the other possible contenders?
Because no one, ney Democrat nor Republican, could stand for another Clinton as President.
Anything but.
You’re a political junkie Sunny.
Yup!
Still, what about Ortega in Nicaragua, eh?
Funny! And entirely predictable…
What makes himbetter than any of the other possible contenders?
He has the abilities other pretenders to the crown don’t – charisma, charm, intelligence, personality, can appeal to the middle ground, and he’s not vested interests central (yet) like Hilary Clinton.
aw crap, looks like Harold Ford isn’t going to win in Tennessee.
Democrats one up though. And I hope Leiberman loses.
Sunny:
“The main reason why the Democrats will not do as well as they could have, in tonight’s American mid-term elections, is because they have no effective leadership. No consistent message, no charismatic personalities and no effective fighters.”
You forgot to add that they have no distinctive platform, no balls, no spine
And your cousin across the pond in the sunshine state of California has been consistently harrassed with phone calls from Governor Arnold encouraging me to vote, starting as early as 6:30 this morning (sarcastic jabs at Californians having elected Arnold as governor are welcome).
More than one political junkie out there… I’ve been looking forward to tonight for months.
Did Kerry really fluff it that badly? It seems to me that the joke he made was fairly obvious – the Republicans just feigned offence. Pretty disingenuous.
Watching the footage of the likes of Hilary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and all the news analysts, I’ve noticed that pretty much all the women politicians and pundits seem to have had cosmetic surgery – silicon implants, botox, collagen, and face-lifts.
That’s the problem with the USA – There’s no Margaret Becket.
There’s no Margaret Becket.
I’d say that was a good thing, even politically Dolly!
Robert – disingenuous of course but if the mud sticks then you’ve fluffed up regardless of what you actually said. In the way that Kerry fluffed up with his lines last time, regardless of what he actually meant.
Desi – Yeah I was trying to be nice to the Democrats but of course the lack of spine is also a problem
I was wondering where Sunny was watching the results as they came in? Just checked my TV and Radio guide and can’t find anything. Give me some URL’s if thats whats being used please!
It’s running on Sky News. BBC seem to have normal news running.
http://www.dailykos.com also has open threads with results. I believe it’s also useful to keep checking the CNN and ABCnews.com websites.
Democrats up by two; Pennsylvania and Ohio. They retain NY and Florida. I hope George “macaca” Allen loses badly too.
BBC Radio 4 have commentary too, apparently. I heard Jim Naughtie trailing his election night show.
I’m glad to see Rick Santorum is a goner. Dan Savage can take some credit for that, I reckon.
Kieth Ellison = First Muslim in Congress. Allahu akbar!
Ooooooh!
Keith Ellison, a Democratic senator, has made history by being the first Muslim senator in Minnesota.
Democrats also take Rhode Island! Now +3. Need +6 to take the Senate.
Snap, Robert. Interesting that Ellison was formerly associated with Louis Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam.
Problem? I’d say that’s a sole positive aspect of the US…that they don’t have ‘a Margaret Becket’
What a complete disgrace to humanity she is…
At least other old labour fire-brand socialists like Tony Benn, Alan Simpson, Jeremy Corybn and John McDonnell…were consistent and held it down, Becket just turned into some robotron party-line woman!
If only we could replace her with a striking and compassionate intellectual like Claire Short…
Regarding the John Kerry ‘affair’
I’d say that his ‘comeback’ comments after his ‘gaffe’ were pretty precise and brilliant and he at least made some headway in reaching potential voters….
It would be a shame to chastize his whole distinguished career for telling the simple truth…look at the education level of recent troops sent to Iraq, do the maths..you know it’s accurate.
and if you still don’t agree…
this 45-second clip from family guy says it all….
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/64211/Family_Guy_Recruitment_Presentation.html
Yeah, catch up, Sunny! Some of us were adding that to the open thread bloody ages ago. A half-minute is a long time when you’re Pickling your Politics.
I guess you’re watching Skly News, like me? The Republican analyst just suggested that the Democrats would have wanted to lose that seat, because having a black, muslim congressman would be a mill-stone around their necks! Apart from sounding pretty racist, that sound like pre-election rhetoric to me. Having a high profile muslim could be just the thing that the USA needs to move the debate forward…
Or, do you worry that, as a former member of Nation of Islam, he will become a self-appointed ‘community leader’ with all the vices of MCB and MPAC?
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t..
Technically, can you get damned in Islam?
That Republican analyst needs to be locked into a suitcase and thrown into the sea…
If only we could replace her with a striking and compassionate intellectual like Claire Short
Nyrone I wouldn’t call Clare Short compassionate by any stretch of the imagination. Her record on Africa was worse than awful mate. She is all talk and no action.
Robert, lol. I know… damn you beat me to it. Yeah I’m watching Sky too and was going to mention that guy’s comments. Surprising the other woman did not counter by saying that if him being a Muslim or being associated with NoI was going to be a problem he would have lost already!? I doubt someone with similar views to MPAC would get anywhere near the senate. In fact they wouldn’t even be nominated. So I think a good result for the Democrats.
Sunny/
Who would you call compassionate?
How would you measure compassion?
I’m probably being biased after hearing her lecture at the LSE on Monday, but I was truly struck by the clarity and intelligence of her speech, which was miles better than most of the crap I’ve heard from politicians during these past 3 years.
She continually hit the nail on the head regarding a plethora of crucial issues that we face in this country and globally as human citizens. I refer to compassion because it was a clear and self-defined theme of her talk, and being a former secretary of state for international development, you would imagine she would have a good, demonstratable record on issues like social justice and human rights, and she certainly made a point of highlighting injustices specifically and with precision, such as atrocities in Sudan, Burma, Palestine and Guantanamo.
Africa remains a jigsaw piee of the increasingly interconnected world we live in, and as Claire Short attempted a systematic reduction of poverty in various developing countries related to regional position and GDP, I would have liked to believe that her intentions for Africa were naturally sincere and like-wise.
However, point taken…and I’m going to research some of the practical steps and decisions she has taken over the course of the past few years to back-up what she has publicly stated.
Crap – Leiberman wins.
Hilary Clinton starts her speech with: “I just think democracy is great. Isn’t it?” – no shit sherlock.
Nyrone – Sure I’d just say don’t exactly base everyone on one speech… look at her record. Politicians usually hit the nail on the head in speeches, that’s their job. In action is where it counts.
Democrats take control of House of Representatives! Probably not the Senate though.
Looks close– Demos could take the Senate. At least according to CNN. Need 3 more seats.
As a pessimistic American, though, I don’t feel ecstatic about the Demos taking over. I’ve always maintained that fundamentally, the Demos don’t differ too much.
George Macacca Allen is ahead by a slim margin.
CNN is apocalyptically announcing that this is going to be a dramatic and drastic change.
I have heard this prediction every election; nothing really changes.
I’ll stop with the cynicism
“As a pessimistic American, though, I don’t feel ecstatic about the Demos taking over. I’ve always maintained that fundamentally, the Demos don’t differ too much.”
They aren’t different, but if these elections mean anything, people want them to be different. I’m making an effort not to be as pessimistic as I usually am
Missouri!
And Allen will go down if Webb manages to get through the recount. Fingers crossed and all that.
“no shit sherlock”
Sunny, tsk
I’m just glad Bush doesn’t get to walk away from his term in office with delusions of grandeur. I can only dream the world will become a less angry place once he’s gone, but for now, seeing that smug smirk wiped off his face will do me just fine
(the conspiracist in me fears another bombing in the horizon, and the rational in me says it’s just dumb luck that there’s always a bombing somewhere just when Bush feels his support on the war of terror slipping away, but I hope we’re both wrong. God bless the world)
It’s a good day
(PS. Dunno why you lot slag off John Kerry. Any man that can string a sentence together without the aid of wires has got to be a better prospect than what America has to put up with for the next two years. Or woman…)
It is my considered opinion, based on a lifetime of political watching, that in every western country, a new administration comes in with (some) new ideas, and then the civil servants sit them down, and tells them exactly what they can and can’t do.
not civil servants, the illuminati masters
Barack is too young an inexperienced to run in 2008. I wouldn’t be surprised that he’s offered a place as running mate/potential vice President though on Clintons campaign…
Your collective optimism regarding Barack is sweet if mentalist. If anyone really thinks the bible belt of America is going to allow anyone other than a white christian man to run their country, you’re crazier than a conspiracy theorist who thinks zion is a spaceship. You’re quite right Tupac Shakur, you ain’t never gonna see a black president
From what I have read Nyrone, you’re the disgrace to humanity
Bit harsh?
This thread starts: ‘The main reason why the Democrats will not do as well…’
Winning control of the US house of representatives means they’ve done pretty well I’d say…
El Cid…
what’s the problem, love?
You’re right chairwoman.
It’s always the same, why even get your hopes up?
The truth is that people in the UK actually thought Tony Blair’s goverment was going to be fresh and different back in 1997, and look what happened there…
Democrats talk about ‘a change’ in Iraq…
well, from the looks of it….they don’t really have any other choice. I want to know what is being done about the 8 permenant bases that are currently being set-up there in Iraq…what’s going on with those?
I’ve pretty much disliked everything that Hilary Clinton has said…she doesn’t seem even slightly sincere and this great u-turn on Iraq is pretty much in line with what I would expect.
She suddenly changed her tune when she realised that more than half the country opposed the war.
Leon @ 35 – That’s my opinion too.
Nyrone – I saw a Democrat interviewed on BBC Breakfast News, and the first thing she said, after how thrilled she was, of course, was that they had no immediate intention to bring the troops home. No change there then.
Yep, and I agree with Kisy in part, even a Vice President position is still very optimistic at this point.
What about a woman president?
Barack Obamma for prez? Charisma? Charm? Intelligence? The man is as dull as a sack of hammers.
And almost as intelligent.
Did someone slip something into your orange juice this morning Sunny?
The majority of American voters will only go for a god-fearing christian man with a pronouncable christian name like george or bill
Not very many funny or foreign sounding names when it comes to US presidents. Here’s the whole list:
http://www.facts-about.org.uk/american-president-list.htm
Hm Van Buren, Roosevelt and Eisenhower are the nearest to foreign sounding.
Nyrone,
Only as harsh as you were
So the choice is between staying true to naive old leftyism of a devil-may-care debt-free youth, or becoming inhuman. right.
You are with me or against me!!!
Jokez!!
Cid, I respect your point and perhaps I was too absoloutist in my post, but after seeing supposedley ’socialist’ people like Margaret Becket and Jack Straw ridiculously defending the war in Iraq on BBC’s question time…i just think it’s kind of disgraceful that she can still claim to represent something she has veered so far away from.
“What about a woman president?”
Ha! We just barely got our first female Speaker! And the Republicans targeted that fact during the campaign.
So a female president? We can keep dreaming…
RUMMY IS STEPPING DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/us/politics/09BUSHCND.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6130296.stm
as they say in Glasgow:YAH BEAUTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But Anas, have you given anyone a celebratory Glasgow kiss?
I’d like to give Rummy several.
Did anyone notice how Jon Snow on C4 news wanted to do nothing but grill the 2 democrats on what they were now planning to do on Iraq, and all they seemed to want to do was to avoid the question?
If I hear “we need a new approach” one more time I’m gonna scream! What do you actually mean???
I doubt things will change much in Iraq in the short term. It was more of a moral and symbolic victory than anything.
Gentlemen, may I refer you to my number 42.
Spot on Chairwoman.
“I saw a Democrat interviewed on BBC Breakfast News, and the first thing she said, after how thrilled she was, of course, was that they had no immediate intention to bring the troops home. No change there then.”
“Did anyone notice how Jon Snow on C4 news wanted to do nothing but grill the 2 democrats on what they were now planning to do on Iraq, and all they seemed to want to do was to avoid the question?”
“I doubt things will change much in Iraq in the short term. It was more of a moral and symbolic victory than anything.”
Oh, you guys noticed too?
See, this is why I am cynical. And pessimistic. I know what the strategists for the Democratic campaign were thinking: “Don’t say anything too drastic; we can’t afford to lose votes to the Repubicans. Stay as harmless as possible.” Which translates as:
Stay in the middle. Don’t stray too, too far from the Repubicans’ platform.
That is why I think the Demos are a bunch of pathetic Repubican wannabes. They still can’t bring themselves to say the words, “BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW.” and put it into action. This despite the fact that opinion polls (can be flawed as an indicator of voter behavior, though) overwhelmingly demonstrate that the American public thinks that the war in Iraq was a big mistake and has become a disaster.
And a lot didn’t vote. I havent’ checked the percentage of voter turnout, but my two roommates told me frankly last night, “I didn’t vote. And really, why bother?” One said that after Bush got re-elected the second time around, she just felt that her vote didn’t count at all. She said “I know it’s the wrong thing to do– I should get out there and vote. But is it really going to make a difference?”
Granted, we are in California, which is a Demo stronghold.
What this result might do is make them think twice about invading Iran.
I hope.
Or they might be paniced into doing just that – reshape the middle east in their own image while they still have time.
Or they might be just stupid to do it anyway – there are signs of stupidity of this magnitude in bits of the right wing press (Iraq is a ’success’ because terrorism is a ‘product of order in the Middle East’).
Rumsfeld has gone – finishing his second stint as SecDef – just after it might have actually done some good, practically and politically.
And his replacement has form – from the Iran-Contra affair.
“What this result might do is make them think twice about invading Iran.”
I don’t know…. I mean, this administration has brazenly done things that normally one would think twice before doing. They were able to convince Americans (who are generally totally uninformed and/or misinformed about US foreign policy) that Iraq had WMD. When that pretense became discredited, they led Americans to believe the second justification about “bringing Democracy to the Mid East.” And guess what? I have heard a lot of Americans actually believe this and repeat it.
Oh they’ve done pretty well alright, the Dems won the house. What else is needed? The Rebs got murdered!!
As for the presidential candidacy. I’m rooting for Obama. It’s about time that the right wing republicans get shown the equality of colour in the higher ranks.
“I’m rooting for Obama. It’s about time that the right wing republicans get shown the equality of colour in the higher ranks.”
Er… Rice and Powell were/are in pretty high up positions during the rule of this administration, and they are of color….
I don’t think the skin color matters so much as to whether a specific person’s politics are in line with those in power.
They’ve done well… but not as well as they could have! C’mn folks… Bush has had the lowest ratings of any President EVER (I believe, apart from just before Nixon resigned). They could have killed it.
Anyone see David Frum on Newsnight arguing that Rumsfeld should have gone earlier?!? WTF!
AP is reporting Webb beating George ‘I’m a rascist’ Allen.
Looks like the thundercats have control of the senate.
The first thing they should do is let Snarf become US state rep and replace all those borning Merc’s with over-sized thundertanks hand-built by Panthro.
My mom’s husband (a Pakistani-American) was the past chair of the Republican party in Fairfax County, VA (oh the political debates we have) and hosted fundraisers for George Allen in the past (out of obligation). Even then, he was annoyed at his arrogance. After macaca-gate, he quit.
Nice to see the Republican’s last hopes being dashed because of the one man who made a racist comment towards a South Asian.
If I hear “we need a new approach” one more time I’m gonna scream! What do you actually mean???
Me too, I’m sick of hearing that. As for Rummy, a big facking w00000t!
Did anyone see the ITV news lat night? It was an incredible, scathing report, even showed Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam and mentioning how the US and him were once allies (where was that reported during the run up to the war?)!? Amazing stuff…
They’ve done well… but not as well as they could have! C’mn folks… Bush has had the lowest ratings of any President EVER (I believe, apart from just before Nixon resigned). They could have killed it.
I agree and what’s more nobody should let these events remove their hostility/suspicion of the powerful. The Democrats need to be scrutinised just as much as the Bush etc.
Let’s face it, a part of the repleblicans must be kinda grateful to have them on board. This way, when they fuck up, they can say: it wasn’t us guv, it were them dimocrats wot done it
nyrone,
Lion-O was my first boyfriend.
hey sunny
the muslim guy from MN is not senator. He’s a member of the house.