Tories playing the race card and agreeing with Nick Griffin
I’ve decided it’s no longer possible to have a sensible and / or intelligent discussion about immigration. This is especially true when you’ve got most right-wingers still pretending there was some vast Labour plot to deliberately foist these Labour-voting immigrants on them. The idea just beggars belief and yet they all believe it.
Oh and then there’s black candidate Loanna Morrison, who declares on ConservativeHome that Nick Griffin “is right” on immigration. Where do you even start? Is it not possible for these fucking, thick people to say anything sensible on the issue without agreeing with fascists or believing in conspiracies?
Morrison is black – which incidentally does not make any charge of racist stupidity any less relevant.
[hat-tip @sedentarymonkey]
British blacks and Asians are just as likely to be racist on the issue of immigration, especially those who feel that they’ve done fine now, and screw the ones who are still trying to get into the country. Naturally, the BNP are ecstatic that a black woman says Nick Griffin “is right” on immigration.
It boggles my mind that when it comes to immigration, Tories just go nuts. It’s like a red rag to a bull – they can’t physically think of anything else. The froth just comes out automatically. And not only that, it doesn’t even make sense from a policy or strategic point of view.
Conservative Party policy on immigration is now pretty much the same as New Labour’s. Except that Tories pretend they’re somehow going to cut immigration by 75% even though all they can do is restrict non-EU immigrants… maybe by outright banning all marriages to overseas citizens. But most immigration into the UK isn’t even non-EU citizens so the chances of a 75% cut are near to zilch. Furthermore – I’ll happily bet money now that they’ll never manage to enact an absolute numbers cap on immigration because it’s simply unworkable. The business community would go ape-shit.
Even from a strategic point of view it doesn’t work. Tories have been banging on about immigration for years now, especially over the last few months as their poll rating has dropped.
As Lenin points out too, if you look at voter preferences – they’re perfectly aware of this policy.
In fact it’s the only policy a majority of voters trust the Tories on. And yet voters are still abandoning Cameron in droves. Does this not tell any of these idiot Tories anything??
Obviously, I want them to crash and burn and die. But I’d prefer that if they didn’t do that while being so bigoted about it.
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Filed in: Party politics,Race politics
It is election year and all politicians and political parties have their eye on the main chance. That means you will see an increase in emotive sound-bite politics, making bold statements on what they think we want to hear rather then any concerted effort to get across what they think is necessary or are willing to provide.
Very few politicians have any back-bone and even fewer, or so it would seem, any integrity. They certainly don’t think much of the average intelligence of the very electorate they are desperately wooing
Why is it that immigrants feel predisposed to opening the doors of MY country to all and sundry for the world to invade. Get stuffed. Cheeky bugger!
The Tories are right. We are overcrowded and we at least need to keep a check on what’s going on. I would stop it completely for a number of years until we have completely assessed the situation. The whole immigration issue has been instrumental in bringing the countries infrastructure to its knees.
Labour are using BNP tactics in Essex.
Sadie,
I’m afarid it’s not just YOUR country.. plenty of balcks and asians are citizens as there is no ethnic requirement to getting a passport…although it seems you would be in favour of one.
Just “halting” immigration for a few years is the sort of policy a 9 year old would come out with.
What people really mean is stop immigration from “brown” nations…
With India being the second largest foreign investor in the Uk, largely due to the significant diaspora here… why don’t you just take a pay cut and be done with it?
Oh dear Sadie … nailing your colours to the mast is very commendable. Its a shame that your colours are based on such a naive (not to say false) picture of reality
Sadie – I’m not quite sure what you mean by: “Labour are using BNP tactics in Essex.” I haven’t noticed any intimidation, histrionics or threats of violence in my corner of Essex. Could you give an example please?
Whilst this link is from a Tory supporter (I assume not given an official go-ahead by Conservative party) this would seem to be a BNP style tactic – and representative of the Tory immigration hysteria:
http://mylabourposter.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a8abc3e4970b0120a8adbc75970b-pi
Any comment?
It was the stated aim of New Labour to ‘rub the right’s noses in diversity’ by cranking up immigration.
You reap what you sow.
Is Mars in the cusp of Saturn or something?
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=5338#comment-184678
Hahaha – even Polly Toynbee has joined the “maybe we should have a think about immigration” camp…!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/27/our-borders-are-porous
Well done cj,
Toynbee:
Sudden and unexpected immigration has abruptly changed the nature of some communities and there is no point pretending it can or will be reversed. With a backlog of 250,000 asylum cases and more building up, the UK Borders Agency can still only process less than half its target applications a month. Even then, sending back failed asylum seekers is often impossible.
I think I’ll sit this one out.
Racist beasts!
Every careful assessment suggests that mass Third World immigration has enriched Britain by, er, somewhat less than 1% of GDP.
What a bargain for us all!
Morrigan -
Could failed asylum seekers be tempted into sidling through the back door of Huntingdon Life Sciences?
Sheesh. Are you people still thinking about immigration?
Would you like to think some more? Please go ahead.
Bill Corr
What “careful assessments” might these be? Surely not ones written by right-wing nutjobs who oppose non-white immigrants. Given the positive contributions of ethnic minorities to this country in all fields this is a ludicrously small figure.
Leaving aside that it was the colonisation and subsequent impoverisation of ethnic minorities home countries that made them Third World in the first place. (Please refer to the statistics produced by poster Jai about the relative wealth of India and the UK prior to British colonialism)
BTW How much have YOU enriched the UK by?
Less than 1% I imagine
Its the age old way to absolve yourself of responsibility isn’t it? Blame it all on immigration, and not on thieving crooks in power who are aligned with big businesses/banks to ensure that wealth/information flows ever upwards through (for example) a systematic undermining of public services by privatisation. Imo, people who fall for this type of disinformation are not really worth getting into a discussion with. The real bad stuff is still happening far from public eyes – I would suggest people wake up and do something about it…..but I agree with Sunny, there’s just no point.
“BTW How much have YOU enriched the UK by?”
The hypocrite Bill Corr is “enriching” Saudi. This kind of posting is pretty much par for the course for him so best ignore.
Wibble
“The hypocrite Bill Corr is “enriching†Saudi. This kind of posting is pretty much par for the course for him so best ignore.”
hahahahah -another “Briton is too full up with immigrants think I’ll go and live in another country” hypocritical bonehead
Foreigners work in Saudi Arabia; they do not enter as asylum-seekers, bogus or otherwise.
It is helpful to distinguish between permanent immigrants and sojourners.
All but a very tiny handful of foreigners are sojourners in K.S.A., people with no rights other than those which the Saudi law extends to all. When our contracts of employment come to an end we pack and leave.
My daughter was born here over a quarter-century ago; she possesses no right to come here without a visa, no right of abode or the right to a Saudi passport or anything else.
Here in K.S.A. there are no Somali mothers-of-five demanding, and getting, publicly-funded council housing and there is no state-funded grievance-driven race relations industry and nobody like Ali Dizaei in the police.
There is one obvious parallel; the very high percentage of the prison population which is foreign-born. Those familiar with the ethno-cultiral makeup of the U.K. prison population will be able to guess the nationalities concerned.
Armed robbery is a minor concern here; knife-wielding thieves are justly apprehensive about amputation of their right hands. One might argue that the selective introduction of Sharia law into crime-ridden Brixton and Toxteth would be welcomed by almost all.
Sunny was kind enough to provide the link to the very lively discussion on CONSERVATIVE HOME.
Astounding to read the opinions of a black female TORY candidate on the lines of “Pull up the drawbridge, we’re bloody full up in this Sceptered Isle!” but sooner or later everything comes to pass.
Here is the link:
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2010/02/loanna-morrison-it-is-labours-failure-to-control-immigration-and-its-obsession-with-promoting-multic.html
Readers, please find time to read ALL the contributions, including the one at the very end, where I tell the apocryphal tale about Duncan Sandys.
Those wishing to e-mail the Jamaican-born Tory candidate Ms Loanna Morrison and congratulate her on her robust stance on the immigration issue can do so easily:
http://www.loannamorrison.co.uk/Page-29
So, in a nutshell, what we have here in the person of “Bill Corr” is someone who is advocating that Britain should duplicate the social & legal policies of ultraorthodox hardline Wahhabi Saudi Arabia.
As several people on this website have noticed before, there really is very little difference between many members of the far-Right and Al-Muhajiroun.
No, Jai. Please don’t oversimplify!
I’m all in favour of drinking, smoking dope, fornication, discreet adultery and even saucy gay stuff for those so inclined.
But floggings and hand amputations for violent crime are just what’s needed for some parts of the UK, whether one sees these things as a Salafist, a Satanist or a worshipper of Xenu.
EXCITING THEOLOGY 101:
The world of the IFE sounds like joining the nineteeth-century Fenians or the Mau Mau …
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/7333487/Inextricably-linked-to-controversial-mosque-the-secret-world-of-IFE.html
Do they have Masonic handshakes, too?
Goodthinkful people are always liberal on race as an aspect of the immigration debate, rightly so.
On the other hands, there are those with sharply differing views:
http://www.amren.com/ar/2006/12/#cover
Not all readers here will be familiar with the AmRen site, which is a pity because open debate is welcomed there.
Sorry abt that – we have a time-wasting idiot who impersonates DG. Has been deleted.
Here in K.S.A. there are no Somali mothers-of-five demanding, and getting, publicly-funded council housing and there is no state-funded grievance-driven race relations industry and nobody like Ali Dizaei in the police.
There’s no concept of human rights either.
But then, I’m not surprised you missed that bit out either.
American Rennaissance is a well-known white supremacist website which occasionally holds conferences in the US. The fact that Nick Griffin was originally scheduled to be the keynote speaker at this year’s conference should tell people everything they need to know.
Considering the fact that, in the case of Britain, racism towards South Asians is specifically a historical legacy of a large-scale Victorian-era propaganda, social re-engineering and historical revisionism campaign, there is considerable irony in people with a certain mindset referencing the “nineteenth-century”.
Bill Corr – ‘My daughter was born here over a quarter-century ago; she possesses no right to come here without a visa, no right of abode or the right to a Saudi passport or anything else.’
Simply being born in the UK does not entitle someone to a UK passport or right to settle etc.
Sunny – On the wider debate. I have a suspicion that immigration is a gripe issue rather than a big issue. It is an area where all the great talkboard gripes – multiculturalism, human rights, Islam and the like come together.
It is the sort of issue where a different question will attract a wildly different answer. ‘Do you think that there should be mass Somali immigration’ will get a different response to, ‘do you think that skilled immigrants should be allowed to come to the UK?’ or, ‘do you think that the government should prevent citizens marrying foreign people?’
There are entirely legitimate questions to be asked. Brutally, these problems should stop at the Somali border, not the UK’s.
But ‘immigration’ and ‘immigrant’ are massively loaded terms that can mean wildly different things in different contexts, hence the difficulty of debates.
It is not pretty, and it is more heat than light; but it is a talkboard gripe and one for the obsessives.
It is unfortunate that Loanna Morrison would say that Nick Griffin is right on immigration. Nick Griffin is not against immigration – he is certainly not against Andrew Brons’s clan which hails from Germany from immigrating here. No, Nick Griffin is against non-white immigration and the notion that non-whites, like Loanna Morrison, should have any rights in this country. But Nick Griffin can’t say that publicly because that would be racist, so he just says he is against immigration.
Anyway. We have Nick Griffin and France has Le Pen. In the last French elections, a considerable number of people defected from Le Pen’s party. It wasn’t because ‘Love not Hate’ campaigns actually made a difference. It was because Sarkozy, the right-winger, stole FN’s narrative. He appealed, for instance, for the French identity, French values and assimilation of immigrants.
I actually do not mind if Conservatives hijack BNP’s narrative. There is a considerable chunk of people who are resentful about mass immigration and the loss of cultural identity, and it is inconsequential whether
we feel it is morally justifiable or just plain racist. Their discontent results in the BNP getting more votes. There is a line to be drawn here: at no point is racism justifiable and no ethnic or religious group should be demonised to get more votes. However, I do think that immigration control is a legitimate issue, albeit a populist one. I would like the Conservatives to pull a Sarkozy on Nick Griffin.
@ Ravi Naik # 28 – “Nick Griffin is against non-white immigration and the notion that non-whites, like Loanna Morrison, should have any rights in this country. But Nick Griffin can’t say that publicly because that would be racist, so he just says he is against immigration.”
But Nick Griffin does say so publicly, look at the manifesto and the ‘Sons and Daughters’ policy …
If some Tories or unscrupulous Labourites hijack the BNP narrative on mass Third World immigration, as seems to be happening, the smarter members of the public will see through it.
We’ve ALL heard this stuff from Lib-Lab-Con in the past and we are well awre that it actually MEANS next to bugger all.
We should always try to be as accurate as possible; Sunny is not QUITE right on the issue of human rights in K.S.A.
Check out the ‘Arab News’ [Jeddah] website.
Here is a link to a story in the ‘Arab News’ of Jeddah which may be of interest:
http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article24160.ece
Incidentally, in the eyes of unswerving Salafists, in the U.K. as here, ‘Arab News’ is in the hands of munafiqoon and secularists.
However, I do think that immigration control is a legitimate issue, albeit a populist one. I would like the Conservatives to pull a Sarkozy on Nick Griffin.
Ravi – I’m not an open borders person and I agree that Labour mismanaged the impact of immigration.
But as I’ve said above – there is already plenty of ‘control’. In fact the problem is that perfectly legitimate asylum seekers get abused while harder to track criminals get away easier.
I’d rather that the parties just acknowledge the problem and do something about it humanely.
What I hate is the frothing and conspiracy crap. MM – I agree, but there is a storm of bullshit eminating here, and it’s not from lefties. We don’t live in conspiracy land on the issue. How does hyperbole ever help dealing with the issue?
March 2 2010
Sunny will be delighted to learn that a firm attitude is taken to some breaches of civil and religious law in Jazan, the southwestern port city in K.S.A.
Today’s print version of ‘Aran News’ reports that a former employee of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice [Haia] has been convcted of having 6 wives, three of them Yemeni, at the same time and has been sentenced to endure 120 lashes and to memorize the last 48 chapters of the Quran.
It will surprise no readers here to know that this fellow led prayers and prached sermons in the rural parts of Jazan.
How fascinating … Though I am at a loss to see what bearing your latest post has on the Conservatives hijacking of BNP tactics Bill Corr. Some esoteric reason I doubt me not
‘Arab News’ and not ‘Aran News’ – probably nobody on the Aran Islands has 6 wives, 3 of them Yemeni.
I stumbled across this website, it’s interesting. Especially the arguments here. I do, however, think you could try looking at the situation from a logical standpoint instead of political hubris.
Here’s one such issue: we import 40% of our food. The remaining 60% of our food is grown on mechanised factory farms. We’ve basically embedded fossil fuels into our food chain, without them the 70 million people in the UK won’t have enough food to eat. Good thing the oil’s not running out, isn’t. Ah… It’s also a good thing that our nation’s not totally bankrupt and we’ll be able to afford imports forever. Ah… Seriously, I think we’re going to be seeing an emigration problem before we see an immigration problem.