Justforfun

She could not bear it!

I have to say I would want to protect my children from Julie Burchill – so rude. I’ve just added to my wife’s list of people who should be forced to wear the veil:

1. Tony Blair
2. Jack Straw
3. Julie Burchill + a gag.

add your own.

–
Interesting exchange between India Knight and Burchill.
On October 15, India Knight wrote in her column in the Sunday Times headline “Muslims are the new Jews” where she attacked the negative views of Jack Straw and feminists towards the Muslim veil. This email exchange followed shortly after:

To: letters@sunday-times.co.uk

From: Julie Burchill

Dear India Knight,

I dare you to walk into any mosque – after covering your filthy female head in the Islamist fashion, of course – and spread your glad tidings that “Muslims are the new Jews.”

You’ll be lucky if you get out alive.

Yours sincerely,

JB

PS: I see that your new book is a compilation of ‘dirty bits’ from novels. I’d love to know how this fits in with your new found love of feminine modesty and discretion.

To: Julie Burchill

From: India Knight

Oh, for fuck’s sake. I don’t have a “newfound love of modesty and discretion” – I just don’t despise people on the basis of what they wear.

Regards,

IK

To: India Knight

From: Julie Burchill

What, not even the working class slags in crop tops you’re forever slagging off, you hypocritical snob?

To: Julie Burchill

From: India Knight

I do NOT slag off working class people in crop tops, you fucking loon. Where? When? Why would I slag them off? I am many things but I am not a snob. God, you’re driving me mad. Go away.

To: India Knight

From: Julie Burchill

I wrote to the letters page, not YOU, you stalking cretin. Why dont you fuck off and turn yet another of your husbands gay?

Obviously I think it’s a banal and stupid article with some horrendous content but the veil is an important issue on a number of counts.

Firstly you have the liberal notion of equality. The presumption that women wear the veil without some co-ercion takes some believing particularly world wide so there are possible issues of social presure albeit many do wear it as a matter of choice. A fashion statement, which expects only women to cover their faces is of some concern.

Secondly there is the issue of false religious consciousness. The Koran has precious little evidence for face covering, arguments based on the semantics of transalation of arabic words such as Hijab etc and obscure passages, which require some convalution of interpretation to derive face covering as their essential meaning.

Thirdly there is the issue of integration and there has to be some recognition that a society that has largely rejected it’s own monotheist religion and has no history of social face covering can expect to be able to critisice those who’s religious or fashion statements conform to expectations beyond certain expected boundaries of reasonableness.

Underneath Straws comments are the start of the nation’s talking heads attempting to start the process of acknowledging Islam as a fundamental aspect of British life ending forty years of either ignoring it or patronising it under the auspices of multi culturalism.

Any way you look at it though whether it be from an Islamic, Western or any other point of view it cannot be healthy for women to conceal their faces. And any society that can go through contortions of anti intellectual naval gazing to justify it is one that has little comprehension of secular liberalism whatever it’s rhetoric.

It’s not a question of legislation, but of Islam being taken seiously and the arguments surrounding it being of a nature you would expect of a nation that does take it seriously.

The irony from a moslem fundamentalist point of view, is that Allah and Mohammed are now on the comedy radar screen and flashing bigger all the time. Trying to scare people can only get you so far. At some point it will rebound on you.

Anas you are calling for censorship you are asking us not to criticise Islam because you get some grief off a minority of idiots. Anas a word of advice asking anyone who is not a friend of yours to respect your particular sensitivities only encourages them. Rise above it you baby.

I will make you a new one happy now.

It’s not about what I do or do not like, or whether I can behave in a calm or rational manner; it’s the concern I have about people using positions of power, or influence to spread misinformation and half-truths that can in the current situation be conceivably seen as fuelling hatred and bigotry. Plus, I’m not calling for censorship just awareness.

I’d love to live on planet ZinZin where Islamaphobia doesn’t exist, but unfortunately I have to live on this one.

Anas if your looking for someone to blame for all this Islamophobia blame the MCB. It is this cabal which started the Muslim identity politics that afflict us all. Their focus on placing their religion as a marker of identity makes it a legitimate target for criticism.

I would also like to state that Islamophobia is a myth. It barely exists and is an invention of Islamic victim politics.

With rights come responsibilities. The avalanche of criticisms specifically targeting certain practises of some Muslims are worrying at this point in time because of:

(i) The specific cultural context they come in. One of increasing intolerance, bigotry and racial abuse, in many cases targeted against Muslims or people of Muslim appearance. You cannot separate the criticism from the context.

(ii)In lot of instances the criticisms are misleading because they focus on the behaviour of a small atypical minority and yet are played up as symbolic of the intransigence of a whole community.

(iii)There seems to be an agenda behind them. Especially with the BNP who’re disguising racism as criticism of Islam.

the contempt and opprobrium that secular intellectuals and thinkers (jewish and non-jewish) hurled toward the obscurantism and separatism of the haredi and ‘orthodox’ jewry of europe is well known.

Err, not it’s not generally well known. Pray tell.

now muslims want insulation from the critique? here in the states it is acceptable to mock inbred fundamentalists.

I guess it’s more (morally) acceptable because the fundamentalists aren’t exactly a small powerless community.

BTW forced marriage is an issue that effects all south asian communities, and is something that most Muslim scholars decry.

http://extremegh.blogspot.com/2006/09/religious-debate.html

b’shalom

bananabrain

She asserts that ‘it has become acceptable to say the most ignorant, degrading things about Islam.’ Acceptable in which circles? And how about some specifics?

It is not only white males who are unqualified to have an opinion, there are all those old ‘feminists’ whose entire combined critique is apparently encapsulated by ‘In their view all Muslim women are crushed because they can’t wear visible lipstick or flash their thongs’.

Right, because the only two options are full coverage or slapper. Consider the implications of that casual judgement.

As for ‘… an observant person’s religion is as integral a part of them as their genetic make-up.’ I’d really like to see a reasoned argument for that.