http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/05/udeaths.xml

certainly its a good job some people are practically minded.

I must have missed something but I fail to see what good comes of attacking Sunny or over reacting because he dared to think in real terms about resources (i.e. where limited funding should be focused in any campaign)…surely we picklers are better than this?

aha! that’s the phrase i was rooting around for – learned helplessness. crux of the matter! good post G Blonde 216. having one’s life plans/ambitions thwarted can lead to either terrible resentment/aggression outwards or depression and harm towards oneself if turned inwards. can’t count how many people in my wider family who feel thwarted in their life but at the same time feel they can’t do anything about it – as then they’ll feel they’ve not played by the book therefore will constitute ‘failure’. Keeping up a face appears to be the thing to do. but at the same time it seems people end up so bitter can’t feel happy if anyone steps outside of the conventions. the real problem is at that stage people feel they can’t help each other. or don’t want to.

i guess – getting out of the ‘asian family’ thing -

this sort of stuff is relevant to everyone’s lives. societal expectations and fear of failure. there’s a lot of pressure to ‘succeed’ whatever the hell that may mean – that drives people to overwork etc. and if they feel they ‘haven’t’ found ‘it’ consequences can be pretty much the same – drastic for some.

i think rakhee’s suggestion of a version of the Samaritans in different language/s is a great idea.

My family is riddled with depressive disorders in one form or another and I know how they eat you from inside, and how they incapacitate you: and that support and understanding from outside is essential for recovery. Awareness of these issues are essential for everyone.

Heh, I always want to say things like that, but I stop and rephrase them to not sound too radfem.

And Jagdeep, yes we criticize Sunny for his knee-jerk reaction to religion.

Where exactly have I criticised religion? This is just wilful misrepresentation. It’s more that I get knee-jerk defensive people on here who start criticising me. When we had the discussion on Samira Nazir I had someone saying I was picking on Islam or Muslim women. Gimme a break.

Who would know better than Sunny as his brother, Jagraj, is considered quite looney. However to label all as Sunny often attempts to do, due to his own disdain for organized religion is also rather problematic.

If you had any credibility left, you’ve certainly squandered that with the cheap shot at my brother. I don’t even need to defend him, heh.

I have a disdain for organised religion? Yes, I have a disdain for the so-called community leaders who try and organise religions. That is however irrelevant to this discussion. Try and stick to the topic?

As for ‘engaging da yoof’ – keeping a tab on my activities are you? You’re welcome to criticise my understanding of ground realities but just because I don’t spend my time hanging around the Gurudwara or going to Sikhi camps along with the BOSS crew doesn’t mean I have no clue of what’s going on.

Anyway, enough digression.

I believe depression is also a serious problem, I agree. My mum went through that too, and I agree that this is downplayed in Asian communities. Maybe a media campaign to raise awareness of this would be useful. Though I see it fundamentally tied to the existing system of patriarchy.

FO SHO.

It’s made me think how much language could be a barrier. I mean, it’s one thing setting up helplines and shelters but in terms of helping to heal the psychological problem, these women need someone to talk to, confide in but in their own language.

Maybe one thing we could do is fight for a helpline or a hindi equivalent of The Samaritans. I don’t believe something like this exists and it might give these people someone to at least talk to in confidence.

In terms of influencing men, couple more ideas:

- produce flyers or perhaps link up with a football or cricket club which has a strong asian following to target men and inform them of the punishment of domestic abuse/violence
- approach an organisation or the g’ment to fund some beermats which can be used in pubs and bars with either an extract of an asian woman’s experience or again, details of the sentences in store for those who offend. I know this might not work for some muslim communities but it would for others.

I’m just trying to think of ways to directly target people while at the same time, thinking of more long-term ideas such as those suggested above…

I think Sunny is a good guy. I dont know enough about him to say if he is really as you say.

Immortal Technique is a phenomenal rapper. You can listen to some samples, you can visit his website at:

http://www.viperrecords.com/imtech/revolutionary2samples/revolutionary2samples.html

Point well taken with regards to Sunny. It is based on understanding and seeing the community as ‘us,’ even the elements we don’t agree with with hopes to change them through love and understanding rather than a confrontational ‘us’ v. ‘them’ approach that makes people only stake out their positions even harder and less likely to engage in dialogue.

Yeah, I think Minister for Minority Women’s Welfare would be a good name. Ann Cryer has had rucks with some people so best to put in a smiley fresh face and have Ann Cryer as behind-the-scenes muscle and adviser. I’m serious, you should put this idea out there, add it to the debate amongst the activists, MPs. Say it is urgent because if you tackle it intensively and co-ordinated way, police forces, shelters, NHS for mental health issues, CPS, media liaison — you could make a difference I’m sure of it. A whole government department – and if you don’t co-operate they send John Prescott round to sit on you.

So yeah, if the Minister was prepared to kick arse, there’s a lot of arses that need it. But not all politicians like making waves, and Ministers are also appointees and not appointed by us. Would your minister be appointed by Ruth Kelly or her successor, because that doesn’t make me feel like singing. (I don’t know who appoints Junior Ministers.)

I hope your sister is doing OK now.

I don’t know much about Sunny so I was just shooting the breeze. I agree that people are less likely to listen to you if you dissasociate yourself from them and condescend to them.

http://www.sikhnet.com/Sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/A40AA4723B606293872571700074DDF9!OpenDocument

And a newspaper written about a Sikh community conference where they seemed to have addressed these issues:
http://www.sikhnet.com/Sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/A40AA4723B606293872571700074DDF9!OpenDocument

And Jagdeep, yes we criticize Sunny for his knee-jerk reaction to religion. Are there obscruntists in every religion? YES. Who would know better than Sunny as his brother, Jagraj, is considered quite looney. However to label all as Sunny often attempts to do, due to his own disdain for organized religion is also rather problematic. Sunny has advice for all, but other than a few BBC appearances as a talking head when it came to issues such as the Behzti episode, I don’t see him actively engaging the youth to anything positive. He is the armchair general or as Immortal Technique says “a cafe revolutionary.”