Sunny Hundal website



  • Family

    • Liberal Conspiracy
    • Sunny Hundal
  • Comrades

    • Andy Worthington
    • Angela Saini
    • Bartholomew’s notes
    • Bleeding Heart Show
    • Bloggerheads
    • Blood & Treasure
    • Campaign against Honour Killings
    • Cath Elliott
    • Chicken Yoghurt
    • Daily Mail Watch
    • Dave Hill
    • Dr. Mitu Khurana
    • Europhobia
    • Faith in Society
    • Feminism for non-lefties
    • Feministing
    • Gender Bytes
    • Harry’s Place
    • IKWRO
    • MediaWatchWatch
    • Ministry of Truth
    • Natalie Bennett
    • New Statesman blogs
    • Operation Black Vote
    • Our Kingdom
    • Robert Sharp
    • Rupa Huq
    • Shiraz Socialist
    • Shuggy’s Blog
    • Stumbling and Mumbling
    • Ta-Nehisi Coates
    • The F Word
    • Though Cowards Flinch
    • Tory Troll
    • UK Polling Report
  • In-laws

    • Aaron Heath
    • Douglas Clark's saloon
    • Earwicga
    • Get There Steppin’
    • Incurable Hippie
    • Neha Viswanathan
    • Power of Choice
    • Rita Banerji
    • Sarah
    • Sepia Mutiny
    • Sonia Faleiro
    • Southall Black Sisters
    • The Langar Hall
    • Turban Head

  • BNP members caught with “record haul” of explosive chemicals


    by Leon
    6th October, 2006 at 5:02 pm    

    Robert Cottage (49), of Talbot Street, Colne, and David Bolus Jackson (62), of Trent Road, Nelson, made separate appearances before the court charged with being in possession of an explosive substance for an unlawful purpose. The offences are under the Explosive Substances Act 1883.

    Both men were remanded in custody to appear at Burnley Crown Court on October 23rd. Cottage was arrested at his home on Thursday, while retired dentist Jackson was arrested in the Lancaster area on Friday, the same day as he left a dental practice in Grange-over-Sands.

    The 22 chemical components recovered by police are believed to be the largest haul ever found at a house in this country.

    Cottage is an ex-BNP member who stood as a candidate in the Pendle Council elections in May.

    Mrs Christiana Buchanan, who appeared for the prosecution in Jackson’s case, alleged the pair had “some kind of masterplan”.

    She said a search of Jackson’s home had uncovered rocket launchers, chemicals, BNP literature and a nuclear biological suit. [Via Pendle Today]

    One can’t help but wonder what the media coverage would have been like if this was two Asian men being charged with the equivalent evidence. Nice to see the hypocrisy of the media still in place…

    (Hat Tip: Urban75.com)

    ————————-
    Taking help from Test King prep dumps is the best thing ever happened as toefl online exam prep.
    The complications of ccnp exam can easily be overcome through the effective use of Test King Exam engine online.
    Made you feel backed in exam through the effective preparation of gmat that are available to you at P4S official site.
    Latest 640-722 exam from Pass 4Sures lab simulations and ccie - Wireless Associate - IUWNE study notes made you do study in a most reliable manner.
    P4S testing engine online is most commended option for ged practice test exam and enables you to do best in real exam.


                  Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: Race politics,The BNP






    168 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. Bomb plots, rocket launchers and a news blackout? - Voting TaKtiX

      [...] Um, rocket launchers and chemical suits? Leon, Jamie, Fridgemagnet and bat020 have more. [...]


    2. under|progress

      Chemicals, rocket launcher, master plan, man charged…

      No media headlines? Usual suspects totally silent? Why? How come? Oh that’s right. No Muslims involved. Robert Cottage, 49, of Talbot Street, Colne, appeared before Burnley magistrates charged with possession of an explosive substance [...] Cottage wa…


    3. Pickled Politics » BNP “chemical explosive plot” update

      [...] next 24 hours. [Via Rachel] Trackback link   |   Add to del.icio.us   |   Digg this   |   Filed under: TheBNP [...]




    1. raz — on 6th October, 2006 at 5:05 pm  

      DESPICABLE

    2. Amir — on 6th October, 2006 at 5:12 pm  

      It’s the privatisation of violence – proliferation of small arms and chemical weapons. It is one of the hallmarks of 4GW. This case rather reminds me of Aum Shinrikyo and Shoko Ashara.

    3. Vikrant — on 6th October, 2006 at 5:16 pm  

      Its not warfare for god’s sake… its just facists feeding of one another.

    4. ZinZin — on 6th October, 2006 at 5:18 pm  

      Fair point Leon.

      Islamists and White fascists attempting to outdo each other in the terrorism stakes.

    5. Amir — on 6th October, 2006 at 5:21 pm  

      No, it’s not warfare.

      But it’s the beginning a future kind of low-intensity conflict.

      Read this essay by Martin van Creveld.

      One of the finest essays I have read in a very long time.

    6. Nyrone — on 6th October, 2006 at 6:14 pm  

      “some kind of masterplan”?

      I wonder what these men were planning to do? I mean could it have been a Muslim stitch-up attempt? or an attack on minorities themselves, like a Mosque or Southall.

      Odd to think a dentist could have blown me up, I’ve always feared dentists…5,4….3 missing, space closed 2…

    7. Bert Preast — on 6th October, 2006 at 6:16 pm  

      I saw this yesterday. Just checked and still nothing on the BBC. Hardly local news, is it? What are they playing at? Come to think of it what are the police playing at? You don’t swoop on a terror cell on two different days so it seems they weren’t watching them, was it just a lucky break? Is Cottage still in the BNP or did they have a falling out when he failed to get elected? Anyone have more info?

      That said it may turn out to be nothing in the end, these two seem a bit old for this sort of caper unless they were just a safe house for storage. And I’m always suspicious when they report “rocket launchers” which subsequently turn out to be a bit of lead piping. Pipebombs are no joke, of course, but neither are they rocket launchers.

    8. g — on 6th October, 2006 at 9:21 pm  

      if muslims had done this every scabby tabloid’s fron page would have been this story. as its white working class blokes it just a lark isn’t it? they’ll probably get a suspended sentence

    9. Yakoub/Julaybib — on 6th October, 2006 at 9:26 pm  

      This is a bit more significant than a growbag in the garage or the odd laptop with a video suicide note on, isn’t it? Will the new BNP song book now include ‘Blackburn Uber Alles’? And does this mean aiport security will be profiling elderly men with nice looking teeth? That’s a good section of Hollywood about to be searched up the bum, then.

      Wasalaam

      TMA

    10. ZinZin — on 6th October, 2006 at 9:26 pm  

      g- Dentist is not a working class profession. The middle classes have their racists as well.

    11. Kulvinder — on 6th October, 2006 at 10:48 pm  

      Innocent until proven guilty, but i agree the lack of wider coverage is a tad odd.

    12. g — on 6th October, 2006 at 10:54 pm  

      oops zinzin never read that, and middle class racism is much more well hidden than working class racism

    13. Chairwoman — on 7th October, 2006 at 9:50 am  

      Surely this should be front page stuff.

      BTW I was horrified to be told by a friend that he had seen a man in Kentish Town wearing a T Shirt with the slogan ‘BNP. I support Israel’.

      As the old Jewish joke says ‘With friends like these, who needs enemies’.

    14. ZinZin — on 7th October, 2006 at 1:52 pm  

      Harry’s place have a good take on this issue.

    15. Lancaster UAF — on 7th October, 2006 at 2:25 pm  

      Someone on Stormfront pointed out that to have stood in May he would have had to be a full member of the BNP and that memberships don’t run out until December. That means he is STILL a member of the BNP! God knows where all this ex-BNP crap came from - though I could make a guess.

    16. BevanKieran — on 7th October, 2006 at 3:01 pm  

      Very serious. There is definitely a case for a group complaint to the BBC at the disparity in coverage over potential Islamist/White Dentist (OK…I hate dentists a little too much…White Nationalist) plots. I think the BBC are quite good at responding to criticism and they should reply.

      The offences are under the Explosive Substances Act 1883.

      That’s an odd date, either the bill need to be amended to cover changes in explosives etc, or I’m sure some decent enough legislation must have been passed in 1605.

    17. TottenhamLad — on 7th October, 2006 at 3:05 pm  

      Surely this should be front page stuff

      Like the trial of those who kidnapped the 15 year old Kriss Donald then tortured him, stabbed him, set him on fire, and left him naked to die - all because he was a Scottish boy.

      Like the muslims who did this this (from Laban Tall’s blog)

    18. http://modernityblog.blogspot.com/ — on 7th October, 2006 at 4:17 pm  

      Fascists, in various guises, have a long history of violence from 1920s Italy, to fire bombings in the US to nail bombing in Brixton, Brick Lane and Soho.

      Violence is part and parcel of the fascist belief system, even if groupings such as the BNP try to hide it, as best they might, under sharp suits and lies.

      Their problem is that every now and again one of their members reverts to “form” and let the cat out of the bag. Then the fascist leadership instantly try to distance themselves, if they can, in a tissue of lies.

    19. Anas — on 7th October, 2006 at 4:22 pm  

      BTW I was horrified to be told by a friend that he had seen a man in Kentish Town wearing a T Shirt with the slogan ‘BNP. I support Israel’.

      As the old Jewish joke says ‘With friends like these, who needs enemies’.

      Why would you be horrified that the BNP were supporting a racist aparthied state?

    20. Anas — on 7th October, 2006 at 4:39 pm  

      Tottenham Lad, I visited your blog, and inspected your mathematical analysis. However, whatever way you look at it, Black and Asians are proportionally speaking are far, far more likely to be victims of racially motivated crimes than white people are. This is because, the percentage of white people in the population is so much greater than the percentage of black people. So, even if the number of racial attacks by ethnic minorities against white people equalled the number of racial attacks by whites against ethnic minorities (which it isn’t even close to doing), you’d still be less likely to be attacked if you were black or asian than if you were white.

      Therefore, I’m always amazed when certain white people act like they’re under threat from black and asian racists. The threat is far smaller than for ethnic minorities.

    21. Anas — on 7th October, 2006 at 4:40 pm  

      Duh!

      *you’d still be MORE likely to be attacked if you were black or asian than if you were white

    22. Suzzy — on 7th October, 2006 at 4:45 pm  

      Anas, you are full of shit, and you are a racist yourself. You belong with that runt of muslims who feed directly into the hysteria of racist Nazi jew hatred, supping on the protocols of the elders of zion, sucking the teat of right wing propaganda, linking to nazi websites, racists like the MPACUK crowd, and holler just like the those ex skinheads who convert to Islam because they find a fertile home for their Jew hatred. Consumed in hatred of Israel you have the psychological profile of a shit-eating obsessive stalker. Suicide bomb yourself in a field you risible creep. It’s what you want to do, and what you want, embrace your destiny boy, embrace that semtex.

    23. Chairwoman — on 7th October, 2006 at 4:46 pm  

      Anas - Because I, as I’m sure you know, am Jewish, and though I consider some of Israel’s policies to be misguided, I don’t consider it to be an apartheid racist state.

    24. Katy Newton — on 7th October, 2006 at 4:59 pm  

      Nice one, Anas. Jewish commentator (and I know you know she’s Jewish) denounces the BNP and you immediately take a pop at Israel. Brilliant.

    25. Kulvinder — on 7th October, 2006 at 5:08 pm  

      Like the trial of those who kidnapped the 15 year old Kriss Donald then tortured him, stabbed him, set him on fire, and left him naked to die - all because he was a Scottish boy.

      That did get national attention at the time it occured, the difference here is between an event that just occured and a trial in progress. Unless they’re special (make very good copy) trials aren’t usually followed that closely by the media. Its easier to report on the conclusion of the proceedings.

    26. http://modernityblog.blogspot.com/ — on 7th October, 2006 at 5:39 pm  

      if you ponder what the likes of the BNP, Turner diaries fans and assorted nutjobs **really** want, it ain’t hard to see:

      the BNP & co want “racial” war and conflict

      They will thrive in such an environment, also it plays up to their paranoid view of the world as being a constant struggle between “races” (as Hitler believed), so anyone half way sensible should AVOID stirring up racial hatred (whatever groups are concerned) or they’ll playing into the BNP’s hands

      Unless, of course, they actually want to indirectly help the BNP, that is?

    27. Sunny — on 7th October, 2006 at 6:08 pm  

      Why would you be horrified that the BNP were supporting a racist aparthied state?

      Anas: Is that more or less racist than, say, most of “Muslim countries” that deny equal religious rights to minorities, constantly harass minority groups and let racism towards people from South Asian countries (especially in the Middle East) fester?

    28. j0nz — on 7th October, 2006 at 7:08 pm  

      An amazing amount of inconsistency in the way the media report things.

      Though I haven’t heard any of the usual spiel about innocent until proven guilty from commentors here.

      Tottenham lad is correct in his reference to Kris Donald. Imagine he’d have been a young black lad, and was tortured and set on fire by white youths?

      Therefore, I’m always amazed when certain white people act like they’re under threat from black and asian racists. The threat is far smaller than for ethnic minorities.

      It’s not a competition, Anas ;)

      There’s a racists in every race.

    29. Al-Hack — on 7th October, 2006 at 7:14 pm  

      J0nz doesn’t apply that innocent until proven guilty spiel to Muslims much, does he? What’s this we see, more BNP apologetics out of the woodwork? What does Kriss McDonald’s horrible death go to do with anything? You’re using him as a political football.

    30. j0nz — on 7th October, 2006 at 7:16 pm  

      Islamists and fascists. Peas. Pod.

      It is interesting though, for me at least, that a number of former fascists have converted to Islam. Like this chap, “Mohammed Islam” (could get any more islamic sounding name?!) who used to be in the BNP

      http://www.easterneyeonline.co.uk/iframe_story.asp?NID=1851

    31. j0nz — on 7th October, 2006 at 7:23 pm  

      Al-Hack, not too bad thanks. And you?

    32. bikhair aka taqiyyah — on 7th October, 2006 at 8:12 pm  

      jonz,

      Most fascist dont convert to Islam and far more fascist would say that they were christian or atleast christian in the cultural sense. In the U.S.A lots of black men in prison convert to Islam for a whole host of reasons. Some stay Muslim when they leave prison others dont. The Nation of Islam is huge in prison and has been credited with getting lots of black men to go straight.

      Now you say Islamist and facist are the same then you say that a number of former fascist convert to Islam. Does that mean that converting to Islam after having been a fascist mean you will become in Islamist? Islamist, Muslim peas in the pod? Its only a natural progression of your theory it would seem. Anyway stop being an idiot.

      Jesus appealed to and hung out with the worst of his society and often critized those who would be considered the cream of the crop like the lawyers, the tax collectors, the rabbis, the judges, the politicians etc.

      I dont mind who my religion appeals to so long as they remain on the true path. Remember Shaitian was supposed to be a good Muslim but rebelled against Allah’s command and no one is worse then him.

      Your arguments are lame, youve put me to sleep.

    33. bikhair aka taqiyyah — on 7th October, 2006 at 8:21 pm  

      Jonz,

      So I guess the argument that you were trying to make was that sense some fascist convert to Islam, Islam must be fascist? Youre stupid. Do you know what kinds of people Jesus converted?

      Anyway this Muhammed Islam doesnt sound like a bad chap.

      “The 42-year-old is now looking ahead to a career in social work and is hoping to start his degree in September 2005. Once qualified, he wants to focus on the Muslim community and focus on problems that community leaders are not aware of or are simply ignoring.”

      Perhaps all BNP members should convert to Islam so they can go to school, get a degree, and become social workers.

    34. Kulvinder — on 7th October, 2006 at 8:55 pm  

      Though I haven’t heard any of the usual spiel about innocent until proven guilty from commentors here.

      Innocent until proven guilty, but i agree the lack of wider coverage is a tad odd.

    35. Bobby Dazzler. — on 8th October, 2006 at 12:03 am  

      ‘So I guess the argument that you were trying to make was that sense some fascist convert to Islam, Islam must be fascist? ‘

      Erm………anti-semitic, homophobic, sexist, inward looking, anti-democratic and thats just the Muslim Council of Britian.

      Yes Islam is fascist!!!

      It’s a doctrine that controls every aspect of a muslims life and encourages them to rail against anything that can be conceived as anti-islam.

      It’s not the religion in the UK that offends me though, it is the serious crimes perpetrated by people of this faith that the authorities and media try to keep a lid on, Kris Donald being a prime example, that causes the biggest concern.

      A 15 year old white boy, kidnapped, beaten up, castrated, has his eyes gauged out, repeatedly stabbed and then set on fire whilst still alive!!!! If he was black or asian this would still be talked about in 50 years, but in todays world of lies and half truths, most white people when asked about Kris Donald haven’t got a clue who he is. The gang responsible by the way were apparently heavily involved in the heroin trade in the area, delighful young men!!!

      This should be front page news around the world, not just in this country, but yet again it’s swept under the carpet whilst the biggest story in this country, is that a member of the cabinet has expressed a personal opinion regarding the dress adopted by certain members of the muslim community.

      A couple of cranks with some fertilizer compared to the craziness of Islamists, lol, give me a break.

      When will someone finally admit that allowing these people, who so fervently follow completely alien traditions to western europeans, was a complete mistake and that a huge swathe of social ills can layed squarely at the door of these aliens in our corner of the world.

    36. TottenhamLad — on 8th October, 2006 at 12:47 am  

      Well said Bobby.

      Trouble is that most of those who frequent, and write for, this blog are still praying at the altar of St Stephen Lawrence and St Anthony Walker.

      They don’t care about Kriss Donald, just another ‘white boy’ murdered by some ethnic-immigrants.

      Come on Sunny, this is your blog, you write for CIF, get your mates at the Guardian to give Kriss Donald’s murder the same prominence as St Stephen Lawrence and St Anthony Walker.

      Be a MAN - if you have any integrity…

    37. bikhair aka taqiyyah — on 8th October, 2006 at 5:08 am  

      Bobby Dazzler,

      “When will someone finally admit that allowing these people, who so fervently follow completely alien traditions to western europeans…”

      “…anti-semitic, homophobic, sexist, inward looking, anti-democratic…”

      I’d say the above were traditions of Western Europeans wouldnt you? How soon you have forgotten.

      I didnt know the above could be viewed as fascistic. I mean there are all kinds of semtic, homosexual, and outward looking fascist. Fascism has a defintion you know and none of the above are it. Now I understand that it is in style to call someone, Islam, or Muslim fascist but what exactly is fascism and waht exactly is Islam? It certainly isnt a gang of heroin dealers. YOu know thats capital punishment in some Muslim countries. How contradictory.

      Youre a waste. Religion, any religion is supposed to control, or rather influence you every day life similar to basic human nature.

      Lastly something tells me that had Kriss Donald not been killed by Muslims or ethnic minorities, I dont think you’d care too much about him either.

      Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha….

    38. Bert Preast — on 8th October, 2006 at 12:09 pm  

      The MSM picks the story up at last:

      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2394446,00.html

      I’ll quote the entire story:

      “BNP link to explosives charges
      Two men linked to the British National party have been charged with possessing chemical explosives after raids on their homes in Lancashire. Robert Cottage, 49, of Colne, and David Jackson, a dentist, of Nelson, have been charged with possession of an explosive substance for an unlawful purpose. Both were remanded in custody”

      And er, that’s it.

    39. Joe — on 8th October, 2006 at 12:39 pm  

      Are Cottage and Jackson Christians, that’s what I want to know?

    40. Bobby Dazzler. — on 8th October, 2006 at 3:53 pm  

      In response to bikhair aka taqiyyah, yes, without doubt the aforementioned anti-social attitudes were generally adopted by large swathes of European people, but here’s the clincher.
      European people, in fact the west in general, has the ability to change it’s views in respect of social differences, Islam is completely incapable of this.

      The syllabus in the Madras’ of Pakistan has not changed a syllable of it’s doctrine in over 1000 years. They are taught rabid anti-Semitic (a contradiction in terms I know as Arabs are not necessarily Jewish), homophobic, anti-christian and sexist views, which are all being regurgitated at mosques all over the world.

      What concerns me most about your ill thought out post is the statement,

      ‘any religion is supposed to control’.

      No it’s not!!! Religion is meant to influence it’s followers and offer a good set of moral standards by which to lead your lives.

      In my humble opinion, a religion that promises 72 virgins for blowing yourself up is far from moral, in fact it’s downright dangerous !!!

    41. Bobby Dazzler. — on 8th October, 2006 at 3:57 pm  

      By the way, Facism is authoritarian, nationalist, militarist, and anti-liberalism, an apt description of Islam I think you’ll agree.

    42. sonofajoiner — on 8th October, 2006 at 3:58 pm  

      “In my humble opinion, a religion that promises 72 virgins for blowing yourself up is far from moral, in fact it’s downright dangerous !!!”

      Good luck finding the part of the koran that specifically recommends that Booby.

    43. Sunny — on 8th October, 2006 at 4:21 pm  

      European people, in fact the west in general, has the ability to change it’s views in respect of social differences, Islam is completely incapable of this.

      How many people voted BNP or support the party again? Do you want to examine those assumptions again Booby?

    44. ZinZin — on 8th October, 2006 at 4:49 pm  

      How many people voted BNP or support the party again? Do you want to examine those assumptions again Booby?

      Do provide stats Sunny. BNP support has not translated into anything more than a handful of council seats. In comparison to France and mainland Europe support for fascism in Britain peaked at 2% in the 1970s. When Nick Griffin is leader of the opposition i will take such views seriously.

      Respect (SWP/MAB) have won one seat. Islamic fundamentalism has a parliamentary seat unlike white fascism.

    45. Kulvinder — on 8th October, 2006 at 7:26 pm  

      When will someone finally admit that allowing these people, who so fervently follow completely alien traditions to western europeans, was a complete mistake and that a huge swathe of social ills can layed squarely at the door of these aliens in our corner of the world.

      … but here’s the clincher.
      European people, in fact the west in general, has the ability to change it’s views in respect of social differences,

      Laughing online.

    46. Laban — on 8th October, 2006 at 8:17 pm  

      I must admit I’m surprised thios isn’t all over the BBC and Guardian. Hats off to U75 for spotting it.

      (mind you I’d believe anything of dentists) …

    47. raz — on 8th October, 2006 at 8:38 pm  

      “The syllabus in the Madras’ of Pakistan has not changed a syllable of it’s doctrine in over 1000 years”

      Huh? There weren’t any fundamentalist madrassas in Pakistan before 1979 and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. So what on earth are you talking about?

    48. Vikrant — on 8th October, 2006 at 8:59 pm  

      The syllabus in the Madras’ of Pakistan has not changed a syllable of it’s doctrine in over 1000 years. They are taught rabid anti-Semitic (a contradiction in terms I know as Arabs are not necessarily Jewish), homophobic, anti-christian and sexist views, which are all being regurgitated at mosques all over the world.

      Atleast spell it correctly… c’mon Madras is an Indian city, methinks its madrassas you are looking for… unless ofcourse those unimaginative Paks are trying to pawn of another Indian name as their own creation…

      They are taught rabid anti-Semitic

      Wonder why in region where Jews are nearly non-existent. Moreover Paks are not Arabs.

      homophobic, anti-christian and sexist views, which are all being regurgitated at mosques all over the world.

      Replace anti-christian with muslim and mosques with bible belt (or even better… Club 700)…

      Lastly, Only I here have the privelege of insulting Pakistan… Scumbag.

    49. Bobby Dazzler. — on 8th October, 2006 at 9:02 pm  

      lol……………debate the semantics all you like. Please give me the name of British based Iman that teaches tolerance of homosexuals and I’ll hold his hand while we visit the stalls at next years Gay Pride festival in Birmingham.

      The rise of the BNP is a direct result of the ever imposing threat of Islam in the west. My biggest concern is that the less educated will lump all asian people in the same category, and that would be a travesty.

      Islam = Intolerance.

    50. raz — on 8th October, 2006 at 9:03 pm  

      “Lastly, Only I here have the privelege of insulting Pakistan… Scumbag”

      :)

    51. Bobby Dazzler. — on 8th October, 2006 at 9:09 pm  

      Good point about the post 79 influence by the way, the Saudis have a lot to answer for. But never the less, Islam has always been backward and in the 21st century is stuck somewhere between the years 1050 and 1200.

      Please forward the names of these tolerant Imans asap.

      Kind Regards,

      Bob.

    52. Kulvinder — on 8th October, 2006 at 9:23 pm  

      Please give me the name of British based Iman that teaches tolerance of homosexuals and I’ll hold his hand while we visit the stalls at next years Gay Pride festival in Birmingham.

      If you’re preaching tolerance you’d hold the hand of an imam regardless of whether they were homophobic or not; as it is you’re doing little more than swapping one form of bigotry for another.

    53. Sunny — on 8th October, 2006 at 10:18 pm  

      debate the semantics all you like.

      We’re only debating semantics because you’re showing just the kind of ignorance and stupidity that the people you claim to hate show. Over on Osama Saeed’s website some dimwit called Sadat thinks all white people are engaging in a war against Islam and apparently all “pig-eaters” are mentally dysfunctional or whatever. Funny, you don’t sound any dissimilar. It’s better you buzz off before you make an eve bigger spectacle of yourself with ignorance.

      The rise of the BNP is a direct result of the ever imposing threat of Islam in the west.

      Rubbish, the BNP/NF were bigger during the early 80s when most British didn’t even know there were Muslims living amongst them.

      Zinzin: around 800,000 voted for them last time, and I suspect many more are partial to them. That’s probably more than Britain’s entire Muslim population. And having one MP does not compare to the dozens of BNP councillors when it comes to local issues. You’re merely playing down the BNP’s prevalence.

    54. Jagdeep — on 8th October, 2006 at 11:27 pm  

      It would be quite good fun to watch him holding the hand of an imam though Kulvinder - we could use it as a Benneton advert or something.

    55. ZinZin — on 8th October, 2006 at 11:39 pm  

      BNP councillors are a joke, Sunny they can’t follow or understand voting procedures. Those who vote for them would be amazed at the poor quality of BNP candidates. They are sometimes petty criminals and their stupidity and poor concentration spans leads them to vote against or abstain against their own proposals. In short they are a joke unlike their european counterparts.

      The far right vote was taken by Thatcher in 1979 due to her swamping comments. In the 1980s the Far right fragmented and the BNP only came to prominence in the 1990s after winning a council seat in Tower Hamlets.

      In short i don’t take the BNP seriously as a political force.

    56. Bobby Dazzler. — on 8th October, 2006 at 11:39 pm  

      lol……..poor answers to very relative points.
      Find this elusive iman, and I’ll hold his hand at the Pride festival. Only problem is, he doesn’t exist.

      One quick question, can anybody explain to me why British people should even be discussing the intricicies of Islamic worship?? Why should we even have to tolerate the beliefs of people that have been at war with western Europe for over a 1000 years???

      They are not wanted, are not welcome and no amount of pandering by misguided liberal politicians will ever change that fact.

      Jagdeep, I’d film that advert tomorrow if you could find this elusive iman, I will not hold my breath though.

      Peace and prosperity to all,

      Bob.

    57. Chris Stiles — on 8th October, 2006 at 11:50 pm  

      It would be an interesting exercise if a PPer - preferably in Reid’s constituency wrote to him and asked is his opinion.

      For extra marks you could enquire whether he believes torture should be used in this particular case.

    58. Katy Newton — on 8th October, 2006 at 11:54 pm  

      Bob, Bob, Bob. Islam has not been at war with Western Europe for over 1000 years. The idea that either “Islam” or “Western Europe” existed as ideologically united blocks of like-minded people with lots in common at any point over the last 1000 years is entirely false, as you would know if you had actually gone off and, like, read some history instead of trotting out this BNP-style claptrap.

      Britain has had far more grief from France, Spain, and Germany, to name but three, than it did from any Islamic nation, right from the Norman Conquest. The only trouble Britain might have been said to have had with Arabs was during the Crusades, you know, when British monarchs decided that charging off to the Middle East to slaughter Arabs was just what God wanted. Catholicism and Protestantism were each other’s and every other minorities’ worst enemy until comparatively recently.

      In fact relations between Britain and most of the Arab nations have been pretty positive right up until the end of the last century. If we must be prejudiced, let’s at least try to be accurate, eh?

    59. Bobby Dazzler. — on 9th October, 2006 at 6:02 am  

      Your ignoranace of history is amazing. How dare you tell me to read a history book when your facts are so wildly incorrect.

      I suggest you read about a Frankish king called Charles Martel, who beat the islamic barbarians back through modern France and Spain into North Africa after the battle of Tours in 732, a battle which is widely accepted by historians as saving Europe from complete islamification.

      So Katy, may I suggest that you, ‘read some history’, instead of reeling off your PC nonsense about us all geting along fine untill recent decades. Islamm has been at war with the west for over 1000 years, a fact that maybe your liberal attitude finds hard to accept, but non the less, historical fact.

      Toodle pip,

      Bob.

    60. Kulvinder — on 9th October, 2006 at 10:19 am  

      Islamm has been at war with the west for over 1000 years, a fact that maybe your liberal attitude finds hard to accept, but non the less, historical fact.

      How are you defining west?

    61. Refresh — on 9th October, 2006 at 10:35 am  

      “How are you defining west?”

      As divisively as possible.

    62. soru — on 9th October, 2006 at 10:47 am  

      Islamm has been at war with the west for over 1000 years

      You can track which countries won which wars by looking at on which side of the road people drive, mobile phone and electrical standards, sports played, and so on.

      That doesn’t mean the history of the last 1000 years is best read as a war between those things.

    63. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 11:35 am  

      Bobby Dazzler you just got bitchslapped and owned by Katy Newton. Excellent post Katy! Beware Bobby, idiots and ignoramuses and BNP gimps tend to get unravelled here, usually by feisty women too.

    64. Refresh — on 9th October, 2006 at 12:12 pm  

      Bobby, I believe Elizabeth I secretly approached muslim forces to assist in her disagreement with Spain.

    65. Katy Newton — on 9th October, 2006 at 1:10 pm  

      And there I was thinking I was towards the right of the PP spectrum :D

    66. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 1:23 pm  

      “The 22 chemical components recovered by police are believed to be the largest haul ever found at a house in this country.”

      Can someone please, pleeeease tell me exactly what those people that got arrested for ‘planning mass murder in the skies’ got done for? I swear I haven’t seen diddley squat in the papers since…

    67. Refresh — on 9th October, 2006 at 2:03 pm  

      Same question about those in Canada?

    68. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 2:08 pm  

      Kismet - I think the phrase is ‘sub judice’. Ask the missus.

    69. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 2:14 pm  

      Oh so that’s like innocent until proven guilty but the other way round? Also a little bit like holding someone without a trial? And a wee bit like stop talking about something and people might forget?

      Cool. I’m going to use the sub judice thing next time I imprison a dwarf to be my gimp

      Thanks for the tip chairy xX

    70. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 2:40 pm  

      No that’s like we can’t print anything about it till it’s before a judge.

    71. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:04 pm  

      Oh.

    72. Anas — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:18 pm  

      Anas: Is that more or less racist than, say, most of “Muslim countries” that deny equal religious rights to minorities, constantly harass minority groups and let racism towards people from South Asian countries (especially in the Middle East) fester?

      In principle they’re the same, though I doubt any Muslim country treats its minorities as badly as Israel treats and has treated the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, which let me remind you is illegally occupied — though maybe Morocco’s treatment of the Western Sahara might qualify. In any case it’s irrelevant since I made the point in direct reponse to Chairwoman’s hypocritical comment which I couldn’t let pass from a supporter of Israel. And Katy, I only took a pop at Israel because Chairwoman seemed to suggest that there was something incongruous about a racist BNP member supporting that racist apartheid state; it’s not like I’m in the habit of bringing up Israel in every single discussion. Check out this guardian article to see what I mean:
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1703245,00.html

      Any state that discriminates amongst its citizens on the basis of religion or ethnicity is a racist state, and I don’t think any Israeli or supporter of Israel denies that discimination is enshrined in Israeli law (for example non-Jews aren’t allowed to buy land in certain areas), and I’m not even going to start on the Aparthied wall. Granted if I was a supporter of Saudi Arabia, or any other Muslim state that enshrines religious discrimination in law you would have a point, but I don’t.

    73. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:32 pm  

      “I doubt any Muslim country treats its minorities as badly as Israel treats and has treated the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza”

      I usually agree with you Anas, but Muslim countries treat their minorities really, really badly dude

    74. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:33 pm  

      (and unlike Israel & palestine, usually unprovoked)

    75. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:40 pm  

      Anas - Israel is not the only country that has a wall. I believe Islamic Saudi Arabia has one too, but I don’t see you railing against it, even though you say you are no Saudi supporter.

      The BNP hates Jews as much as you do. Therefore it is incongruous to find supporter wearing a T shirt supporting Israel. Anybody who wants the destruction of the State of Israel is, in real terms, anti-Jewish, whagtever pc phrase they wrap it up in.

      During the time our holy site, the Western Wall was in Muslim hands no Jew was allowed to visit it, let alone pray there. I believe Friday prayers are still attended by a large and enthusiastic congregation at the Dome of the Rock.

      Sorry Anas, there’s no moral high ground to be had here. And please don’t say Israel strong, Islam weak. I’m not by any means a maths wizard, but I still think that numerous Muslim nations containing well over a billion people, compared with one nation the size of Wales containing round about seven million people max, gives Islam the upper hand.

      I now await the customary onslaught.

    76. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:55 pm  

      Hey Chairy, if Anas slaughters you, will you be halal or kosher? Either way, I’d like to eat you

    77. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:58 pm  

      Anas is a monomaniac.

      Chairwoman you’re a supafly aunty, always strong and hustling (you may be wondering why I’m talking like Shaft, it’s because I was listening to Isaac Hayes ‘Hot Buttered Soul’ on my i-pod at lunchtime, and I feel like a brother, my beautiful African sister, I mean, North London Jewish Aunty)

    78. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:59 pm  

      Muslim cannibal eats Jewish lady for Ramadan!

    79. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 3:59 pm  

      Ooh just looked up monomaniac

      What a lovely new word

      Cheers Jagdeep

    80. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:05 pm  

      No problem Kismet, here are a few more I like:

      *Euphonious

      *Pellucid

      *Congeries

      *Atrabilious

      *Paanchod

      (final one is Punjabi)

    81. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:08 pm  

      Jagdeep - Now I’ve got the ‘Shaft’ theme running through my head!

    82. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:11 pm  

      I’ve got Roget screaming dunce in mine :(

    83. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:12 pm  

      Chairwoman, get a copy of this CD if you can:

      Hot Buttered Soul

      It’s absolutely bloody brilliant - classic 1970′s soul album - only four tracks on it the longest one goes on for about 20 minutes!

    84. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:14 pm  

      Oh, just so we don’t get told off for derailing this thread, I think that Isaac Hayes would also agree that the BNP stink too!

    85. Anas — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:19 pm  

      I believe Islamic Saudi Arabia has one too, but I don’t see you railing against it

      I have criticised Saudi previously on PP, or to be more exact, I’ve criticised our government for supplying the regime with arms. I know about the bans on building Churches, and the repression of Shia minorities. I know about the discrimination against Christians and Shias in Pakistan, the country of my parents. Don’t worry.

      The BNP hates Jews as much as you do

      Chairwoman, that is a filthy and disgusting slander. I can’t believe you would sink that low. Quote me one thing I’ve written that demonstrates that I hate jews, because I cannot let a slur like that pass without comment.

      Sadly, it’s common practice to brand any critic of Israel’s racist and murderous policies an anti-Semite, even jews like Norman Finkelstein or Noam Chomsky. But it’s starting to sound more and more ridiculous even to supporters of Israel.

      BTW, I have never called for the destruction of Israel, nor would I, on the same basis that I do not support Israel’s ongoing destruction of any chances for a viable Palestinian state, and the murder and imprisonment of its people. A policy, which since you seem to implicitly support it, must make you a racist against arabs.

      As for there being no “moral high ground”, I’m afraid for you there is. Israel is illegally occupying the West Bank, and has turned Gaza into an open air prison, it has removed Palestine from off the map. It has established settlements for the purpose of making it impossible for there ever to be a Palestinian state.

      It has constructed a wall to separate itself from Palestine, but also to protect illegal settlements, which as the World Court ruled is a war crime.

      Israel has the world’s fourth largest army (thanks to $3 billion dollars in aid from the US without whose complicity it could achieve nothing), whose weight it’s bringing to bear on a dispossessed helpless people who have no protection against it, and who are being subjected to the tyranny of an occupier they cannot use force to remove. An occupier which is systematically destroying all administrative institutions, which has the freedom to imprison elected officials, impose curfews, bulldoze houses, use collective punishment, steal land and resources.

      No help, apart from some charity aid, from the world’s 1 billion Muslims, barely any from the international community, or the UN which cannot act because of the US’ power of veto. I’ve read BNP/facist magazines in which they’ve praised nationalism across the world, and allied themselves with the Hindutva movement and the right wing zionist Movement. Didn’t

      And yet, even with the support of the world’s only superpower, the world’s fourth largest army, the inability of the rest of the world to act on the illegal occupation, you refuse to grant the Palestinians enough humanity to see them as victims. Like I say, that makes you the racist.

      As for the BNP, their main target now is Muslims, which is why they’ve made friendly gestures towards Sikh and Hindu leaders (and Jews), and why they had a Sikh on one of their election broadcasts. I don’t doubt that in any other circumstance they would be pushing for the expulsion of Sikhs and Hindus from this country too. Le Pen in France attracted Jewish support too, in his campaign against the Islamic threat. Didn’t the Stern gang try and hook up with the Nazis in 1940?

      Onslaught over.

    86. Anas — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:29 pm  

      oops, I should stop posting stuff I haven’t read over. Disregard the sentence “I’ve read BNP/facist magazines in which they’ve praised nationalism across the world, and allied themselves with the Hindutva movement and the right wing zionist Movement. Didn’t” at the end of the third from last para.

    87. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:40 pm  

      MONOMANIAC

    88. Katy Newton — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:48 pm  

      Who refused to say that the Palestinians are victims? We just refused to say that the Palestinians were the only victims in the world, or that they suffered more than any non-Muslim in a Muslim country. You’re a disgrace, Anas. The Chairwoman denounced the BNP and you’ve managed to make her a racist for it. Shame on you. How are you any better than the “racist, apartheid state of Israel” that you describe, with your callous indifference to the human rights abuses perpetrated against non-Muslims in the Middle East?

    89. ZinZin — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:54 pm  

      Anas,
      The mask slips.
      oops, I should stop posting stuff I haven’t read over. Disregard the sentence “I’ve read BNP/facist magazines in which they’ve praised nationalism across the world, and allied themselves with the Hindutva movement and the right wing zionist Movement. Didn’t” at the end of the third from last para.

      Chomsky and Finkelstein are called self-hating Jews for the record.
      This thread has gone dramaticaly off subject.

      SHAFT!

    90. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 4:57 pm  

      My dad went to hajj and saw a frail old woman have her hands chopped off in the streets for taking a date of a stall

      Anyone who says Muslim nations are more victims than they are hardcore cunts can go spin

    91. Kulvinder — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:11 pm  

      Anybody who wants the destruction of the State of Israel is, in real terms, anti-Jewish, whagtever pc phrase they wrap it up in.

      Out of curiosity do you mean that only in the literal ‘israel ceases to exist because of war sense’ or more broadly in its existence as the jewish state

    92. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:13 pm  

      Anas - Truly the Palestinians are victims. They are indeed the uber-victims. Apart from being victims of Israel, for in some circumstances I think they are, they are also victims of Jordan, victims of Lebanon, victims of Egypt, victims of Iran, victims of Syria, victims of the UN who has a special resolution that actively prevents their conditions being improved, and finally, of course, victims of their leaders who don’t understand that negotiation and compromise means both sides don’t achieve all their aims.

      It has been my opinion for many years, however, that peace will never break out because it suits the rest of the world to keep the sore festering.

      I call you an antisemite, although I am sure you aren’t in day-to-day life, because you are so vitriolic against Israel.

      By the way, I think you are right to support Palestine, in fact I think it is your duty. They are your co-religionists and you owe them loyalty. I don’t know, or want to know, what you say in private, in public you support your team. This is something Chomsky and Finklestein, for all their intellect haven’t learned. All I complain about is your intemperate words, which just provoke. You don’t make your arguement, you just cause an arguement.

      That’s all I’m saying here, I don’t want to bring the thread into disrepute.

    93. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:15 pm  

      Kulvinder - More broadly.

    94. Sid — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:20 pm  

      The binary nature of this argument is so boring.

      I’m a Muslim who hates the way Islamic nations, and in particular, Arab nations treats its minorities. I’m a self-hating Muslim.

      I’m a Muslim who hates the way Israel treats its minorities and in particular the mini Apartheid state in its backyard. I’m an anti-Semite.

      yawn.

    95. ZinZin — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:24 pm  

      To quote Larry David; “I hate myself but it has nothing to do with being Jewish”

    96. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:25 pm  

      Absolutely.

    97. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:29 pm  

      I love Israel.

      +++

      I feel very Jewish these days. I watched Small Time Crooks the Woody Allen film over the weekend that I had recorded from Film 4 and spent the rest of the day wishing I was a Jewish New Yorker. Then when I listened to Isaac Hayes today i wished I was an African America soul brother.

      Time to go home I think.

      And the BNP stinks!

    98. Sid — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:32 pm  

      I love Larry David.

    99. Sunny — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:38 pm  

      Anas, you forgot to mention how Pakistani groups try and force Hindu and Sikh citizens to convert, and how the Ahmadiya community is also victimised.

      I’m all for criticising racist states but let’s try and be more consistent eh?

    100. Sid — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:38 pm  

      Jagdeep, sounds like you have Zelig’s Syndrome. Zelig is my favourite Woody Allen film of all time.

    101. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:40 pm  

      I like manhattan because I’m a soppy git and love & hate because it reminds me crap, easy jokes are still funny

    102. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:40 pm  

      Jagdeep - Best Jewish films, Radio Days and Brighton Beach Memoirs

    103. Sunny — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:57 pm  

      Can we stick to criticising the BNP instead of learning about Kismet’s fave films? :|

    104. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:57 pm  

      Don’t forget Fiddler on the roof, ben-hur, ten commandments, blazing saddles, chariots of fire, oliver, cabaret and them ones with barbara streisand

    105. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 5:59 pm  

      I can’t believe I just got the stick for that. I was framed.

      Anyhoo, great BNP type movies: Made in england with tim roth and romper stomper with russell crowe are great

      Back to the thread kids

    106. Kulvinder — on 9th October, 2006 at 6:03 pm  

      Kulvinder - More broadly.

      Then im ‘anti-jewish’ :(

      as well as anti-english and anti-pakistani, i also don’t support the creation of khalistan (a sikh state) let alone its continual everlasting existence as the sikh state.

      Im an antijewishantipakistaniantienglishsikh english sikh :(

      I believe in the right to self determination for every group of people, so although i don’t support the violent overthrow of israel as it is; neither do i have any problem with it changing unrecognisably over time. As long as thats what the people living within it want - regardless of their ethnicity. The united kingdom is the anglican state on earth, the queen is the head of the church and the head of state; as ordained by god. Everything she has is her right under god (catholics since the reformation and henry viii have probably smirked at the irony).

      The problem comes when anglicans, or even protestants aren’t the majority in the country anymore and aren’t representative of what the country is. Thats why i think prince charles taking the step of defending faith instead of the faith is fairly crucial. Britain will change in the future, not only is an increasing sense of secularism likely but immigration from within the eu will lead to a sharp increase in the catholic population. Any attempt to keep the status quo and maintain britain as it was envisaged by henry viii will inevitably need some form of authoritarianism and racial or ethnic laws. I don’t believe that will happen because the UK has been more willing to adapt, change and deal with an evolving world than almost any other nation.

      If you believe that israel, and the territory that encompasses israel has to be kept as the jewish state you have to support racial and/or ethnic laws that favour jews above all others regardless of what the demographics of the israel happen to be at the time. It would be impossible to call that anything other than apartheid.

      For what its worth i couldn’t care less what religious ideology a nation was formed under (israel and pakistan were the only nations formed predominantly for religious ideologies in the 20th century and will almost certainly be the last). Im much more interested in how a nation adapts to the future.

      If israel as the jewish state, pakistan as the muslim state, or britian as the defacto anglican state means little more than an anachronism for the future, well ok. Call them what you want as long as the people within them are happy. But if you mean more…and as awkward as this is to point out, the bnp only want to keep britain as it always has been.

    107. Anas — on 9th October, 2006 at 6:05 pm  

      I’m going to try and appear a little more calm than I have in my last few posts. I admit to being a bit impetuous when posting, and also to not properly reading over what I write. So, take a deep breath, aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

      How are you any better than the “racist, apartheid state of Israel” that you describe, with your callous indifference to the human rights abuses perpetrated against non-Muslims in the Middle East?
      Katy, it says on Chairwoman’s site that she’s your mum. So, it’s quite likely you’ll be biased in her favour. But just let me make a few points, (clearly and calmly of course):

      Who refused to say that the Palestinians are victims?

      The point I was trying to make when I said that related to accusations your mother made against me, namely that I was anti-semitic and that I was advocating the destruction of Israel, when I’ve said no such things in this forum. I deduced she must have attributed these positions to me on the basis that of what she thought were my views, what she thought I meant implicitly (probably based on her stereotypical notions of the anti-semitism of critics of Israel). So, I thought I should make a similar accusation based not on what was she said, but what I thought was implied — on a tit for tat basis. I’m immature like that. Though I believe I’m a lot more justified in my words.

      How are you any better than the “racist, apartheid state of Israel” that you describe, with your callous indifference to the human rights abuses perpetrated against non-Muslims in the Middle East?
      Again, you didn’t read my previous post. I’ve condemned the British for selling arms and military equipment to Saudi Arabia, and denounced the Saudi regime on PP, how is that callous indifference? I challenge you to find statements where I’ve shown this callousness towards abuses against non-Muslims in the Muslim World. You assume it because I haven’t devoted as many words to this issue as I have to criticising Israel (though again, since I’m a citizen of a state the openly supports Israel I have a responsibility to speak out). By this reasoning, your mother, a supporter of Israel who has consistently neglected Palestinian suffering (except when faced with the accusation), must be indifferent to it.

      Anas, you forgot to mention how Pakistani groups try and force Hindu and Sikh citizens to convert, and how the Ahmadiya community is also victimised.

      I’m all for criticising racist states but let’s try and be more consistent eh?

      Yes, Sunny, but as far as I’m aware it’s not enshrined in law, at least not to the extent that it is in Israel. Also, I don’t think Pakistan is illegally occupying another country and attempting to ethnically cleanse it.

      Anas - Truly the Palestinians are victims. They are indeed the uber-victims. Apart from being victims of Israel, for in some circumstances I think they are, they are also victims of Jordan, victims of Lebanon, victims of Egypt, victims of Iran, victims of Syria, victims of the UN who has a special resolution that actively prevents their conditions being improved, and finally, of course, victims of their leaders who don’t understand that negotiation and compromise means both sides don’t achieve all their aims.

      Yes, I agree with some of that, except the last statement. But, the problem is that I’m not faced with defenders of wrongs against Palestinian here who are biased in favour of Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, etc, I’m faced with your apologetics and you seem to be a pro-Israeli defender of wrongs against Palestinians. Additionally I’d defy anyone to prove to me that anyone has done so much systematic harm to Palestinians, has been as brutal and repressive against Palestinians, as the Israelis have been during the past 50-60 years and are continuing to be. Back to that last statement:(1) the Palestinians *shouldn’t* settle for anything less than is guaranteed to them by international law, not for a small carved up state of bantustans, or for illegal settlements or the continuing occupation of their land; (2) the Israelis have consistently refused to negotiate on the basis of the existence of a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza on pre-67 borders, even when the arabs including the Palestinians, have shown their willingness. Compromise shouldn’t mean having to accept the destruction of what has been guaranteed to you by the law, and indeed what is by international consensus a just settlement.

      It has been my opinion for many years, however, that peace will never break out because it suits the rest of the world to keep the sore festering.
      How does it suit the rest of the world when the US (Israel’s chief benefactor) has been consistently vetoing any UN resolution that looks like paving the way for a just settlement? When the international consensus is clear: a two state solution with a viable Palestinian state within pre-1967 borders?

      I call you an antisemite, although I am sure you aren’t in day-to-day life, because you are so vitriolic against Israel
      That is not what anti-semite means though, is it Chairwoman? That’s just slander and namecalling, and it’s absolutely repulsive. I don’t know how you can square that with your conscience knowing what jewish people have suffered at the hands of real anti-semites, to use it as a throwaway term to abuse anyone critical of Israel (note, critical of Israel, not calling for the destruction of Israel, or hateful of Israelis). It’s scandalous that a woman of your age should go around behaving like a child in the playground.

    108. Refresh — on 9th October, 2006 at 6:34 pm  

      Goodness - what’s happened here?

      Went away to finish off a few tasks - instead of realising the imminent threat of the BNP bombing people to kingdom come - we are fighting amongst ourselves.

      To get back on thread. The real question is what did they have in mind.

      Was it to kill and maim muslims? Or was it kill and maim members of the general public to frame muslims?

      These are very serious questions that need to be debated. Sunny I hope someone does a CiF article on it (hint, hint).

    109. Don — on 9th October, 2006 at 6:40 pm  

      Kulvinder,

      I broadly agree with your points, but must take issue on Charles’ ‘Defender of Faith’ gambit.

      (Ironically, the title was conferred on Henry for defending the catholic faith. After the break with Rome it was re-conferred on Edward VI without the article.)

      This can only mean defending the idea of faith (religious belief) regardless of the articles of that faith and regardless of how much various faiths hold mutually contradictory doctrines. But more importantly, it excludes those who are unbelievers. it is either so vague as to be meaningless or it drifts towards the view often expressed by US politicians that ‘Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion’. Which is no mere slogan; atheists are barred from holding public office in seven states.

    110. Kulvinder — on 9th October, 2006 at 6:46 pm  

      This can only mean defending the idea of faith (religious belief) regardless of the articles of that faith and regardless of how much various faiths hold mutually contradictory doctrines. But more importantly, it excludes those who are unbelievers. it is either so vague as to be meaningless or it drifts towards the view often expressed by US politicians that ‘Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion’. Which is no mere slogan; atheists are barred from holding public office in seven states.

      You’re advocating revolution; we don’t do revolution. Incremental change ;)

    111. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 6:47 pm  

      Anas - Let’s first deal with negotiation, compromise and the real world. Yes, we all know what the UN resolutions say, but what has actually happened is that when Israel would agree, the Palestinians wouldn’t and vice versa.

      I appreciate that settling for less always seems like a defeat, but I am nothing if not pragmatic, and I assure you that this would be my opinion if Israel were asked to take less or I were a Palestinian, because that is my nature. At the moment the Palestinians are living in abject poverty, led by two factions who seem reluctant to find a concensus with each other, let alone with another country. They have nothing, they are squabbling about land that isn’t currently in their hands, while the land that is crumbling even further around them. In my opinion if Hamas recognised Israel, then there would be opportunity for negotiation on borders. This is what I meant by both parties not getting everything they want. Palestine gets less than it wants, but so does Israel. At the moment Palestine has nothing: no economy, no international transport links, no industry. And its leaders are hanging on, not compromising, and not talking. As you have brought my age into the equation, I know absolutely that 100 per cent of nothing is still nothing. As for UN resolutions, member nations treat them, when applied to them, with a level of contempt usually reserved for the French with EU directives.

      I apologise for calling you antisemitic, or for calling for the destruction of the State of Israel. Your language was so intemperate that you gave me that impression.

      As for Katy, who will no doubt reply later, although she defends me on a personal level because I am her mother, her political opinions are very much her own.

      And I am still appalled that a BNP supporter is walking around London, only a few miles from here, wearing a T shirt that says he supports Israel.

    112. raz — on 9th October, 2006 at 7:15 pm  

      Just as a matter of interest, the BNP have a couple of Jewish councillers these days. Methinks Chairwoman and Katy would give them a good kicking :)

    113. Chairwoman — on 9th October, 2006 at 7:22 pm  

      Raz - Indeed they have, and wasn’t there a Sikh in there somewhere?

      I have no patience with them whatsoever.

    114. Katy Newton — on 9th October, 2006 at 7:32 pm  

      Everything I would say has been said for me already, and not just by the Chairwoman. Get some perspective, Anas. I want the Israeli occupation to end, as I have said on this site so many times that I am sick of saying it, but if you’re waiting for me to agree with you that Israel treats its minorities worse than Russia, China, Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Darfur, Zimbabwe and any number of South American and African states then you’ll be waiting a long long time.

      And as far as I am concerned this thread has been diverted long enough.

    115. Katy Newton — on 9th October, 2006 at 7:35 pm  

      No self respecting Jew should be seen within a hundred feet of the BNP. Jewish BNP councillors are a disgrace.

    116. Jagdeep — on 9th October, 2006 at 7:38 pm  

      Anas is a troll. A thread on the BNP was turned into a crapulent rant against Israel. Not the first time those tactics have been used. Troll, troll, monomaniacal troll.

    117. Katy Newton — on 9th October, 2006 at 7:55 pm  

      You and your thesaurus, Jagdeep :D

      I used to have a Saturday job at Smiths and you wouldn’t believe how many people pronounce “thesaurus” “thee-a-saurus”. As if it was a dinosaur.

    118. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 8:00 pm  

      I did some studying to clever myself. I’ve discovered that fascists don’t like jews much so seeing as BNP are, like, fascists, that means someone is talking out of his Anas.

      Do I win sex?

    119. justforfun — on 9th October, 2006 at 8:20 pm  

      Kulvinder # 108 - wow! -

      Related to Geoff Boycott?

      You have looked at this test match here and in the middle east over the long term. A true test match player and not a one day specialist. I agree with everything you say regarding the ‘right to exist’ arguement. Father Time aludes the thinking of polititians. However I’m with Don when it comes to the ‘Defender of the Faith’ issue, if I have understood him correctly, and I would go further. The “Defender of the Faith” needs to be removed and replaced by “Hammer of Faith”. Faith is the last thing we need to enshrine in any form of oath taken by the sovereign. Faith is the antithesis of Freethinking and that is what we need to be. Faith needs to be stamped out where ever it occurs. If I was the Devil, Faith is exactly what I would use to trap the souls of men. Rob them of their free will , -and be cunning, make them think by having Faith they were in the service of God.

      Justforfun

    120. Katy Newton — on 9th October, 2006 at 8:29 pm  

      You don’t have to “win” sex anymore, Kismet. I am told it is a conjugal right.

    121. Katy Newton — on 9th October, 2006 at 8:30 pm  

      PS your dinner’s in the dog

    122. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 8:30 pm  

      Hurrah. Honeymoon time! Your face or mine?

    123. Kismet Hardy — on 9th October, 2006 at 8:31 pm  

      I wasn’t talking to the dog.

    124. Sunny — on 10th October, 2006 at 1:59 am  

      Not the first time those tactics have been used. Troll, troll, monomaniacal troll.

      I wouldn’t go that far, but I do think Anas’ obsession with Israel/Palestine does become annoying. Saying that I don’t think he / she has been racist or belligerent so there is no need to just castigate him as a troll.

      Yes, Sunny, but as far as I’m aware it’s not enshrined in law, at least not to the extent that it is in Israel. Also, I don’t think Pakistan is illegally occupying another country and attempting to ethnically cleanse it.

      Actually I’m pretty sure there are laws discriminating against Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan, especially around the building of religious buildings and propagating their faith.

      Also, see this thread earlier: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/243

      One could also argue that Pakistan is trying to cleanse people from Baluchistan, and funding groups such as LeT (and their offshoots) who aim to cleanse out Hindus and Sikhs from Kashmir.

      I don’t want to make this into a Pakistan bashing thread but given that you try and make every thread into anti-Israel, it may be worthwhile you also take some time to condemn atrocities closer to back home. You may not support Pakistan in all this but, like many other so-called fighters against oppression from the Muslim community, you seem to talk about oppression from only one direction. This takes away your credibility.

      Oh, and everyone, I’m not in favour of people being labelled anti-semitic so quickly. I don’t believe Anas is. We must be free to criticise countries, organisations and governments openly here without being thrown slurs. This is the sort of attitude I face on other forums, who accuse me of being “Islamophobic” just because I criticise the MCB or “anti-Sikh” because of my writings.

      It is not needed.

    125. raz — on 10th October, 2006 at 3:36 am  

      Bollocks Sunny. While I fully support your criticisms of Anas’s anti-Israel agenda (and I have always been standing up against rabid anti-Israel propganda in the Muslim world), you are falling into the same trap when you make such accusations against Pakistan. There are no laws against Hindus or Sikhs in Pakistan, in fact generally speaking non-Muslims are treated ok. Yes there is defintely discrimination (as there is in most conutries on earth) but in fact it is Muslims (especially Shia plus Ahmedis) who have borne the brunt of intolerance in Pakistan, not non-Muslims. There has certainly been no Gujrat/Ayhoda pogrom against Hindus, and no 1984 occupation of holy places/massacre of thousands committed against Sikhs.

      (In fact, after what happened in 1984, I’d defintely say Sikhs have been treated better in Pakistan than in India)

      It’s worth noting that as far as I know, no Pakistani Hindu or Sikh has committed an act of terrorism against Pakistan. So whatever problems that may face in fitting in to Pakistani society, it clearly hasn’t driven any of them to rebellion. Contrast this to e.g. Indian Muslims/Sikhs and you will see the difference.

      Nobody is being ‘cleansed’ in Baluchistan, in fact the feudal lords such as Bugti are the real criminals of such areas and Musharraf should be congratulated for taking on these despots who want to keep their people in the stone ages. BTW, after all the hullaboo about the supposed ‘insurgence’ in Baluchistan a few months ago, the chief instigators have all been taken out, most of the armed resistance have been giving themselves up and co-operating with the government, and violence has dwindled away. Another example of media hyping up a non-existent threat.

      The Pakistani part of Kashmir is a thousand times more peaceful than the Indian part (100,000 dead+). I’ll say no more.

    126. Leon — on 10th October, 2006 at 11:03 am  

      FFS does every fucking thread have to descend into anti/pro Israel arguements on here???

    127. Vikrant — on 10th October, 2006 at 11:33 am  

      There has certainly been no Gujrat/Ayhoda pogrom against Hindus, and no 1984 occupation of holy places/massacre of thousands committed against Sikhs.

      Sure… forgot 1947?

    128. Jai — on 10th October, 2006 at 11:52 am  

      Apart from the fact that none of this has anything to do with the issue of the BNP, I’m trying to figure out what the hell an obsession with supposed India vs Pakistan “rivalry” has anything to do with this blog at all, considering that most people here don’t live in the subcontinent. There is obviously some relevance considering the Asian origin of most commenters here, but beyond that I think we have other issues to deal with which are far closer to home. And by home, I mean the UK.

      I know that Sunny has occasionally written articles touching on the subject, but why drag that matter into completely off-topic discussions ?

      Wrong debate, wrong audience — All that should be argued on a blog/internet discussion forum where the majority of the commenters live in India or Pakistan. This is definitely the wrong place for all this. I’m sure those two countries have enough domestic “champions” without the rest of us perpetuating the belligerence while comfortably sitting thousands of miles away.

      Raz, I’m going to say this one final time. Most Indians back in India have moved on from the previous strife with Pakistan and are definitely not obsessed with their neighbouring country. They’re far more preoccupied with America, “India Shining” and that sort of thing these days.

      As for Indians living in the UK, the majority of the 2nd-Generation don’t give a damn about Pakistan full-stop, especially since relations between the 2 nations have improved so much in recent years. Our lives and perspectives primarily revolve around the UK and the West as a whole, not the subcontinent. It may be a different matter in America because they have far more “recent arrivals” (FOBs, to use the non-PC term) than we do. But as for Britain, you’re arguing these issues with people who really, really don’t care.

      I’m not saying any of this to you in a nasty or aggressive way, but the point does need to be made.

    129. Leon — on 10th October, 2006 at 12:30 pm  

      There is obviously some relevance considering the Asian origin of most commenters here, but beyond that I think we have other issues to deal with which are far closer to home. And by home, I mean the UK.

      Well said.

    130. Anas — on 10th October, 2006 at 3:39 pm  

      OK, I’ll refrain from mentioning Israel/Palestine for a while.

    131. Leon — on 10th October, 2006 at 3:44 pm  

      To be honest it’s not the mentioning it’s the context (and this isn’t squarely about you), that issue seems to get dragged up on completely unrelated threads. Nothing wrong with debating it but it derailing threads can be a real pain.

      Cheers for the consideration though Anas, much appreciated.:)

    132. Chairwoman — on 10th October, 2006 at 4:37 pm  

      Me too. I don’t know why I permit myself to get sucked in. I keep listing UK problems that need looking at, and then getting on the Middle East merry-go-round.

      Hello Anas, how are you today.

    133. sonia — on 10th October, 2006 at 4:46 pm  

      heh heh Chairwoman i know what you mean - about not getting sucked in. but then when you read sth and think what a silly old so and so it takes great restraint not to wade in…

    134. Anas — on 10th October, 2006 at 4:53 pm  

      Fine Chairwoman, thanks for asking.

    135. Chairwoman — on 10th October, 2006 at 4:53 pm  

      I don’t need to sit on my hands today, Sonia, so I’m being lulled into a false sense of sanity :-)

    136. Shoque — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:12 pm  

      There has certainly been no Gujrat/Ayhoda pogrom against Hindus, and no 1984 occupation of holy places/massacre of thousands committed against Sikhs

      Except for the genocide of one million Bengali Hindus and Muslims by brave Pakistani soldiers in 1971 fully supported by the Pakistani masses and Pakistani nationalists everywhere including raz. That figure dwarfs every other genocide of the post world war 2 period except for Cambodia and Rwanda. And it is all on the bloodstained hands of Pakistan. Funny how a Pakistani nationalists memory fails him over this, but then again, they dont think of Bengalis as fully human, and that is why they carried out a genocide of one million of us.

    137. Shoque — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:14 pm  

      The ‘tolerance’ of Pakistan:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_atrocities

      Lets not forget that every single major terrorist atrocity in the world has roots in Pakistan.

    138. Kismet Hardy — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:15 pm  

      That’s what I keep telling them shoque. Why won’t they recognise us bangladeshis? I go up to people just to say hello and it’s always like: ‘Who are you? What are you doing in my kitchen? Get out or I’ll stab you.’

      It seems my friend that even after all these years, us bangladeshis are still paying the price :(

    139. Shoque — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:21 pm  

      Dont worry Kismet Hardy some Bangladeshis are stupidly trying to change that and aping the Jamaati ways unfortunately.

      But I have a theory about why Pakistan has become a state synonymous with terrorism and extremism. I think it actually has roots in the humilation of 1971. All that racist and genocidal rage had to be channeled somewhere. All the minorities had been butchered. One million ‘impure’ Bengalis ‘monkeys’ slaughtered. Where could all that rage and genocidal anger be focussed after the humiliation of 1971? Of course it went into two areas - extreme Pakistani nationalism, and extremist Islamist hatred allied to that nationalism.

      The roots of Pakistani terrorism lie in the humiliation of 1971 and the cancer of the genocidal army returning to that society and living without any introspection or guilt for their crimes against humanity, in fact they were rewarded.

    140. raz — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:21 pm  

      “you’re arguing these issues with people who really, really don’t care”

      If you don’t care then don’t bother posting about it. The volume of India-Pakistan posts on this blog probes that some people DO care, even if you don’t.

    141. sonia — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:22 pm  

      come come that sounds like a bit of an exaggeration - why aren’t there any terrorists outside Pakistan - they’ve hardly got the monopoly on violence.

    142. Kismet Hardy — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:22 pm  

      This is a hilarious thread to read if you’re a BNP bod.

      BNP dudes with more explosives found in their home than any UK muslim

      Cut to

      Israel vs Palestine
      India vs Pakistan
      Pakistan vs Bangladesh

      Ah the irony. It’s like rain on your wedding day

    143. ZinZin — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:26 pm  

      True but dentist as terrorist?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Bet he has loads of WW2 gear…from the other side.

      Kismet you forget about Omar Kayam and the fertiliser for his allotment.

    144. Kismet Hardy — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:26 pm  

      Shoque,

      I grew up in Dhaka, my uncles all faught in the independence war, we all know the likes of iahia khan and the horses they rode on raped and pillaged our people and it was all the british raj’s fault for letting west pakistan use and abuse us from so far away yadda yadda yadda

      It was a war. We won. India helped us win. It’s been 30 years gone by. Let it go.

      There are terrorist cells in bangladesh and you know it

    145. Shoque — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:26 pm  

      Yeas Sonia you are right but I was referring to the current ‘fashion’ for extremist Islamic terrorism. And the roots of all this rage lie in Pakistani humiliation. Not even the genocide they commited against us could satisfy their viciousness.

    146. Shoque — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:29 pm  

      Kismet Hardy

      Some people don’t want to acknowledge it though do they? And can actually make statements about Pakistan being lilly white virgins who never did any harm. As for the terrorists in Bangladesh now, well they are the ideological sons of the collaborators, and it is a disgrace that the same ideology that unleashed the killings shows its ugly face today still. Lickspittles then and lickspittles now.

    147. raz — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:30 pm  

      LOL at Shoque. I worked with many Bangladeshi youths in Tower Hamlets last year and none of them gave a fuck about 1971. One of my Bangladeshi colleagues openly praised the Pakistani atomic bomb as a defence against the Indian ‘bully’ (his words). And they all support the Pakistan cricket team as well, especially against India :) Keep living in the past, the rest of the world doesn’t care :)

    148. Leon — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:30 pm  

      This is a hilarious thread to read if you’re a BNP bod.

      Yep, I was thinking something very similar. I don’t know how someone looked at the title “BNP members caught with “record haul” of explosive chemicals” and thought “OMG! I better post about Indo/Pak relatiions or the other great divide!!”…

    149. Sid — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:34 pm  

      Yeah lol.
      The BNP want to detonate their bombs and kill your children. But in the meantime, divide and conquer yourselves.

    150. Shaan69 — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:38 pm  

      kismet I bet you are ashamed to be from bangladesh :-)

    151. Kismet Hardy — on 10th October, 2006 at 5:40 pm  

      Oh I’m really going to be drawn into justifying my existence by a man who lols himself…

    152. Shoque — on 10th October, 2006 at 6:00 pm  

      Raz you’re a typical Pakistani nationalistic rat.

      Ready to bring up the past whenever you want to make a point, but unwilling to face up to the realities that complicate your own vision, such arrogance, so shameless.

      Pakistan commited a genocide without remorse. Just because Bangladeshi boys in Tower Hamlets show more personal humility to a scumbag who doesnt care for the one million humans slaughtered in a genocide commited in the name of your rancid nationalism, either way, you’re just a typical arrogant genocide denying nationalistic fuckwit. This is the reason why Pakistan is a cesspit of terrorism and nuclear proliferation and extremism, for the same reason that even ‘respectable’ Pakistanis like you are so racist and arrogant. That is the REAL WORLD and it is the one we live in every day no matter how much historical whitewashing assholes like you want to do.

    153. Leon — on 10th October, 2006 at 6:02 pm  

      I really wish I had the ability to close my threads. This discussion is going nowhere fast…

    154. Katy Newton — on 10th October, 2006 at 6:14 pm  

      You know what I’m really angry about?

      Gingerism.

      It’s true. Ginger people get a really hard time all the time, and no one cares. We’re human, you know. We bleed red. We have needs, and feelings - feelings that are easily hurt. And then you mock us for our short tempers. It’s the last permissible form of racism. Everyone hates a ginger. And I think this thread is the place to put a stop to it.

      Or at least fall out with someone over it.

      Either will do. I’m not fussed.

    155. Chairwoman — on 10th October, 2006 at 6:16 pm  

      Hello Katy, what’s for dinner tonight?

    156. raz — on 10th October, 2006 at 6:23 pm  

      LOL Shoque rant all you want. Fact is the all the many Bangladeshis I have encountered have no interest in 1971, only a hardcore of extreme nationalists and ‘intellectuals’ on the net still go on about it. Majority of the sensible Bangladeshis are looking to the future instead of dwelling on something that happened in the distant past. Good for them and shame on you.

      BTW, did you know the Bangladesh and Indian armies are regularly attacking one another these days:

      http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-skirmish24sep24,1,7625513.story?coll=la-headlines-world&ctrack=1&cset=true

      BTW, did you also know it has been heavily rumoured that Bangladesh will be one of the first export customers of Pakistan’s Al-Khalid battle tank and JF-17 jet fighter, presumably for defence against…wait for it…India? How does that make you feel :)

    157. Don — on 10th October, 2006 at 6:29 pm  

      Katy,

      Yeah, poor gingers, what self-piying drivel. Some of us remember Eric the Red, brutal killer of Filth-Eyjolf. Jonathan Swift had your number, “It is observed that the red-haired of both sexes are more libidinous and mischievous than the rest,’. And the crimes of Chris Evans, vile corrupter of that nice girl off Dr Who, are fresh in our minds.

    158. Jai — on 10th October, 2006 at 6:40 pm  

      Raz,

      =>”The volume of India-Pakistan posts on this blog probes that some people DO care, even if you don’t.”

      The vast majority of India-Pakistan posts on this blog are submitted by you. Vikrant occasionally responds due to his own reasons. Beyond a certain point, the rest of us don’t give a damn and this is clear by the irritation repeatedly expressed by everyone regarding this topic. Some people may raise the issue in response to points you make about Pakistan-India relation, but I have rarely seen commenters on PP of Indian ancestry start diatribes against Pakistan themselves. Possibly some Bangladeshis here may respond due to historical links with “West Pakistan” and the events of ’71.

      You really need to take this on board. The majority of British-born Indians these days have absolutely no interest in “India-Pakistan rivalry” — certainly not amongst educated professionals, who have far too many other matters to occupy their time with.

      Now, you can carry on hijacking thread after thread with this obsession, but please don’t expect most Indians here to be interested. We’re not literal extensions of subcontinental society and, again beyond a certain point, whatever goes on back in India with regards to Kashmir or its neighbours isn’t anything to do with us.

      And by “Indians”, I’m referring to those with Indian ancestry but born & bred in the UK. If you have some kind of problem with Indian foreign policy and military activities, it’s pointless to argue all that with people who are not from India and don’t live there.

      I’ve said this before: Perhaps Sulekha would be a better place for you to direct your ire. Or one of the numerous right-wing Hindu websites out there. Or maybe even Sepia Mutiny; there are enough “recent arrivals” from the subcontinent there for you to have an audience for your arguments.

    159. Vikrant — on 10th October, 2006 at 8:05 pm  

      me a recent arrival? nay… spent 14 of my 17 years of existence in Ole Blighty.. 2 of those in unforgiving Cumbria… Sadly though i dont see myself returning in near future.

      I just feel compelled to respond to raz when i feel he is getting away with his obnoxious rants… used to be a Bharat Rakshak regular! Got far too many important things on my mind these days… studies and ofcourse girls…

    160. Vikrant — on 10th October, 2006 at 8:09 pm  

      I grew up in Dhaka, my uncles all faught in the independence war,

      Well my grand-uncle an Indian army Captain at the time was present when tearfully Niazi was surredering to unmoved Aurora. I think i have the pic somewhere….

    161. Refresh — on 10th October, 2006 at 11:57 pm  

      Leon,

      No chance of getting a result on this blog, unless you chair it. Alternative is to propose an outcome worth achievements. Requires a lot of effort, but probably more productive.

      Blogs are clearly not designed for outcomes, but are ok for wasting time, not bad for airing your views to a captive audience, and great for making lifelong enmities - probably.

    162. Refresh — on 10th October, 2006 at 11:59 pm  

      Leon

      No chance of getting a result on this blog, unless you chair it. Alternative is to propose an outcome worth achieving. Requires a lot of effort, but probably more productive.

      Blogs are clearly not designed for outcomes, but are ok for wasting time, not too bad for airing your views to a captive audience, and great for making lifelong enmities - probably.

    163. Desi Italiana — on 11th October, 2006 at 12:23 am  

      *Raz and Shoque*:

      How about you guys each have a mango lassi, sit down, and watch this:

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=s4xuEuzJUFc

      A singer beloved on both sides of the border. I am sure *Jai* will agree with me ;)

      PS. I LOVE this ghazal.

      *************************

      OK, back to the the BNP and explosive chemicals.

    164. Refresh — on 11th October, 2006 at 2:09 am  

      Never seen or heard of Jagjit Singh before (your link)- fabulous stuff. Switched from Dr Feelgood (70′s concert) to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and now to your link.

      Real culture!

    165. Sunny — on 11th October, 2006 at 2:14 am  

      Am closing this thread in advance. The point I was trying to make has been made I think. Enough of the Indian-Pak rivalry rubbish.

    Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

    Pickled Politics © Copyright 2005 - 2010. All rights reserved. Terms and conditions.
    With the help of PHP and Wordpress.