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Get the in-flight ‘Punjabi experience’

Posted By Sunny On 15th October, 2006 @ 12:32 am In Humour | Comments Disabled

This is [1] downright hilarious.

Harjinder Singh Sidhu, who lives in the UK and is a British passport holder, bought Air Slovakia, a small privately owned airline based in the capital, Bratislava last week, it has emerged.

His son, Riqbal ‘Rocky’ Singh, told the BBC News website that his father wants to transform the 60-employee Air Slovakia into a “Punjabi experience”.

That means using crew, food and in-flight entertainment from the northern Indian state of Punjab and using regional headquarters based in the Punjabi city of Jalandhar.

Would you put your life in the hands of a Punjabi airline with a Punjabi pilot? I didn’t think so either! The plane would never take off on time for a start. Being Punjabi I’d love to help a brotha and all that but this may be taking it too far. What could the in-flight Punjabi experience entail? Punjabi air-stewardesses… Bhangra parties 40,000 feet in the sky? Maybe it’s not such a bad idea after all.


Comments Disabled To "Get the in-flight ‘Punjabi experience’"

#1 Comment By Vladimir On 15th October, 2006 @ 12:43 am

I was reading bout this earlier on the BBC site, with the history of Air Slovakia, it already sounds semi Punjabi already.
I can imagine loads of Punjabi men on it, totally drunk as they have drank all there duty free booze, even before they have landed in India, and then them doing what Punjabi men do best.

#2 Comment By Kulvinder On 15th October, 2006 @ 1:20 am

Whats the point of buying Air Slovakia if he intends to completely change it to something else? As it is i echo the erm reluctance to travel with the ‘punjabi experience’

BA/Virgin 4mekthxbye

#3 Comment By Not Saussure On 15th October, 2006 @ 1:46 am

Hmm. Yes, I have to say my experiences of travelling in Northern India would make me rather wary of having ‘a Punjabi experience’ at high altitude, too. Though, come to think of it, ‘a Slovakian experience’ in the air must be pretty hair-raising, too.

#4 Comment By Chris Stiles On 15th October, 2006 @ 2:07 am


Though, come to think of it, ‘a Slovakian experience’ in the air must be pretty hair-raising, too.

Though on the plus side, your gin and tonic might be handed to you by a girl with green eyes and cheekbones.

#5 Comment By raz On 15th October, 2006 @ 2:27 am

A Sikh airline? Let’s just hope the plane isn’t scheduled to fly at twelve o’clock :)

#6 Comment By Sunny On 15th October, 2006 @ 2:46 am

The first thing people will do is ask for whisky… and first in line will be the pilot!

#7 Comment By Vikrant On 15th October, 2006 @ 3:26 am

The first thing people will do is ask for whisky… and first in line will be the pilot!

Johnny Lever once joked about Maharashtrian pilots! I guess same jokes apply for Punjabis as well.

I can already imagine myself shouting at Air Steward

‘Oye Kartare! Mainu whisky lagde’

#8 Comment By Vikrant On 15th October, 2006 @ 3:29 am

BA/Virgin

Kulvinder you really need to experiment. I’m sick of BA and their matornly air stewardesses. Hope so Air ‘Punjab’ Slovakia stock their stables with sexy chikitas direct from the villages of Punjab.

#9 Comment By Nav On 15th October, 2006 @ 3:30 am

I would so fly Air Punjab.

#10 Comment By bikhair aka taqiyyah On 15th October, 2006 @ 4:19 am

Someone told me Indian planes were like Indian buses. I’ll fly with whitey thank you. Ha Ha Ha. How rude.

#11 Comment By bikhair aka taqiyyah On 15th October, 2006 @ 4:27 am

Sunny,

THat is kind racist though. Its almost like Birth of the Nation. Would I fly a plane owned and operated by a bunch of black folks? Well it’ll be late, have a flat tire, seats would be different colors, they will be serving a bunch of greasy soul food, fools would be fightin in first class, windows would be all tinted, flight attendents would be cussing people for having to do their job, t.v. would only show BET, it would just be a mess. But it would probably be the hippest flight ever.

#12 Comment By ek_rani On 15th October, 2006 @ 5:17 am

Um… i think these comments are a little rude… The reason why our community can’t get ahead is because of people making stereotypical comments like these… It’s nice to know that even if you’re Panjabi, you have no faith in your own community… I’m getting a little tired of continuously making Panjabi’s into a joke… Empower each other instead of bringing each other down.

#13 Comment By Kulvinder On 15th October, 2006 @ 6:18 am

I’m sick of BA and their matornly air stewardesses

I like that though :$ it reminds me of school. Sometimes i wish they’d shout at me more :$

THat is kind racist though. Its almost like Birth of the Nation.

Get the chief constable of north wales onto it pronto!

#14 Comment By Nav On 15th October, 2006 @ 8:07 am

“Um… i think these comments are a little rude… The reason why our community can’t get ahead is because of people making stereotypical comments like these… It’s nice to know that even if you’re Panjabi, you have no faith in your own community… I’m getting a little tired of continuously making Panjabi’s into a joke… Empower each other instead of bringing each other down.”

Come on, lighten up.

#15 Comment By Roger On 15th October, 2006 @ 11:27 am

“It’s nice to know that even if you’re Panjabi, you have no faith in your own community…”
“The Irish are a very fair people. They never speak well of one another.”- Dr. Johnson.

#16 Comment By Rakhee On 15th October, 2006 @ 12:14 pm

I’m gujarati and the same concept would mean passengers would be singing bhajans all the way to alaska.

I would absolutely LOVE to fly Air Punjab.

I’m not generalising but in my experience, every single time I’ve been around punjabi people, especially at parties, they’ve been a whole load of fun, very cheeky, welcoming and most of all have really made me laugh. And that includes the old grannies!

I normally fly BA and although it’s cool, it can be dull being ‘proper’ all the time.

If it was a 2 hour european flight, I’d definitely give Punjabi Airlines a go. What a great start to a hen or stag do.

#17 Comment By Vikrant On 15th October, 2006 @ 12:33 pm

And Marathis will sulk that they are getting the crummiest deal of all and whine about how their being treated shabbily just coz they are ‘Marathi manoos’.

Whilst my Rajput kinsmen will probably insist on Air Stewardesses waering a hijab-like pallu.

#18 Comment By obscene machine On 15th October, 2006 @ 12:56 pm

not only the hippest but the quickest flight, as the pilots no doubt like their bus driving counterparts, they’ll be cursing the slow planes in front with frequent shouts of ‘panjot parreh hut!’ and taking their flying machines beyond unto capabilities yet unknown to man. Does this mean the whole air slovakian fleet gets fog horn upgrades and ‘horn if you want to pass’ painted on the back? Can’t wait till they buy the new tata airbuses….hehehe

#19 Comment By Vikrant On 15th October, 2006 @ 1:18 pm

Witnessed my first ’serious’ accident.

[2] http://amey.pickledpolitics.com/?p=39

#20 Comment By Vladimir On 15th October, 2006 @ 1:24 pm

Trying to imagine planes, like this: [3] http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~olston/img/india_trucks.jpg even if the tailfins were like it!

#21 Comment By Jagdeep On 15th October, 2006 @ 1:32 pm

This is the best news I have read in ages. ek_rani lighten up — Punjabis have a sense of humour and we enjoy ourselves in fact this is the best aspect of Punjabi people we make fun of our stereotypes at the same time as we excel — look at all the high achieving Punjabis on this thread —- what a brilliant concept Air Punjab —- from Birmingham is a Punjabi city and think about it Heathrow is like a mini Punjab already with Southall next door its about bloody time.

OK— so the first class carriage will seve Johnnie Walker Black Label whilst those in standard only get the crappy Aldi/Kwik Save own brand whisky but there will be at least a few uncles who smuggle a couple of bottles on board in personal luggage. Lota in the toilet of course. Proper Punjaban muttiars as hostesses.

Everyone swears and cusses there is a rush to use the toilet when the pilot anounces we are flying over Pakistan. In-flight meals of aloo wale parothay with achaar and dhey….there’s massive shouts of uncles shouting at the Punjaban air hostesses to bring some masala for the dhey….after the captain and co-pilot eat their dinner they leave the intercom by mistake on and all the passengers hear the pilot burping loud and saying “Paanchod….jaadey kaalia parontay….neendh ayai” (translation for non Punjabis: ‘Sister Fucker! I ate too many parontay, I feel sleepy now)

In flight entertainment —- on the audio, either UK bhangra or desi bhangra albums — -ie: Specialist and Tru Skool, DCS, Aman Hayer, Notorious Jatt versus Bindrakhia etc etc. Film entertainment — some battered 1980’s movie starring Meher Mittal.

At least one fight between Jatt boys who are offended by the way they look at each other. In the baggage area, special places for musicians to keep their dhols and tumbis.

Oh I can’t wait when is the first flight.

#22 Comment By Jagdeep On 15th October, 2006 @ 1:34 pm

Bikhair

Have you seen a movie called Soul Plane with Snoop Dogg?? Exactly like you describe about a black American airline with the planes all pimped out and just as you say it is….hilarious!

#23 Comment By Jagdeep On 15th October, 2006 @ 1:42 pm

Oh wow - Chairwoman and Katy — I just looked at the Air Slovakia website and they fly a route to Tel Aviv — that means you too can fly with Air Punjab if you ever want to visit Israel! How fantastic. Birmingham —> Tel Aviv —> Amritsar.

I can see Tel Aviv becoming a big stopover destination for Punjabis now - match made in heaven. And take note of these posts because if you travel by Air Punjab it is good to knwo what to expect on flight :-)

#24 Comment By Kiran On 15th October, 2006 @ 2:08 pm

just thought i’d add a little humour to your flying experince,
Sardar’s wish :when i die,i wana die like my grandpa who died peacefully in his sleep not screamin like all the passengers in the plane he was flying…

#25 Comment By Douglas Clark On 15th October, 2006 @ 2:20 pm

Kiran,

That is a cracking joke.

#26 Comment By Vikrant On 15th October, 2006 @ 3:04 pm

Hopefully Air Punjab doesnt become another version of
Air “Rude bicth’s” India..

#27 Comment By Chairwoman On 15th October, 2006 @ 4:14 pm

Why wouldn’t I fly Air Punjab? The food and customer service couldn’t be worse than BA, and the last time I flew Virgin, the captain announced that we couldn’t take off on time, because the brakes needed bleeding. I had a vision of a man with a huge jar, piece of hosepipe and a can of Lockheeds brake fluid sitting out there on the tarmac. Air Punjab could be fun. I could sit with all the other Auntiejis and matchmake!

#28 Comment By bikhair aka taqiyyah On 15th October, 2006 @ 4:15 pm

Jagdeep,

I heard about Soul Plane but never saw it. Movies perpetuating the stereotypes of stupid and incompetant black people just dont do it for me. I am sure it was funny though.

#29 Comment By Jagdeep On 15th October, 2006 @ 4:31 pm

Chairwoman you will be right at home!

Yeah bikhair you should watch it, it is all good fun. But I understand what you mean about perpetuating stereotypes.

#30 Comment By Emma On 15th October, 2006 @ 9:50 pm

“Film entertainment — some battered 1980’s movie starring Meher Mittal.”

I love this airline already. Meher Mittal, damn, brings back memories :)

#31 Comment By realitist On 16th October, 2006 @ 12:03 am

dudes.. there is a serious side to all of this. mehl mittal was a pervert. i saw him in a movie where hes his usual middle age self, and hes still in college sherring the kuria and shit. oh and jagdeep dont hate on pakistan man - nuff panjabis down there.

#32 Comment By scoobySnacks On 16th October, 2006 @ 1:02 am

Love the jokes people. Keep them coming.

Congratulations to Rocky & family for finally sealing the deal!
Don’t screw it up & I want to see a bright ORANGE plane @ birmingham in a few months & a 40kg weight allowance.

#33 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 1:24 am

a 40kg weight allowance.

Only 40kg? Fuck that… i expect flat 100kg nothing less…

#34 Comment By Jagdeep On 16th October, 2006 @ 11:32 am

Yeah I know realtist I was just joking and being satirical

LoL @ extra kg allowance

#35 Comment By Mandip On 16th October, 2006 @ 4:50 pm

Raz - Re you comment 5

Flying at 12 o’clock would only be a problem for people who enjoy racist jokes like you. Perhaps you should read where the 12 o’clock joke comes from and the you would realise that the joke is on you.

[4] http://o3.indiatimes.com/sikhjokes/
[5] http://www.sikhpoint.com/community/Articles/12OClockJoke.php

#36 Comment By raz On 16th October, 2006 @ 5:04 pm

LOL get a sense of humour Mandip. I think those articles you posted were probably written at 12 o’clock as well :)

#37 Comment By Jai On 16th October, 2006 @ 5:20 pm

Raz,

=>”LOL get a sense of humour Mandip. I think those articles you posted were probably written at 12 o’clock as well”

In that case, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind the rest of us cracking jokes about Muslims regularly going crazy 5 times per day, especially on Fridays :)

“All just jokes, man”.

#38 Comment By Sandy Kaur On 16th October, 2006 @ 5:29 pm

No need for Muslim jokes these days - just read the newspaper every morning for your fill of comedy :-)

#39 Comment By raz On 16th October, 2006 @ 5:47 pm

Absolutely Jai. Didn’t Al-Hack post a load of Muslim jokes in a topic a while ago? Hit me with some of your best :)

Here’s some Sikh jokes to get you started:

Sardarji gets ready, wears tie, coat, goes out, climbs tree, and sits on
the branch regularly. A man asks why he does this.
Sardarji: “I’ve been promoted as branch manager.” !

==========================================
Why is a Sardarji standing below a tube light with a open
mouth…………….. Because his doctor advised him “Today’s dinner
should be light” !

===========================================
Sardar told his servant: Go and water the plants. Servant:
It’s already raining. Sardar: So what take an umbrella and go !

===========================================
A teacher told all students in a class to write an essay on a cricket
match. All were busy writing except one Sardarji. He wrote “DUE TO RAIN,
NO MATCH!” !

============================================
A Sardar & his wife filed an application for Divorce. Judge
asked: How’ll U divide, U”VE 3 children? Sardar replied: Ok! We’ll apply
NEXT YEAR !

============================================
A Teacher lecturing on population - In India after every 10 sec a woman
gives birth to a kid. A Sardar stands up- We must find & stop her!.

============================================
A man asked sardarji, why Manmohan singh goes walking at evening not in
the morning. Sardarji replied ”Arey bhai Manmohan is PM not AM”.!

============================================

Why did Sardar cut the sides of the capsule before taking it? Guess
what…—To avoid side effect!!!

============================================
Man: Sardarji where were u born? Sardarji: Punjab. Man:
Which part?
Sardar: Oye part part kya kar raha hai, whole body is born in punjab”.!

============================================

Sardar: For the past one week a girl is disturbing me. I don’t know how
she got my no, She interrupts whenever I call someone and says “please
recharge your card” !

============================================
A person went into the office kitchen one morning and found Mrs Sardar
painting the walls. She was wearing a new fur coat and a nice denim
jacket. Thinking this was a little strange, he asked her why she was
wearing them rather than old clothes or an overall. She showed him the
instructions on the tin, “For best results put on two coats”

===============================================

A sardar was drawing money from ATM, The sardar behind him in the line
said, “Ha! Ha! Haaa! I’ve seen ur password. Its 4 asterisks (****). The
first sardar replies, Ha! Ha! Haaa! U r wrong, Its 1258 !

===============================================

Santa Singh MBBS. After finishing his MBBS, Dr. Santa Singh starts his
own practice. He checked his first patient’s Eyes, then the Tongue,and
finally the Ears using a torch. Finally he said Battery is Ok !!!

===============================================

#40 Comment By Jai On 16th October, 2006 @ 5:59 pm

Raz,

There is a difference between Chris Rock using the word “n*gger” in front of a predominantly black audience as part of his comedy routine, and a white comedian attempting to do the same.

Hopefully you will understand the analogy.

#41 Comment By raz On 16th October, 2006 @ 6:08 pm

lol talk about sense of humour failure. lighten up and stop being so sensitive. you should learn from Jagdeep - take a look at his post #21

#42 Comment By Kiran On 16th October, 2006 @ 6:19 pm

Raz while you are at it with the sikh jokes here are some I have enjoy…

How do you recognize a Sardar in School? He is the one who erases the notes from the book when the teacher erases the board.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

A Sardar is in a bar and his cellular phone rings. He picks it up and says “Hello, how did you know I was here?”

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Teacher: “I killed a person” convert this sentence into future tense.
Sardar: The future tense is “u will go to jail”.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sardar wins 20 cr from Rs.20 lottery ticket. Dealer gave 11cr after
deducting tax.
Angry Sardar: “Give me 20 cr or else return my 20 Rs back.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sardar at an Art Gallery: I suppose this horrible looking thing is
what you
call modern art ?
Art dealer: I beg your pardon sir, thats a mirror

#43 Comment By Jai On 16th October, 2006 @ 6:27 pm

Raz,

I see that the analogy I made in #40 has failed to register with you.

Sunny = Punjabi Sikh.
Jagdeep = Punjabi Sikh.

You = Not Sikh.

Sunny and Jagdeep making humorous comments higher up this thread about certain stereotypes — which are actually accurate in some ways — is an “inside joke”.

Anyone who is not from a Sikh Punjabi background: Depends on what they say and whether the Sikh Punjabis they’re telling the “joke” to are okay with it. If they’re uncomfortable with it, then attempting to belabor the point is bad manners and insensitive, especially if combined with the typical non-Sikh Asian caveat of “don’t be so sensitive yaar”.

The comments Sunny & Jagdeep have made do have some basis in reality, even though it’s exaggerated. Again, it’s also an “inside joke”.

However, “sardarji” jokes frequently have no basis in reality whatsoever. This applies to “12 o’clock” jokes — which, as Mandip said, is actually a severe distortion of real historical events — and especially other “jokes” indicating that Sikhs lack intelligence and so on. There are several Sikhs here on PP — not “sardars” literally, but still Sikhs — and I defy anyone to claim that any of us has problems with our intellect.

You have to remember one thing. The original, archetypal “sardar” was Guru Gobind Singh. And he was about as far from the “unintelligent buffoon, figure-of-fun sardarji” stereotype as you can get.

You may as well allow people like Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson to start telling jokes about “Pakis” once again while you’re at it; it doesn’t matter if it’s “all said in humour, no harm done” — if it perpetuates negative stereotypes about a certain group, and the “targets” object to being ridiculed in this way, then continuing this behaviour is no longer a joke — it’s bullying and racist.

#44 Comment By raz On 16th October, 2006 @ 6:36 pm

Nice one Kiran :) Keep them coming.

Jai, get a life. Notice I didn’t get upset about Jagdeep’s joke about wanting to go to the toilet over Pakistan (which I thought was quite funny), or your joke about Muslims going mad five times a day. If you can’t laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? And your knee-jerk accusations of RACISM are laughable. This was a fine, light hearted thread involving Sikhs and non-Sikhs, and then you showed up with your nonsense. If you are going to get offended so easily, maybe you need to join the Sikh Federation and start whining for the government to protect you.

#45 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 6:57 pm

raz,
Jai, get a life.

Its human nature. Its like i can cuss my people but if you do the same, i’ll beat the shit out of you.

Notice I didn’t get upset about Jagdeep’s joke about wanting to go to the toilet over Pakistan (which I thought was quite funny)

If you’ve ever been in a London-Mumbai flight you’ll realise how everybody rushes discharge their bladders just as the plane is about to land, at the time, plane is generally over Pakistani airspace.

#46 Comment By Jai On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:00 pm

Raz,

You need to think more objectively about this yourself. I wasn’t cracking a joke about Muslims going mad X times per day at all — it was an analogy to draw attention to what it is like when the tables are turned. Some people would find it funny, some would not, and since in the final analysis making jokes at the expense of people from different groups isn’t really morally justifiable — and, for the record, it’s something Sikhism explicitly teaches against, especially if we’re talking about religious groups — the right thing to do is drop the matter if the “target” doesn’t like it. It’s not rocket science — just basic courtesy.

For the record, I don’t personally make jokes ridiculing people from a different background to myself. There is such a thing as taking advantage of other people’s good nature.

And yes, this was a nice light-hearted thread, until you started making “12 o’clock” jokes and ignoring Mandip’s objections. The least you could have done was say to him/her “Sorry, it was just a joke, no offence” and left the matter at that. Which of course you didn’t. I can guarantee that Mandip would have accepted your apology and moved on.

Jagdeep’s remark about “toilets over Pakistan” was a dig at the prejudice many Indian Punjabis have against their neighbouring country; it wasn’t a joke at the expense of Pakistanis themselves. Try to understand the difference.

However, if jokes about Muslims (analogous to “sardar” jokes) become fashionable in the UK in the near-future amongst the majority non-Muslim British population, then we will see how the targets react to that. As the events of the last couple of years have demonstrated, unfortunately many Muslims don’t exactly have a long track record of exhibiting a sense of humour when they are on the receiving end of “jokes” themselves.

Not so funny now, is it ? ;)

#47 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:04 pm

Jai,

re:Mandip’s 12 ‘o’ clock link

It seems the ‘captured women rescued by Sikhs’ refers to over 22000 Maratha women captured in the aftermath of third battle of Panipat. Interesting really, i’m reading a book on Panipat just to sharpen up my Marathi reading skills…

#48 Comment By Jai On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:11 pm

Vikrant,

Yes, they started intercepting caravans of soldiers heading back to the northwest, and it appears that they deliberately chose a time to attack when the enemy soldiers would be caught the most off-guard. It’s quite interesting.

I’m still ploughing my way through White Mughals and will probably get cracking on The Last Mughal by Dalrymple after that. I would like do to some more reading about the Marathas though — this may have been before your time, but there used to be a very famous Indian series during the late ’90s called “The Great Maratha” all about Mahadji Scindia, which I absolutely loved. Shahbaaz Khan did a super job in the lead role too — very charismatic.

Anyway, jokes about Air Punjab aside, the various Indian airlines do have a lot of Sikh/Punjabi pilots and from personal experience they seem to do a great job (quite a charismatic bunch too), so hopefully there shouldn’t be too many problems on that front with Rocky Singh’s new venture ;)

#49 Comment By raz On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:22 pm

Jai,

“And yes, this was a nice light-hearted thread, until you started making “12 o’clock” jokes”

Nonsense. My 12 o’clock joke was one of the first posts in this thread, and both Sunny and Jagdeep (your fellow Sikhs) posted after me in good humour with no sign of complaint. It wasn’t until Mandip and you showed up with your hysterical reactions that the thread got derailed.

Why do you presume I would be bothered about Muslim jokes? Paki jokes have been around for decades, it hasn’t made any difference to my life. Muslims need to learn some backbone and stop whining about trival shit, as shown by the absurd reaction to some ultimately harmless cartoons about Mohammed (would Muslims protest so vehemently about the regular terrorist atrocities carried out in Iraq?) Muslims need to grow some balls, and so do Sikhs (and Hindus for that matter).

#50 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:23 pm

Mahadji Scindia,

My clansman! Actually my ancestors were in the service of Mahadji Shinde (Scindia is anglicised version). He did defeat the Brits at Wadgaon, (my direct ancestor Shyamji Salunki served as a cavalry officer in the battle).

Sadly there is very little literature about Marathas in English, except about Shivajis life. I’d also auggest reading a Hindi book ‘Dharmveer Sambhaji ke Aakhri Pal’ which is a factual account of last hours of Shivaji’s son Sambhaji who was slowly dismembered on Mughal stake by Aurangzeb and ultimately beheaded. His head was paraded across Maratha domains. It so incensed the people, that all the 96 Maratha clans banded together and launched second rebellion which ultimately led to collapse of Mughal empire. Too bad much of Maratha history has been appropriated by Hindutvadis.

#51 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:28 pm

P.S The descendents of enslaved Maratha women live in Iran-Pakistan Balochistan border. They are called Maratha Bugtis. I accidently came to know about this one day at London Waterloo when i happened to pass by a guy who was of all things carrying a Marathi-English dictionary! He claimed to be a Maratha Bugti, who was ineterested in learning Marathi!

[6] http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Maratha+Bugtis&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

#52 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:30 pm

Erhm this seems to be the article…
[7] http://www.dnaindia.com/dnaPrint.asp?NewsID=11563&CatID=2

You’ll find mention of Maratha Bugtis in the article.

#53 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:32 pm

btw 17 of my direct ancestors died at Panipat. I still have ‘death certificate’ for one of them. Estd 10% Maratha population was wiped out in just one day.

#54 Comment By Amir On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:43 pm

Raz,

‘Muslims need to grow some balls, and so do Sikhs (and Hindus for that matter).’

I, on the other hand, can barely fit em’ in me trousers. ;-) According to Katy, Kismet Hardy has the same problem. ;-)

[P.S. Shoaib and Asif are screwed.]

#55 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:53 pm

[P.S. Shoaib and Asif are screwed.]

Yea… freaking cheaters… haha servers them right. I guess they should re-test the whole team.

#56 Comment By Vikrant On 16th October, 2006 @ 7:55 pm

I, on the other hand, can barely fit em’ in me trousers. ;-) According to Katy, Kismet Hardy has the same problem. ;-)

Amri you never told us that you have hydroceole… ;) i advise that you wear a langoatee

#57 Comment By El Cid On 16th October, 2006 @ 8:16 pm

So the Sikhs are the Irish of India?
Well I never!
In Spain, it was the Galicians who used to be tagged as divvy.
Of course, neither the Galicians, Irish, nor the Sikhs are truly thick.

#58 Comment By Jai On 16th October, 2006 @ 8:40 pm

Raz,

If you don’t get it, then you don’t get it. For my part, I’ve done my best to explain matters to you as patiently and as politely as possible. It is interesting that you interpreted as “hysterical” what was a well-meaning attempt to clarify for your benefit how other people would react to your jokes; the only person who has gone berserk on this thread is you. Neither myself, nor Mandip, nor indeed Sandy Kaur who commented here have behaved that way.

It’s curious that when people here attempted to explain to you why “12 o’clock jokes” were misguided and misinformed, you became initially disparaging and dismissive and subsequently aggressive, and then accused the other party of “hysteria” or being “offended”. For the record, I never said anything at all about whether I was offended — I was trying to explain why Mandip and many other Sikhs would find sardarji jokes by non-Sikhs to be insensitive and rude.

Like I said, if it becomes widespread within British culture in the near future for Muslims to become the focus of on-going, negative-stereotype-perpetuating jokes on a nationwide scale (especially “jokes” ridiculing Muslims’ supposed lack of intelligence and alleged backwardness), then it’ll be interesting to see whether you have a sense of humour about it at that point in time.

But again, if you don’t get it then you just don’t get it.

And please don’t keep referring to Sunny and Jagdeep in an attempt to be divisive; they will understand the overall context and nuances of the posts I’ve written on this thread.

#59 Comment By Chairwoman On 16th October, 2006 @ 8:53 pm

Jai - It can be tough when well meaning people make jokes about ones race, and don’t understand that they can be offensive. It’s particularly hard if one’s from a group that enjoys a self depricating laugh.

I’ve spent most of my life dealing with this situation with either a half-smile and a shake of the head, or a raised eyebrow and a sigh. I must admit these actions had very little effect. These days I just say ’sorry, I’m not a joke person’.

If I come up with a foolproof coping method, I’ll let you know.

#60 Comment By justforfun On 16th October, 2006 @ 9:03 pm

El Cid
So the Sikhs are the Irish of India?

Not an exactly. Here starts wild generalisations -

Yes - jokes are made about Sikhs along the line Raz has posted, however that is probably where the similarity ends,

Differences:
Irish - romanitism & victimhood

Sikh - pragmatism combined with a can do attidude to all things practical and technological - call it a sort of Protestant work ethic.
Sikhs don’t have a victim mentality, and this is what I find very hard to match up with what seems a growing tendancy in Sikhs here,and so to hear certain Sikhs trying to play the victim seems so strange.

However they do share with the Irish a love of ‘the crack’.

Similarities -
The Irish have Irish dancing, while the Sikhs have Bhangra, which to me just is like Morris dancing and being the stick in the mud, I’ll never understand the appeal of any of these.

Justforfun

#61 Comment By raz On 16th October, 2006 @ 9:37 pm

“I find very hard to match up with what seems a growing tendancy in Sikhs here,and so to hear certain Sikhs trying to play the victim seems so strange”

Agreed. Thankfully there are moderate Sikhs like Sunny who are trying to counterbalance this stupidity.

#62 Comment By justforfun On 16th October, 2006 @ 9:42 pm

Raz - by “here” I meant in the UK in general, not on this thread in particular, if that is how you understood me, knowing that you speed read my posts :-)

Justforfun

#63 Comment By justforfun On 16th October, 2006 @ 9:48 pm

…and I write badly

Justforfun

#64 Comment By raz On 16th October, 2006 @ 9:49 pm

justforfun,

No, I gathered you were talking in terms of the wider community. But I do think Sunny is a good example of a modern-thinking Sikh.

#65 Comment By Amir On 16th October, 2006 @ 9:49 pm

Justforfun,

However they do share with the Irish a love of ‘the crack’.

I totally misread that!!! Heheheh. 8) Or did I?

#66 Comment By ZinZin On 16th October, 2006 @ 9:53 pm

it is spelt craic.

#67 Comment By Amir On 16th October, 2006 @ 9:56 pm

Raz,

But I do think Sunny is a good example of a modern-thinking Sikh.

Well, I hope not: he’s the only Sikh on PP who has ever accused me of being a BNP sympathiser and a ‘brown hater’, so I’m not quite sure what you mean by ‘modern thinking’…?

‘Red Ken mud-slinging’ - Yes. Accurate.

‘Modern thinking’ - Errr, nope.

You and Jai should cyber-kiss and make-up. :-) Save your hatred until Pakistan plays India in the Cricket. ;-)

#68 Comment By raz On 16th October, 2006 @ 10:00 pm

amir,

I suggest you don’t make any more snarky comments about cricket for a while..that is if you still want to be hooked up with a hot, posh Pakistani girl ;)

#69 Comment By El Cid On 16th October, 2006 @ 10:06 pm

I’m sure the odd Irishman likes both the craic and the crack :)

#70 Comment By Amir On 16th October, 2006 @ 10:12 pm

Raz,

Sorry dude. Sorry dude. Sorry dude! 8)

#71 Comment By Sunny On 17th October, 2006 @ 12:16 am

Admittedly I did cringe at Raz’s earlier statement. I think it would have been better if he used the word Panjabi or Sardar rather than Sikh, as they are completely different. But I don’t Raz means it with malice hence I let it go.

One thing is undeniable however. The 12 o clock Sikh/Sardar joke has consistently been used in the past to paint Sikhs as slightly idiotic and simple people and does have derogatory connotations. So I’m not entirely comfortable with people using it freely.

#72 Comment By Vikrant On 17th October, 2006 @ 5:28 am

So I’m not entirely comfortable with people using it freely.

Just the other day you were saying how you dont care about stereotypical jokes…. Given that i’m subjected to Ghatee jokes along the lines of

#73 Comment By Vikrant On 17th October, 2006 @ 5:29 am

So I’m not entirely comfortable with people using it freely.

Just the other day you were saying how you dont care about stereotypical jokes…. Given that i’m subjected to Ghatee jokes along the lines of ‘12 ‘o’ clock’ jokes, i hope u understand my situation rather than thinking of me as typical Maratha whiner.

#74 Comment By Jai On 17th October, 2006 @ 10:49 am

Amir,

=>”You and Jai should cyber-kiss and make-up. Save your hatred until Pakistan plays India in the Cricket.”

I don’t have any animosity towards Raz. I was trying to explain the difference between a) People, especially those from an Indian Punjabi background, telling accurate in-jokes about fellow Indian Punjabis, and b) non-Sikhs specifically using the word “sardar” and telling inaccurate, caricature-perpetuating jokes specifically about Sikhs.

There is a distinct difference between the two concepts. It’s also worthwhile mentioning here that “sardar” specifically refers to what are known as Keshdhari Sikhs — the more strictly-observant kind with the beards and turbans etc. I don’t know if “sardar” jokes specifically developed in the subcontinent as a way to ridicule Keshdhari Sikhs into becoming so embarrassed that they would eventually supposedly remove the outward signs that are the most visible indicators that they are not Hindus (or Muslims, for that matter). People like to target those who are “different” in some way, of course.

I don’t think there was any maliciousness behind Raz’s actions — I never have — but it is sometimes worthwhile to look at the big picture and understand the wider context of certain situations. Indian/Asian society back in the subcontinent does have a lot of bad habits which are tolerated, sometimes even encouraged, within the culture there. Ridicule of people from different ethnic and/or religious backgrounds is one of these traits, and the targets of the jokes are expected to “grin and bear it” even if they don’t like it (except in the cases of people who become very violent as a result, which also sometimes happens).

It doesn’t mean we have to continue this cultural habit all the way over here in Britain.

#75 Comment By Jai On 17th October, 2006 @ 11:07 am

For the benefit of non-Asians on PP, I’m going to draw one further analogy in order to hammer the point home. Imagine if it becomes acceptable in British culture (in the private sphere, in the media — newspapers, television, films etc, everywhere) for the non-Muslim majority to tell jokes zeroing in on Muslims (more than any other group). I am going to use post #39 as a basis, and I apologise in advance to any Muslims currently visiting PP, especially our various regular commenters; please bear in mind that I am just being rhetorical here.

A Muslim gets ready, wears tie, coat, goes out, climbs tree, and sits on
the branch regularly. A man asks why he does this.
Muslim: “I’ve been promoted as branch manager.” !

==========================================
Why is a Muslim standing below a tube light with a open
mouth….. Because his doctor advised him “Today’s dinner
should be light” !

===========================================
A Muslim told his servant: Go and water the plants. Servant:
It’s already raining. Muslim: So what take an umbrella and go !

===========================================
A teacher told all students in a class to write an essay on a cricket
match. All were busy writing except one Muslim. He wrote “DUE TO RAIN,
NO MATCH!” !

============================================
A Muslim & his wife filed an application for Divorce. Judge
asked: How’ll U divide, U”VE 3 children? The Muslim replied: Ok! We’ll apply
NEXT YEAR !

============================================
A Teacher lecturing on population - In India after every 10 sec a woman
gives birth to a kid. A Muslim stands up- We must find & stop her!.

============================================

Why did a Muslim cut the sides of the capsule before taking it? Guess
what…—To avoid side effect!!!

============================================
Man: Muslim bhabi, where were u born? Muslim : Pakistan. Man:
Which part?
Muslim: Arre part part kya kar raha hai, whole body was born in Pakistan !” (Translation: “Hey, what are you going on about the word “part” for, my whole body was born in Pakistan !”)

============================================

Muslim: For the past one week a girl is disturbing me. I don’t know how
she got my number, She interrupts whenever I call someone and says “please
recharge your card” !

============================================
A person went into the office kitchen one morning and found Mrs Muslim
painting the walls. She was wearing a new fur coat and a nice denim
jacket. Thinking this was a little strange, he asked her why she was
wearing them rather than old clothes or an overall. She showed him the
instructions on the tin, “For best results put on two coats”

===============================================

A Muslim was drawing money from ATM, The Muslim behind him in the line
said, “Ha! Ha! Haaa! I’ve seen ur password. Its 4 asterisks (****). The
first Muslim replies, Ha! Ha! Haaa! U r wrong, Its 1258 !

===============================================

Iqbal Khan MBBS. After finishing his MBBS, Dr. Iqbal Khan starts his
own practice. He checked his first patient’s Eyes, then the Tongue,and
finally the Ears using a torch. Finally he said Battery is Ok !!!

===============================================

You can see how it becomes very distasteful after a while. Imagine if the very word “Muslim” became synonymous in British culture with the caricature of such a person being stupid, uncivilised, ignorant and so on. And this occurs on a national scale, for years and years on end.

Again, I’m just being rhetorical here, but hopefully the point has been clearly made.

#76 Comment By Jai On 17th October, 2006 @ 11:16 am

Justforfun,

=>”The Irish have Irish dancing, while the Sikhs have Bhangra, which to me just is like Morris dancing and being the stick in the mud, I’ll never understand the appeal of any of these.”

There’s a widespread theory that the term “Morris dancing” is actually a corruption of the phrase “Moorish dancing”, ie. it’s originally of Middle-Eastern/Muslim origin. Given the fact that “Morris” dancing includes using handkerchiefs and even swords, I think this theory may well be accurate. As you know, there’s also been some cultural influence in Punjab (music etc) from regions to the northwest of the subcontinent, so perhaps there is indeed some overlap here too — to some extent, there’s a common cultural/historical source.

#77 Comment By Jai On 17th October, 2006 @ 11:23 am

Vikrant,

Thanks for the links about the Marathas — the facts in your own posts have been fascinating too. Amazing that you have direct ancestral links to the events at Panipat and even Mahadji Scindia/Shinde. You must be very proud, eh ;)

I did do a little further background reading after I saw that TV series I mentioned earlier; it’s quite thought-provoking that if he hadn’t died in mysterious circumstances (supposedly poisoned, no ?), it’s believed by many historians that he had the capacity to become the successor to the Mughal Emperors. History may well have subsequently taken a very different course indeed…..

#78 Comment By bananabrain On 17th October, 2006 @ 11:29 am

i’d fly air punjab, as long as i got an in-flight manual on how to insult people in the swearingest language on earth. sounds like fun - plus i like the music - look!

*does the “lightbulb” and the “headlights”*

i was told that morris dancing is a corruption of “moorish dancing”. makes sense except that it’s a bit hard to understand how they got the business with the sticks from what was probably a combination of belly dancing and flamenco.

b’shalom

bananabrain

#79 Comment By justforfun On 17th October, 2006 @ 11:31 am

Jai - I knew it !! Its so obvious there is a connection - Grown men dancing around with bells on their feet, funny headgear and coloured shirts ( with plenty of chest hairs showing and belts to tight, mimicing the actions of bringing in the harvest etc etc

….and now doing the birdie song!!!

Bhangra and Morris dancing needs to be banned before it does more harm to our kids. You know it makes sense. What is the Labour Government doing - is it asleep!! Jamie Oliver has started a campaign against the innocent turkey twizzler , but not a squeek about the damage Bhangra is doing!! We need police officers going around schools on Bhangra Awarness classes. I am convinced if they perform in front of a class just the once, many children will be so put off Bhangra and it will be wiped out in a generation. The young children need to be educated and saved the embarrasment of having to ever dance bhangra again when adults.

Justforfun

#80 Comment By bananabrain On 17th October, 2006 @ 11:40 am

terry pratchett once mentioned the “long drawn-out accordion chord that must by law precede all folk music, to give bystanders a chance to get away”. he also created such terms as “sexual morrisment”. hehe.

b’shalom

bananabrain

#81 Comment By Jai On 17th October, 2006 @ 11:40 am

Bananabrain,

I don’t know about the origin of the “sticks dancing” (ironically there is actually an Indian equivalent, amongst Gujaratis), but the rest of it makes sense. Especially as traditionally it also sometimes involved “blacking up”, I believe, at least amongst those living on the Welsh-English border.

Wikipedia has an interesting article on the latter [8] here.

#82 Comment By Mandip On 17th October, 2006 @ 3:42 pm

Raz - I hope you get the message now that there are quite a few sikhs who find sardarji/12 o’clock jokes distasteful and offensive and I would kindly ask you to please refrain from posting such jokes/comments. I am sure you will have felt the same way after the Danish cartoons, although I will admit that they were even more distasteful (or maybe you thought they were ok).

By the way, you are going to have to find another “good example of a modern-thinking Sikh” as per your reasoning Sunny no longer qualifies.

#83 Comment By Mandip On 17th October, 2006 @ 3:42 pm

Raz - I hope you get the message now that there are quite a few sikhs who find sardarji/12 o’clock jokes distasteful and offensive and I would kindly ask you to please refrain from posting such jokes/comments. I am sure you will have felt the same way after the Danish cartoons, although I will admit that they were even more distasteful (or maybe you thought they were ok).

By the way, you are going to have to find another “good example of a modern-thinking Sikh” as per your reasoning Sunny no longer qualifies.

#84 Comment By Vikrant On 17th October, 2006 @ 3:58 pm

@Jai: I’m not directly related to Mahadji Sindhe, Sindhe is one prominent clan amongst Marathas. I believe its Marathi equivalent of Singh.

Amazing that you have direct ancestral links to the events at Panipat,

Given that Marathas lost about about 700000 young men in a span of 4 years (including 60000 in a single day at Panipat) almost every Maratha will have some ancestor who was killed/enslaved at Panipat. Its been over 250 years to the war but it has shaped the mental psyche of modern-day Maharashtrian. Common Maharashtrian traits like crab-mentality, nihilism are a direct product of the defeat at Panipat.

#85 Comment By bananabrain On 17th October, 2006 @ 4:27 pm

mandip -

if the mo cartoons affair has taught me anything it is that all religions need a healthy dose of piss-taking once in a while. sikhism (which is a religion i have a great affection for) and sikhs, as well as punjabis in general, should be proud to take their fair share. no doubt you were one of the people who thought it was terribly clever to throw bricks at the theatre where behzti was being performed.

b’shalom

bananabrain

#86 Comment By Mandip On 17th October, 2006 @ 4:57 pm

bananabrain - no i didnt think it was clever to throw bricks, so please dont make wild assumptions like that.

Fair share is fine, but for sikhs, esp in india sikh jokes, have gone past the limit of fair share. You will realise this by watching indian tv programmes and bollywood films, no community is ridiculed or shown as buffons as much as the sikh community. Remember we only make up 2% of the population of india and there is absolutely no basis for these stereotypes. Time has come to say enough is enough.

#87 Comment By Jai On 17th October, 2006 @ 5:07 pm

Bananabrain,

Replace the word “Muslim” with “Jew” in my post #75, make such “jokes” targetted at Jewish people more than any other ethnic or religious group within a certain mainstream population, and you’ll understand the significance of “sardar” jokes within some quarters of Asian society, along with why so many Sikhs — even “moderate” ones — object to them.

Satire is one thing. Negative propaganda singling out one group above all others is a different matter entirely, especially when it’s all based on random lies.

The “Punjabi” jokes as detailed by Sunny and Jagdeep earlier in this thread actually are very funny because they have a firm basis in fact, albeit exaggerated. “Sardar” jokes — which are specifically geared to target the most visibly religiously-observant group amongst Sikhs — have absolutely no basis in reality at all; it’s a completely fabricated caricature. It becomes a further problem when large numbers of people back in India, especially those who have not had extensive personal contact with Sikhs, start believing that this caricature is actually accurate. This is a common occurance in the subcontinent, and the ongoing ridicule of Keshdhari Sikhs more than any other group in the mainstream media there (television & films) plays a significant part in all this too.

Again, replace the word “Sardar” or “Muslim” with “Jew”, and you’ll gain an understanding of how misplaced such “humour” really is. Such jokes have as much accuracy about Jewish people as they do about Keshdhari Sikhs, ie. None.

You may as well let mainstream white “comedians” include jokes caricaturing black and Asian people (indeed, any non-white ethnic group, along with minority religious groups such as Jews) become acceptable in Western countries again. Like I said before, there’s a difference between Chris Rock saying certain things in front of a certain audience, and a non-black person (especially a white guy) attempting the same thing.

#88 Comment By kate On 17th October, 2006 @ 10:07 pm

I’ve read through all these comments and while i can understand the frustrations of Jai and Jagdeep, it was interesting how some commentors disregarded the feelings of earlier posts by ek_rani and Mandip (who i’m sure represent many voices) until raz came about and made his own jokes. I guess it goes back to the whole “you can make fun of your own kind,” but it’s quite clear that it’s a slippery slope. When you start making fun of your own kind, then others are obviously going to do it too.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion but when that opinion starts offending a culture or religion, then a line must be drawn. For the sake of humanity :)

#89 Comment By Zirkona On 17th October, 2006 @ 11:45 pm

A man walks into a sex shop in Soho and asks at the counter about the blow up dolls they sell. They have an infidel woman blow up doll and a Muslim one which comes with a shaved pussy and full burqa over it (with a slit over the mouth). The bloke says, ‘What’s the difference between them?’, and the assisstabt says, ‘The infidel one you have to blow up yourself, the Muslim one blows herself up!’

#90 Comment By Zirkona On 18th October, 2006 @ 12:01 am

bananbrain

Do you think it is acceptable for people to make jokes about Jews? About Jewish caricatures? It’s an interesting thing to consider in the debate isnt it?

Anyway….There was an emergency in Iraq when some British journalists went missing from their base and the army was alerted in case they’d been kidnapped and taken hostage. But they walked in five minutes later holding toilet roll and said, ‘Don’t worry, we only went for a sh’ite’

#91 Comment By Zirkona On 18th October, 2006 @ 12:06 am

Bernard Manning tells a good joke. He was talking to a bloke and he made a joke about the holocaust and this man in the audience starts crying and Bernard Manning says, ‘What’s the matter mate?’. And the man says, ‘I’m sorry, you really upset me. My grandfather died in a concentration camp’. And Bernard Manning goes, ‘I’m really sorry, I feel terrible now for making fun of Jewish suffering’. And the bloke says, ‘Fuck that, he was a guard in the machine gun turret, he fell out of it and broke his neck’

-:+:-

Funny? Let us know. I have some good jokes about black men too. Lets push the boundaries of ethnic humour.

#92 Comment By Zirkona On 18th October, 2006 @ 12:13 am

A Pakistani Mirpuri man invites an Indian back to his house in Bradford for dinner. A demure looking teenage girl walks in and the Pakistani man pinches her bottom, then she turns around and they kiss passionately, full French kissing and groping. Eventually, after much boob squeezing, they part and she walks to the kitchen. The Indian bloke says, ‘Look man, I’m really amazed, I thought you Pakistanis were really sexually repressed, I didnt know that you were so open in your affection with your wife.’ Then the Pakistani turns around and says, ‘Fuck that, she’s my sister’

#93 Comment By Zirkona On 18th October, 2006 @ 12:46 am

A Hindu was walking along the road when he sees a cow and starts praying to it.

That’s it. What a joke.

#94 Comment By Chairwoman On 18th October, 2006 @ 9:55 am

Zirkona - Not offended at all by the ‘Bernard Manning’ joke.

#95 Comment By bananabrain On 18th October, 2006 @ 11:25 am

ahem - also not offended at all by the bernard manning joke; i thought it was quite amusing, although there are of course some people who think that such things should never, ever, ever be made fun of. and, yes, very big and clever, you could say “jew” instead of “sardarji” or “muslim” or whatever, everyone knows that. the same way as “irish” or “polish” jokes can be seriously funny, or seriously not at all funny. it’s about context - who’s telling them, where, to whom. the chris rock example is aposite. and, as we all know perfectly well, if you’re “in” on the joke, ie it’s obvious you don’t mean it in a nasty way, like if you belong to the group being made fun of and, of course, providing that it is actually about making fun and having a laugh and not making a group of people feel uncomfortable, that ought to be OK. now, i don’t have much knowledge of the historical baggage that goes with the 12 o’clock joke - but if someone not from your group makes a joke which relies upon a stereotype which *has been used to actively persecute people in your group* it can be very uncomfortable. for example, the thing about jews having big noses and being tight-fisted. historically, that has been used to persecute us. the big-noses thing was, as you know, not so long ago, used to get us measured with calipers so that “aryan” “scientists” could check whether we were “racially semitic” or not, then gas us and burn us in an oven. obviously, jokes based on that tend not to go down all that well when not made by someone who obviously doesn’t mean anything by it - like the whole “shutup, bignose” scene at the beginning of “life of brian”. it’s the difference between affection and that ghastly phrase “othering”. that’s why “goodness gracious me” was funny. that’s why “bhangraman” and “skipinder the punjabi kangaroo” were funny - and why a “bangladeshi aquaman” sketch probably wouldn’t have been. you can mock yourself, but it’s not nearly as funny to mock others.

b’shalom

bananabrain

#96 Comment By Zirkona On 18th October, 2006 @ 12:15 pm

How about jokes about miserly but extremely rich Jews? Are they offensive? Just a joke after all.

#97 Comment By justforfun On 18th October, 2006 @ 12:34 pm

Bananabrain - I think you have miss understood the thrust of Jai’s comments.

The sikh/muslim/polish/etc jokes that have been posted have all been self contained entities that stand on their own. For their comic effect (if there is one or not is not relevant) they do not need any outside referance to function as a joke.

At random
A —- was drawing money from ATM, The —- behind him in the line
said, “Ha! Ha! Haaa! I’ve seen ur password. Its 4 asterisks (****). The
first —- replies, Ha! Ha! Haaa! U r wrong, Its 1258!

The joke is self contained and is about a person being childlike and simple - we have all played the repetative game with 5 yearolds - you did it , you did it , you did it etc …. ending with I did it, hopeing the child will repeat “I did It” and so implicate themselves. A self contained joke that happens to have —— as the subject, implying all —- are simple and childlike.

However jokes that have a basis on stereotypes within communities are not self contained, by their very definition and do rely on both the external referance to the community, and the listener being aware of the the stereotype. If the lisener is not aware of the stereotype, then the joke falls flat.

Whether it is in good taste to tell stereotypical jokes is another matter and whether one has to be part of the community to tell the joke is another matter.

The self contained joke , when told over and over and over and over, begins to define a stereotype - rather than as in stereotypical jokes, reflect the stereotype. Once this has occured it is dificult to distiguish the two.

Justforfun.

#98 Comment By Chairwoman On 18th October, 2006 @ 12:37 pm

Zirkona - Yes I find them offensive, and I think bananabrain has said that he does too.

#99 Comment By Jai On 18th October, 2006 @ 1:34 pm

Bananabrain,

I don’t want to turn this into some kind misguided “who’s been more victimised” contest, but for the record, historically Sikhs have also been persecuted terribly in India, often with horrific consequences. This happened considerably during the later Mughal era, and during the century immediately afterwards when there were further short-term invasions from the northwest. Both happened at the hands of Muslims and it included bounties being placed on Sikhs’ heads en masse.

More recently, you must also be aware of the events of 1984 in India, where massacres occurred at the hands of Hindus (for political reasons, not religious ones).

In both of these examples, “sardars” — Keshdhari Sikhs — were specifically targetted for the slaughter, although fortunately people did fight back (frequently to the death).

Bearing these events in mind, in a manner of speaking a Hindu or a Sikh telling caricature-perpetuating “sardar” jokes (despite the target’s protests) is like a modern-day German person telling jokes about Jews.

Following on from this:

=>” that’s why “bhangraman” and “skipinder the punjabi kangaroo” were funny”

They’re funny because Indian Punjabis do enjoy bhangra, and Punjabi Sikhs do frequently indulge in alcohol a little too much. As I said before, some jokes are funny because they’re accurate and based in reality.

Specifically targetting Keshdhari Sikhs as being stupid, uncouth, ignorant and so on is definitely not funny, because this stereotype has no basis in reality. And as Justforfun explained, repeatedly telling such “jokes” results in people actually believing the stereotypes to be accurate — which is exactly what has happened amonst large swathes of the Asian population worldwide. Again as I mentioned before: Satire is one thing, but deliberate fabricated propaganda is quite different and potentially very destructive.

#100 Comment By Jai On 18th October, 2006 @ 1:39 pm

Typo: “Bearing these events in mind, in a manner of speaking a Hindu or a Sikh telling caricature-perpetuating “sardar” jokes (despite the target’s protests) is like a modern-day German person telling jokes about Jews.”

Should say “Muslim”, not Sikh.

#101 Comment By Vikrant On 19th October, 2006 @ 4:29 pm

Jai though i empathise with you, but dont you think drawing comparisions to Nazi Germany is taking its a bit too far, given the close historical,spiritual and cultural links between Hinduism and Sikhism. For one, Congress are barely Hindus. The 1984 pogrom was orchestrated by thugs of very secular Congress, it had nothing to with Hindus as a community or Hinduism.

#102 Comment By Jai On 19th October, 2006 @ 4:37 pm

Vikrant,

It’s an exaggerated analogy but there are some similarities.

1. There are also close links between Judaism and Christianity.

2. The Nazis were nominally Christian (obviously a very warped version of the faith).

3. I did say in my previous post that the thugs committed those atrocities in India did so for political reasons, not specifically religious ones. The same applied to the Nazis.

It’s just an example anyway, we don’t need to get into a drawn out discussion about 1984 here.

#103 Comment By Vikrant On 19th October, 2006 @ 4:44 pm

Well i’m not really knowledgable about the Khalistani years in Punjab. Nor am I that interested really…

2. The Nazis were nominally Christian (obviously a very warped version of the faith).

Congress isnt even nominally Hindu.


Article printed from Pickled Politics: http://www.pickledpolitics.com

URL to article: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/836

URLs in this post:
[1] downright hilarious: http://
[2] http://amey.pickledpolitics.com/?p=39: http://amey.pickledpolitics.com/?p=39
[3] http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~olston/img/india_trucks.jpg: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~olston/img/india_trucks.jpg
[4] http://o3.indiatimes.com/sikhjokes/: http://o3.indiatimes.com/sikhjokes/
[5] http://www.sikhpoint.com/community/Articles/12OClockJoke.php: http://www.sikhpoint.com/community/Articles/12OClockJoke.php
[6] http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Maratha+Bugtis&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official: http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Maratha+Bugtis&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&
amp;ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

[7] http://www.dnaindia.com/dnaPrint.asp?NewsID=11563&CatID=2: http://www.dnaindia.com/dnaPrint.asp?NewsID=11563&CatID=2
[8] here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Morris