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When my order was founded in the 1840s, not long after Catholic emancipation, people were so enraged to see nuns brazenly wearing their habits in the streets that they pelted them with rotten fruit and horse dung. Nuns had been banned from Britain since the Reformation; their return seemed to herald the resurgence of barbarism. Two hundred and fifty years after the gunpowder plot, Catholicism was still feared as unassimilable, irredeemably alien to the British ethos, fanatically opposed to democracy and freedom, and a fifth column allied to dangerous enemies abroad.
Today the veiled Muslim woman appears to symbolise the perceived Islamic threat, as nuns once epitomised the evils of popery. She seems a barbaric affront to hard-won values that are essential to our cultural identity: gender equality, freedom, transparency and openness. But in the Muslim world the veil has also acquired a new symbolism. If government ministers really want to debate the issue fruitfully, they must become familiar with the bitterly ironic history of veiling during the last hundred years.

I believe that Channel 4 are going to have a programme on this very issue at (I think) 8pm next Monday.

Re: the Aisha Azmi thing. I think she is acting like a hypocrite as she didn’t wear niqab during interview but then decided she had to wear it.

Re niqab wearing in general. What’s the big deal???? Weirdly I met up with a bunch of Muslims (I do that sometimes, being one myself) and the debate was split between women having the right to wear the veil if they so choose and how it was utterly unnecessary and abhorrent. Interestingly – all the women in the room (none of whom veil in any manner) thought it was a matter of personal choice and all the blokes (including my dad, husband and bro) had a really big problem with it.

The fact is that you can quote scriptures all you like, but according to some schools/interpretations of Islam the Niqab rocks and if you’re a nice Muslim lady you should wear one. If women from those schools of Islam choose to wear it then why the hell should they have to put up with crap and disrespect from people who don’t agree (El Cid for example). I might not like the way El Cid dresses but it doesn’t give me the right to go around insulting him.

As a western-clothes wearing, thoroughly non-veiling Muslim woman I don’t feel threatened by Niqab wearing women, so why do El-Cid, many English people as well as many Muslim men have such a problem with them?

Is it just that it’s an easy way to prove your ‘integrationist’ credentials without having to change your thinking or behaviour? Just have a go at ‘backward women’.

How many of these people actually know Niqab-wearing women? I know loads and for some reason they’re a bit like the nuns in Sister Act. Harmless, sweet, funny, feisty and lovely. And I absolutely defend their right to wear anything they like.

Having said that… I know that all my nice Niqab-wearing friends would not have a problem with adjusting their outfits if it meant that, for example, a class of 5-year-olds (who are hardly likely to be lusting after them anyway) couldn’t understand what they were saying. Or they had to spend the day working in a lab surrounded by vats of chemicals and bunsen burners. Or they decided to enter the tour de France (all the flowy bits could get stuck in the wheels). Etc.

Obviously when people like Shabina Begum and Aisha Azmi politicise the issue for no real reason then they are schmucks – doing exactly what the political Islamists and our spineless politicians want – distracting from the real arena where Muslim women are fighting for their rights (right to choose a partner, right to study, right to work, rights in marriage etc) to a symbolic issue where all the blame goes on the woman (she is subjugated/stupid/falsely concious/fundamentalist therefore wears a veil). Quite frankly, I’m bored with it and if I wasn’t so good-looking I would take up the veil myself just to prove a point.

Pathetic.

The country is in near political-meltdown. Labour follows its New Laboour instincts. A tory for a change delivers an analysis, which I happen to agree with, and Pickled Politics end up where it will always end up.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alastair-Campbell-Peter-Oborne/dp/1845130014

A very good read by Oborne about Ali Campbell and the background to Blair. Good insight into how much a emtpy headed fool Blair is in some ways…

Oh really. Forgetting that document demanding ‘global civility’ are we? We at least you’re no longer haranguing anyone with press releases.

to stand up and defend herself

Give it a rest Ismaeel. You and I both know the point of the niqab. You’re only trying to fool yourself by coming back with such statements.

I should emigrate now Sunny? It gets better and better, that used to be the standard nonsense we would hear from UKIP members and Kilroy Silk, but that’s fine keep digging ur own grave

“Then you accuse me of being a Wahabbi/Salafy, when i made clear from my second post on this issue above and on most posts i’ve ever made on this site that I am a Sunni and a follower of Sufism.”

Sunny isnt the only being contradictory now is he.

I’ve got a quesiton will you be making tasbih with the teeth of a dead goat your grandfather swore up and down belonged to a pious man?

I crack myself up.

Mirax – The whole point of a veil is to not draw attention to yourself. Given our teaching assistant is happy to go in front of the cameras and draw as much attention to herself as possible, she is doing it not for religion but political reasons. It is a typically Hizb ut-Tahrir way of thinking. They want tolerance for themselves but would not apply the same ideals to others.

This has nothing to do with race to be honest. If the woman was white I’d say the same. In fact I think Ismaeel should emigrate too. His plans to be the de-facto spokesperson for the Muslim community since the launch of MAC haven’t really worked according to plan. Maybe he’ll have a better time trying in Saudi.

Wouldn’t sentence#2 be condemned as xenophobic if a white person uttered it?

Sunny you say that whether the veil is compulsory or not is not an issue, then go on to say some Muslim scholar (unnamed) said it was unneccessary- contradiction me thinks.

It’s not a contradiction. The issue is irrelevant in the broader context of British society, while at the same time there are lots of scholars who say the niqab is not required. How exactly do these statements contradict each other?

then tells us we must all conform with the majority of our religious group despite the fact they don’t care to actually practice the religion. Another contradiction.

Again, you’re tying yourself in imaginary knots. I’ve never said we need to convert to Christianity. I believe in letting people do what they want providing they don’t hurt others. But there are limits, usually codified in laws and to a lesser extent implicitly in social etiquette, that govern society. I’m sure this isn’t too hard to understand.

Yes the scholar was irresponsible because there is a large body of scholarship which regards the niqab as obligatory and many women in this country follow that.

Irresponsible to you but why should I take your word for anything? All you do is declare anyone you disagree with as a sellout. That’s not an argument.

you want to homogenous it when it doesn’t suit your own particular political and social views.

Not really. I expect there is diversity of thought. You are the one accusing people of being sellouts and accusing scholars of being irresponsible. You’re the intolerant one.

The fact that there has been a large response is because the bigots in this country are gaining the courage to vocalise their bigotry by having it legitimised by mainstream politicians.

So you think most white people in this country are bigots? But I knew you thought that anyway.

The other ad hominem attacks are amusing and have little impact.

Sunny you say that whether the veil is compulsory or not is not an issue, then go on to say some Muslim scholar (unnamed) said it was unneccessary- contradiction me thinks.

Then you who keeps on spouting on about the need to respect diversity within religious and ethnic groups then tells us we must all conform with the majority of our religious group despite the fact they don’t care to actually practice the religion. Another contradiction.

Then you accuse me of being a Wahabbi/Salafy, when i made clear from my second post on this issue above and on most posts i’ve ever made on this site that I am a Sunni and a follower of Sufism.

Yes the scholar was irresponsible because there is a large body of scholarship which regards the niqab as obligatory and many women in this country follow that. There is much diversity and difference of opinion within Islam and again while you keep on harping on about diversity within religious groups, you want to homogenous it when it doesn’t suit your own particular political and social views.

As for the bomb comment, it was deliberatly provacative and inflammatory language and you know it. The fact that there has been a large response is because the bigots in this country are gaining the courage to vocalise their bigotry by having it legitimised by mainstream politicians.

The fact that you are defending all this to the hilt because of your ever apparant political loyalties shows your true nature- a hypocrite.

Why you would regard Hussan al-Turabi as a fundamentalist is beyound me. He is the Sudanese politician right? I hope I am getting the right Turabi right. In any event your best bet was to point out the fact that Shayhk Nasiruldeen Al Albani, the Salafis favorite scholar apparently agreed that the niqab was not a recommend act while other scholars of the “Saudi Salafis” believed that they were obligatory.

In any event this woman is going against the whole idea of the Niqab while bringing so much attention to herself. If it were me I wouldnt feel compelled to wear it before the children but if my employer were making an issue I would quit and not hear another word of it. Where is the modest in behavior?

no it wasn’t a bomb waiting to happen.

Given there has been such a huge response to media coverage by ordinary people (hence the two weeks of constant coverage), you’re trying to fool me and yourself.

including apparantly some Muslim scholars who should know better but clearly are looking for acceptance.

That is your answer to anyone who doesn’t agree with your beliefs – they must be “selling out”. Or maybe it’s you who deliberately wants to create a conflict.
You’re perfectly captured in this post on the ME blog ‘Aqoul.

but i can assure you that they will defend to the death their religion and their Prophet
No one said their religion was in danger of being wiped out. Most British Muslims just want to live an ordinary and nice life without creating a big fuss over everything. You know, pretty much like everyone else. It you and your rent-an-outraged-quote friends who get annoyed over everything.

desperate to be accepted by mainstream society

Again, that is your desperate answer to anyone who you do not agree with. We try and have a more intelligent conversation than that here. Maybe that’s why this place is too highbrow for you.