Just another Muslim story


by Sunny
24th October, 2006 at 9:30 am    

Remember this story in the Sun which featured outraged journalists telling us how Muslims yobs wrecked a house “to stop four brave soldiers” moving in after returning from Afghanistan? They even got Tory MP Philip Davies to say of the attack: “This is outrageous. If there’s anybody who should f*** off it’s the Muslims who are doing this kind of thing. Police should pull out the stops to track down these vile thugs.” Very nice of him…

Well it turns out the story was rubbish. A pile of crap. Made up. Concocted out of thin air. Ministry of Truth points to this article quoted Thames Valley police as saying:

Inquiries carried out to date conclude that there is no evidence to suggest that this was racially motivated. The MoD has also informed me that Combermere Barracks did not receive any threatening calls from Muslims or people claiming to be Muslims in relation to this incident.

The Sun article quotes premiere rent-a-gob Sir Andrew Green, director of Migrationwatch UK, as saying: “Incidents like this are absolutely inexcusable and seriously undermine efforts by all sides to achieve integration. Those who choose to live in this country owe a loyalty to Britain.

He should have said: “Rubbish stories like this are absolutely inexcusable and seriously undermine efforts by all sides to achieve integration. Those who choose to write articles for a living owe a loyalty to good journalism.

Complain to the PCC and demand a retraction. And put Unity on your blogroll dammit.
Update: Clive Davis and Obsolete also covered this recently.


              Post to del.icio.us


Filed in: Media






72 Comments below   |  

Reactions: Twitter, blogs
  1. Serious Golmal » Polar Reversal 2006

    [...] UPDATE: Scrub that. What was I thinking? [...]


  2. Indigo Jo Blogs

    Windsor arson “not racially motivated”…

    Via Pickled Politics, it’s been revealed that Thames Valley police believe that the arson attack on a house that was due to be inhabited by injured Iraq veterans, widely reported to have been carried out by local delinquent Muslim youths,……




  1. Clive Davis — on 24th October, 2006 at 10:04 am  

    Sunny,
    I had a post on that apparent non-story a couple of weeks ago.
    http://clivedavis.blogs.com/clive/2006/10/windsor_jihadis.html
    Definitely a curious tale. Quite a few blogs reproduced the original item from the Sun, but I haven’t seen any corrections so far.

  2. Unity — on 24th October, 2006 at 10:12 am  

    Clive.

    I e-mailed the lead reporter on the story, Julie Moult, and enquired as to whether The Sun would be forthcoming with a retraction.

    That was last week, and no reply s yet.

    I’m going to give it another day or two and then see if Rebekah Wade has anything to say on the subject.

  3. Leon — on 24th October, 2006 at 10:14 am  

    And put Unity on your blogroll dammit.

    Did that some time ago.;)

  4. Yakoub/Julaybib — on 24th October, 2006 at 10:25 am  

    Well, I’m not as clever a Leon, but Unity is a feed on my Blogbridge as from five minutes ago. We should also show unity with a certain well known Musi blogger, and stop referring to the aforementioned newspaper as The Sun. It’s THE SCUM!

    Wasalaam

    TMA

  5. Leon — on 24th October, 2006 at 10:29 am  

    Agree with Yakoub/Julaybib about the correct naming of that paper.

  6. Vladimir — on 24th October, 2006 at 10:46 am  

    The filthy scum! And the ‘head-hiter’ (editor, Ross Kemp) too. It’s not as bad as an International Law studnet thinking that the Daily Mail, is a news paper though.

  7. Sid — on 24th October, 2006 at 11:21 am  

    I’m always surprised by and proud of the excellence of people in this country. Some turds always rise to the top though. MP Phillip Davis, Sir Andrew Green and the Sun editorial team are obvious candidates.

  8. waxon — on 24th October, 2006 at 12:19 pm  

    Cool another media stroke government conspiracy to tarnish Muslims.

    Conpiracy: An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.

    (fits quite well)

    What other big lies have we had putting the blame on the Muslim community. 9-11, 7-7, Ricin Plot, Old Trafford FC plot, Trans=atlantic bomb plot and countless others…

  9. Jagdeep — on 24th October, 2006 at 12:58 pm  

    waxon, this is an example of disgraceful and irresponsible journalism that verges on incitement, but you lose your credibility when you include 7-7 and 9-11 in your roster of plots…

  10. Kismet Hardy — on 24th October, 2006 at 1:25 pm  

    I remember Ronnie Barker on the Wogan show years ago responding to a question about whether a story in the newspaper about him was true, and he said: ‘If you’re talking about the story in The Sun, I’m afraid you’re complelty wrong. It’s not a newspaper. It’s a comic.’

  11. sonia — on 24th October, 2006 at 1:34 pm  

    ha ha we’re not politicians we don’t need to worry about ‘credibility’ :-)

    dunno why politicians think they have any..

    kismet :-)

  12. Kismet Hardy — on 24th October, 2006 at 1:36 pm  

    ( Hey Jagdeep, I saw this and thought of you: http://www.nineeleven.co.uk )

  13. sonia — on 24th October, 2006 at 1:45 pm  

    something no doubt to make everyone happy ( going off thread again) john reid and his restricting romanians and bulgarians from working here when those countries join the EU. now i wonder if romania and bulgaria will do something similar in return? restricting british citizens i mean. just think if they did – out flies the ambitions of whoever might want to make money out of property/ski spots and what have you..

  14. Kismet Hardy — on 24th October, 2006 at 1:52 pm  

    ‘now i wonder if romania and bulgaria will do something similar in return?’

    This is The Sun thread Sonia. Kindly refer to them as Dirty, thieving gypsy pikeys.

  15. Jagdeep — on 24th October, 2006 at 1:52 pm  

    I’m so touched that you actually think of me outside the context of PP Kismet!

    (insert joke about accidentally visiting dwarf porn website and thinking of KH)

  16. Refresh — on 24th October, 2006 at 1:55 pm  

    Idiotorial Team run by the Idiot-in-Chief – is the correct term for these stormtroopers and their leader.

    George Galloway is a must listen on Talksport – perfect antitode.

  17. Kismet Hardy — on 24th October, 2006 at 2:00 pm  

    Jagdeep, there’s life outside PP? You crazy man. Next you’ll be telling me there’s life on other planets and they’re evil and work for news international…

    Refresh, isn’t it depressing that The Sun & The Mail are the two best selling ‘newspapers’ in Britain?

    Are they making all their readers stupid or is it the stupid readers making them do what they do?

  18. Jagdeep — on 24th October, 2006 at 2:04 pm  

    actually sonia, i think that placing events like 7-7 and 9-11 in the same category as stories like this as waxon does, gives credibility to those who dismiss objections to scaremongering stories as being conspiracy theorising loons – those are real terrorist crimes carried out by Muslim extremists, not figments of a tabloid editors scaremongering imagination as this was…..

  19. Kismet Hardy — on 24th October, 2006 at 2:11 pm  

    I still think The Express is the worst offender. The worst headline of this year has to be: Oh no, not again, when that plane went into the new york apartment and everyone knew it had bugger all to do with terrorism.

    The licence they’ve all got now is scary. Only today that fat git columnist on The Sun was making Dalek ‘jokes’ about veil wearers.

    It won’t be long before either The Sun or more likely Express get to have a front page bearing the headline: Fucking Muslims Are Going to Blow Everyone of You Up Today (allegedly)

  20. Uncleji the truth will out — on 24th October, 2006 at 5:00 pm  

    “The Sun article quotes premiere rent-a-gob Sir Andrew Green, director of Migrationwatch UK, as saying”

    Why is that in much of media migration watch gets a credit as ” a independent think tank”. It’s its a anti migration pressure group !

    I think a sting along the lines of Chris Morris’s infamous “Cake” setup is needed to show them for the tossers they are….

  21. sonia — on 24th October, 2006 at 5:36 pm  

    21. uncleji = :-) the media is highly unreliable – they like to make their sources seem as if they have some academic reputation – hence they’ll refer to all sorts of people as a think tank.

    personally i find the terms ‘migration’/immigration hilarious in the context they’re often used. some fellow comes along for a jaunt and a job and they’re ‘migrants’ – some year off person goes off to some other place for a jaunt and a job – do we consider them emigres? :-) such obsession with traditional forms of movement. i guess its the people who stay firmly put who don’t like it when the rest of us are off having jaunts…

  22. sonia — on 24th October, 2006 at 5:39 pm  

    18. good question KH – bit of a chicken and egg? they cook up the headlines so they can sell more..write rubbish stuff cos that’s what they think the public ( or their section anyway) wants to hear – go for the lowest common denominator that certainly exists!

    heck given thats what they want – to attract attention – can’t really blame ‘em for coming up with such headlines. personally they make me laugh.

  23. Amir — on 24th October, 2006 at 9:19 pm  

    Kismet Hardy, 8)

    ‘I still think The Express is the worst offender.’

    I empathise with your frustration. It’s not nice to see slipshod journalism and emotive sloganeering being splashed all over the glossy pages of mind-numbing tabloids (especially if the accusations prove unfounded). Even their advertisements are exempt from the requirement to be decent, honest and truthful. However, it must be borne in mind, also, that an unregulated press is a force for good in our society. No, the media are not perfect or faultless (let alone “objective”), but their faults are the inevitable consequence of their robust freedom in the trade of journalism. STILL, it would take a very brave man to deny that the British tabloids are babyish and hysterical.

    On the other hand, it is important to put a story in its proper context. Up until recently, there’s been a micro-totalitarian climate within Western nations that has prevented its people from discussing textual problems in Islamic scripture or the way it develops in its interaction with a Western culture. The problem with not speaking our mind is that if we do not speak our minds there is likely to be an explosion. We “exploded” after Jack Straw’s article on the veil. The Dutch “exploded” after the death of Theo Van Gogh. Pro-multiculturalists like Sunny (in my opinion) have contributed to this pent-up frustration with their relativistic spiel about all faiths and cultures being “interchangeable”, wanting the same material things, sharing warm feelings toward one another, united by class consciousness far more than they could ever be divided by race or faith. Yada, yada, yada.

    Believe it or not, I socialize with many Pakistani men in their early 20s. I have noticed that their behavior is not that of religious persons. They are not interested in hallal meat, they are not interested in praying five times a day, they are not interested in keeping Ramadan (except as a reason not to go to court), but they are very interested in preventing their sisters from going out with English boys. Furthermore, if you go into the center of Blackburn or Bradford or Manchester you will see young Moslem men partaking in what I would say are pretty ugly features of popular culture (boozing, cruising, brawling, pill-popping, happy-slapping), but you won’t see any Moslem women…? Hmmmm.

    Paradoxically however, they are increasingly assertive about their identity and the interests of “the Ummah”. It is this, not poverty or lack of opportunity, which sows the seeds of mutual hostility. I continue to meet more and more Pakistani men in my neighborhood – intelligent and impeccably well-mannered – who harbor abominable attitudes to Jews, gays, women and contemporary debates on free speech, inquiry, and expression. This is not just a coincidence. Polling data is instructive to this ideological divide. And yes: it worries me. It worries a lot of people. Let me quote a brief excerpt from an essay by the Iranian author Amir Taheri [And no: before you ask, I don’t agree with Taheri’s interventionist stance on foreign policy; the Iraq war, in hindsight, was a colossal mistake of unmitigated proportions.]:

    Today the visible Islam, the loudest Islam, is a political movement masquerading as a faith. Many mosques in this country have been transformed into political clubs where Kashmir, Iraq and Palestine and the misdeeds of Anglo-Saxon imperialism have replaced issues of religious faith as the principal theme.

    Before any of you lecture me about a so-called “media conspiracy” against Islam, let me remind you of two recent events – the 2006 Ramadan riots and anti-Catholic “protests” in London – which did NOT get a fair hearing on the Beeb or the tabloids. Of course, I agree with Kismet’s legitimate concerns about anti-Moslem shit-stirring, but I am equally contemptuous towards those who imply that Islam is getting a “raw deal”. Compared to my own faith, which is routinely denounced by “brave” journalists or facetiously lampooned by third-rate comedians, Islam is sheltered from a lot of piss-taking.

    To be honest, I’m frigging sick and tired of having to write about Islam (ad nauseam). The only reason I do it is because there’s so much shit coming off of Sunny’s keyboard. I can’t stand it. For a change, let’s have a philosophical discussion about something else or try to tackle a problem in a sober and civilized manner – using empirical data and historical analysis, instead of the old ad hominem two-and-fro. Constant references to Melanie Philips, Rod Liddle, or Michelle Malkin just get on my tits. I can’t be arse’d.

    Or, alternatively, I’d like to read a piece by Kismet Hardy. Something smart and witty and sexually mischievous. Go for it. Please do. :-)

    Amir

  24. Sunny — on 24th October, 2006 at 9:46 pm  

    Amir in short:

    Yes Express and Sun are bastards but! We are under attack! And I have Pakistani/Muslim friends just in case you think I have ulterior motives! And Sunny is the devil incarnate!

  25. raz — on 24th October, 2006 at 10:02 pm  

    “they are very interested in preventing their sisters from going out with English boys”

    Ah, the source of Amir’s Muslim-related angst bares itself once again. If only he had met raz when he was in Manchester, how different Amir’s prospects of scoring some hot Pakistani booty might have been….. :)

  26. Anas — on 24th October, 2006 at 11:13 pm  

    Up until recently, there’s been a micro-totalitarian climate within Western nations that has prevented its people from discussing textual problems in Islamic scripture or the way it develops in its interaction with a Western culture.

    Islamic extremism hasn’t really been a problem for that long in the UK, only since about the 80s. So it’s not like debate has been tightly reined in for decades by the thought police.

    Now, the difficulty with a lot of current debate is that it’s founded on ignorance and prejudice; in many cases — though by no means all — anger against and criticism of Muslims is really a proxy for the irrational fear of the other.

    Today the visible Islam, the loudest Islam, is a political movement masquerading as a faith. Many mosques in this country have been transformed into political clubs where Kashmir, Iraq and Palestine and the misdeeds of Anglo-Saxon imperialism have replaced issues of religious faith as the principal theme.

    It’s exactly this Islam that’s getting all the attention in the Media and the oxygen of publicity or which is taken to be representative of all Islam. Building yourself up into a fury over these extreme fringes and always thinking the worst (even when not warranted) is something you obviously get off on Amir. That leaves the mainstream in Muslim and non-Muslim communities to get on with the real work of building bridges and reducing misunderstanding, I don’t think your contribution in that process will be missed.

    As for the Ramadan Riots story. Firstly it’s a French domestic story, so no surprise it wasn’t given wide coverage. Secondly it seems like the story’s more about criminal gangs. The non-Secular view of the conflagration that the French police were up against an Islamic Intifada was expressed by a figure described as hardline. It was talk that the head of the largest French police union dismissed. Thirdly, in the French case, housing for immigrant workers was specifically built at a remove from urban centres by the French themselves — I guess they didn’t want their culture diluted by the mass influx of immigrants, even though they were desperate for a fresh intake of labour. It wasn’t that the ‘Moslem’ community declared themselves serparate.

    The anti-Catholic protests were covered in the BBC and in other media outlets, and in my opinion they shouldn’t have got much coverage because they were the work of a small provocative unrepresentative minority. The type of people you hate and yet seem to be obsessed with at the expense of the rest of the Islamic community.

    You have Pakistani friends — or at least socialise with Pakistanis, right? Do you tell them about the kinds of things you write in here?

    BTW. If you dislike Sunny so much why are you such a regular on this site? He must be doing something right.

  27. Amir — on 25th October, 2006 at 3:38 am  

    No – that’s it.

    I’m not going to talk about Islam for a while.

    This shit is getting very, very creepy. :-(

    Going on and on about Moslems (or Israel/Palestine) is just not healthy – it’s not right. It’s wrong. Nor do I approve of all the self-pitiful tripe of being “under attack”.

    There’s a problem – yes. But there are problems in every society and in every epoch. Can we please have a thread about Africa or Latin America or (even) Christianity in India? I’d love that. Or Christianity in Pakistan or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh, or somethin’. What about Jainism? Or the role of sexual imagery in the Hindu faith? Or how Sikhs are just like Jewish Aunties? I dunno. All this shit about Moslems is starting to freak me out big style. I’m sure there are many, many Moslem readers of PP who’re getting really, really, pissed off. Sorry. :-(

  28. Amir — on 25th October, 2006 at 3:42 am  

    NO Anas, I don’t hate Sunny. For fucks sakes. Stop putting words into my mouth.

    He’s not the Devil incarnate. He’s Kim Il-Sunny II of North Sunnystan.

  29. Vikrant — on 25th October, 2006 at 9:50 am  

    Christianity in India? I’d love that.

    Seriously, you’ll only end up opening another can of worms there…

  30. 5cc — on 25th October, 2006 at 10:46 am  

    Anyone complaining to the PCC about this should remember to include Melanie Phillips’ column in the Daily Mail of 16 October, where she repeats the thing as true.

    Sort of connected to this is that the Mail reported on 22 October that one of the 7/7 bombers, Shehzad Tanweer attended the seminary at the Markazi mosque, sayingit had been reported many times. It hasn’t as far as I can find. I can only find one mention, in the Times from one day before. There are loads of reports all over the place about him attending a seminary n Pakistan called the Markaz-e-Dawa seminary. Markazi – Markaz-e – has there been a mistake?

    More at my own crappy blog.

  31. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 1:50 pm  

    Amir, since the majority of British Asians are Muslim it stands to reason a lot of the stories and discussion on this site will in some way involve them. That is notwithstanding the press’s current obsession with that current community at the mo — arguably worthy of attention on a site dedicated to asians and the media.

    On the other hand during something like the Bezhti controversy it would have been reasonable to expect an emphasis on the Sikh community in here.

    However I am glad you are going to refrain from commenting on issues regarding Muslims. So here’s a story to start you off with your thread on Christianity in India (from Thabet’s under progress site) about Christian terrorists:

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2177477.cms

    http://www.dailyherald.com/special/passagefromindia/nagaland.asp

    BTW, I didn’t say you hated sunny, I said you seemed to dislike him, a viable deduction given what you’ve said in this and previous posts.

  32. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 1:53 pm  

    correction:

    However I am glad you are going to refrain from commenting on issues regarding Muslims. So here’s a story to start *you off on your thread on Christianity in India with* (from Thabet’s under progress site) about Christian terrorists:

    viable deduction given what you’ve said in this and previous *threads*.

  33. Chairwoman — on 25th October, 2006 at 1:56 pm  

    Anas – Your sense of irony and fun definately needs an airing. It is quite obvious that Amir enjoys goading Sunny and vice versa. It’s a friendly, companionable sort of disagreement. For G-d’s sake, if not your own, lighten up. There’s plenty of time to be earnest.

  34. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 1:59 pm  

    I don’t do irony and fun, chairwoman — not while Israel is still illegally occupying Palestine.

  35. Chairwoman — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:03 pm  

    Anas – You are incorrigible.

  36. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:04 pm  

    ;)

  37. Leon — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:04 pm  

    I’m with Chairwoman on this, Anas that was uncalled for.

  38. Sid — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:05 pm  

    Anas, like your hair-shirt dude.

  39. Sid — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:07 pm  

    That last comment was disapproving of Anas’ remark, should clarifications be necessary.

  40. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:10 pm  

    Are you guys serious or not, that last statement was a joke?

  41. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:11 pm  

    This is why I don’t try and joke on internet forums. God it’s like wearing a veil, no one can see your expression when you’re typing stuff out.

  42. Leon — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:14 pm  

    Comment withdawn, I posted it before I saw your winky smiley…

  43. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:16 pm  

    *suitably chastened vows never to make another attempt at humour on PP*

  44. Sid — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:19 pm  

    only pulling your suzanne dandoo, Anas.

  45. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:21 pm  

    Yeah, you say that now Sid….:)

  46. Chairwoman — on 25th October, 2006 at 2:34 pm  

    Don’t say that Anas :-)

  47. Electro — on 25th October, 2006 at 3:11 pm  

    I think Amir’s posting is spot on. In fact, I’ve met some secular, lapsed Muslims whose comments dovetail neatly with Amir’s observations.

    I also feel that Sunny agrees with many of the ideas Amir has expressed, but just won’t say so out of fears concerning his career; hence his knee-jerk reductionist response that amounts to covering ones ears and screaming; “I can’t hear you”!

    Such an attitude is justifiable on a certain level, though. Recent years have demonstrated just what happens to members of visible minorities who do an about-face and who refuse to toe the line on multiculturalism.

    They are ostracised, marginalised and sometimes even threatened. If they are members of political parties or even members of parliament, they are sometimes booted out.

    Members of visible minorities who threaten “whitey’s” social peace or cheap labour reserves are simply classed “upity” and then become personna non-grata.

    Some are more or less forced to move.

    “Upity” and “personna non-grata” won’t pay the bills, but engaging in and peddling *soft* racism does.

    Sunny’s writings are usually, though not always, part and parcel of the cultural superstructure that masks, justifies and softens the vicious exploitation taking place *down below*, in the economic substructures.

    For god’s sakes! Think of the bottom line!

  48. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 3:19 pm  

    I think Amir’s posting is spot on.

    Oh no, not another one.

  49. Electro — on 25th October, 2006 at 3:52 pm  

    Oh no, not another one.

    Be very afraid, Anas! Indivudals who mount cogent and coherent arguments and who use their brains to think things through are frightening!

    They are the enemies of the *Divine*

    So quick! Take a bromide!

    Stop, drop and pray….

  50. Electro — on 25th October, 2006 at 4:17 pm  

    It is telling, as well, that even though Sunny’s posting concerns sloppy and inaccurate journalism, he nontheless allows his work to be cross-posted at a “news” website ( shan’t say which one!) set up for the sole purpose of deceit.

    A website dedicated to little more than twisting and deforming the unpopular statements of various individuals.

    A website of the whitey, by the whitey, for the whitey.

    A website, alas, placing a particular emphasis on squelching the uncomfortable, embarassing and even dangerous ideas of “upity” brown Muslim women.

    Principles, you say?

    Journalistic principles would dictate that the cross-posting be removed.

  51. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 4:29 pm  

    Be very afraid, Anas! Indivudals who mount cogent and coherent arguments and who use their brains to think things through are frightening

    Lucky it’s just you then, innit.

  52. sonia — on 25th October, 2006 at 5:52 pm  

    yeah electro and amir – it’s another form of patriotism – people end up feeling they gotta defend their ‘group’ even if they don’t particularly believe in the principles behind the original setting up the group.

  53. Electro — on 25th October, 2006 at 7:24 pm  

    yeah electro and amir – it’s another form of patriotism – people end up feeling they gotta defend their ‘group’ even if they don’t particularly believe in the principles behind the original setting up the group.

    So you feel that love of country is a bad thing, Sonia?

    As for the principles that underly society, the principles that give it coherence and shape? I firmly believe in ‘em.

    You see, Sonia, when those principles are abandonned, then the society they once supported and to which they gave structure and meaning will be abandonned as well.

    “Amir” loves his society and his traditions ( a good thing) and yet you reproach him for having these sentiments.

    It’s also curious that no one here has addressed (dared to address?) the very important issues he raises.

    “Anas”, is befuddled and confused; his/her only response to “Amir’s” well constructed arguments is to mumble something about Christian terrorists…….in India no less.

    Think of how absurd that is, Sonia, seeings the recent train bombings in Mumbai that killed hundreds and injured countless others….including many Muslims.

    Do you or does anyone else here seriously think that Mumbai commuters, no matter their religion, are worried about Christian terrorists?

    Should India set up a parliamentary task force to deal with the “danger” of Christian terrorist attacks, or should they establish one to deal with the bombings by you-know-who?

    Better yet, perhaps back in the 70s and 80s when Britian was in the midst of multiple IRA attacks the parliamentarians should have set up a task force………………on Hindu fundamentalists.

    And people are still waiting for Sunny to do something about that nasty little cross-posting to “islamophobia” watch.

    Rest assured that had a BNP site linked to him, he’d have taken the bull by the horns long ago and demanded the link be removed.

    It is inconceivable that a self-described progressive and “principled” journalist would allow his material to be displayed at a site devoted to distortions and deceit, a “news” outlet run by some ‘oily’, Jew-hating skid-mark that has consistently denigrated and debased *upity* brown Muslim women, women who have had the gumption and the guts to express themselves both eloquently and elegantly.

  54. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 8:26 pm  

    Come back Amir, all is forgiven. Your stand-in is even more deluded.

  55. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 8:44 pm  

    FYI “”Electro”", there’s nothing inherently problematic about someone loving his/her society or traditions.

    It’s only when that attitude is conjoined with a refusal to accept the validity of other traditions and an unwillingness to countenance change that it becomes an impediment to societal cohesion.

  56. Electro — on 25th October, 2006 at 8:47 pm  

    “Anas”, the degree to which you find ideas and individuals threatening is the degree to which you engage in juvenile comments.

    Perhaps you’d like to display your attitude in the company of Sweden’s new Minister of Immigration.

    Think of it, with your intelligence you could make monkey noises and tell banana jokes.

  57. soru — on 25th October, 2006 at 8:57 pm  

    If you like Sweden so much, have you considered living there?

  58. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 9:04 pm  

    WTF’s sweden & its immigration minister got to with anythng?

  59. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 9:07 pm  

    Ah, this explains it all (from Wikipedia http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyamko_Sabuni):

    Nyamko Sabuni, född 31 mars 1969 i Burundi, folkpartistisk politiker, pr-konsult, riksdagsledamot 2002-2006, medlem av partistyrelsen sedan våren 2004, integrations- och jämställdhetsminister sedan 2006.

    Fadern är politisk flykting från Kongo-Kinshasa, och Nyamko Sabuni föddes i exil i Burundi. Familjen är muslimsk. Hon kom till Sverige 1981, tolv år gammal, och växte upp i Kungsängen. Hon har studerat juridik, migrationspolitik och information och kommunikation.

    2002 valdes Nyamko Sabuni in i riksdagen och tog tjänstledigt från kommunikationsbyrån Geelmuyden.Kiese. Hon har varit egen företagare inom friskvård, med två anställda.

    Som politiker har Sabuni arbetat mycket med frågor som rör jämlikhet och jämställdhet. 2006 utkom hon med boken Flickorna vi sviker, om hederskulturer och brott mot utlandsfödda kvinnor. Av hennes mest uppmärksammade utspel kan nämnas obligatoriska gynekolog-kontroller på alla flickor för att komma åt problemet med könsstympning samt slöjförbud i skolan [1]. Sabuni har också profilerat sig som en av de mest kritiska inom Folkpartiet till religiösa friskolor.

    Sabuni förlorade sin riksdagsplats i valet 2006, men utsågs kort därefter (den 6 oktober 2006) till integrations- och jämställdhetsminister i regeringen Reinfeldt. Även konsumentfrågor ligger inom hennes ansvarsområde.

  60. Chairwoman — on 25th October, 2006 at 9:49 pm  

    Anas – Thanks for pointing that out.

  61. Electro — on 25th October, 2006 at 10:19 pm  

    Sweden’s immigration has a great deal to do with this debate.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2415525,00.html.

    We’re talking about the same individual, Anas, who was trashed and slandered by “islamophobia-watch”, the same rancid website Sunny allows to post links to his writings.

    So here’s the ten dollar question, Anas; do you or do you not agree with much of what Sweden’s new immigration minister has said and done recently?

    Or do you feel that her opinions are *islamophobic*?

    I ask these questions because this gal constitutes a litmus test for REAL progressive sentiments, and so she has a lot to do with the current debate.

    Her unpopular views separate the grain from the faux-moderate chaff.

    Which are you?

  62. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 10:37 pm  

    oh I didn’t notice Sunny covered this story on another thread.

  63. Anas — on 25th October, 2006 at 11:05 pm  

    We’re talking about the same individual, Anas, who was trashed and slandered by “islamophobia-watch”, the same rancid website Sunny allows to post links to his writings.

    I’d hardly say she was trashed and slandered. The commentary on the times article (the only reference I could find on her) on IW reads:

    Looks like Sweden has found its own Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Sabuni has already received the endorsement of Little Green Footballs and Dhimmi Watch.

    P.S. And Western Resistance

    The first sentence is fairly innocuous, and in fact rates as offensive only if you find AHA offensive. As for the rest, she’s either been endorsed by those sites or she hasn’t. It’s a claim that can fairly easily be checked out.

    BTW. I don’t really know IW so could you please substantiate your claims about jew-hating and the rest, pref. with quotes and links. Thanx


    So here’s the ten dollar question, Anas; do you or do you not agree with much of what Sweden’s new immigration minister has said and done recently?

    Or do you feel that her opinions are *islamophobic*?

    I ask these questions because this gal constitutes a litmus test for REAL progressive sentiments, and so she has a lot to do with the current debate.

    Her unpopular views separate the grain from the faux-moderate chaff.

    Which are you?

    You’ll call this a cop out, but I geniunely couldn’t say on the basis of one newspaper report. For a start, I don’t know what the situation is like for Muslims in Sweden or whether or not her comments are taking place in an atmosphere of general hostility towards the immigrant population. Important, because as we’ve seen over the past few weeks you cannot separate criticisms and comments by public figures from the context in which they occur. And with all politicians, it helps to know what the political landscape is like, in other words what kind of capital they’re getting out of making such statements. Although I’m glad you have such faith in politicians as to think they’d be capable of making statements they thought might be construed as unpopular (unless they’d given up chance of high office); her words may not be popular among Muslims but I’d wager they are fairly popular among the white majority.

    But from her words alone I wouldn’t say she’s islamaphobic — maybe misguided — but I wouldn’t really agree with her views either. She may not be islamaphobic herself but her words are probably being used by Islamophobes, but again I’d need to know more about the Swedish political scene to comment.

  64. Sahil — on 25th October, 2006 at 11:37 pm  

    Anas that could possibly be the most sensible thing I’ve ever seen you write :)

  65. Sahil — on 25th October, 2006 at 11:38 pm  

    I’ve just read my comment and it sounds patronising, but it’s not meant to be, my bad.

  66. Sunny — on 26th October, 2006 at 12:31 am  

    Sunny’s writings are usually, though not always, part and parcel of the cultural superstructure that masks, justifies and softens the vicious exploitation taking place *down below*, in the economic substructures.

    English…do you speak it?

    As for your other rantings… the BNP have actually linked to me in the past and even started a march in my honour.
    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/51

    See. Here you go Electro. Now please stop bothering me with your ad hominem attacks. they’re as boring as Amir’s.

  67. Clairwil — on 26th October, 2006 at 12:46 am  

    Bloody Hell,
    Electro is the poor man’s Amir. As you know I’m rather fond of Amir not because I agree with him but because he reminds me of a cat.

  68. Electro — on 26th October, 2006 at 2:25 am  

    Sunny’s writings are usually, though not always, part and parcel of the cultural superstructure that masks, justifies and softens the vicious exploitation taking place *down below*, in the economic substructures

    Translation: You’re a misguided dupe who shills for economic interests.

    The cog that spin-meisters *management’s* cheap-labour needs.

    Are you really so unaware and naive as to aid the very economic forces you so often decry?

    And I DID mention that NOT all your writing amounted to only that.

    English…do you speak it?

    I speak several languages.

    And I still think you should be asking (protesting?) that a certain website to remove its link to your article. If you choose not to, then reflect, silly thing, on how such an unwelcome association may look in a few years time.

    BNP links can be worn as a badge of anti-racism honour. They make you appear heoric. Links to “Islamophobiawatch” do no such thing; you come out sullied.

  69. Sunny — on 26th October, 2006 at 2:53 am  

    If you choose not to, then reflect, silly thing, on how such an unwelcome association may look in a few years time.

    When I need tips on how I should present myself from you Electro, I’ll ask. You can be assured of that. Now is most definitely not that time.

  70. Endie — on 7th November, 2006 at 9:39 pm  

    waxon says:
    “What other big lies have we had putting the blame on the Muslim community. 9-11, 7-7, Ricin Plot, Old Trafford FC plot, Trans=atlantic bomb plot and countless others…”

    Um, 9-11 wasn’t done by muslims? And 7-7: that was a bunch of, erm, atheists, was it? Presumably Richard Reid, the shoe-bomber, was actually a member of the evangelical wing of the Church of England?

    I like you. You’re funny when you talk.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

Pickled Politics © Copyright 2005 - 2010. All rights reserved. Terms and conditions.
With the help of PHP and Wordpress.