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  • Yasmin A-B on Channel 4′s Indian Winter


    by Sunny
    2nd February, 2010 at 9:33 am    

    Ouch!

    One dancer said it all: “I tried to watch. I don’t mind them being critical of ‘Incredible India’, which does not look after its poor. But these guys were clueless, flying in and taking over our stories and realities. I object to that.”

    We now have black and Asian newsreaders but note that after 30 years Newsnight has had no black interrogator. Multiracial casting in soaps and drama is now common and top roles do now go to black and Asian actors – Adrian Lester in Hustle, Nina Wadia in EastEnders. Yet watch The Bill and Midsomer Murders – two very different worlds – and almost all the actors are white.

    Black and Asian Britons are still not considered good enough when it comes to witty shows. The same old, same old white comedians appear on Never Mind the Buzzcocks, Argumental, QI, Mock the Week. Omid Djalili, Shappi Khorsandi and Shazia Mirza do gain entry and maybe a couple of others, but night after night after night, like Alan Davies? Of course not. Go on the comedy circuit and you get the many faces of our laughing nation, from hilarious Sikhs to outrageously un-PC Muslims and Zimbabweans.

    Why are we still having to bang on about the obvious? Laziness, nepotism, a self-limiting circle of contacts and information, lack of curiosity and humility and most of all the hubris that defines and holds back British TV.

    The last bit is true, and applies to the media industry as a whole, but it is also what will kill the industry. So while Y A-B is spot on about most of the stuff in that article, she still has too much regard for the TV industry in a way I don’t.

    I sometimes watch news television, which is now also very formulaic - but the idea that the next generation is going to be defined by this closed industry no longer holds true. Oh and the bit about the Indian Winter is bang on too.


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    1. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 11:01 am  

      I noticed that your only alllowed to slate whitey publically like this if your married to one of them? Strange.

    2. platinum786 — on 2nd February, 2010 at 11:39 am  

      I don’t get this lady. What does she want? Positive discrimination for Asians on TV? I don’t know much about the professional side of TV, so I may be totally wrong, but surely if your talented enough, you’ll come through?

    3. sofia — on 2nd February, 2010 at 11:52 am  

      Platinum..if jobs were based on talent alone then there’d be a lot more blacks, asians, women etc in top jobs and we wouldn’t need race or gender equality legislation etc…

    4. sofia — on 2nd February, 2010 at 11:54 am  

      and I totally agree on the whole india winter season..it was lazy and lame…apparently India is Mumbai..and Mumbai slums at that..but it’s ok..we got Om shanti om..is that all India has to offer?

    5. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 11:58 am  

      Bollocks to that plat786. If you’re ‘Asian’ you’re only going to get a break if you are:

      1) A pretty women (preferably married to a white man)

      2) A apeing wog type - you know, a brown man who can outdo whites at being white. The BBC specialises in these types of fuckers.

      3) A talentless, non-threatening buffoon/clown (i.e. Hardeep Kohli)

      4) Someone who is willing to openly mock/degrade/insult their own community, but not for any positive constructive purpose but rather to make whitey feel good and less threatened.

      I don’t fully understand this bizzare neurotic streak towards virile, independent minded foreign men but I suspect it is yet another hang up from the old imperial brainfuck many suffer from?

      I could probably add a few more to the list…..

    6. Jai — on 2nd February, 2010 at 12:20 pm  

      and I totally agree on the whole india winter season..it was lazy and lame…apparently India is Mumbai..and Mumbai slums at that..but it’s ok..we got Om shanti om..is that all India has to offer?

      Well, they also showed “Dhoom 2″ and “Rang de Basanti”, although unfortunately “Jodhaa-Akbar” was shown at a ridiculous time after midnight. God forbid that anyone in Britain’s majority non-Asian population gets a decent opportunity to see an award-winning film set during a period when India was responsible for nearly a quarter of the world’s GDP (at the time, Britain’s contribution wasn’t even 2%), let alone anything about the greatest and most enlightened Mughal emperor (and one of the greatest rulers in India’s entire history).

      Yasmin Alibhai-Brown’s complaints about the “Indian Winter” season are spot-on — it’s the equivalent of an Indian television channel showing a series of programmes about the most poverty-stricken, uneducated sections of British society, naming it “British Summer”, and showing practically nothing else about modern British life at all.

      I thought this part of her article was particularly accurate:

      Way back in 1982, Salman Rushdie pointed out that imperialist assumptions were still alive and well and playing out in the Motherland: “Those attitudes are in operation right here as well, here in what E P Thompson has described as the last colony of the British Empire. It sometimes seems that the British authorities, no longer capable of exporting governments, have chosen instead to import a new Empire, a new community of subject peoples of whom they think, and with whom they can deal, in very much the same way as their predecessors thought of and dealt with “the fluttered folk and wild”… who made up, for Rudyard Kipling, the White Man’s Burden… 400 years of conquest and looting, four centuries of being told that you are superior to the fuzzy-wuzzies and the wogs, leave their stain. This stain has seeped into every part of the culture.”

      The good news is that since Rushdie’s powerful analysis was broadcast, as it happens, on Channel 4, many creative white people no longer carry the colonial gene, approach the non-white world with learned minds and open hearts, respect and intimacy. Danny Boyle is the exemplar; directors Tim Supple and Jude Kelly, Fergal Keane and William Dalrymple also come to mind. But too many others, particularly in the world of television, if anything are getting more imperious as the geopolitical plates shift.

      I think Britain losing its economic and cultural dominance compels these movers and shakers (maybe unconsciously) to cut down the winners, render them, reduce them to caricatures or shapeless, nameless polyps in the inner landscape of the occidental mind. Societal changes here add to the panic perhaps, activating patriotic protectionism. With talented young British Asians, Africans and Caribbeans getting more ambitious and expecting to sit at the mainstream table, broadcasters turn away or work to a hidden quota so the infiltrators are not seen any more than they must. It is a battle they will lose. Eventually. Inevitably.

      These observations sometimes apply to other sections of British society in 2010, too.

    7. over yonder — on 2nd February, 2010 at 12:24 pm  

      Dalbir,

      i actually very much enjoyed hardeep’s book about cooking his way around India. Very witty, thoughtful and full of comedy moments. I do agree with your other statements, though.
      Omid Djalili gets by on pretending to be a self-denigrating Arab. He knows ver well that Persians (his own background) are culturally and behaviourally very different to Arabs but the majority of his audience are not aware of this diffence. and so his loud mouthed Arab routine isn’t seen for the racist piece of spite that it is. he’s an Iranian Bahai (possibly with some undelying grievances) playing at being an Arab Muslim. Black and white minstral, anyone?

    8. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 12:39 pm  

      Over yonder

      Maybe his [Hardeep's] written work is better than his screen work then?

      BTW I had heard Djalili was an Ishmaili?

      So you’re saying he is a Farsi pretending to be an Arab…..lol!

    9. Jai — on 2nd February, 2010 at 1:06 pm  

      Omid Djalili is actually subversively ridiculing Western stereotyped assumptions about people from the Middle East, rather than actually insulting them himself. He also makes it very clear during his live performances that he’s actually Iranian, although not before he’s played that game of the fake accent, fake behaviour and fake opinions as a mirror to the prejudices about Middle Eastern people that many people have. He drops the act fairly early during his shows after he’s made his point.

      For a much more risque version, Russell Peters’ “Red, White and Brown” stand-up show is superb. It was filmed at New York’s Madison Square Garden, has a huge audience, and Comedy Central show it occasionally (it’s also available on DVD). Russell is clearly going down the Chris Rock path of pushing the boundaries as far as possible these days.

    10. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 1:35 pm  

      Russell Peter’s doesn’t business with putting the boot straight into whitey, no holds barred. Not like terrified, kowtowing British raised ‘effniks’. Imagine a brown comedian saying this in England, whitey would be ‘incensed’ and falling over themselves in conspiracies to kill his career.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrb141hw6tI

    11. africana — on 2nd February, 2010 at 2:09 pm  

      jai, that’s an interesting point regarding djalili. i do think you wouldn’t come away with a view of him as a subversive based on his appearnces in variety shows which don’t give an opportunity to fully engage with his audiences. i came away with a very negative impression of djalili based on a c4 documentary he did on kurdish asylum seekers in hull. unknown to the kurdish guys, who were very ospitable with him in spite of heir meagre income, djalili spent the whole time ridiculing them as womanising, sexual obsessives. he came off as a realy exploitative character. he was also very denigrating to muslims (in a way that a non-middle easterner couldn’t get away with, even though he’s in the same league) when he started throwing himsef around a boxing ring shouting “Allahu Akbar”, in a consciously mocking fashion.

    12. Kulvinder — on 2nd February, 2010 at 2:26 pm  

      I tried to watch. I don’t mind them being critical of ‘Incredible India’, which does not look after its poor. But these guys were clueless, flying in and taking over our stories and realities. I object to that

      I like the juxtaposition of ‘be critical’ and ‘how dare you be critical of our stories’

      On the one hand people don’t mind criticism about ‘incredible india’ on the other they don’t want anyone focusing on the poverty.

      Right.

      There were elements about the programs that were shite, and yes it could have been better, and yes ultimately the best such documentries are made by people who are critical of their own societies and present a more nuanced point of view; but that doesn’t negate the arguments or opinions of those who ‘fly in’

      The whole ‘how dare they come here and show poverty and take our stories’ argument is little more than the ‘chippy indian’ comment that KGM made on his twitter in reply to sunny.

      Gordon Ramsey flew into america and swore at them, he did the same in australia, new zealand and any other country he could get a commission for.

      Its what he does.

      Yes its crap, but it isn’t any more crap because hes doing it to indians.

      There have been equally crap programmes in the past that were presented and written by ‘asians’ that weren’t nearly as ‘controversial’.

    13. over yonder — on 2nd February, 2010 at 2:29 pm  

      the comment at 11., by africana is mine. I just put in the wrong username when I typed the comment.

    14. Kulvinder — on 2nd February, 2010 at 2:40 pm  

      Russell Peter’s doesn’t business with putting the boot straight into whitey

      Oh god, thats brilliant. Let me bask in the irony of your comment Dalbir. A fairly dreary tuesday has been improved upon massively by the above sentence.

      You hold up an anglo-indian (emphasis gloriously mine) whose ancestry mainly consists of ‘whitey’ having it off with one of the ‘brownies’, and whose relations in the not too distant past would have been a step above you in the social hierarchy of the empire; a christian with an anglo name, is held up by you as an example of the ‘brown man’ putting the boot in.

      If i were being really cruel id point out the insecurity of having to rely on a ‘half-whitey’ as someone to look up to (whats the problem too dark?).

      As it is, i personally, have no problem with intermarriage or the fact that Russell Peters is ‘a slightly darker white man’ (for lack of a better expression) making fun out of other people.

    15. over yonder — on 2nd February, 2010 at 3:00 pm  

      dalbir,

      “BTW I had heard Djalili was an Ishmaili?”

      he’s not, but Yasmin Ailbhai-brown is (well, according to this article)http://www.newstatesman.com/200010230023
      which makes you wonder why she seen as a spokesperson for mainstream muslim women.

    16. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 3:13 pm  

      He doesn’t see himself as a white man or half whitey Kulvinder. It’s just your twisted self-hate - sycophantic shit being manifest….again.

      Also what makes you think I look up to him? I think he is funny and spot on with some of his stuff, some is complete crap though.

      If there is anyone with insecurities about themselves here, it’s you. You’re so desperate for you jump at any offer of a shaft over the net. You’re about as classy as a ‘Primark sale’ girl (your own words). Get some self esteem. Your brown - deal with it.

    17. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 3:23 pm  

      @15

      That is dodgy though, people trying to represent something they aren’t.

      If that is true about YAB, she needs to pipe down a bit as many Muslims she purportedly reps for wouldn’t consider her as being one of their own.

      In any case the fact she is lionised by the mainstream and is married to a white non-Muslim makes me think she is living a world away from the people she thinks she speaks for. Very unrepresentative - but go back to my post #5, she probably fits in there snuggly somewhere.

    18. Jai — on 2nd February, 2010 at 3:44 pm  

      Not like terrified, kowtowing British raised ‘effniks’. Imagine a brown comedian saying this in England,

      “Goodness Gracious Me” was often pretty outspoken about challenging racist attitudes towards (and stereotypes of) Asians — kicking off most famously with the “Going for an English” sketch — and it was quite controversial in some quarters because of that. None of the participants were either terrified or kowtowing — the opposite, in fact. They still aren’t, especially when it comes to this sort of thing.

      More recently, Shappi Khorsandi’s stand-up gigs are often similarly blunt about that kind of patronising or bigoted behaviour; so is Omid Djalili (in his case focusing more ignorant attitudes towards Muslims and/or Middle Eastern people), although I admit that I haven’t seen the documentary about Kurds mentioned in #11.

      Djalili’s shows do consciously make an effort to increase mutual understanding between white people and (for want of a better term) brown folk — and during some of his televised stand-up gigs he’s explicitly stated that this is the deliberate intention. A really nice gesture which I noticed at the end of one of his recent TV shows was when he just sang brief Muslim and Jewish prayers, quietly, very seriously, and in succession, to subtly-but-clearly emphasise the need to find similarities over differences. It was a poignant way to end the show and I thought he made the point brilliantly.

      he’s not, but Yasmin Ailbhai-brown is (well, according to this article)http://www.newstatesman.com/200010230023
      which makes you wonder why she seen as a spokesperson for mainstream muslim women.

      Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is Indian. As far as Indians are concerned, especially her fellow Gujaratis (both Muslims and Hindus), she’s Muslim.

      In any case the fact she is lionised by the mainstream and is married to a white non-Muslim makes me think she is living a world away from the people she thinks she speaks for. Very unrepresentative

      Not necessarily. She’s a pretty accurate representation of the more affluent elements of the Indian Muslim population here in Britain (along with the average educated Muslim back in India), and some of the more liberal elements of the Pakistani population here.

    19. Jai — on 2nd February, 2010 at 3:54 pm  

      ^^

      so is Omid Djalili (in his case focusing more ignorant attitudes towards Muslims and/or Middle Eastern people),

      Typo: Should say “….focusing on more ignorant attitudes towards Muslims…..”

    20. over yonder — on 2nd February, 2010 at 3:55 pm  

      “he just sang brief Muslim and Jewish prayers, quietly, very seriously, ”
      that’s a side to djalili i wasn’t aware of.

      “Very unrepresentative – but go back to my post #5, she probably fits in there snuggly somewhere.”

      i see your point.

    21. Jai — on 2nd February, 2010 at 4:01 pm  

      By the way, for PP readers who don’t know, Bollywood superstar Shahrukh Khan is one of the main guests on Jonathan Ross’s chat show on BBC1 this Friday night.

    22. Kulvinder — on 2nd February, 2010 at 4:04 pm  

      He doesn’t see himself as a white man or half whitey Kulvinder.

      Oh i agree, and thats my point. You’re the one who proscribes identity and attributes on people. He self-identifies himself and im more than happy for him to do that.

      If he said something you didn’t agree with you’re the one who’d start with the racist stereotyping - his ‘whiteyness’.

      I think he is funny and spot on with some of his stuff, some is complete crap though.

      Well quite, a bit like channel 4′s ‘indian winter’ then.

      And like Peters; the ethnicity of those who presented or made the programmes is irrelevant to whether the programmes were ‘good’ or not.

      Someone ‘white’ making as bad a job of ‘india with sanjeev bhaskar’ as he did wouldn’t have made the programme inherently worse.

      The laughable aspect of all this is people are only complaining because the presenters were ‘white’, other crap programmes had been made by by ‘asians’ but they passed without comment. Yet when Gordon Ramsey behaves as idiotically in india as in the US, the entire argument shifts towards one that encompasses racism and the ‘white people’ having ‘superiority issues’ with indians when the only reason the complaints started was because the presenters were white!

      By their logic i could make the argument that those complaining are only doing so because they have an inferiority complex towards ‘white people’; that they need constant reassurance and when instead what they got was mediocre criticism and a swearing scotsman they were omg offended

      Your brown – deal with it.

      And you’ll never be as good as whitey, deal with it.

    23. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 4:49 pm  

      And you’ll never be as good as whitey, deal with it.

      Finally…….

      So that’s the thinking that makes you hate what you are.

      hhmmmm…….

      Have you ever spoke to your family or a counsellor about it?

    24. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 5:12 pm  

      Jai@18

      I’ll tell you straight up, talking about race or more specifically colour (I know the two aren’t neccesarily related) is taboo in the UK compared to say Canada and the UK.

      Hence the use of the word ‘Asian’, when they really mean brown. The fact that white people get weird when anyone mentions or talks about whiteness.

      GGM went as far as anyone has in that respect but even then had to do it discreetly. I posted that Russell Peters clip to highlight how overt people can be out in the states and Canada. You could not do it here! If your trying to say otherwise you’re either lying or being blissfully ignorant. Inter-racial issues are still taboo and frequently I speak to people who tell me that they feel compelled to underplay or hide their cultural identity at work. By this I mean their core identity, not just external things like wearing a turban, headscarf. Frequently they describe it as having to put on an act for whites. What makes whites create the environment that frequently does this, (especially in the corporate world?) That is the big question.

      In America blacks are allowed to be blacks for instance.

      Going back to the original article. Yes, I’m sure we’ll get more brown, black faces in the media in future. But it will only be the ones ‘allowed’ in.

      Until some easing goes on in terms of the stuff I highlighted in post#5, most of those let in will simply be tokens and mostly represent what whitey wants us to be and not what we really are. I put YAB in that bracket.

    25. Deep Singh — on 2nd February, 2010 at 6:34 pm  

      Dalbir:

      “In America blacks are allowed to be blacks for instance”

      Not to steal your thunder, but this is not the whole truth now is it? African American is the term popularly used in the US (and also the correct PC term).

      Referring to someone as ‘black’, something frequently done in the UK and deemed acceptable, is not the case in the US.

      So maybe, the issue you raise is more to do with the term ‘asian’ and its implications for ‘brown’ people in the UK?

    26. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 6:40 pm  

      Deep, your totally missing my point.

    27. Deep Singh — on 2nd February, 2010 at 6:41 pm  

      Dalbir:

      “Going back to the original article. Yes, I’m sure we’ll get more brown, black faces in the media in future. But it will only be the ones ‘allowed’ in”

      Whilst noting the implications in your above statement, this is a two way street - how many ‘brown’ and ‘black’ faces apply for Media roles?

      To take it one step further, (minority) religious communitites often complain about their lack of representaton in Media, again, how many strict practising Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs etc actually apply for these positions or are encouraged within their own communities to consider Media as a serious career choice?

    28. Deep Singh — on 2nd February, 2010 at 6:43 pm  

      Dalbir,

      I understand your point, just highlighting that good rhetoric with not so accurate facts can lessen your argument.

    29. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 6:58 pm  

      @27

      So the barriers posed by the so called ‘hideous white’ BBC (for example) don’t exist? They are a figment of our imagination?

      If closet nazis are prancing around conspiring in the background, how are you supposed to find evidence other than using advanced surveillence equipment? You think they can’t hire with an agenda? They could do a lot better than hiring mostly coconuts to fill quotas that ‘prove’ no racism exists. Why do most of ethnics they hire fit predictable moulds? (read #5). If they want to make it truly diverse, representative or even just plain fucking interesting they could do with hiring outside the usual ‘safe’ range.

      Plus what exactly happens when they are nailed for that shit. The person who complains is normally slung through the mud. It’s a standard tactic of theirs. Like everyone who complains of discrimination is a ‘disgruntled employee’ or couldn’t handle the job or some crap like that.

    30. over yonder — on 2nd February, 2010 at 7:01 pm  

      Dalbir@24,
      http://jamericanmuslimah.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/white-privilege-and-office-culture/

      a very intersting read on acting white in the office from the perspective of a Jamaican Muslim woman living in the USA.

    31. Don — on 2nd February, 2010 at 7:10 pm  

      It’s bad enough that there are not enough ‘ethnics’ in the media: to make matters worse, those who are hired don’t meet Dalbir’s standards. It’s a scandal.

    32. Dalbir — on 2nd February, 2010 at 7:19 pm  

      Fuck that Don. Have less by all means, just make sure the ones there aren’t token sycophants.

      They are meant to be representing us. But they aren’t really. They are representing you.

      But this is exactly like whitey promoting the bumlicking rajahs in colonial times. It is characteristic of wasps to only promote those types and surround themselves with them. They have a historical precedent.

    33. MaidMarian — on 2nd February, 2010 at 7:35 pm  

      ‘Omid Djalili, Shappi Khorsandi and Shazia Mirza.’

      Well… Alan Davies does at least have the comedy talent whereas those three named are about as funny as vomit down a radiator.

      Dalbir - ‘Hence the use of the word ‘Asian’, when they really mean brown.’ Really? I am going for a Chinese and I will ask my good mate Xue for her views on that.

      I do realise that what I am about to say may come as a whacking great shock, but not everyone out there in the world is out there to do you and everyone else which a chip on their bwown/Asian/ethnic shoulder about race down.

      Y AB does indeed need to pipe down lest she become a parody of herself. She is not alone.

    34. sonia — on 2nd February, 2010 at 7:40 pm  

      everyone knows TV is about stereotyping, I really can’t see what the big deal is about this particular programme. Frankly if you are going to wait around to be ‘on TV’ you’re wasting your time! it’s hardly as if the best of any coloured talent is on TV - that is the mistake you people are all making. The broadcast media industry is notorious for not being ‘inclusive’ - independent media is the way forward for any talented individual wanting exposure.

      Judging from most of the content of British TV, one would think we have a nation of game-show playing freaks who want to win the lottery, and this is hardly “representative” either.

      face it, TV is all about dumbing down and playing to the lowest common denominator. if we want to critique that, let’s do it on that basis

    35. MaidMarian — on 2nd February, 2010 at 7:48 pm  

      Dalbir - Xue asks whether you regard people from Asia who do not have brown skin as second class Asians?

    36. Don — on 2nd February, 2010 at 8:09 pm  

      I really doubt anyone is representing me on TV. If anyone is I’d like to think it was Charlie Brooker, Dara Ó Briain and Attenborough. But on the whole TV has pretty much left me on the beach.

      I keep getting the impression that to you the world consists of (a)Whitey, (b)Coconuts, (c)Dalbir. Your decision is final and everyone else is just background noise.

      And is it axiomatic that because I am whitey and you are not-whitey that the same person cannot ‘represent’ us both? (Assuming either of us needs or wants representing.) Because if that is written in stone for you then any discussion is futile.

    37. Shatterface — on 2nd February, 2010 at 8:18 pm  

      ‘Yet watch The Bill and Midsomer Murders – two very different worlds – and almost all the actors are white.’

      Um, The Bill? That would be the show which has featured among it’s *regula* cast Cyril Nri, Diane Parish, Jaye Griffiths, Eamonn Walker, Ami Amern, Seeta Indrani, Lolita Chakrabarti, Raji James, Ofu Uhiara and Thusima Jayasundera?

    38. A.C. — on 2nd February, 2010 at 8:24 pm  

      Drinking Dull-beer with HasBeen Alibhai Brown? zzzzzzzzzz…..

      C4 was just doing what C4 does, but in India. Indian Winter and The Family were both good, a complete antidote to the sort of fantasy bollocks served up by Bollywood (and Eastenders).

      If HasBeen A-B and Dalbir really want to worry about Asians in media, they should ask themselves why BBC Asian Network is going out of business for lack of listeners (Don’t believe me? Check the tanking listener figures for Q4 ’09 out on Thursday.)

      Maybe 20th Century race bores are the ones out of touch, not ‘whitey’?

    39. Shatterface — on 2nd February, 2010 at 8:36 pm  

      ‘C4 was just doing what C4 does, but in India. Indian Winter and The Family were both good, a complete antidote to the sort of fantasy bollocks served up by Bollywood (and Eastenders).’

      The irony is that if Channel 4 was to do a series dedicated to portraying Mumbai as a capitalist Utopia full of healthy rich people you’d get people complaining about how they are hiding the poverty on which this vastly unequal city is based.

    40. A.C. — on 3rd February, 2010 at 8:13 am  

      See also today’s major announcement by the Conservatives on shaking up the BBC. Could this be why the Asian Network is desperately sacking all its underground DJs and talking up its ‘family’ credentials??

      Will lefty commentators be quick to criticise the Asian Network for promoting the nuclear family we wonder?

    41. Dalbir — on 3rd February, 2010 at 9:08 am  

      Maid

      Stop fucking about. You know damn well what people mean when they say ‘asian’ in the UK. A brown man. This isn’t the US where the word ‘asian’ has a different implication and is akin to the Brit use of the word ‘oriental’. This is just a semantic issue. I’m sticking with ‘asian’ how whitey in the UK use it, so nobody is confused.

      Some of you others:

      And is it axiomatic that because I am whitey and you are not-whitey that the same person cannot ‘represent’ us both? (Assuming either of us needs or wants representing.) Because if that is written in stone for you then any discussion is futile.

      I don’t know. The last time I tried that I helped vote the devil wasp incarnate himself into power. Tony Blair! Okay, so the P in WASP was only a phase for him, but still.

      What is wrong with separate representation anyway. People don’t want to admit to it but being a man of colour can mean dealing with issues that doesn’t effect whites. Why wouldn’t I want someone who understands this ‘repping’ me, as opposed to someone who either doesn’t know, or wants to ignore it for whatever reason? People need to stop acting like life for a brown man is no different to a white man in the UK. It is different, pretending otherwise is stupid.

      Drinking Dull-beer with HasBeen Alibhai Brown? zzzzzzzzzz…..

      Wow!! The cutting edge, nay the very apex of wit!

      I like this! Let’s see if I can take the piss out of your name? A.C……A.C….?????? A.C….!!!! I know, you’re “Arsehole Cunt!!” : )

      My how clever we are!

      If HasBeen A-B and Dalbir really want to worry about Asians in media, they should ask themselves why BBC Asian Network is going out of business for lack of listeners (Don’t believe me? Check the tanking listener figures for Q4 ‘09 out on Thursday.

      Like I give that much of a fuck. The truth is that we need independence in our media. Not it being an offshot of the ‘hideously white’ organisation with its own agenda. Like that doesn’t impact on the nature of the ‘Asian’ Network.

    42. A.C. — on 3rd February, 2010 at 9:33 am  

      Dalbir are your clothes as out of fashion as your ideas?

    43. platinum786 — on 3rd February, 2010 at 9:34 am  

      Whilst we’re on the subject, why can we never see a normal day to day Muslim on TV? We either get terrorists or gays (Sayed/Eastenders). To make matters worse they play white actors as Muslims of Pakistani origin. What next blackening up?

      And why are all the nasty people shown as the religious Muslims? Like Masoods brother, shown to be a nasty fellow, wearing a prayer hat. Has nobody ever come across a muslim who prays 5 times a day, doesn’t drink, doesn’t have a son in the closet, who’s wife wears salwar kameez, who has asian people around as guests and at their sons wedding, who tells the occasional dirty joke?

    44. Dalbir — on 3rd February, 2010 at 10:13 am  

      @42

      Are your clothes going to go out of fashion as quickly as they may have come in?

    45. Kismet Hardy — on 3rd February, 2010 at 11:23 am  

      “The same old, same old white comedians appear on Never Mind the Buzzcocks, Argumental, QI, Mock the Week. Omid Djalili, Shappi Khorsandi and Shazia Mirza do gain entry and maybe a couple of others”

      So that’s five Asian comedians that make it on those shows.

      Outrageous.

      In any case, until Asian comedians stop banging on about Asian the way certain black comedians bang on about black, you can’t expect the mainstream to give a shit. It’s not rocket salad

    46. Kismet Hardy — on 3rd February, 2010 at 11:25 am  

      “Whilst we’re on the subject, why can we never see a normal day to day Muslim on TV”

      Silly Platinum. Eastenders is set in east london. No muslims there.

      And why does masood go to a pub to drink orange juice?

    47. over yonder — on 3rd February, 2010 at 12:46 pm  

      Egypt and to a lesser extent Syria prodice soap operas. The central characters portrayed are Muslim as are the actors (or at least their behaviour, language is strongly influenced by Islamic culture).I don’t really see what difficulty having a muslim character would present to the programme makers.
      I haven’t watched Eastenders in years. I used to be very fond of Dr. Legg, Ali and Mehmet. Even tried Dr Legg’s gefilte fish recipe once.

    48. Dalbir — on 3rd February, 2010 at 1:45 pm  

      What I want to know is:

      Do ‘asian’ people find begging the establishment to be let in a tad bit…..err…..degrading?

    49. Kulvinder — on 3rd February, 2010 at 7:58 pm  

      Have you ever spoke to your family or a counsellor about it?

      ‘make an argument’

    50. Rumbold — on 3rd February, 2010 at 8:05 pm  

      Platinum:

      Has nobody ever come across a muslim who prays 5 times a day, doesn’t drink, doesn’t have a son in the closet, who’s wife wears salwar kameez, who has asian people around as guests and at their sons wedding, who tells the occasional dirty joke?

      I do. But he doesn’t have a son (yet).

    51. Don — on 3rd February, 2010 at 8:24 pm  

      I know a few women who wear the salwar kameez, but I don’t know about the other points. I’d probably feel awkward asking. At what point in the conversation is it socially appropriate to say, ‘So, your lad, Yussuf. I’m guessing closet gay, right?’ ?

    52. Rumbold — on 3rd February, 2010 at 8:30 pm  

      Heh Don.

    53. douglas clark — on 3rd February, 2010 at 8:34 pm  

      Dalbir.

      You say, this shit:

      Stop fucking about. You know damn well what people mean when they say ‘asian’ in the UK. A brown man. This isn’t the US where the word ‘asian’ has a different implication and is akin to the Brit use of the word ‘oriental’. This is just a semantic issue. I’m sticking with ‘asian’ how whitey in the UK use it, so nobody is confused.

      How whitey in the UK uses it?

      I beg to differ.

      I am getting a bit sick, a bit angry about who you think I am.

      Now, fuck off and reconsider.

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