2) though i hold it is just as immoral to cordon smart people into countries into failing countries where their intellectual capital will go wasted because of a culture of nepotism, venality and corruption.

Well IMHO without enough smart, talented people you aren’t going to make a start on getting rid of nepotism, venality, and corruption; or at least you’re losing that sector of people whose existence in a country makes the transition from venality and corruption far more plausible.

Anyway, it’s kinda obvious that poor countries desperately suffer the loss educated people like doctors, nurses, engineers, scientists (I almost typed lawyers there!) even if these people have to work under desperate conditions.

Don’t understand your point re:India and China, since they seem to be very much exceptions and there are other countries in Asia aside from them. Anyway I wouldn’t exactly call China a poor country.

1) empirically the brain drain tends to hit africa much harder than india or china, so if you want to make this argument you have to apply it to african countries.

2) though i hold it is just as immoral to cordon smart people into countries into failing countries where their intellectual capital will go wasted because of a culture of nepotism, venality and corruption.

sonia, you can quibble with definitions all you like, but the united states had a 40 year period of reduced immigration between 1925 and 1965. social anomie which emerged from ‘diversity’ was palpably less of a problem in 1965 than in 1925.

i believe that western nations should cease allowing immigration aside from a small super-elite of scientists and scholars.

That kind of brain-drain from poor countries to the West seriously damages the potential for development in those countries and is therefore immoral.

Additionally, the West, with its ageing population and low birth rates will come more and more to rely on large influxes of immigrants, and we can’t afford just to cherry pick the elite from the incoming hordes.

So, unless Amir wants to live out his dotage in utter squalor and desperation in a country that can’t afford to support its large elderly population, he should welcome more immigration into this country, as well as an increase in teenage pregnancies.

and with the usual proviso – the obvious is not obvious until it is stated, so please forgive me for stating the obvious. This “protestant process” which has occured in many religions and in the minds of men and women over the years is not irreversable. On the contrary – it can be reversed and there is a historical precedent for it. So we ought to be aware and not take for granted these liberties we have from religion, if we so desire.

The Achaemenid and the Parthian Empires practised Zoroastrianism in various guises and allowed many forms of worship and they were mostly ‘protestant’ in nature, in the sense that one had a direct line to Ahura Mazda. The Sassanids usurped the Parthians and for the next 300 years Zoroastrianism entered a catholic phase in a sense that there was a single permittable form of zoroastrianism and this was enforced through a priestly class that gain benefit and power from their position. When the Arabs kicked in the door in the 7th century the Sassanid Empire was already a prison for Iranians and Islam had an easy time of gaining converts who shrugged off the opression of the Sassanids in the South West. Zoroastrians survived in the North East of Iran in their millions for a further 1000 years and further East beyond where they had been beyond Sassanid influence. The Parsis of India are in fact from Nishapur in the North East in what was then Parthia and they fled in the 10th century. They fled persecution by their fellow Iranians and not the Arabs, who had already been repulsed in the previous century. Upto now the Parsi version of Zoroastrianism has been pretty protestant in its moral compass. But even that is changing as the community is declining and many Parsis are handing over the tiller of their community for priests to steer. For a religion that puts freewill at its heart to hand it over control to priest – Madness – and I fear a terminal tail spin into the ground.

Don’t say we are not warned, just look at the article on Faith schools. It is begining here again. We are not free of mumbo jumbo just yet.

Sorry got to rush to buy baked beans and head for my bunker.

Justforfun

School was where I learnt to lie. I might have told this bit before, in fact I think I have. On the first Monday of school, the rabbi said, stand up all those who were not in Synagogue on Saturday. Half the Upper Third stood up. Fire and brimstone rained down on us. Interestingly, no pupil stood up again until the next intake arrived the following September.

We both grew up with a healthy disrespect for men of the cloth.

Isn’t that what they do in those spiritually-challenged Anglican churches? That an Michael Row the Boat Ashore?

Just go visit the Ahmadi mosques. And you miss the point anyway.

Well no – because I was commenting on a comment and not the original posting (funny video btw). [and afaict the majority of muslims see the Ahmadi's as apostates].

This discussion really is inane and misses the whole point of the video. That Amir has mis-interpreted it and launched into a massive rant is unsurprising.

Well – he might have a bee in his bonnet, otoh what did you want, a different sort of debate? lots of me-toos on the topic that religiousity was stupid? People sitting in a circle and singing Kumbayah?

http://www.hslda.org/research/faq.asp

It certainly seems that more and more parents are worried about religious instruction to their children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling#Motivations_to_homeschool

Possibly – or maybe they are thinking long term – it will cost them a fortune to pay aethiests to make up the numbers. And then think of the chaos as little Johnny English poses difficult questions in the ironically named “Charles Darwin Lecture Hall” on the meaning of religion in the mind of his plastic stegasuarus during the Jurassic Period.

Justforfun

PS – I found the video offensive and not at all funny. It is rude to mock the aflicted.

oh i think i’ve had enough giggles for the day now. better go back to the paper on changing funding landscapes. *sigh*

[can i have my chocolate button now?]

Protestant culture – Ring ring – is that God? – what the f**ck is this law you have written down in this memo I have just received? – no intermediaries or operator required – leads to questioning “Is God actually in the building?” – perhaps not? – this leads to direct responsibilty for ones actions – this leads to realisation that God is just like the stabilisers on a bike, a waste of time once you can ride. And as they say once you can ride a bike , you never forget. Of course if you fall off and hurt yourself then do you put the stabilisers back on or learn why you fell off?

Catholic – ring ring – operator – can you contact god for me? I have a question about the memo I received? He said what ? Your kidding? He did ! OK – thank you – can you ring me tomorrow for my wake up call. – - leads to no personal responsibilty – God is in the building – or so the operator said – Life goes on the same.

The stabilisers stay on the bike because you are never told that you can take them off, and you are never told that the gyroscopic action of the two large wheels will keep you upright. Shhhh don’t tell anyone, but riding a bike has nothing to do with balance, its all to do with conservation of angular momentum.

Justforfun

Justforfun