You’re full of shit. I could pick your argument apart, but you’re so tiresome and I know it will achieve nothing. Go back to Harry’s Place where your brand of poisonous selective and ahistorical racism will be more than welcome. And soil this blog no more.

“His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and furthe”r astray from the plain road.”

seems the koran explicitly mentions the choice treatment for the idol worshippers.

anyhow, the problem is that christians or jews are not using the old testament to blow up things……but a very small minority of muslims are and a over whelming majority o.f mulsims do condone that.

Sorry, I didn’t realise this discussion was about you.

Do you want to deal with the historical antipathy that Christians have towards Jews for dealing Jesus to the Romans? Or the Jewish concept of calling Gentiles Untermenschen (subhumans)?

Irrelevant, not following Jesus. Muslims who curse Jews are doing just what Mohammed did.

PICKTHAL: Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs for retribution with Allah? (Worse is the case of him) whom Allah hath cursed, him on whom His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road.

SHAKIR: Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.

Apes and Pigs alright. But no mention of Jews in translations by Ali, Pickthall or Shakir. “Those who incurred the Wrath” refers to what people of the “Old Testament”. And guess what – they were Jews. Just like they are in the Old testament.

Do you want to deal with the historical antipathy that Christians have towards Jews for dealing Jesus to the Romans? Or the Jewish concept of calling Gentiles Untermenschen (subhumans)?

If you want to use Scripture, there’s no lack of politically incorrect scandals in the Old Testament.

Come on, lets have you.

My pleasure.

er, no it doen’t. Buts that the kind of falsehood propounded by Harry’s Place and Little Green Footballs, and you provide an excellent example of a troll from those two blogs who dishes out this kind of bollocks. Thank you for playing.

In France most attacks on Jews have come from young Muslim men. A report showing this was suppressed on the grounds that it would be offensive to Muslims.

The Koran itself compares Jews to apes and pigs, so it is hardly surprising that many Muslims have a less than favourable attitude towards Jews.

“Is Zionism a form of fascism (falangism)?”
–Random comment made on Harry’s Places

When seeing the first comment, why is it not overly offensive to Melanie Phillips and her ilk (Hello Harry’s Place)? And why is the second tantamount to “rabid anti-Semitism”?

I think the reason is because people like Melanie Phillips are much more stridently vocal and successful with her propounding her views than the MCP can ever hope to be – because she has a captive audience. And secondly, she is extremely representative of the voices on the so called “progressive” blogs such as Harry’s Place and others on their blogroll. Spend 5 minutes reading their comments boxes and you’ll see what I mean.

Why pick on Melanie Phillips specifically?

My point was to firstly compare how similar they’re acting, and secondly point out how an increasing number of commentators like MP, and even Nick Cohen sometimes, brand all Muslims as anti-semitic.

Yes there is prejudice. Muslims face it, Jews and even Sikhs (mistaken for Muslims) do. Such is life.

For some organisations its useful to exaggerate this threat or push the agenda in such a way that strengthens their position. the MCB do it, and even maybe the CST. MP though sees any questioning of the CST as anti-semitic propaganda but would probably swallow anything negative said about the MCB. Such is her hypocrisy.

Thanks.

Underlying that you are holding this up as a mirror to Muslim commentators: they sometimes attack internal critics as being unrepresentative of Muslims, therefore not to be trusted, and they sometimes interpret external criticism as evidence of Islamophobia.

Phillips’ argument is fair enough on the face of it. She thinks attacks on Jews are increasing and that some of this increase is due to prejudiced Muslims. She feels her evidence was treated by the documentary makers as inherently suspect, while those of her critics were treated as authoritative. I can understand that would irritate her and make her question the objectivity and the motives of the film-makers.

I’m sure this is how MCB felt about the Panorama documentary about them as well.

The mass media is full of propaganda masquerading as analysis. And we have to get used to consuming it as sceptically as we would read Pravda or the local Labour Party news-sheet. Otherwise we will all end up as disillusioned as Melanie Phillips – believing that we are being singled out for attack because we are Jewish, Muslim, whatever.

What is harder to overcome is paranoia – the kind of egocentric chauvanism that would interpret any criticism of Israeli army occupation as veiled anti-semitism, or any criticism of Sudan Govt human rights abuses as veiled Islamophobia. For any progress, we have to be able to talk to and listen to each other without assuming the worst motivations, otherwise we’re just talking to ourselves.

“It’s a mitzvah (worthy deed) to be happy”

I like that.

Leslie

Doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem with anti-semitism, or predujice against jews. There is.

Rabbi Hillel said “That which is hateful to you, do not to your neighbour. That is the Torah. The rest is commentary.” Christ said “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you”. I don’t know much of what is said in the Koran but I strongly suspect that there must be something similar.

What are we saying?