Ahmadis slaughtered in Pakistan


by Rumbold
29th May, 2010 at 3:35 pm    

Over eighty Ahmadis were killed in Pakistan yesterday after extremists attacked two of their mosques. The Ahmadis are a Muslim sect which some Muslims consider to be unislamic (a theological position equivalent to that of Mormonism within Christianity). The sect originated in Pakistan but its adherents have long been persecuted there, both legally and socially:

Three of the attackers blew themselves up with suicide vests packed with explosives when police tried to enter the mosque, officials said.

Police were searching for at least two militants who managed to flee the scene.


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  1. sunny hundal

    Blog post:: Ahmadis slaughtered in Pakistan http://bit.ly/buMwg2


  2. Dil Nawaz

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: Ahmadis slaughtered in Pakistan http://bit.ly/buMwg2


  3. earwicga

    RT @sunny_hundal: Pickled Politics Post: Ahmadis slaughtered in Pakistan http://bit.ly/buMwg2


  4. Mehdi Hasan

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: Ahmadis slaughtered in Pakistan http://bit.ly/buMwg2


  5. Dil Nawaz

    RT @sunny_hundal: Blog post:: Ahmadis slaughtered in Pakistan http://bit.ly/buMwg2


  6. sunny hundal

    @DAaronovitch http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/8802 – thought you'd moved on from playing the 'will-you-condemnathon'. clearly not




  1. rizzo — on 29th May, 2010 at 4:11 pm  

    Please get your facts right. Ahmadis or Qadianis are universally regarded as bring outside the bounds of Islam. Their beliefs are fundamentally non-islamic as they do not believe in the finality of the prophet Muhammad pbuh . Secondly they did not originate in Pakistan, but rather in India.

  2. ~AF — on 29th May, 2010 at 4:25 pm  

    “Please get your facts right. Ahmadis or Qadianis are universally regarded as bring outside the bounds of Islam.”

    Erm – they are not “universally” placed outside the the bounds of Islam. Save by Islamist bigots… oh, wait.

    “Secondly they did not originate in Pakistan, but rather in India.”

    I don’t think that really matters. Would you be less exercised if they originated in Penge?

  3. Sunny — on 29th May, 2010 at 5:05 pm  

    This is really disgusting. Attacks on Ahmadis have been excused in Pakistan for decades because apparently ‘they’re not Muslim’.

    WTF does that have to do with this killing?

  4. Rumbold — on 29th May, 2010 at 6:15 pm  

    Rizzo:

    My facts are right. Who gets to choose who are Muslims? You? That is shirk.

  5. Noor — on 29th May, 2010 at 6:19 pm  

    1) Rizzo is right Ahmedis are universally considered to be non-Muslim by other Muslims (Sunni AND Shia) since they believe in a prophet after the Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him). To believe that Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) was God`s last prophet is an integral part of Muslim belief, like believing God is one.

    If we considered Qadianis Muslims why not Bahais or Sikhs who believe the same ?

    2) This doesnt excuse attacks on them.

  6. Noor — on 29th May, 2010 at 6:25 pm  

    In Pakistan Ahmedis were officially declared non-Muslim during the rule of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. He was hardly an
    “Islamist“

  7. Noor — on 29th May, 2010 at 6:29 pm  

    Rumbold

    “My facts are right. Who gets to choose who are Muslims? You? That is shirk.“

    Oh dear. The Prophet said “my ummah will never gather on dalalah (error)“ There is consensus that Qadianis are not Muslims from all the ulema of Islam.

    In many circumstances in this world those in authority necessarily have to make decision over who is Muslim -for example in marriage or allowing people to go on Hajj. The ultimate decision is of course with Allah in the next world.

  8. earwicga — on 29th May, 2010 at 6:29 pm  

    There is a good post on Pak Tea House that is really worth a read: Why waste your time with me, after all I am an Ahmadi.

    A little more information is here and here It’s worth noting that Pakistan’s Constitution (Eighteenth Amendment) Act, 2010 officialy barred ‘non-muslims’ from the office of Prime Minister.

  9. Rumbold — on 29th May, 2010 at 6:44 pm  

    Noor:

    Well, if you feel you can judge on Allah’s behalf then we will just have to wait until the day of judgement to see what your left angel has to say.

  10. damon — on 29th May, 2010 at 6:55 pm  

    Terrible shame. There’s a big Ahmadi community in south west London and they couldn’t be nicer people.

  11. rizzo — on 29th May, 2010 at 7:12 pm  

    Dear Rumbold.

    Certain things are fundamental to be considered being within the bounds of Islam, and you should know this so stop spreading mischief.

    E.g. Can a person be a Muslim. just because they claim so? What if don’t believe in one God? What if they don’t consider Muhammad to be the last prophet? What if they don’t believe in the Quran etc etc….can a person be both Christian and Muslim at the same time?
    The answer is an emphatic no.

    There is no obligation to be a Muslim, there is no compulsion to become a Muslim, but if one claims to be a Muslim then it is imperative to believe in the basic tenets of Islam.

    Lastly I categorically condem the murder of innocents anywhere in the world.

  12. sayed — on 29th May, 2010 at 8:56 pm  

    Look a few points;

    1. They’re not Muslim, because they don’t follow Islam. They’re as Muslim as I am jewish. That is a fact.

    2. Who gives a fuck? Over 70 people were gunned down. That should be of greater concern.

  13. Noor — on 29th May, 2010 at 11:19 pm  

    rizzo
    “There is no obligation to be a Muslim, there is no compulsion to become a Muslim, but if one claims to be a Muslim then it is imperative to believe in the basic tenets of Islam.“

    Bingo. You expressed it perfectly.

  14. fucking sick and tired of God — on 30th May, 2010 at 12:06 am  

    Oh fuck the whole god bothering lot of you. Will you all please absent yourself to some part of the Antarctic ice shelf and leave everyone else in peace. Thanks. Go on, show me a non-Muslim penguin.

    Dullards.

  15. Sunny — on 30th May, 2010 at 1:24 am  

    I’m not surprised at all that people who’ve come here to cuss Ahmadis are more obsessed with whether they are called Muslims or not, rather than asking why the hell terrorists in Pakistan keep gunning them down.

    And the lack of response from UK Muslim orgs is very telling too.

  16. Nyrone — on 30th May, 2010 at 2:58 am  

    I agree Sunny, I come from an Ahmadi background and it’s pretty striking to see people debate the bullshit politics of what is and isn’t considered to be a Muslim instead of immediately condemnning these disgusting, outrageous attacks on ordinary people during friday prayers.

    Proof, if ever you needed it, that people prefer to sit around debating ideology and Minutiae rather than call a spade a spade and state and clearly state that this was mass-murder on the worst scale, and there was NO justification for this carnage AT ALL.

    The Government of Pakistan should be ashamed too, they’ve slowly let this happen, and the Pakistani Media have acted like cowards too.

  17. douglas clark — on 30th May, 2010 at 7:54 am  

    The usual human reaction of immediate and primary sympathy for the dead and the grieving is utterly lacking in some of the early posts on this thread. What an outrageous first response.

    These people have lost their moral compass, if, indeed they ever had one.

  18. Arif — on 30th May, 2010 at 10:26 pm  

    I don’t make a habit of agreeing with Jinnah, but I do agree with his statement asking what right he has to call someone a non-Muslim if they consider themselves to be Muslim.

    Ahmadis accept the five pillars, and as a community their behaviour seems to measure reasonably well compared to other sects who consider themselves Muslim. Certainly they do not make war on other Muslims, which is something their detractors could learn from.

    The main point of contention is the status of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed and the claims that he is the mahdi, messiah, buddha and krishna – which are not accepted by other Muslims, any more than these claims are accepted by mainstream Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus. On the other hand their practices and other beliefs are recognisably within Islamic tradition, so defining their status relative to our own identities is more of an issue for Muslims than for other religions.

    As rumbold says, God can judge in the afterlife. Including whether “who can call himself a Muslim” is a more important question than, say, “who is conscious of God and does good”.

    In the meantime I think the Islamic response to the atrocity, from my point of view, is to offer protection and condolences to local Ahmedi mosques, while trying to bring the perpetrators to justice. Especially as the whole Muslim identity question seems likely to have been misused by the perpetrators to justify their behaviour.

  19. Kulvinder — on 31st May, 2010 at 12:48 pm  

    I’m not surprised at all that people who’ve come here to cuss Ahmadis are more obsessed with whether they are called Muslims or not, rather than asking why the hell terrorists in Pakistan keep gunning them down.

    And the lack of response from UK Muslim orgs is very telling too.

    qft

    I’d also say theres a tendency to blame the victims in the automatic and sneery statements about them ‘not being muslims’; the uncomfortable underlying impression given seems to be ‘ah well, only ahmadis, they had it coming

  20. Hasan — on 31st May, 2010 at 2:30 pm  
  21. Hasan — on 31st May, 2010 at 2:31 pm  

    Culpable role of PML-N in Lahore’s Ahmadi massacre

    http://criticalppp.org/lubp/archives/11797

    Scroll down to see the government official hoarding spewing hate…

  22. Golam Murtaza — on 31st May, 2010 at 4:29 pm  

    Condolences to the relatives and family of the dead. I hope the people responsible for the massacre got to feel like real men while mowing down unarmed civilians.

  23. Aramathea — on 31st May, 2010 at 10:34 pm  

    The Islamic Republic of Pakistan of the Talibans, by the Talibans, for the Talibans. Good job, Maudoodies. Are you happy?

  24. Nick Malone — on 31st May, 2010 at 10:43 pm  

    “I’d also say theres a tendency to blame the victims in the automatic and sneery statements about them ‘not being muslims’; the uncomfortable underlying impression given seems to be ‘ah well, only ahmadis, they had it coming‘”

    Agreed. It shouldn’t matter what religion they are or what the religion of their killers. It was murder. To try and treat it as to any extent a theological matter is disgusting.

  25. Hasan — on 1st June, 2010 at 3:29 am  

    Another one down;

    LAHORE: An Ahmadi man was stabbed to death by an enraged man in Pakistan on Monday, just days after gun, grenade and suicide attacks targeting the religious minority killed more than 80 people, police said.

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/provinces/04-ahmadi-stabbed-narowal-qs-07

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