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  • One down…


    by Al-Hack
    3rd November, 2006 at 8:19 pm    

    A retired priest committed suicide by setting himself on fire in a German monastery in protest at the spread of Islam and the Protestant Church’s inability to contain it. Roland Weisselberg, 73, poured a can of petrol over his head and set light to himself in the grounds of the Augustine monastery in the eastern city of Erfurt, where Martin Luther spent six years as a monk at the beginning of the 16th century.

    From The Times. So…who’s next?


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    Filed in: Current affairs,Religion






    64 Comments below   |  

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    1. ZinZin — on 3rd November, 2006 at 8:33 pm  

      A priest committing suicide?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Its a mortal sin.
      Satan put more pokers in the fire.

    2. Douglas Clark — on 3rd November, 2006 at 8:45 pm  

      It is tragic that someone is so unwordly that they think the contradiction is Christianity and Islaam. RIP.

      Wishy washy religion won’t take Islaam down. Rock and Roll will!

    3. Anas — on 3rd November, 2006 at 10:56 pm  

      I wish Melanie Philips, et al, would follow this dude’s lead.

    4. PFM — on 3rd November, 2006 at 11:14 pm  

      thats too easy anas, she much prefers to write crap books. she can torment more of us that way.

    5. Nyrone — on 3rd November, 2006 at 11:21 pm  

      What a totally idiotic gesture….
      I’m glad he’s dead….more room for rational human beings.

    6. Clairwil — on 3rd November, 2006 at 11:48 pm  

      What an awful tragedy! Imagine feeling so deeply over so little. The mind can be a terrible thing.

    7. Amir — on 3rd November, 2006 at 11:51 pm  

      Look at this way: at least he set himself on fire, instead of other human beings.

      Peggy Noonan – in an eloquent piece for the Wall Street Journal – noted that the people in the World Trade Center, realizing that they were about to be crushed or slashed or incinerated, didn’t express hate or fear; they called home to leave messages of love. Think about it: It was their last chance on earth to say anything to anyone, and all they could think of was “I love you.” It is these three words – “I love you” – which first attracted me to the Christian faith and the example of Jesus Christ. It is also the reason why I have more respect for Roland Weisselberg than the imams of Darfur and Dammam, Belgium or Baghdad, Tower Hamlets and Tehran. A silly motive? Not if you ask the Algerian Berbers, Egyptian Copts, or Iraqi Christians.

      Laugh and smirk and scoff all you want Al-Hack. But my goodwill, and the goodwill of other people, is running out. ;-)

    8. Clairwil — on 4th November, 2006 at 12:01 am  

      Indeed he did Amir and he should be commended as such. I just feel his suicide is a massive failure of proportion (aren’t they all). It isn’t something to be sneered at and I’m sorry if it came over as if I was doing so. Can’t speak for Al-Hack.

    9. Clairwil — on 4th November, 2006 at 12:03 am  

      or Nyrone, who’s comment is in my view utterly disgusting.

    10. Amir — on 4th November, 2006 at 12:04 am  

      Clairwill,

      Don’t worry. You did nothing of the sort.

      Meeoooww! ;-)

    11. Sahil — on 4th November, 2006 at 12:17 am  

      This is sooo fucking wrong on so many levels. RIP priest, but why the fuck did you do it!!!!!!!!!!!!

      The rise of Islam, are you fucking kidding me!! More than ever are people, not in the west, but in the core countries moving away from dogmatic Islam, and adapting it to a modern understanding! For gods sake, I feel bad for your family, and I hope this doesn’t happen again. Utterly tragic. And utterly ignorant.

    12. Clairwil — on 4th November, 2006 at 12:22 am  

      Cheers Amir,
      but I dont think I’m being catty

      ‘What a totally idiotic gesture….
      I’m glad he’s dead….more room for rational human beings.’

      We are not anywhere near short enough of space to justify that.

    13. Anas — on 4th November, 2006 at 1:04 am  

      There’s something called the Darwin awards, but since this guy was in his 70s he’d probably made his contributions to the gene pool already. Though maybe there was some other motivation for the suicide — I refuse to believe anyone could be that dense. Reminds me of this story from Geoffrey Falk’s Stripping the Guru’s:

      There was also, by abstinent contrast, the forty-year-old Buddhist monk who, as a protest against the sufferings of those in his country, planned to immolate himself on the steps of the Burmese embassy in Bangkok.

      As he spoke, I discovered an astonishing thing: although he planned to take his life to protest the great injustices he had fought against for many years, this was not the real reason for his decision. The true reason was that he had fallen in love with this young girl. He had been in monk’s robes since age fourteen and for twenty-nine years he had given his life to the order. He had no other skills and couldn’t imagine himself married, with a family, yet he loved her. He did not know what to do, so burning himself for political reasons seemed the best way out (Kornfield, 1993).

    14. Clairwil — on 4th November, 2006 at 1:12 am  

      ‘I refuse to believe anyone could be that dense’

      Try believing someone could be that devout, rather than that thick, it’s so much nicer and more plausible.

    15. Anas — on 4th November, 2006 at 1:26 am  

      Look at the rationale he gave: it was “[in]protest at the spread of Islam and the Protestant Church’s inability to contain it.” Devout or sceptic that’s dumb. I’d have given it more credence if he’d self-immolated in protest at the news of the cancellation of Bad Girls. Man, that’s real pain.

    16. Amir — on 4th November, 2006 at 1:53 am  

      Clairwil,

      On a previous thread, you said that I reminded you of a cat (in a nice way). I was being affectionate - or, at least, “attempting”. Heh heh.

      Purrrrrr ;-)

    17. Nyrone — on 4th November, 2006 at 2:22 am  

      Clairwill/

      I’m glad you found my comment disgusting. I found your response empty, vacant and pointless.

      When confronted with the stupidity of a non-story on this scale, the only reply I could muster was one of tongue-in-cheek.
      I was of course joking, but am totally serious about how ridiculous it is to dwell and intellectualize on every person that does something illogical and plain stupid.

      I’m guessing you have never heard of fighting politics with satire and comedy? I mean…seriously, what other way is there to deal with some of the extraordinary stuff happening across the globe than to take a step back and remark on how absurd it all is?

      The problem with individuals who go out of their to post reactionary ‘moral’ posts is that most of them are talking out of their backsides, and most of what they ‘write’ is simply theoretical fluff that they don’t follow in their own lives and only post as a means of solidifying a glorifying self-definition of themselves.

      I’m not saying that’s you, but please be aware that sometimes people will react differently to you, and respond in ways that feel honest to them, and are not necessarily politically correct and artifically ‘dignified’.

    18. Amir — on 4th November, 2006 at 2:39 am  

      Nyrone,

      “I’m not saying that’s you, but please be aware that sometimes people will react differently to you”

      Yes, precisely. And sometimes, some people will react with “moral posts”. And yet, paradoxically, you don’t like it when people do that - yet, paradoxically, you tell us to respect the way “you” react - yet, paradoxically, not liking the way “I” react.

      You get the idea.

    19. Nyrone — on 4th November, 2006 at 9:47 am  

      well Amir…paradoxically I’ve always felt that it paradoxical that it was not paradoxically impossible to be ironically paradoxical in a broader paradoxical-related context to being blatantly paradoxical.

      wouldn’t you agree?

    20. Bert Preast — on 4th November, 2006 at 10:33 am  

      I can’t believe what I’m reading here. If this man was anything but a christian we’d all be wondering what could have driven him to such a desperate act. Instead we’re taking the piss. Remember the Vietnamese monk who did the same thing to protest the new system enroaching on his country? Bit of a marked difference in attitude.

      Also shows why Mad Mel was utterly wrong the other day in saying we need christianity to protect us, and I was utterly right in my assessment that they’re too big a bunch of wussies.

    21. Chairwoman — on 4th November, 2006 at 11:03 am  

      Self immolation is always sad, I don’t actually agree with Bert that if it hadn’t been a Christian we’d all have wondered why he did it. I do remember the Vietnamese monk. The majority of people considered that he was misguided, but setting oneself on fire seemed more in keeping with his culture than ours.

    22. Don — on 4th November, 2006 at 11:32 am  

      Good to see Al-Hack is maintaining his usual standards; cut, paste, cheap sneer.

    23. Riz — on 4th November, 2006 at 12:22 pm  

      It is sad that a man feels so strongly about any perceived wrong that he takes to burning himself to death in protest. I suppose you could take the view that suicide isn’t as bad as making your point by attacking and killing others - that is my first thought. Then I thought: actually, this type of suicide is not so much a quiet death of someone who has completely given up on a cause, but that it is designed as a shout out to the world, and is in effect, a clarion call to action…albeit a final call. This method also creates greater empathy with the protagnist, in contrast with the widespread hatred generated when someone launches an attacks on others based on their strongly held beliefs. For sure, this type of death will bring the priest’s views to the fore and into debate. The Times article doesn’t go into any depth on what his exact his views are but they appear to divisive between Muslims and Christians. His death: not good. His cause: not good. The likely implications of his death: not good.

    24. PFM — on 4th November, 2006 at 12:28 pm  

      im surprised noone has blamed ‘islam’ for murdering him yet.

    25. Kulvinder — on 4th November, 2006 at 2:35 pm  

      I don’t really ‘get’ the thread but neither do i understand the issue people have with it. I have no problem with someone commiting suicide - it is their life - but neither do i have a problem with laughing at people who kill themselves for idiotic reasons.

      If a sikh threw himself off a building to protest his inability to stop the rise of anarcho-syndicalism it chuckle.

    26. Vikrant — on 4th November, 2006 at 2:37 pm  

      Anas and Nyrone, your comments are just SICK!

    27. Vikrant — on 4th November, 2006 at 2:38 pm  

      Ditto! I’ve been saying this all along.

    28. Vikrant — on 4th November, 2006 at 2:40 pm  

      Good to see Al-Hack is maintaining his usual standards; cut, paste, cheap sneer.

      Ditto! I’ve been saying this all along.

    29. Anas — on 4th November, 2006 at 2:48 pm  

      That’s the thing, Kulvinder. It’s just so absurd. I mean, you can only take the incident seriously if you give any credence to his supposed rationale, that the spread of Islam in Europe somehow poses a major threat.

    30. Anas — on 4th November, 2006 at 2:48 pm  

      I’ll take that as a compliment, Vik.

    31. Anas — on 4th November, 2006 at 3:25 pm  

      Is that second sentence an incitement to arson, Steve?

    32. Katy — on 4th November, 2006 at 3:29 pm  

      I really wonder about some of you sometimes. What sort of person would gloat over the painful death of an elderly man who, whatever you might think of his views, hasn’t hurt or tried to hurt anyone apart from himself?

    33. Katy — on 4th November, 2006 at 3:31 pm  

      Anas, please do not feed the trolls ;)

    34. Kulvinder — on 4th November, 2006 at 3:40 pm  

      What sort of person would gloat over the painful death of an elderly man who, whatever you might think of his views, hasn’t hurt or tried to hurt anyone apart from himself?

      Not gloating just accepting the absurdity, have you ever laughed at the darwin awards?

      Showing their true colours on Pickled Politics. Nick Griffins words now ring oh so true.

      What colours; what words?

    35. Chairwoman — on 4th November, 2006 at 3:45 pm  

      Kulvinder - I suppose he means brown, black and Jewish colours :-)

    36. Anas — on 4th November, 2006 at 3:45 pm  

      Katy, it’s not just trolling, Steve is calling for mosques to be set on fire.

    37. Sunny — on 4th November, 2006 at 3:59 pm  

      Anas - that is trolling. Just because some internet hatemonger says something doesn’t mean you have to take it seriously.

    38. Katy — on 4th November, 2006 at 4:12 pm  

      Kulvinder - at the risk of sounding precious, I think it’s a sad and solemn thing when people die, even if they brought it upon themselves. I’ve never really got the Darwin awards, myself. But I was more thinking of the choice of “one down” as the title for this post.

      Anas - I know. But comments on the internet are like graffiti: unless you actually physically catch someone posting, there is nothing that you can do about it, apart from ignore it or wash it off.

    39. Don — on 4th November, 2006 at 5:08 pm  

      The Darwin awards, yeah the punch lines like ‘… the body of the 38 year old mother of two was recovered five miles downstream.’ just crack me up.

    40. miraxx — on 4th November, 2006 at 5:32 pm  

      I’d take it that the next time a thicko muslim perishes while flag/effigy burning over perceived insult or absurd belief, we’ll see The Hack chortling away with another “One Down!” headline?

    41. Vikrant — on 4th November, 2006 at 6:10 pm  

      The Hack chortling away with another “One Down!” headline?

      Maybe he’ll put up a score board just like the “Hindus/Sikhs Killed” scoreboard HuM used to maintain on their website.

    42. Jai — on 4th November, 2006 at 6:34 pm  

      I’m with Katy, especially her post #34.

      Self-immolation as a form of protest, something which unfortunately occurs on a fairly frequent basis back in India, is something I find to be an illogical course of action — self-mutilating emotional blackmail is something I’m dead against, and the only person it’s really going to hurt is the one setting fire to himself/herself. However, sniggering about another person’s death (regardless of the circumstances) is another step towards sadism and is corrosive for your own personality. It’s a very bad habit to cultivate.

      I think some people on this thread have had an empathy bypass.

      Have some basic human decency, at least.

    43. Yakoub/Julaybib — on 4th November, 2006 at 7:51 pm  

      This all assumes the story, or at least the part about him doing it because of Islam, is true. He ws 73. Perhaps he had Alzheimers? Perhaps his family are wanting to cover up the fact he took his own life because he was caught polishing his rod over the baptismal font? It doesn’t matter. Now he’s a martyr to right wing loonies. I bet the local fascists are already collecting for his shrine. And Zylon B.

      Wasalaam

      TMA

    44. El Cid — on 4th November, 2006 at 8:45 pm  

      ditto #22

    45. Not Saussure — on 5th November, 2006 at 11:08 am  

      I’m with Katy and Jai on this; my first thought on reading the story was that the poor guy was obviously mentally disturbed. The Darwin Awards are, as I understand it, for people who’re astonishingly and recklessly stupid rather than people who’re suffering from mental illness; we wouldn’t, I take it, be sniggering if he’d killed himself because the voices in his head had told him to do it, so why’s this any more amusing?

    46. Al-Hack — on 5th November, 2006 at 6:20 pm  

      I’d take it that the next time a thicko muslim perishes while flag/effigy burning over perceived insult or absurd belief, we’ll see The Hack chortling away with another “One Down!” headline?

      To be consistent, yes! The sooner religious loonies burn themselves the better.

      I think some people on this thread have had an empathy bypass.

      There are more important issues to empathise over. A person blowing up others while committing suicide is a terrorist. He does it to himself then he is harmless but still a fool.

    47. Kismet Hardy — on 5th November, 2006 at 6:49 pm  

      Bollocks. All this shite about not being disresctful to the dead is a crock of sentimentalist shite. He was a dick. He’s dead because he was old, possibly senile & pathetically misguided. If I ever burn myself to make a point, I fully expect everyone to say: here lies a truly attention seeking twat. He died because he was a dick

    48. Katy — on 5th November, 2006 at 6:57 pm  

      Yep, that’s me - a spewer of sentimentalist shite.

    49. Kismet Hardy — on 5th November, 2006 at 8:08 pm  

      you can spew in the sewer of my mind any day baby

    50. Rohin — on 5th November, 2006 at 8:18 pm  

      What a bizarre choice of headline, Al Hack.

    51. Sukhjit Singh — on 5th November, 2006 at 8:29 pm  

      Yeah, bad taste, dont like the headline. I feel sad that an old man probably with mental problems killed himself.

    52. Jagdeep — on 5th November, 2006 at 8:40 pm  

      Yeah….poor headline, raise your game please.

    53. Jagdeep — on 5th November, 2006 at 8:44 pm  

      I’d take it that the next time a thicko muslim perishes while flag/effigy burning over perceived insult or absurd belief, we’ll see The Hack chortling away with another “One Down!” headline?

      Actually I take that back. I have to admit that would be funny and hilarious, if Anjum Chauadhry or one of the ‘hang them and behead them’ crew became a shaheed after being burnt by the flag they were setting fire to :-)

      Nothing wrong with a bit of black comedy on a Sunday night….

    54. Clairwil — on 6th November, 2006 at 1:03 am  

      Nyrone,
      ‘I’m glad you found my comment disgusting. I found your response empty, vacant and pointless.’

      I find your response very curious indeed. You think possibly quite rightly that my response was empty vacant and pointless which means I deserve to be disgusted. Surely the decent thing to do would be to enlighten me. If there is a reason to laugh at the anguished death of a deluded old man that I’m just too silly to grasp I’d love to hear it. Go on educate me.

    55. Nyrone — on 6th November, 2006 at 4:45 am  

      Clairwil,

      I’m not seeking to educate anyone about anything.
      I just find it pedantic when I hear a chorus of “oh no, let’s be really ‘respectful’ of this man’s tragic death”
      It’s like people saying “im sorry” in an obligatory robotron sheep-fashion when someone informs them that their grandmother has died.

      Do you ever notice what happens in that exchange? The person looks down at his shoes mournfully, as if he is lost in thought at the profound pain the person opposite him is going through…

      Who gives a shit? Why is death something to be feared in the first place? perhaps it’s actually better than we are led to believe. I bet the dead person’s not unhappy about returning to his maker…so why this fake/insincere bullshit ‘respectfully remembering the memory’ everytime we hear of an abstract death on mainstream news? It’s just petty psychological wallpaper that we publicly state because that’s what we think we are supposed to say…well, i’m not buying it and hold the right to not be so banally politically-correct about stuff like this.

      I swear, some people are more sacred in death than they are in life..when they are gone we write nice things on their tombstones and comment at their funeral how “he was a great man” what about respecting that person when they were alive? some people tend to love their car more than they love other human beings…

      So while on the one hand I do think what happened was tragic, i on the other hand mostly feel it was pathetic, ridiculous, pointless and plain stupid…therefore I reserve the right to make light of it in the way that naturally hit me when I first read the article…and that was this man actually KILLED himself to make his point…he’s an attention-seeking, possibly senile and delusional individual..please let’s not pretend he was a wise old man with a cute fluffy dog that meditated in the park for global harmony and tranquility…he was a man who poured petrol over himself and set himself alight in protest at (what he percevied to be) the rise in local Islam…

      btw: I said that I found your points vacant, because you basically stated (hilariously in full-seriousness) that you found my initial comment disgusting (without stating the reason) and then proceeded to state that there was “not anywhere near short enough of space to justify it”

      It’s a pretty flat critique.

    56. Don — on 6th November, 2006 at 6:55 pm  

      Dave,

      Even sad fantasists are sometimes right.

    57. Jai — on 6th November, 2006 at 6:59 pm  

      Don, I am extremely eager to hear your thoughts on my own article (if you have any on that particular topic)…..

    58. Don — on 6th November, 2006 at 7:08 pm  

      Jai,

      I’ll pop over.

    59. bikhair aka taqiyyah — on 6th November, 2006 at 7:40 pm  

      I’d like to ask how does the Protestant Church set about containing Islam? Europe is a secular continent more or less right? How would it contain peoples deciscion to be Muslim or practice Islam?

      If the Protestant Church wants to contain Islam it can keep Muslims from being Muslim or prevent people from becoming Muslim and prevent them from practicing Islam. Who wants that task to go to any institution? This guy was recieving whisper from Shaitian. Nothing more nothing less. He isnt courageous, he isnt a hero, just a weak fool.

    60. Anas — on 6th November, 2006 at 8:12 pm  

      Is this the same Dave who boasted/fantasised about shooting other fighters in the back while they were praying?

    61. ZinZin — on 6th November, 2006 at 8:16 pm  

      Anas
      If you ignore dave he may go away.
      He is an attention seeking twat or a sign that care in the community does not work.

    62. Vikrant — on 6th November, 2006 at 8:17 pm  

      If you ignore dave he may go away.

      Zinzin it obviously didnt work with Bikhair.

    63. Anas — on 6th November, 2006 at 8:30 pm  

      Bring our boys back home I say.

    64. Clairwil — on 8th November, 2006 at 10:48 pm  

      Nyrone,
      you mad old stick. I had no idea you believed in an afterlife. Had I known it, would all have made sense. I’d have known my place and we could all dance through the streets like fools.

      When I hear about a death I always say ‘I’m sorry to hear that’ rather than the clipped ‘I’m sorry’. Whatever, it was only after I’d been through a few bereavements that I learned to relish any gesture of support however cliched, irrational or stupid.

      I think the problem such as it is, is that we just don’t get each other.

      P.S You keep saying you find me vacant as if you have uncovered a terrible scandal. My questions are as follows; when have I ever denied being vacant? and Why do you care?

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