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	<title>Comments on: The right to end lives?</title>
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	<description>Current affairs for a progressive generation</description>
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		<title>By: Indigo Jo Blogs &#8212; The differences between the Inglis and Gilderdale murder cases</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-192621</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo Jo Blogs &#8212; The differences between the Inglis and Gilderdale murder cases</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-192621</guid>
		<description>[...] Earlier this week, a mother named Kay Gilderdale was acquitted of the attempted murder of her daughter Lynn in December 2008. Lynn Gilderdale had been bed-bound since the age of 14 with severe ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis), which is a form of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). She was paraplegic (earlier on in her illness, she had been functionally quadriplegic, but she remained without feeling or movement in her legs) and unable to speak or swallow. The Daily Mail printed an interview with her mother in today&#8217;s edition. (More: Sarah Ismail @ Pickled Politics.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Earlier this week, a mother named Kay Gilderdale was acquitted of the attempted murder of her daughter Lynn in December 2008. Lynn Gilderdale had been bed-bound since the age of 14 with severe ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis), which is a form of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). She was paraplegic (earlier on in her illness, she had been functionally quadriplegic, but she remained without feeling or movement in her legs) and unable to speak or swallow. The Daily Mail printed an interview with her mother in today&#8217;s edition. (More: Sarah Ismail @ Pickled Politics.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MiriamBinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-192023</link>
		<dc:creator>MiriamBinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-192023</guid>
		<description>Like I said Martin, nothing like spouting is there ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said Martin, nothing like spouting is there <img src='http://www.pickledpolitics.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Martin Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-192017</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-192017</guid>
		<description>Yes, Miriam.

A person due to peg out from, say, terminal cancer could choose become a suicide bomber infiltrating a Parliamentary Labour Party cocktail party.

It would be inappropriate to say whether this would be considered a good thing or a bad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Miriam.</p>
<p>A person due to peg out from, say, terminal cancer could choose become a suicide bomber infiltrating a Parliamentary Labour Party cocktail party.</p>
<p>It would be inappropriate to say whether this would be considered a good thing or a bad thing.</p>
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		<title>By: MiriamBinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-192014</link>
		<dc:creator>MiriamBinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-192014</guid>
		<description>@ Martin Sullivan # 8 Fascinating Martin ... now tell me aside from providing you with an opportunity to engage in your favourite subject, what bearing it has on the subject of euthanasia? Do you honestly think there is a correlation between electing to end your life for personal reasons to ending your life as a form of political protest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Martin Sullivan # 8 Fascinating Martin &#8230; now tell me aside from providing you with an opportunity to engage in your favourite subject, what bearing it has on the subject of euthanasia? Do you honestly think there is a correlation between electing to end your life for personal reasons to ending your life as a form of political protest?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-192013</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-192013</guid>
		<description>Talking of the ending of lives, I wonder whether anyone here remebers Wafa Al-Biss:

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000359.htm

She was burned in a domestic accident in Gaza and was receiving regular hospital treatment in Israel prior to being persuaded to wear some explosives for her next visit so that she could blow herself to bits and kill and maim a few of the Zionist oppressors working as doctors, nurses and orderlies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talking of the ending of lives, I wonder whether anyone here remebers Wafa Al-Biss:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000359.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000359.htm</a></p>
<p>She was burned in a domestic accident in Gaza and was receiving regular hospital treatment in Israel prior to being persuaded to wear some explosives for her next visit so that she could blow herself to bits and kill and maim a few of the Zionist oppressors working as doctors, nurses and orderlies.</p>
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		<title>By: sonia</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-191989</link>
		<dc:creator>sonia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-191989</guid>
		<description>well said Sarah.  
I actually I think there needs to be a serious consideration of an individual&#039;s right to die - when they can express this desire, why not?   As long as there is some way of checking it has been thought about carefully and we can&#039;t help them some other way to relieve their mental/physical pain/distress.

Why should people be forced to remain alive and use up the Earth&#039;s resources if they don&#039;t want to. So often its painted as a &quot;selfish&quot; desire - to want out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well said Sarah.<br />
I actually I think there needs to be a serious consideration of an individual&#8217;s right to die &#8211; when they can express this desire, why not?   As long as there is some way of checking it has been thought about carefully and we can&#8217;t help them some other way to relieve their mental/physical pain/distress.</p>
<p>Why should people be forced to remain alive and use up the Earth&#8217;s resources if they don&#8217;t want to. So often its painted as a &#8220;selfish&#8221; desire &#8211; to want out.</p>
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		<title>By: MiriamBinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-191925</link>
		<dc:creator>MiriamBinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-191925</guid>
		<description>Thank you ... I may well have got the specific date wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you &#8230; I may well have got the specific date wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: lfc4life</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-191924</link>
		<dc:creator>lfc4life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-191924</guid>
		<description>Tony Blair knows a thing or 2 about ending lives he ended around 500,000 in iraq.

Perfect candidate as the executioner in chief!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony Blair knows a thing or 2 about ending lives he ended around 500,000 in iraq.</p>
<p>Perfect candidate as the executioner in chief!</p>
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		<title>By: sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-191922</link>
		<dc:creator>sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-191922</guid>
		<description>Ok. Just giving you the date as you put 2003 above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok. Just giving you the date as you put 2003 above.</p>
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		<title>By: MiriamBinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-191920</link>
		<dc:creator>MiriamBinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-191920</guid>
		<description>Sarah, I am fully aware of why she was prohibited from seeing her son. It has no bearing however on either the lead article or my response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah, I am fully aware of why she was prohibited from seeing her son. It has no bearing however on either the lead article or my response.</p>
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		<title>By: sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-191917</link>
		<dc:creator>sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-191917</guid>
		<description>Miriam- Frances Inglis was not allowed to see her son because she had injected him with heroin once before, in 2007, but failed to end his life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miriam- Frances Inglis was not allowed to see her son because she had injected him with heroin once before, in 2007, but failed to end his life.</p>
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		<title>By: MiriamBinder</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-191912</link>
		<dc:creator>MiriamBinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-191912</guid>
		<description>Lynn could make her wishes known whereas Thomas could not. Therefore effectively we have done Thomas&#039; thinking for him; as total strangers without the slightest insight into how this young man has grown and articulated into a thinking cognisant person from infancy on.

The other difference of course is that whereas Kay Gilderdale was actively looking after her daughter at home, Frances Inglis had been prohibited from seeing her son due to a previous court appearance (in 2003 if memory serves me right) and he was cared for in a hospice/carehome ... 

Lynn has been severely disabled, with a condition that effectively had further deteriorated her fundamental physical condition to the extent where even if the original disability was now miraculously cured, she would not have been able to resume a fit and active life.

Thomas on the other hand had become disabled as a result of a self-initiated jump from an ambulance which had left him paralysed and severely brain damaged unable to communicate and being kept alive only by modern medicinal practise.

To equate these two cases is disingenuous to say the least. Further it only serves to further murky the waters as it could be claimed that only provided the subject can still communicate in a manner that satisfies us, the general public, that they have made their wishes clear will these wishes be taken into consideration; otherwise we will do their thinking for them.

If there is one thing that the Kay Gilderdale case has managed to highlight is that Keir Starmer QC,the Director of Prosecutions, is waging a very personal campaign on this issue. Kay Gilderdale had already, at a previous court appearance in July pleaded guilty to a charge of assisting suicide. Yet despite this he still attempted to gain a conviction of attempted murder.

When we have highly senior members of the judiciary playing political football with these highly vulnerable individuals who are already dealing with a level of pain and grief to an extent few of us can enter into I am further convinced that we need no change in the law itself.

What we need is a case on case decision. However I do not believe that a public trial is necessarily the way forward in that; nor do I think that it is necessarily the Prosecution Service that should determine the issue on the case on case basis. This is never a matter of in the public interest as we are not talking about people who are likely to go out and repeat offending; therefore the issue of public safety does not come up.

I do not think that the law has any place in these highly individual cases. Maybe the way forward would be for a jury of peers, in the purest sense ... that is individuals who are of similar age, interests, gender etcetera who could reach a consensus on whether or not euthanasia is indeed reasonable in any given case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynn could make her wishes known whereas Thomas could not. Therefore effectively we have done Thomas&#8217; thinking for him; as total strangers without the slightest insight into how this young man has grown and articulated into a thinking cognisant person from infancy on.</p>
<p>The other difference of course is that whereas Kay Gilderdale was actively looking after her daughter at home, Frances Inglis had been prohibited from seeing her son due to a previous court appearance (in 2003 if memory serves me right) and he was cared for in a hospice/carehome &#8230; </p>
<p>Lynn has been severely disabled, with a condition that effectively had further deteriorated her fundamental physical condition to the extent where even if the original disability was now miraculously cured, she would not have been able to resume a fit and active life.</p>
<p>Thomas on the other hand had become disabled as a result of a self-initiated jump from an ambulance which had left him paralysed and severely brain damaged unable to communicate and being kept alive only by modern medicinal practise.</p>
<p>To equate these two cases is disingenuous to say the least. Further it only serves to further murky the waters as it could be claimed that only provided the subject can still communicate in a manner that satisfies us, the general public, that they have made their wishes clear will these wishes be taken into consideration; otherwise we will do their thinking for them.</p>
<p>If there is one thing that the Kay Gilderdale case has managed to highlight is that Keir Starmer QC,the Director of Prosecutions, is waging a very personal campaign on this issue. Kay Gilderdale had already, at a previous court appearance in July pleaded guilty to a charge of assisting suicide. Yet despite this he still attempted to gain a conviction of attempted murder.</p>
<p>When we have highly senior members of the judiciary playing political football with these highly vulnerable individuals who are already dealing with a level of pain and grief to an extent few of us can enter into I am further convinced that we need no change in the law itself.</p>
<p>What we need is a case on case decision. However I do not believe that a public trial is necessarily the way forward in that; nor do I think that it is necessarily the Prosecution Service that should determine the issue on the case on case basis. This is never a matter of in the public interest as we are not talking about people who are likely to go out and repeat offending; therefore the issue of public safety does not come up.</p>
<p>I do not think that the law has any place in these highly individual cases. Maybe the way forward would be for a jury of peers, in the purest sense &#8230; that is individuals who are of similar age, interests, gender etcetera who could reach a consensus on whether or not euthanasia is indeed reasonable in any given case.</p>
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		<title>By: platinum786</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-191904</link>
		<dc:creator>platinum786</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-191904</guid>
		<description>This pay not be applicable with the long term ill, but I was joking with a friend at work the other day. I said &quot;I wonder whether people commiting scuicide have second thoughts at the last second&quot;, ie someone who has just jumped off a building. 

Okay people may well want to die, but how many of those who have killed themselves, just before dying thought, &quot;STOP&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This pay not be applicable with the long term ill, but I was joking with a friend at work the other day. I said &#8220;I wonder whether people commiting scuicide have second thoughts at the last second&#8221;, ie someone who has just jumped off a building. </p>
<p>Okay people may well want to die, but how many of those who have killed themselves, just before dying thought, &#8220;STOP&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Agnieszka Tokarska</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-204018</link>
		<dc:creator>Agnieszka Tokarska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-204018</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @pickledpolitics: Blog post:: The right to end lives? http://bit.ly/bpPvbT&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @pickledpolitics: Blog post:: The right to end lives? <a href="http://bit.ly/bpPvbT" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/bpPvbT</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: pickles</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-204019</link>
		<dc:creator>pickles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-204019</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Blog post:: The right to end lives? http://bit.ly/bpPvbT&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Blog post:: The right to end lives? <a href="http://bit.ly/bpPvbT" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/bpPvbT</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: sarah ismail</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296#comment-204017</link>
		<dc:creator>sarah ismail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/?p=7296#comment-204017</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Me @pickledpolitics: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Me @pickledpolitics: <a href="http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296" rel="nofollow">http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7296</a></span></span></span></p>
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