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	<title>Comments on: George Alagiah wants to find his roots</title>
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	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Kaval</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35478</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaval</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35478</guid>
		<description>Ghettoisation  was  and  still is a  government  and  housing departments around  the  country&#039;s racists  policies...ie  sticking  all  black  people  together  so  they  don&#039;t feel  isolated!!!! 
Tower  Hamlets  is a  classic  example  of  this.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ghettoisation  was  and  still is a  government  and  housing departments around  the  country&#8217;s racists  policies&#8230;ie  sticking  all  black  people  together  so  they  don&#8217;t feel  isolated!!!!<br />
Tower  Hamlets  is a  classic  example  of  this&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: funkg</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35431</link>
		<dc:creator>funkg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35431</guid>
		<description>Oh no im in the position of seeing both amirs and sunnys point of view...i had a conversation with a Nigerian women today who lives in welling kent.  Her cousin who is a barrister has experienced countless experience of verbal and physical abuse in this area.  And I said to her the reason they do this is because the (working class) whites they are terrified.  Terrified of (highly) educated Asians and blacks, jealous of their economic successes, intimated by the their rich culture and angry at the opportunities open to them.  Yes lots of working class whites feel barricaded and marginalised, but can we help it if they were poorly educated? Many of us were too and we got off our backsides and done something about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh no im in the position of seeing both amirs and sunnys point of view&#8230;i had a conversation with a Nigerian women today who lives in welling kent.  Her cousin who is a barrister has experienced countless experience of verbal and physical abuse in this area.  And I said to her the reason they do this is because the (working class) whites they are terrified.  Terrified of (highly) educated Asians and blacks, jealous of their economic successes, intimated by the their rich culture and angry at the opportunities open to them.  Yes lots of working class whites feel barricaded and marginalised, but can we help it if they were poorly educated? Many of us were too and we got off our backsides and done something about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rakhee</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35171</link>
		<dc:creator>Rakhee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 11:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35171</guid>
		<description>*mass groan from all picklers in anticipation of this thread becoming yet another Amir/Sunny slanging match*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*mass groan from all picklers in anticipation of this thread becoming yet another Amir/Sunny slanging match*</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35167</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 10:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35167</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;George, unlike yourself, is a consistent anti-racist.&lt;/i&gt;

Typical rubbish.

&lt;i&gt;actually have to live in these ethnic ghettos.&lt;/i&gt;

So when there&#039;s a lot of brown people in an area, it&#039;s a ghetto automatically. Your language is very instructive.

&lt;i&gt;built on their contributions&lt;/i&gt;
.... because these immigrants don&#039;t contribute to the welfare state of course.

&lt;i&gt;encouraging migrants to entrench and celebrate their own distinctiveness;&lt;/i&gt;
It&#039;s called civil liberties. 

&lt;i&gt;has done its utmost to deny a culture to its indigenous voters&lt;/i&gt;
How?

&lt;i&gt;queuing system for council houses, which once kept established working-class communities together, but has now been adapted to meet the needs of new arrivals.&lt;/i&gt;
Try avoiding getting all your &quot;data&quot; from the Daily Mail. Council housing was always geared tpwards those who needed it most regardless of race.

&lt;i&gt;the liberal elite have left the field clear for real bigots and real Nazis to make political gains.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually the nazis are a lot less powerful now than they were in the past.

&lt;i&gt;Past migrations, of Jutes and Jews and Normans and Huguenots, have never been on anything like the current scale.&lt;/i&gt;
Where&#039;s your data based on percentages?

&lt;i&gt;The wish to preserve oneâ€™s identity and the identity of oneâ€™s nation requires no justification&lt;/i&gt;

Didn&#039;t ask you to provide one.

&lt;i&gt;Too rapid a change in the make-up of a community will inevitably lead to riots and resentment and alienation&lt;/i&gt;
&quot;brown people moving into my neighbourhood make me want to riot,&quot; in other words. Interesting logic.

&lt;i&gt;Without patriotism â€“ and increasingly we are without it â€“ you surrender vital things: trust, companionship, altruism, manners, language, and charity&lt;/i&gt;
Only in your mind.

Anyway, the above rubbish aside, I thought my commentary on the original article was a bit lame too, apologies to my readers for that. Had to rush out in a hurry when writing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>George, unlike yourself, is a consistent anti-racist.</i></p>
<p>Typical rubbish.</p>
<p><i>actually have to live in these ethnic ghettos.</i></p>
<p>So when there&#8217;s a lot of brown people in an area, it&#8217;s a ghetto automatically. Your language is very instructive.</p>
<p><i>built on their contributions</i><br />
&#8230;. because these immigrants don&#8217;t contribute to the welfare state of course.</p>
<p><i>encouraging migrants to entrench and celebrate their own distinctiveness;</i><br />
It&#8217;s called civil liberties. </p>
<p><i>has done its utmost to deny a culture to its indigenous voters</i><br />
How?</p>
<p><i>queuing system for council houses, which once kept established working-class communities together, but has now been adapted to meet the needs of new arrivals.</i><br />
Try avoiding getting all your &#8220;data&#8221; from the Daily Mail. Council housing was always geared tpwards those who needed it most regardless of race.</p>
<p><i>the liberal elite have left the field clear for real bigots and real Nazis to make political gains.</i></p>
<p>Actually the nazis are a lot less powerful now than they were in the past.</p>
<p><i>Past migrations, of Jutes and Jews and Normans and Huguenots, have never been on anything like the current scale.</i><br />
Where&#8217;s your data based on percentages?</p>
<p><i>The wish to preserve oneâ€™s identity and the identity of oneâ€™s nation requires no justification</i></p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t ask you to provide one.</p>
<p><i>Too rapid a change in the make-up of a community will inevitably lead to riots and resentment and alienation</i><br />
&#8220;brown people moving into my neighbourhood make me want to riot,&#8221; in other words. Interesting logic.</p>
<p><i>Without patriotism â€“ and increasingly we are without it â€“ you surrender vital things: trust, companionship, altruism, manners, language, and charity</i><br />
Only in your mind.</p>
<p>Anyway, the above rubbish aside, I thought my commentary on the original article was a bit lame too, apologies to my readers for that. Had to rush out in a hurry when writing it.</p>
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		<title>By: Amir</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35154</link>
		<dc:creator>Amir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 01:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35154</guid>
		<description>Sunny

&lt;b&gt; â€˜On this bit Alagiah displays some naivety.â€™&lt;/b&gt;

Piffle. George, unlike yourself, is a consistent anti-racist. Multiculturalism is founded on the fatalistic notion that communities will always â€˜changeâ€™, are in a permanent state of â€˜fluxâ€™ and that if you are &lt;b&gt;white&lt;/b&gt; and live in Oldham or Burnley or Rochdale then you had better get used to the idea quickly. Your fish and chips shop is now a den for sheesha smokers? Your daughterâ€™s school now has a majority of Urdu-speaking children? Good! Celebrate the change! Get over it. 

The elite, of course, see this as very adventurous and exotic; yet they do not have to bring up their children in districts where the schools are multilingual, or where the familiar landmarks of their own childhoods have disappeared. They view multiculturalism as exciting â€“ a matter of restaurants and alternative medicines, a wider range of cuisine and picturesque zones that they can visit as young people with few responsibilities.

BUT it is different for those who &lt;b&gt;actually&lt;/b&gt; have to live in these ethnic ghettos. It is also different for those who believed that the welfare state set up after 1945 was for them, built on their contributions, who now see its benefits given generously to new arrivals. 

It is also different for the indigenous white working-class. The Labour Party has spent the last 20 yrs encouraging migrants to entrench and celebrate their own distinctiveness; yet, paradoxically, has done its utmost to deny a culture to its indigenous voters. While it was accepted that immigrants would naturally wish to band together and preserve their cultural heritage, when the white-working class community made similar protestations, this was regarded, once again, as evidence of â€˜bigotryâ€™ and â€˜intolerance.â€™ To make matters worse, a lot of bitterness has been caused by changes in the queuing system for council houses, which once kept established working-class communities together, but has now been adapted to meet the needs of new arrivals. 

By shouting down the many thoughtful and civilised people who have tried to raise this issue in a responsible way, the liberal elite have left the field clear for &lt;b&gt;real&lt;/b&gt; bigots and &lt;b&gt;real&lt;/b&gt; Nazis to make political gains. Respectable, working-class people, in their increasing numbers, are voting for the BNP because politicians have lied and lied and lied and lied to them about immigration. Fashionable claims that this is a â€˜nation of immigrantsâ€™ are simply not true. Past migrations, of Jutes and Jews and Normans and Huguenots, have never been on anything like the current scale. The immigration we have had since 1950 is already far greater and more unsettling than anything we have experienced since the Norman Conquest.

Well, enoughâ€™s enough. (Bravo to George Alagiah.) The wish to preserve oneâ€™s identity and the identity of oneâ€™s nation requires no justification â€“ and no belief in superiority â€“ any more than the wish to have oneâ€™s own children, and to continue oneâ€™s family through them need be justified or rationalized by a belief that they are superior to the children of others, or more fit, or better in business. One identifies with oneâ€™s family, because it is oneâ€™s family â€“ not because they are better people than others. The same applies, mutatis mutandis, to oneâ€™s sense of belonging. One identifies with oneâ€™s town or oneâ€™s country, because it is oneâ€™s town or oneâ€™s country â€“ not because it is more magnanimous than other towns or other countries.

Too rapid a change in the make-up of a community will inevitably lead to riots and resentment and alienationâ€¦ on both sides of the equation. It is a tiresome truism to point out that people have â€˜multiple identitiesâ€™, since it is equally important for us to have &lt;b&gt;shared identities&lt;/b&gt;. Without patriotism â€“ and increasingly we are without it â€“ you surrender vital things: trust, companionship, altruism, manners, language, and charity. It is time, I think, for more conservative Asians to step-forward and help us eradicate the cultural Marxism (known colloquially as â€˜political correctnessâ€™), which, for the past twenty years, has been dividing our Great Nation. 

Bravo George. Bravo. 

Amir</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sunny</p>
<p><b> â€˜On this bit Alagiah displays some naivety.â€™</b></p>
<p>Piffle. George, unlike yourself, is a consistent anti-racist. Multiculturalism is founded on the fatalistic notion that communities will always â€˜changeâ€™, are in a permanent state of â€˜fluxâ€™ and that if you are <b>white</b> and live in Oldham or Burnley or Rochdale then you had better get used to the idea quickly. Your fish and chips shop is now a den for sheesha smokers? Your daughterâ€™s school now has a majority of Urdu-speaking children? Good! Celebrate the change! Get over it. </p>
<p>The elite, of course, see this as very adventurous and exotic; yet they do not have to bring up their children in districts where the schools are multilingual, or where the familiar landmarks of their own childhoods have disappeared. They view multiculturalism as exciting â€“ a matter of restaurants and alternative medicines, a wider range of cuisine and picturesque zones that they can visit as young people with few responsibilities.</p>
<p>BUT it is different for those who <b>actually</b> have to live in these ethnic ghettos. It is also different for those who believed that the welfare state set up after 1945 was for them, built on their contributions, who now see its benefits given generously to new arrivals. </p>
<p>It is also different for the indigenous white working-class. The Labour Party has spent the last 20 yrs encouraging migrants to entrench and celebrate their own distinctiveness; yet, paradoxically, has done its utmost to deny a culture to its indigenous voters. While it was accepted that immigrants would naturally wish to band together and preserve their cultural heritage, when the white-working class community made similar protestations, this was regarded, once again, as evidence of â€˜bigotryâ€™ and â€˜intolerance.â€™ To make matters worse, a lot of bitterness has been caused by changes in the queuing system for council houses, which once kept established working-class communities together, but has now been adapted to meet the needs of new arrivals. </p>
<p>By shouting down the many thoughtful and civilised people who have tried to raise this issue in a responsible way, the liberal elite have left the field clear for <b>real</b> bigots and <b>real</b> Nazis to make political gains. Respectable, working-class people, in their increasing numbers, are voting for the BNP because politicians have lied and lied and lied and lied to them about immigration. Fashionable claims that this is a â€˜nation of immigrantsâ€™ are simply not true. Past migrations, of Jutes and Jews and Normans and Huguenots, have never been on anything like the current scale. The immigration we have had since 1950 is already far greater and more unsettling than anything we have experienced since the Norman Conquest.</p>
<p>Well, enoughâ€™s enough. (Bravo to George Alagiah.) The wish to preserve oneâ€™s identity and the identity of oneâ€™s nation requires no justification â€“ and no belief in superiority â€“ any more than the wish to have oneâ€™s own children, and to continue oneâ€™s family through them need be justified or rationalized by a belief that they are superior to the children of others, or more fit, or better in business. One identifies with oneâ€™s family, because it is oneâ€™s family â€“ not because they are better people than others. The same applies, mutatis mutandis, to oneâ€™s sense of belonging. One identifies with oneâ€™s town or oneâ€™s country, because it is oneâ€™s town or oneâ€™s country â€“ not because it is more magnanimous than other towns or other countries.</p>
<p>Too rapid a change in the make-up of a community will inevitably lead to riots and resentment and alienationâ€¦ on both sides of the equation. It is a tiresome truism to point out that people have â€˜multiple identitiesâ€™, since it is equally important for us to have <b>shared identities</b>. Without patriotism â€“ and increasingly we are without it â€“ you surrender vital things: trust, companionship, altruism, manners, language, and charity. It is time, I think, for more conservative Asians to step-forward and help us eradicate the cultural Marxism (known colloquially as â€˜political correctnessâ€™), which, for the past twenty years, has been dividing our Great Nation. </p>
<p>Bravo George. Bravo. </p>
<p>Amir</p>
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		<title>By: StrangelyPsychedelique / Kesara</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35133</link>
		<dc:creator>StrangelyPsychedelique / Kesara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35133</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What is it that my parentsâ€™ generation [in Sri Lanka] resented about the British?&lt;/i&gt;

Apart from being colonial subjects? Not very much. 
Dunno about his parents though...

The irony is that in sri lankan schools we&#039;re usually taught about the positive leftovers from colonialism (railways, wierd food/music, tea etc) rather than &quot;ohhhh they raped our women &amp; badgered our cows...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>What is it that my parentsâ€™ generation [in Sri Lanka] resented about the British?</i></p>
<p>Apart from being colonial subjects? Not very much.<br />
Dunno about his parents though&#8230;</p>
<p>The irony is that in sri lankan schools we&#8217;re usually taught about the positive leftovers from colonialism (railways, wierd food/music, tea etc) rather than &#8220;ohhhh they raped our women &amp; badgered our cows&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: S</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35132</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35132</guid>
		<description>&quot;But many argue that their racism was a defensive reaction to the racism they faced. Meaning that after years of being called â€˜pakiâ€™ and other names, they resorted with racist animosity of their own&quot;

There is plenty of racism at source in Eastern Europe the middle east and china without blaming it on the UK. Why are Jamaicans round my way so racist to Africans -- was that my dads fault too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But many argue that their racism was a defensive reaction to the racism they faced. Meaning that after years of being called â€˜pakiâ€™ and other names, they resorted with racist animosity of their own&#8221;</p>
<p>There is plenty of racism at source in Eastern Europe the middle east and china without blaming it on the UK. Why are Jamaicans round my way so racist to Africans &#8212; was that my dads fault too?</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35131</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35131</guid>
		<description>Whoops mirax! well spotted, all changed now</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops mirax! well spotted, all changed now</p>
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		<title>By: mirax</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35130</link>
		<dc:creator>mirax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 15:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35130</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;It took me years to get my mum to be disparaging of other races to be honest, 


Er...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;It took me years to get my mum to be disparaging of other races to be honest, </p>
<p>Er&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: AsifB</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35129</link>
		<dc:creator>AsifB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/768#comment-35129</guid>
		<description>Ghettos are often as much mental as physical so it really ought not to matter either way how many Asians one lives near to..

I&#039;m not surprised that George Aligiah has more nuanced stuff to say on identity than the Daily Mail would let on. In his earlier book A Passage to Africa, he talked of being an idealistic Nkhrumah era schoolboy in early &#039;60s Ghana and of how having lived with Muslims from an early age, he does not share the stereotypes expressed by some of his colleagues. Plus of course he was a BBC correspondent in South Africa...


Salman Rushdie biog  : &quot;The trials of English boarding school Before his journey West [at 13], his mother tried to prepare him for some of the horrors he would face there. â€œSuch as,â€ he remembers, â€œhaving to wipe your bottom with paper.â€ This he had refused to believe. â€œI said, â€˜What do you mean? Itâ€™s not possible. No water? Not possible.â€™â€ â€¦

He brings up one of the great perceptions of such English educational establishments: â€œI managed to get through four and a half years of English boarding school without a single homosexual experienceâ€¦I certainly never came anywhere close to it, either being hit on by anybody or the other way round. In that sense, I missed out on some apparently essential part of the experience.â€</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ghettos are often as much mental as physical so it really ought not to matter either way how many Asians one lives near to..</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not surprised that George Aligiah has more nuanced stuff to say on identity than the Daily Mail would let on. In his earlier book A Passage to Africa, he talked of being an idealistic Nkhrumah era schoolboy in early &#8217;60s Ghana and of how having lived with Muslims from an early age, he does not share the stereotypes expressed by some of his colleagues. Plus of course he was a BBC correspondent in South Africa&#8230;</p>
<p>Salman Rushdie biog  : &#8220;The trials of English boarding school Before his journey West [at 13], his mother tried to prepare him for some of the horrors he would face there. â€œSuch as,â€ he remembers, â€œhaving to wipe your bottom with paper.â€ This he had refused to believe. â€œI said, â€˜What do you mean? Itâ€™s not possible. No water? Not possible.â€™â€ â€¦</p>
<p>He brings up one of the great perceptions of such English educational establishments: â€œI managed to get through four and a half years of English boarding school without a single homosexual experienceâ€¦I certainly never came anywhere close to it, either being hit on by anybody or the other way round. In that sense, I missed out on some apparently essential part of the experience.â€</p>
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