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  • Technorati: graph / links

    A point about Ali Dizaei


    by Sunny on 10th February, 2010 at 2:55 pm    

    I was going to stay out of this because there’s little good to say about an idiot copper who beat up someone over a few hundred quid and then went on to pevert the course of justice by pretending to be the victim.

    What has annoyed me however is the range of bloggers who’ve seen this as somehow vindication that Dizaei only got away with it for so long because he was non-white. Bullshit.
    Jim Jay points out:

    Dizaei was accused of spying for Iran, but there was no evidence. He was accused of using prostitutes, but there was no evidence. He was accused of fiddling his fuel mileage, but there was no evidence nor any reason to think that he had. Just as there was no reason to believe he was an illegal drug user.

    The resources the force poured into Operation Helios were phenomenal.

    They bugged his phones, his family’s phones, his friends phones. They followed him, taped him, watched him like a hawk with a team of officers assigned to his case round the clock. They even followed him to the US when he went to speak at a convention there. They intimidated his friends, lovers, even owners of restaurants he ate in. They tried a clumsy attempt at a sting operation. Even MI5 were brought in on the act.

    When all of these efforts failed to turn up one scrap of evidence worth mentioning they still tried to convict him.

    That is the full extent of this sorry story. In the end they got him - and he was an idiot for giving them the opportunity to do so. There’s also an account by Brian Paddick which carefully hints at the extent to some of this but also points out why Dizaei was an awkward one for the Met. But if you’ve had such a vendetta against by your bosses - would you be well-disposed towards them?


                  Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: Race politics






    79 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. pickles

      Blog post:: A point about Ali Dizaei http://bit.ly/ag4HmT




    1. cjcjc — on 10th February, 2010 at 3:28 pm  

      In the end they got him – and he was an idiot for giving them the opportunity to do so

      That’s a very strange turn of phrase.

      Would you say that a convicted robber had been an idiot for giving the police an opportunity to “get” him?

    2. damon — on 10th February, 2010 at 3:39 pm  

      To me, the story isn’t Ali Dizaei - but more the culture he fostered in the BPA.
      I heard it was he for example, who urged Tarique Ghaffur to take things as far as he did.
      It was (it seems) more like a trade union who fought hard against the management.
      I would not be surprised that just being a member of the BPA hindered your chances as a BME officer in the Met, as they would have been seen as the awkward squad.

      Issuing threats if their agenda wasn’t taken up.

      I just did this link on Liberal Conspiracy, but it’s ‘Mad Mell’ back in November 2003:
      http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/archives/000077.html

      I think she makes some valid points.
      There should be a BPA. It all depends how it operates.

      This is a letter from a serving black Met policeman to The Voice newspaper in 2008 about his opinion of the BPA.

      http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=14529

      ”The BPA of today I feel is now a power hungry political group operating within the Met, whose members are focused on achieving personal success by continually brow beating the Met under the banner of racism by issuing misleading press statements.”

    3. Niels Christensen — on 10th February, 2010 at 4:01 pm  

      The question is, why didn’t Dizaei pay the web designer, in the first place ? In my book high ranking and high paid public servants and especially policemen have an obligation to keep their business in order.

    4. sofia — on 10th February, 2010 at 4:25 pm  

      yeh but he still got promoted…what was that about?

    5. david prentice — on 10th February, 2010 at 4:35 pm  

      Weak, Sunny. Very weak. Dizaei was powerful and he was preying on the not-powerful. Why? Because he could.

    6. Sunny — on 10th February, 2010 at 4:39 pm  

      Mmm… yeah - the spying for Iran accusations and the bugging were clearly the work of some weak establishment cronies.

    7. Wibble — on 10th February, 2010 at 4:50 pm  

      Good article Sunny.

      There’s no love lost between Dizaei and Andy Hayman.

      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7019807.ece

      Hayman justifies £4 million spent on the earlier investigations, because the police should be “vigilant against corruption in their ranks”. The main allegations he levels are minor abuse of office** e.g. Dizaei using his position to queue jump at the petrol pumps, and overplaying the race card. Basically, according to Hayman, Dizaei knew how to “push the boundaries” and was continually doing so.

      ** apparently, Dizaei was an unusual corrupt officer because of his rank and the type of activity.

    8. Sunny — on 10th February, 2010 at 4:57 pm  

      That’s a very strange turn of phrase.

      Funny cjcjc - you’re not saying anything about the rest I’ve highlighted eh. Why could that be? Because it doesn’t fit the narrative of the black copper “playing the race card all the time”?

    9. A.C. — on 10th February, 2010 at 5:27 pm  

      Sunny, a question for you and I’d appreciate an honest answer; do you consider Ali Dizaei to be black?

    10. Hermes — on 10th February, 2010 at 5:44 pm  

      Dizaei was basically a rotten egg, but he got away with it for so long because he played the race card everytime. So, in that sense, YES he did get treated differently.

      Dizaei has set back the case for equality in the Met by a few decades because of his egotistical, bullying behaviour. A lot of other middle-ranking black police officers must be squirming with embarassment.

    11. notmarvin — on 10th February, 2010 at 6:13 pm  

      How on earth did this lying bully boy get to promoted time and again, and become President of the Black Police?

      I’m sure Dizaeis career path would have been exactly the same had he been white…

    12. notmarvin — on 10th February, 2010 at 6:14 pm  

      Why have I been banned from commenting?

      marvin.

    13. Tory — on 10th February, 2010 at 6:24 pm  

      What a ridiclous take on this Sunny. The rubbish about Iran proves nothing. Only a fool would ignore the role of the BPA here and Dizaei’s chairmanship. It decided to stick with him come what may, even though a decent few of its senior members knew he was rotten for years.

      ‘it doesn’t fit the narrative of the black copper “playing the race card all the time”?

      Err Sunny, he played the race card everytime he was charged! He and the BPA even went on record saying he was the victim of never ending racialist witch hunt! The BPA even told Londoners to boycott MET recruitment after one of his arrests! You know this to be the case, I dont understand how you can think everyone is suddenly going to forget!

      You simply have to come to terms with the fact that branding the MET ‘institutionally racist’ has led to the over promoting of incompetent minority officers. In this case it led to a thug in uniform escaping the rap for years and years.

      Whats interesting though is the definition of black the BPA use. Turns out Dizaei didn’t much like arabs but I presume the BPA also thinks they are ‘black’.

    14. Tory — on 10th February, 2010 at 6:31 pm  

      “I was going to stay out of this because there’s little good to say about an idiot copper who beat up someone over a few hundred quid and then went on to pevert the course of justice by pretending to be the victim.”

      This is even dumber on a second reading. Talk about downplaying the crimes of the bent copper. He arrested the bloke he beat the crap out of. His crimes and record is a bit worse than an argument about a ‘few hundred quid’. Are you seriously asking people to believe this was his only crime over the years? This jury alone listened to examples of him calling and threatening members of the public with violence and police harassment. Its been going on for years and the BPA did not give a ****. They wont even condemn him now and he’s been proven guilty.

    15. Sunny — on 10th February, 2010 at 6:31 pm  

      What a ridiclous take on this Sunny. The rubbish about Iran proves nothing.

      Oh right - so if your employers decided to bug everyone around you and accuse you of espionage - that’s ok then!

      n this case it led to a thug in uniform escaping the rap for years and years.

      That’s a straightforward libel.

      After years of trying to pin charges on him, they got one (which he deserves to go down for). For people who claim to believe in ‘innocent until proven guilty’ - it’s amusing how many right-wingers think he’s guilty despite having nothing to go on.

      While at the same time the appalling behaviour by the Met police is ok.

    16. Trofim — on 10th February, 2010 at 6:37 pm  

      Looking at the home page of the BPA, I notice they are, as you would expect, appropriately indeterminate about eligibility for their organisation:

      “The definition of “Black” does not refer to skin colour. The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism”.

      So, according to this definition, an asian is black? But this begs the question of “who is an asian”. Is a Japanese person a black person? If an Iranian is black, does this mean that Turks, country next door, are Asian, and therefore black? Who decides who is eligible to join the BPA? Do you decide yourself whether you are black, and automatically eligible, or do they decide on their own criteria who is black? Given the overwhelming evidence that white British people are in fact mongrels, as is inevitably cited in discussions of Britishness, and a fair proportion have a great, great, great grandparent who is black or asian, aren’t a lot of “white” people in reality “black”, if they have a “black” ancestor. What proportion of “black” genes do you have to have to be “black”? Are inhabitants of the Caucasus, such as Armenians, Georgians and Abkhaz “black” or “white”. Why isn’t there an Asian Police Association, a Swarthy Police Association? If Boris Johnson becomes a copper, will he qualify, being a quarter (or is it one eighth?) Turkish? If you have black genes but appear white, are you “black”. Can gypsies join? Mexicans? Chileans? Current theory is that native americans are descendents of people who crossed the land bridge from Siberia thousands of years ago, and are therefore asians. But, then are asians “asians”? etc. etc. etc. . . . ad infinitum.

    17. A.C. — on 10th February, 2010 at 6:55 pm  

      Brilliant piece in tonights’ Standard about Dizaei:

      http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23804067-black-police-must-disown-ali-dizaei-not-back-his-appeal.do

      I’ll take it from Sunny’s silence that he knows Dizaei is no more black than himself!

    18. Don — on 10th February, 2010 at 7:00 pm  

      Trofim,

      I’m guessing that ‘black’ applies to anyone who perceives themselves to be perceived as ‘not white’ by those around them who perceive themselves as ‘white’. And who concludes that this peception has a negative impact on them.

    19. Sunny — on 10th February, 2010 at 7:18 pm  

      Yeah, the Evening Standard has no agenda or motivation here of course:

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/sep/24/daily-mail-evening-standard-dizaei

    20. Pop Tart — on 10th February, 2010 at 7:38 pm  

      @Sunny

      Interesting that Dizaei received substantial damages from the Daily Mail.

      Suggests that his brief’s claim that Dizaei has no money and so can’t repay his defence costs or pay the prosecution costs is total cobblers.

    21. MiriamBinder — on 10th February, 2010 at 7:39 pm  

      You have to love the sheer predictability of it all - if it wasn’t so sad it would be hysterical.

      So why is there a National Black Police Association; moan, groan, weep and whine. If we are all supposed to be equal; weep, moan, whine and groan. Woe is me, alas, b’gum and begorah …

      So what is Black and how does it … and why not native Americans as they are supposedly came across from a land-bridge …. Oh aren’t I being clever.

      Well, actually no Trofim. You are being extremely predictable as anyone who had followed these sort of debates for even a couple of weeks could point out to you … Predictable and boring.

    22. MiriamBinder — on 10th February, 2010 at 7:43 pm  

      @ Pop Tart # 20 - I’m sure that if there is any money, they will find it … It took them I don’t know how long but they managed to prove Abu Hamza had assets that could go towards paying his legal bill.

      On the other hand, the fact that he received damages in the past does not necessarily mean he has money now.

    23. david prentice — on 10th February, 2010 at 7:53 pm  

      Mmm… yeah – the spying for Iran accusations and the bugging were clearly the work of some weak establishment cronies.

      Sorry. My bad. Clearly we’re talking about a good man here, whose name has been besmirched by “the Man”. As always, you have goodness and morality on your side, and anyone who suggests otherwise needs to tear off their pointy white sheet.

    24. Sunny — on 10th February, 2010 at 8:03 pm  

      david - not saying that. I’ve not defended the Black Police Association anywhere.

      My point is - to pretend the MET and the media did not have their agenda and pursued a long-standing vendetta against him (of which there is plenty of evidence) is disingenuous.

    25. Tom Johnson/highfield oval — on 10th February, 2010 at 8:03 pm  

      Absolute bollocks!

      All your highlights show is that intelligence cannot always be converted into satisfactory evidence. The one time we got this chancer into the dock it was only Tariq Ghaffur’s eulogy that convinced the Clive Stafford Smith types on the jury that got him off.

      Abusive, unprofessional and petty corruption dogged this guy’s career. My contempt for Dizaei is matched only by my contempt for Condon, Blunkett and Ian Blair for constantly backing down in the face of this shake down artist.

      The rise of Dizaei is the inevitable consequence of the ivory tower Macpherson being bounced by black power activists into a finding of ‘institutional racism’ in that infamous inquiry some years ago, ever since ‘old bill’ have been running scared confronted by an uppity race grievance merchant with a shiny PhD it was an offer they couldn’t refuse.

      Scrap the BPA the Muslim Police assoc and whatever they have for the women and treat them all the same - simples. The oft heard complaint about disproportionate disciplinary actions has been answered by Paddick as for Asian officers they have a cultural tendency to corrupt behaviour and need to be closely supervised by non Asian officers according to the Met.

    26. Refresh — on 10th February, 2010 at 8:18 pm  

      Good article Sunny.

      Macpherson has been under attack since its publication; it was quite depressing to see the likes of Bob Quick on R4 claiming the Met would have got rid of him sooner if it weren’t for the label of ‘institutional racism’.

      And then there was talk of champagne being drunk on Dizaei’s conviction.

      In truth all that this infraction tells us is the Police service has a long way to go before the ethos of integrity and equality before the law becomes real in spirit and in action. Dizaei is incidental in that regard.

      We need an enquiry into how and why £4m was burnt; and where appropriate individual officers responsible be required to pay their share back into the public purse.

    27. Refresh — on 10th February, 2010 at 8:21 pm  

      ‘and treat them all the same – simples’

      Who can disagree with that except, the reason they exist is because they were not and are not treated the same. I imagine even in the canteen they are not the same.

    28. Tory — on 10th February, 2010 at 8:56 pm  

      With regards to my ‘libel’ Sunny, take it up with the IPC. They are the ones who called him a criminal thug in a uniform.

      “In truth all that this infraction tells us is the Police service has a long way to go before the ethos of integrity and equality before the law becomes real in spirit and in action. Dizaei is incidental in that regard.”

      Ah yes, incidental, only a Commander of the MET.

      Whitey policeman should look at him like a role model!

    29. Tory — on 10th February, 2010 at 8:57 pm  

      “Abusive, unprofessional and petty corruption dogged this guy’s career.”

      Thats racist AND libel!

    30. A.C. — on 10th February, 2010 at 9:04 pm  

      Don- not being white does not automatically make one ‘black’.

      Why should black just mean non-white? Why shouldn’t it mean non-Asian, or non- any other group which is not black? Ali Dizaei is not black. Sunny Hundal is not black, and he knows it. You will struggle to find any black person that would tell you differently, except for some aged Marxist race hustlers whose number has been thoroughly called this week.

    31. Refresh — on 10th February, 2010 at 9:13 pm  

      Tory,

      ‘Ah yes, incidental, only a Commander of the MET.’

      Lets not get carried away. My comment is much more scathing than you appear to realise. It points to the wider culture, which has been under scrutiny from as far back as I care to remember - and yet we still have incidents like this one.

      You would be right to say, the correct action was taken by the Met. in this case - the question arises why not in all cases?

      And of course you may also want to ask, why the champagne?

    32. Refresh — on 10th February, 2010 at 9:17 pm  

      AC, why the infatuation with the political term ‘black’?

      If the BPA saw Dizaei as its flag-bearer then surely you are out of step with all those black (using your definition) members.

      Presumably you are not black (your definition) considering you declare yourself to be of dual-heritage (my term)?

    33. Tom Johnson/highfield oval — on 10th February, 2010 at 9:25 pm  

      ‘Thats racist AND libel!’

      Truth is a defence against libel.

      Have you bothered to read the accounts of Andy Hayman Bob Quick Roy Ramm, Ian Johnston and any number of promotion’s boards who had the misfortune to cross this chancer’s path. As for his, shall we say, romantic life, that would make a pole cat blush.

    34. A.C. — on 10th February, 2010 at 10:26 pm  

      Refresh, your stance on all this puts you decisively on the ‘non-refreshing’ side of what is happening these days. Stale old 20th century race politics.

      Your phrase “The political term ‘black’” sums up the problem. You are still trying to cast black as a political term, the rest of us have moved on.

    35. Trofim — on 10th February, 2010 at 10:33 pm  

      Communicators have an obligation to minimise ambiguity:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Grice#Conversational_Maxims

      Maxim of Manner: Clarity

      * Avoid obscurity of expression. (“Eschew obfuscation”)
      * Avoid ambiguity.

      There is a proliferation of adjective “blacks”. Why don’t they just call themselves the “Non-white Police Association”? Or is that a naive question? And while we’re about it, since a certain subset of the asian population has appropriated the term “asian” for themselves, how about utilising a more accurate nomenclature?

    36. A.C. — on 10th February, 2010 at 10:52 pm  

      Trofim,

      If they re-named it the Non-White Police Association it would help to pave the way for a White Police Association and the race hustlers don’t want that.

    37. Trofim — on 10th February, 2010 at 11:08 pm  

      I myself don’t object to freedom of association. Why shouldn’t white police form their own organisation Putting the cat among the pigeons can be a useful tactic. Goose, gander.

    38. Refresh — on 10th February, 2010 at 11:09 pm  

      AC,
      Well it used to be an expression of solidarity for shared experience. And it is the experience which determines how people organise and describe themselves politically.

      If things had moved on (presumably you mean for the better), I suspect this incident may be a sign of it all moving backwards. Lets see shall we.

    39. Ravi Naik — on 10th February, 2010 at 11:42 pm  

      “My point is – to pretend the MET and the media did not have their agenda and pursued a long-standing vendetta against him (of which there is plenty of evidence) is disingenuous”

      I am somewhat puzzled at your take on this issue, and I would really like to know what prompted this national-wide conspiracy against this corrupt cop.

      In any case, I agree with the following:

      Dizaei has set back the case for equality in the Met by a few decades because of his egotistical, bullying behaviour. A lot of other middle-ranking black police officers must be squirming with embarassment.

      and

      The BPA even told Londoners to boycott MET recruitment after one of his arrests! You know this to be the case, I dont understand how you can think everyone is suddenly going to forget! You simply have to come to terms with the fact that branding the MET ‘institutionally racist’ has led to the over promoting of incompetent minority officers. In this case it led to a thug in uniform escaping the rap for years and years.

    40. Kulvinder — on 11th February, 2010 at 12:23 am  

      I don’t get it; or maybe i do.

      Those (frankly bizarrely) criticising this website for not mentioning dizaei are ‘okay’ with race and identity issues ‘being discussed’ in this case because it suits their narrative, but if its done in any other context its ‘playing the race card’

      oh i see

      do you consider Ali Dizaei to be black?

      If he perceives himself as black id have no problem accepting his sense of self. Why do you prefer telling people what they are or aren’t?

    41. Refresh — on 11th February, 2010 at 12:39 am  

      ‘Do the mods here regard that as a breach of convention? I hope so.’

      I believe it is. I recall Rumbold taking a commenter to task on a similar breach.

    42. A.C. — on 11th February, 2010 at 12:54 am  

      Kulvinder, Iraqis are not black, African/Carribean people are black. It’s ridiculous to try and call all non White people black.

      You might not see this, but the vast majority of voters do…

    43. A.C. — on 11th February, 2010 at 12:55 am  

      Thanks Refresh, that IS refreshing x

    44. Refresh — on 11th February, 2010 at 1:07 am  

      AC,

      If I was to take your line, I would argue that Caribbean people are not all black. There is a mix eg chinese, south asian and so it goes. The W Indies cricket team demonstrates the point.

      And similarly for African, Zimbabwe and South Africa have significant populations of whites; and the continent has south asians and so it goes.

    45. Sunny — on 11th February, 2010 at 1:15 am  

      Trofim : Why don’t they just call themselves the “Non-white Police Association”? Or is that a naive question?

      Happy to educate you. Black was used in the 70s and 80s as a ‘political term’ rather than an actual description, and for some it’s stuck. It’s easier than using some other phrase which is just cumbersome. It’s really as useless as using ‘Asian’ or using ‘white’ because they don’t really differentiate between ethnicity and nationality either. But people still use ‘white’ don’t they?

      As for people setting up a white police association - well, that’s up to them. But the BPA is not racially exclusive. It merely acts as a sounding board and refuge for officers who have actually faced racism within the police.

      Now, there are tons of documented cases of racism against minority officers in the police. I don’t have much sympathy for an institution that remains in the 18th century while London around it has changed. So before people start asking for terminology to move into the 21st century - perhaps they should ask why the Met Police isn’t there.

    46. Sunny — on 11th February, 2010 at 2:16 am  

      Also, for example, there is the Southall BLACK Sisters. I’m waiting for a campaign to get them to change that even though it would make no sense.

    47. damon — on 11th February, 2010 at 5:21 am  

      The police has a command structure more like the army than your ‘right on’ local council.
      Promotion and progression isn’t just granted on a simple formula of time served and ticking the right boxes. Your face really does have to fit.
      And my guess is that the police (in this regard) are less racist are given credit for.

      It’s not officers race that is the key, but their other qualities.

      Tarique Ghaffur’s accusations were absolutely ridiculous. He felt frozen out from the top inner circle he said. Obviously because of his race and religion he complained. What other reason could there be?

      That way of looking at things is the core of this issue. He thought it could only be racial and religious prejudice. Not that some senior officers might had thought he was over promoted in the first place (like Ken Livingstone has also suggested), or that he might have been a bit of a whiner, making noises about wanting to work on past retirement age because he wanted to be in charge of policing the olympics, and then adding ”age discrimination” to his charges against the Met. (Encouraged in this by Ali Dizaie I have read.)

      The police are always going to react badly when they feel they are being ”bounced” or strongarmed.

      Writing a book called ”Not one of us” which even its title points to the Met’s racism, and then insisting on promotion to Commander - ”or else”.

      I can understand why there was some champagne being drunk at the top ranks of the Met.

    48. Roob — on 11th February, 2010 at 8:20 am  

      The term BLACK is used because they are the most corrupt & evil part of the police force. Since the police got rid of the obsolete Peels principles, they have become increasingly proud of their immorality, and choose their department names to demonstrate this.

    49. A.C. — on 11th February, 2010 at 8:27 am  

      Thanks to whoever cleaned up the name-calling.

      Back to the thread: the fact that black has stuck with some campaigners as a political term is part of a fabric of reasons that ordinary people are falling out of love with race politics.

      Especially to the youngest voters, born after the 80s, it looks stupid to call an Iranian man black when he is clearly not. It is obvious to younger minds that the MBPA is racially exclusive in that it excludes whites. It also looks discriminatory not to allow whites their own association, when Labour are saying that non-whites do not automatically face discrimination any more.

      The Westminster contingent of the centre-left understands this. It is a matter of time until the rest of the left catches up. Leaving behind 20th century race politics will help shorten their stay in opposition.

    50. Refresh — on 11th February, 2010 at 9:31 am  

      AC,

      Your last comment is a reasonable sign that you are beginning to make progress. You seem to be saying that those born after 1980 do not share the same experience as those before them.

      On a general note - here is another observation on vindictiveness (no BPA member in sight):

      ‘Anti-police NUM leader Ian Lavery offered safe Labour seat at Wansbeck’

      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7022511.ece

    51. cjcjc — on 11th February, 2010 at 10:40 am  

      Yeah, the Met hated him so much that they (ie we) paid for him to address pro-regime rally in Iran while on suspension.

      Fantastic.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249775/The-day-General-Dizaei-met-Iranian-president-guess-paid-trip.html

    52. Refresh — on 11th February, 2010 at 10:47 am  

      ‘Yeah, the Met hated him so much that they (ie we) paid for him to address pro-regime rally in Iran while on suspension’

      So what is going on? If the Met paid him to go then you have to ask what was the mission he was sent on.

      This is all very odd. Don’t you (ever) think?

    53. cjcjc — on 11th February, 2010 at 10:50 am  

      “Mission”?

      You’ve been watching too much James Bond.

    54. Refresh — on 11th February, 2010 at 11:03 am  

      Clearly your source seems to want to suggest some ‘Bondinejad’ tendencies.

      The question surely is why is he paid to go. To most it would seem incredible that he would, could, should go whilst suspended. What was the Met up to?

      I can see this is all going to get very uncomfortable for a few people, including ministers of state.

    55. Wibble — on 11th February, 2010 at 11:15 am  

      Damon @47

      “The police has a command structure more like the army than your ‘right on’ local council.

      Promotion and progression isn’t just granted on a simple formula of time served and ticking the right boxes. Your face really does have to fit.”

      What do you mean by “Your face really does have to fit.” ? If they’re not ‘right on’ they can’t be biased towards minorities, but if the ‘face fits’ they do have some bias, no ?

    56. Wibble — on 11th February, 2010 at 11:40 am  

      “I’m sure Dizaeis career path would have been exactly the same had he been white…”

      Typical Marvin comment - a non-white person in a senior role got there for some reason other than merit.

    57. dampn — on 11th February, 2010 at 12:17 pm  

      What I mean Wibble , is that firstly, the police is bound to be a somewhat conservative organisation.
      Given the nature of it’s command structure at one end and the rank and file officers at the other.
      No one will bat an eyelid at anyone reading the Daily Mail in the police canteen, but reading Socialist Worker would definately be noticed as odd.

      I think that there is a need for a BPA of some sorts, but there’s not much use trying to be pushy about things (like I think the BPA have been) as it will backfire when it comes up against a conservative culture. All that happens then is that accusations like ”institutional racism” get thrown, and that P’s of all sections of the police even more.

      My point is that I think the BPA might have been coming across in a too confrontational manner, and that the top of the Met probably considered it as a retrograde association.

      And that if you were a member of it, then ”your face might not fit” as you might be seen as having divided loyalties.

      It seems from what I’ve heard of the BPA, they encouraged victim culture based on race.

      So you have officers being encouraged to believe the reason why they have failed to make detective after several attempts at trying, is all down to the prejudice of white officers to the colour of their skin. Nothing else.

      Even Ian Blair was accused of being personally racist for goodness sake. When this happens, people like police will start whispering amongst themselves and might think they have to be careful and watch what they say around BME officers who are in the BPA.

      The hectoring style that you get at diversity awarness seminars that many police forces send their people on is bound to rub some people up the wrong way.

      Espicially serving police officers who might think that the person telling them all about ”race awarness”, hasn’t got a clue what it’s actually like to police.

      The trouble with Ali Dizaei I think, was that he was pushing too hard, and giving people the idea that that was the way to do it. If you don’t get what you think is fair, complain. Bring formal proceedings, and if you think there was racism involved to bring that up.
      And maybe you’ll get what you want.
      You’ll get your promotion or whatever.

      That might work a few times, but is also an extremly divisive strategy for an association like the BPA to follow, as it will get everyone’s backs up after a short time.

      I do think that there should be a close working relationship within the police, between a BPA type association and the command structure, as there is so much that needs to be sorted ouy when it comes to policing diverse communities.

      I think that Dizaei’s approach made that more unlikely to be happening and hopefully this could be the chance to start afresh.

    58. Shamit — on 11th February, 2010 at 12:39 pm  

      Dizaei is a thug and a corrupt officer - there is no denying that. And, I do not believe this is the only instance he overplayed his hand - there has been rumours and complaints against him from the public before as well.

      Using Dizaei as a reference point for all minorities is wrong and we seem to be doing just that on this thread. He is a thug who has nothing but contempt for the law.

      However, those who point out that MET is racist is self evident when the highest ranking minority officer Tarique Ghafoor left the police service and was awarded £300k for his racism claims against Ian Blair and the Met.

      Apparently, the security services have more minority officers as a percentage than the Met - why is that? Those are questions that need to be asked and how come we have so few senior minority police offiers in the United Kingdom - far less proportional than the overall population. One reason is that many educated minorities do not choose the police service as a career but there is an element of bias against them as has been proven through many documentaries etc etc.

      However, that is no fucking defence for this asshole
      Dizaei - any criminal is bad but one wearing a uniform is the worst kind.

      The BPA should shun him as should all groups working towards ensuring minorities get a fair say. And not let this thug get in the way of legitimate claims.

    59. Golam Murtaza — on 11th February, 2010 at 2:05 pm  

      Yeah, what Shamit says.

      Weird that the Tehran-born Dizaei FINALLY gets shafted due to falling out with a guy called al-Baghdadi.

    60. damon — on 12th February, 2010 at 4:42 am  

      I disagree with Shamit about Tarique Ghaffur.
      There is nothing ”self evident” about proving the Met is racist because he received 300,000 as a buy-off. Plenty of other things might lead you to that conclusion maybe, but not that.
      This was politics pure and simple (it seems).

      The Met was feeling the pressure from this race row and the BPA’s hostile stance - and just decided (or was forced) to brush it all under the carpet.

      Does anyone really think that Ian Blair was a personal racist? That’s what Ghaffur claimed.

      If inappropriate accusations of ‘racism’ are made, over time it undermines the very meaning of the word.

      I think prejudice against someone’s religion though is understandable. For example, Tony Blair’s christianity turned me off him from the start. (What a wierdo).
      Maybe practicing muslims will also seem a bit odd to their largely secular colleagues at work.
      Praying and fasting during the working day?? - it certainly led Ali Dizaie to think he was ”Not one of us”.

      Charlieman on the Liberal Conspiracy site also made this recommendation which I would recommend to:
      ”And if the Dizaei story is a bit of a mystery to you, just google for “Dean solicitor Dizaei”. Much racism but also illumination.”

      See the story from Police News? Maybe Brian Paddick was also part of the ”smear campaign ” against Dizaei.

    61. Refresh — on 13th February, 2010 at 12:48 am  

      Finally - someone’s recognised the real issue behind Dizaei’s behaviour and subsequent conviction. Its not Macpherson, its institutionalised behaviour:

      ‘Root out corrupt officers, police told

      Watchdog says conviction of Ali Dizaei is a wake-up call to forces

      ‘In the wide-ranging interview, Mr Hardwick also called upon the Government to give the IPCC more powers.

      “We are becoming complacent about corruption and I think the Dizaei case should be a wake-up call,” he said. “To say it has gone away would be a very bad mistake. There are no forces that are free of corruption and you should be most worried about the forces that tell you they are free of corruption.” ‘

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/root-out-corrupt-officers-police-told-1898139.html

      The champagne was out too soon I would say.

      And I go further and say those officers that cheered at Dizaei’s departure are probably more prone to exhibiting the same behaviour. If they accepted it as one way of getting rid of a thorn.

    62. Refresh — on 13th February, 2010 at 1:07 am  

      Damon, I read Paddick’s comments you refer to and can say thank goodness he never made it anywhere in politics. If he could not see the fundamental issue with the case then he is of no use as an elected representative other than for say a closed shop.

    63. damon — on 13th February, 2010 at 5:06 am  

      Refresh, I wasn’t too impressed with Paddick when he made his bid for London mayor. He came across as a bit of a lightweight when interviewed I thought.
      He makes better points about this case though.

      But to me it’s not so much about corruption. It doesn’t seem that Dizaei was that corrupt, but that he was being insubordinate and taking the mick.
      And using the BPA as both a shield and a sord against the top brass.

      That in my opinion is a perfectly good enough reason for them setting out to get him. And for the start of this so called smear campaign. (From their point of view I mean). It wasn’t that he was an officer of Iranian origin and a muslim.
      If he’s been OK (in their eyes) that would probably have made no difference at all. It was his behavior and attitude that wound them up.

    64. Refresh — on 13th February, 2010 at 4:47 pm  

      Damon,

      ‘It doesn’t seem that Dizaei was that corrupt, but that he was being insubordinate and taking the mick.’

      I am not sure he was. There are times when you need to break a few eggs to make an omellete. You need to look at how trade unions operate and the language they use as a part of their negotiations strategies. The BPA is a trade union of sorts as is the Police Federation. At leadership level I expect politics to be central on both sides.

      A far greater concern is the abuse of power, in particular when it comes to dealing with the public. That is the institutionalised behaviour you have to be concerned with. And its quite logical that Macpherson is a subset of that wider malaise. If integrity and priniciple was the driving force for all police, then there would never have been a need for Macpherson.

      Looking to the future, the BPA would be well placed to carry that mantle from here on in.

    65. notmarvin — on 13th February, 2010 at 4:55 pm  

      Typical Marvin comment – a non-white person in a senior role got there for some reason other than merit.

      Yes the other reason being a person who knows they can throw around the race card, like this man has repeatedly, to get what he wants.

    66. Refresh — on 13th February, 2010 at 5:10 pm  

      Sunny, when did you ban Marvin?

      You should have told us - we could have thrown a party.

    67. Rumbold — on 13th February, 2010 at 7:10 pm  

      Marvin isn’t banned. He just keeps getting caught in the spam filter, for which, apologies.

      We are always happy to tell people when they have been banned.

    68. Muslim — on 13th February, 2010 at 8:41 pm  

      Hermes

      Dizaei has set back the case for equality in the Met by a few decades because of his egotistical, bullying behaviour. A lot of other middle-ranking black police officers must be squirming with embarassment.

      A revealing comment. Why on earth would other Black/non-white officers be effected other than if the organisation they worked for judged people on the basis of race ?

    69. damon — on 14th February, 2010 at 2:04 am  

      Refresh - I think that’s the issue. If the BPA was behaving like a trade union then that’s not going to work in something like the police or army.
      A BPA, (for it to work) would have to be working hand in hand with the rest of the force - and be respected by it. Otherwise you’ll end up with this ”them and us” situation - which will probably work against the interests of BPA members.

    70. A.C. — on 14th February, 2010 at 9:31 am  

      Brilliant piece in today’s Times on Dizaei:

      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/dominic_lawson/article7026302.ece

      “The only thing black about Commander Ali Dizaei is his hair dye…

      One of the most depressing aspects of the racial politics of modern policing, as demonstrated by the career of Ali Dizaei, is that it has deliberately divided the public it serves into the “white community” and the “black community”. It is racism by another name.”

      Scorching.

    71. notmarvin — on 14th February, 2010 at 11:32 am  

      That is a scorcher A.C.

      I wasn’t aware of this

      since the Metropolitan Police Authority was set up in 2000, in the wake of the Macpherson report, it has not been in the power of the Met to control its senior appointments. In the name of political “accountability”, all titles of commander and above have been put entirely in the gift of a group of local political figures.

      Yet Labour politicians have been squeaking about the Tory threat to police independence by allowing commanders to be elected by the public! The ‘politicisation’ of the police force has already happened and is in effect.

    72. notmarvin — on 14th February, 2010 at 1:58 pm  

      Sunny’s favourite journalist on ‘institutional anti-racism’ and Ali Dizaei

    73. A.C. — on 14th February, 2010 at 7:45 pm  

      Nice one notmarvin, that’s rocket stuff.

      No way should Liddle edit the Indy. He’s far too smart for a failing rag like that.

    74. douglas clark — on 14th February, 2010 at 7:56 pm  

      If what Liddle says here is true:

      Ali Dizaei will have undoubtedly been helped by the most explicit piece of institutional anti-racism you could wish to imagine: that the Metropolitan Police must, by order, consider allegations of racism to be de facto true and beyond dispute. That if someone says they have been subjected to racism, then they have been, and there’s an end to it. No inquiry, no investigation; their perceived racial slight is a fact, an unalterable truth. You imagine how this judicial innovation must have been greeted by Dizaei. He could pretty much henceforth do no wrong, by law. If he complained of racism to his bosses in the Met they had no alternative but to concur. You can blame the last, unlamented, commissioner Sir Ian Blair for that.

      that’s kind of shocking.

    75. A.C. — on 14th February, 2010 at 10:57 pm  

      douglas clark that is bread and butter stuff after the Macpherson report. The definition of racism used by Macpherson is anything that anyone perceives to be racist. So if you perceive it to be racist, it has to be racist (as long as you are not white).

    76. douglas clark — on 14th February, 2010 at 11:14 pm  

      Well, that would be wrong, wouldn’t it?

      It seems obvious that everyone has to bring evidence to a debate? It cannot be assumed that, because I am ginger, I have the stage?

      Bloody hell, I could have been Commissioner, had I played my hair right,and not lost it. ‘Course I’d have had to be a policeman.

      Seriously, if true, that is fucked up.

    77. damon — on 15th February, 2010 at 12:28 am  

      Douglas, try this (from ten years ago).

      http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/00000000558B.htm

    78. A.C. — on 15th February, 2010 at 7:01 am  

      How could any human being with even half a brain cell use a term coined by the Black Panthers in a British report of that magnitude?

      No agenda there then!

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