“next to of course god america i
love you land of the pilgrims’ and so forth oh
say can you see by the dawn’s early my
country ’tis of centuries come and go
and are no more what of it we should worry
in every language even deafanddumb
thy sons acclaim your glorious name by gorry
by jingo by gee by gosh by gum
why talk of beauty what could be more beaut-
iful than these heroic happy dead
who rushed like lions to the roaring slaughter
they did not stop to think they died instead
then shall the voice of liberty be mute?”

He spoke. And drank rapidly a glass of water

Shame such acuity didn’t surface prior to Iraq.

With the Taliban next door and the North West Frontier in a permanently low state of revolt, even the mouth breathers in the White House could see which way the wind would blow in Afghanistan. Fact, it’s how they justified supporting Musharraf at that point in time.

Iraq was the triumph of hope and veniality over experience.

God, can people stop whining? There have been plenty of India bashing threads, some by me. I generally try and allow people their freedom of speech unless they turn racist, xenophobic or start typing out lots of expletives. Accusing me of bias like a spoilt kid does not make me sympathetic to your cause.

Still his media campaign has been a hit in the US, one may not agree with him or his view of the world, but that probably feeds sales of the book even more ..(something for the more rabid pak bashers to ponder)

Raz, when was the last anyone ever called you to account your bizarre comments about India and Indians in general?

I have no idea either way , but I cling to the idea that most people world wide just want to get on with improving their lives without religion being dragged into it. However in Pakistan I believe the military and the religious parties are in a symbiotic relationship that allows each other to define and sustain themselves by the actions of the other – nice double act. I understand why this idea might be dangerous for some who think of Pakistan as a sacrosanct single Islamic entity. I think this mental burden of having to live up to this religious standard is at the root of alot of the problems in the area. Since Terry Thomas, Pakistanis cannot just be Pakistanis but have to be Islamic Pakistanis. Perhaps some in Pakistan are just fed up with this and want out. Pakistan is after all like India, a product of colonial map drawing and like India will only survive if it can convince its constituents that they all have a better future inside a state rather than on their own. Bangladesh made that choice 35 years ago, but not for religious grounds but just plain good old fashion – kick out the oppressors, and some will make the choice again if people like Raz just block their ears and close their eyes. Its realpolic about where the limits of US power extend and what the US thinks it can acheive when they are faced with choices. So the rantings of Raz against my obvious blasphemy is quite laughable. I have re-read my post and all I seem to ask is that the people of Pakistan realise that perhaps being in a perpetual miltary dictatorship is not the way to try and better onesself. But then what do I care – I don’t have to live there. However the people of Pakistan will be faced with a choice soon, if they don’t get a grip of themselves and sort out their religious and miltary leaders, but ooo that might be Un-islamic – no its not! – its seeing where the car is going and turning away from the abyss, or it just the fantasy of a Hindutva fanatic – perhaps if I was a Hinu and fanatic, but am I being irrational in thinking there is dwindling patience in the US and elsewhere with current policy on Pakistan? The US might just not be bothered in supporting a state called Pakistan in a few years time.

Justforfun

Jai,

if people like justforfun are going to articulate such shocking views on Pickled Politics, they are going to be called to account. What is your opinion about justforfuns wish to see Pakistan dismantled?

Shame such acuity didn’t surface prior to Iraq.

That it is feasible for the US to bomb Pakistan is obvious, and if a threat had been made that is exactly the form it would have taken, bombing on the Serbian model.

The point Alex makes is somewhat different – bombing Pakistan would have lead to possible disintegration and maybe talibanisation of parts of it. That’s the sort of failed state scenario in which terrorists can hide – and whatever you may think of the present US administration, that is one thing of which they are very well aware.

Aghh – I just went to look for my canvas rucksack in my loft with all my trekking stuff- I can’t find my rubber soled green canvas army boots. I’ve kept them for twenty three years and now my wife must have thrown them out. They were a gift from a BSF guy who gave me a lift in Kashmir – hey one could hitch hike then out in the middle of nowhere and get a lift of whoever stopped. Things change – thats the sad part..

I digress – Just keep an open mind and look to the future, the past glories of ancestors are not past down in ones genes.

Justforfun

In my defense i can only say that the Maharashtrian India i’ve been exposed to most, is *nearly* free from caste prejudices. Or may be it is the way since Dalits make up only about 5% of this state’s population. Maratha Empire was first to employ Dalit soldiers. Maratha state of Kolhapur was first to abolish untouchability (way back in 1840’s)… I’ll be going to Rajasthan this Diwali hopefully i’ll be able to see how Dalits in North India fare as opposed to Western India.

Well, the US has been doing that since WW2, especially in S. America, a lot of the time providing active military support. Apparently, US support for Pakistan throughout its the period of its bloody and murderous actions against Bangladesh is known as the “Pakistan tilt” . It’s just one of a large number of instances when the US has actively supported largescale massacres of innocent civilians across the world during the last 50-60 years.

Why do Pakistanis tolerate Islamist Jihadist organisations that specifically target Indians esp. Hindus?

Does average Pakistani realise that his ancestors were probably same as mine?

Why do Pakistanis insist on falsifying Arab/Persian lineage, why are they so ashamed of their Indian heritage?