Another video of violence from EDL Stoke demo


by Sunny
25th January, 2010 at 9:19 am    

This video contains strong, racist language btw.

Lancaster Unity reports:

EDL say they support British laws and that they’re not racist or connected to the BNP, but after the EDL demo in Stoke on 23 Jan 2010, EDL supporters “dispersed” into side-streets to break windows and attack cars owned by Stoke residents. EDL co-founder and convicted knife criminal Jeff Marsh filmed the police ID-ing him by name (0:02 “Jeff Marsh, turn round and go back”) and then filmed EDL supporters chanting “BNP, BNP, BNP” (0:26).

Police then chased the EDL into a nearby park where EDL accused police officers of being “Paki loving bastards” (0:35), “Fucking cunts”, and one officer of being a “wanker” and “Fucking paki lover”

Funny that – they claim only to be against Muslim extremists, like a lot of other internet warriors. Not the same as what comes out of their mouths though.


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Filed in: EDL,Race politics,The BNP






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  1. pickles

    Blog post:: Another video of violence from EDL Stoke demo http://bit.ly/5valP3


  2. Jennifer Jones

    EDL chanting 'BNP BNP' in Stoke last Saturday: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7286


  3. Leicester UAF

    RT @Jaackerson: EDL chanting 'BNP BNP' in Stoke last Saturday: http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/7286


  4. Neil M

    RT @uponnothing: Another video of violence from EDL Stoke demo http://viigo.im/2cac


  5. Kevin Arscott

    Another video of violence from EDL Stoke demo http://viigo.im/2cac




  1. sajuk — on 25th January, 2010 at 9:52 am  

    There are reports that the BNP/EDL racists were smashing up cars and shop windows in a predominantly asian area of Stoke-on-Trent. Looks like there are going to be plenty more of these kristallnachts. The best thing the Muslim youth can do is not be provoked stay away and watch form a distance while they self-emplode and the signs are already there in the EDL with much infighting and bad PR. I predict that after the election they will vanish just like the huge 1970′s street armies of the NF imploded after the Tory victory in 1979.

  2. marvin — on 25th January, 2010 at 12:24 pm  

    Oh they sound lovely. I get confused. Is this the guy that the other co-founder wants nothing to do with cos he’s BNP? Those people do not claim to be EDL on the video so did they gatecrash? It IS the sort of behaviour we can expect from BNP or NF… Hmm. Looks like EDL is out of control regardless. Are they condemning these horrible thugs I wonder? I suspect it’s make or break time for EDL.

    If people are either BNP/NF are gatecrashing, or violence is done in the name of EDL, and EDL cannot stop them then not only do they have no credibility, but the police will have to look at preventing marches or even banning the group.

  3. Kismet Hardy — on 25th January, 2010 at 12:31 pm  

    Aw, I missed racists, just because the graffiti always pleased my pedant mind (read: went to school). How I chuckled superiorly at illiterate proclamations of PECKYS OUT, WITE IS RITE and swastikas scrawled the wrong way round.

    Is EDL their way of spelling ADDLED?

  4. lemontea — on 25th January, 2010 at 1:25 pm  

    well done, racist abuse and violence must make the EDL people proud.

  5. MiriamBinder — on 25th January, 2010 at 1:58 pm  

    I did hear somewhere that EDL is just another front for the BNP. Considering that their own co-founder films EDL supporters chanting “BNP, BNP, BNP” is it really any wonder?

    I don’t mind the phonetic spelling so much as the utter arrogant ignorance that they display.

  6. Homam — on 25th January, 2010 at 2:20 pm  

    English Defence League are nothing but a bunch of Nazis

  7. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 25th January, 2010 at 2:27 pm  

    I did hear somewhere that EDL is just another front for the BNP. Considering that their own co-founder films EDL supporters chanting “BNP, BNP, BNP” is it really any wonder?

    According to ‘hope not hate’ the likes of chris renton and davy cooling are major figures in the edl and are also bnp members. I wouldn’t say the edl are an active ‘front’ for the bnp in the same way c18 were (if memory serves, cylcops blames the edl on zionists, not sure how that works) but they’re certainly a very convenient way to offload the sociopathic thug element.

    nb- I think the author of the following is dyslexic rather than anything else, definitely worth a read – http://pitsnpots.co.uk/news/2010/01/privet-hire-cars-suspended-service-city-centre-stores-takings-down-and-council-clean-be

  8. damon — on 25th January, 2010 at 2:59 pm  

    The thing is though, what should be done to counter them? The more ”fun” their days out are, the more of their mates will go next time. The UAF seem to be a bit of a waste of time as they don’t scare the EDL at all, and just causes the tension to be hightened (and therefore, more fun).

    They have a thread on the EDL on Rod Liddle’s Millwall site, and several of them are supporters of it (and a couple are not. One strongly so).

    One guy said ”It’s not ordinary muslims we’re against, just those that are trying to **** us over”.

    Maybe somebody should volunteer and go over to their site and talk to them? (Or ask Rod to have a word).

  9. MiriamBinder — on 25th January, 2010 at 3:25 pm  

    Nothing should be done to counter them. They should not be banned and they should not be countered. Let them have their protests and if they are going to run riot then we do have an authority that is supposed to maintain the peace on public highways and by-ways … the police!

    What could be done is hold organisers of protests responsible for any damage or extra expense incurred because of their protest. Maybe organise it so that when they apply for a protest licence, they under-sign an insurance premium or deposit a bond.

    That way, peaceful protesters can still protest but if your aim is to cause mayhem, you will think twice. Make them responsible for stewarding their own protests so if they do not want to personally underwrite any forthcoming claims, their stewards can identify the trouble makers and they can then be held accountable. Don’t accept, we don’t know who that particular individual is. You organised the protest, it is your responsibility!

  10. Old Pickler — on 25th January, 2010 at 7:41 pm  

    How is it that when Muslims do far worse than this they are a “tiny minority of extremists”? The line is that we can’t hold Muslims or Islam responsible for the actions of this tiny minority of extremists who are not representative of true Islam etc etc.

  11. Kev Tomes — on 25th January, 2010 at 7:50 pm  

    At least they’re kind enough to upload incriminating evidence about themselves, saves some time…

  12. douglas clark — on 25th January, 2010 at 7:52 pm  

    Does anyone agree with me that this is being blown out of all proportion?

    I do not think a few thugs represent ‘white’ opinion, whatever that may be, anymore than I thought I4UK represented muslim opinion.

    Whilst what was said on the video was hateful and nasty it can be matched by what I4UK have said in the past.

    Could we all try to get over the idea that the extremists speak for us?

  13. douglas clark — on 25th January, 2010 at 8:11 pm  

    OK, buggered that up. Here is what sajuk had to say:

    Looks like there are going to be plenty more of these kristallnachts.

    Does sajuk know what kristallnacht was?

    This is a reasonable history of kristallnacht:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

    Compare and contrast that to the hysterical ramblings that we get now.

    Jews murdered, circa 20,000 arrested, 200 odd synagogues destroyed.

    But this is just the degeneration of language. If a dog has a shit in the street we will be asked, shortly, to compare in to kristallnacht.

    Get a grip.

    And the hysteria knows no bounds, kristallnacht is a favourite term of Harrys Place when it refers to the breakage of a plate glass window.

  14. douglas clark — on 25th January, 2010 at 8:34 pm  

    Old Pickler,

    How is it that when Muslims do far worse than this they are a “tiny minority of extremists”? The line is that we can’t hold Muslims or Islam responsible for the actions of this tiny minority of extremists who are not representative of true Islam etc etc.

    You are being a bit one sided there, are you not?

    What, exactly, have muslims done? I accept that a tiny minority of extremists have done things in the name of Islam, but, I repeat, what have muslims done?

    They are clearly and obviously not extremists.

    I think there is a line. I think muslims are in general agreement that stepping over it is unacceptable.

    Do you, Old Pickler, have any evidence whatsoever to the contrary?

    As I assume you are wheatish or a lighter shade of pale, perhaps you can share with us what exactly you are doing to reduce tensions?

    Sweet Fanny Adams, I suspect…..

  15. persephone — on 25th January, 2010 at 9:40 pm  

    So English Defence League is not affiliated to the Human League then?

    And their video is certainly not what I expected of new romantics.

    Cue chant: “Don’t you want me baby, don’t you want me ooooohoooo”

  16. A.C. — on 26th January, 2010 at 12:40 am  

    As an unashamed ‘p@ki lover’ and son of a ‘n/gger lover’ (as my dad was called in his day), I think these EDL bods should take heart that many of their Muslim ‘opponents’ would also use ‘gora lover’ or ‘kaffir lover’ as a pejorative term.

    I think they should hold high level talks like Muhammed Ali and the KKK did to discuss how to prevent miscegenation and what to do about the Honour Babies.

    Get em all in the same room at the same time…..

  17. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 1:01 am  

    So what a dozen EDL spew racist bile and claim to be BNP, there were 1500 on that protest, they’re a broad church like many political movements. They wouldn’t exist but for the conspiracy of silence by the establishment chatterers. The very best that can be said for Muslims is that they have divided loyalties the vast majority pledge allegiance to the ummah before the British, most would fail the Tebbit test and an uncomfortably large number supported the 7th July mass murders – this can all be verified in surveys. Muslim triumphalism has gone unchecked for far to long, hardly surprising when it is appeased at every turn by establishment toadies put in all the important places by, Blair. It all started in opposition: they bigged up the MCB to secure the mill towns, Straw scrapped the primary purpose rule and saw the sub continent flood in, they abandoned the natives to pursue diversity, traditional history at school was scrapped in favour of apologizing for the slave trade, a Marxist was appointed to Lambeth palace who then urged Sharia law a few top judges agreed etc etc.

    Is it any wonder that the natives are in revolt, some effective organisation and intelligent leadership and there really will be something to worry about.

  18. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 1:11 am  

    @ Tom Johnson # 17 – The Natives are in revolt? Oh dear me, you honestly think that this shower represent the natives? I didn’t realise you held the average Englishman and woman in that much contempt ;)

  19. Dalbir — on 26th January, 2010 at 1:22 am  

    traditional history at school was scrapped in favour of apologizing for the slave trade

    That was no ‘traditional history’ but remnant propaganda from colonial times. What, do you like being brainwashed by your ruling class? Anyway, what do you expect? A celebration of slavery!

    The empires gone, get over it. Be happy you got away with it as long as you did. This country developed itself off the back of the exploitation. The “good ole’ days” aren’t about to come back – deal with it.

    Is it any wonder that the natives are in revolt

    The natives are revolting.

  20. Kismet Hardy — on 26th January, 2010 at 1:57 am  

    Any rappers out there having a block, feel free to use this couplet I conjured up on my way to petrol station to purchase my late night quiche.

    “Kids used to deal in E now they joining EDL
    They used to pray for heaven now they kicking off in hell”

    No. I don’t have a girlfriend.

  21. douglas clark — on 26th January, 2010 at 5:06 am  

    Tom Johnson @ 17,

    There are a few million muslims in the UK. For your scenario to hold water we’d be in near permanent revolution. The fact of the matter is that most – read 99.99% of muslims – are not interested in violence. Never were, never will be.

    The very best that can be said for Muslims is that they have divided loyalties the vast majority pledge allegiance to the ummah before the British, most would fail the Tebbit test…

    I can assure you that I am British, white and completely happy to say that I’d fail the Tebbit test. I’d go as far as to say Tebbit was a tit.

    I’d also go as far as to say I am quite happy to be an EU citizen. Y’know, not British exclusively or exactly.

    I do not really understand your ideas on ‘divided loyalties’. Perhaps you stand to attention before a portrait of the Queen of an evening. Perhaps you think that that makes your loyalty regal or some such bullshit? I have never felt the need to ally myself in quite that way. It says more about your own inadequacies than it does about much else. Find a cult and join it.

    On that basis, I too have divided loyalties, some of which includes voting for Asians that support my political ideas. Shock, fucking horror! These ‘divided loyalties’ are probably a good thing and you should, I humbly suggest, try it sometime.

    So, contrary to what you have to say, the vast majority of people in this country, whilst rejecting Islamicist bullshit also reject your narrow minded and, frankly prejudiced, world view. And that rejection includes every muslim I have ever met. (Not a huge sample, but still…)

    You underestimate the sense of the British, for your agenda is not a common one.

    Is it any wonder that the natives are in revolt,

    You are being a hysterical creep.

  22. douglas clark — on 26th January, 2010 at 5:20 am  

    Kismet Hardy @ 20,

    It’s a shame I’m a man, ’cause otherwise I’d be your g/f.

    What is wrong with women these days?

  23. douglas clark — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:02 am  

    Came across this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOBcFt5tevY&feature=player_embedded

    As half of you seem to think I should understand allah akbar, and the other half that think I should understand Khalistan Zinabad, well, you could try listening to this. Which is mutually incomprehensible.

    Robert Burns.

    A translation, sort of:

    Is there for honesty poverty
    That hings his head, an’ a’ that;
    The coward slave – we pass him by,
    We dare be poor for a’ that!
    For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
    Our toils obscure an’ a’ that,
    The rank is but the guinea’s stamp,
    The man’s the gowd for a’ that.

    What though on hamely fare we dine,
    Wear hoddin grey, an’ a’ that?
    Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine,
    A man’s a man for a’ that.
    For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
    Their tinsel show, an’ a’ that,
    The honest man, tho’ e’er sae poor,
    Is king o’ men for a’ that.

    Ye see yon birkie ca’d a lord,
    Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that;
    Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
    He’s but a coof for a’ that.
    For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
    His ribband, star, an’ a’ that,
    The man o’ independent mind
    He looks an’ laughs at a’ that.

    A prince can mak a belted knight,
    A marquise, duke, an’ a’ that;
    But an honest man’s aboon his might,
    Gude faith, he maunna fa’ that!
    For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
    Their dignities an’ a’ that,
    The pith o’ sense, an’ pride o’ worth,
    Are higher rank than a’ that.

    Then let us pray that come it may,
    (As come it will for a’ that,)
    That Sense and Worth, o’er a’ the earth,
    Shall bear the gree, an’ a’ that.
    For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
    It’s comin yet for a’ that
    That man to man, the world o’er,
    Shall brithers be for a’ that.

    Notes

    This has been set to music, and you may have heard it sung. It is written in Ayrshire dialect, and English, but the sentiments expressed are universal.
    In Verse One, Burns is saying that wealth, or lack of it,and social class should not be the measure of a man’s true worth. ” The rank is but the guinea’s stamp” means that a person cannot be given a price. The man’s character is the true gold.

    Verse Two continues the theme. We may wear ordinary clothes, and eat simple food, but appearance is just a show, like tinsel. Honesty is worth more than fancy clothes.

    Now Verse Three might have got Burns into some trouble in Edinburgh. The birkie (cool young guy) who struts around, and has the title of Lord, is only a coof (an idiot). The man who learns to think for himself is worth much more than that.

    Verse Four continues this theme. Princes can hand out titles at will, but honesty and pure goodness are worth much more. Self respect doesn’t come from inherited wealth or titles.

    Verse Five is a prayer that Sense and Worth shall eventually agree with all mankind. Burns imagines a future world in which all people will live as brothers, in mutual trust and respect. “It’s coming yet, for a’ that”. Well, it hasn’t come yet Rabbie, but we live in hope.

    My highlighting.

    It’s what you are brought up with that you tend to believe….

    I think it is around and about Burns night, so read it and weep.

  24. damon — on 26th January, 2010 at 7:13 am  

    MiriamBinder @ 9, I kind of agree that: ”They should not be banned and they should not be countered.”. And Douglas Clark, I agree that it is being blown slightly out of proportion.

    But these (below) are not pleasant scenes to watch.

    ”Lads on the streets of Stoke-on-Trent.”
    http://www.youtube.com/user/AllahsApostle#p/a/u/2/HfMSeizgHZk

    This is EDL people on their way to or from the protest, walking down residential streets that may well have Asian and Muslim businesses. No police. Doing what they like. It’s this sort of behavior that Muslim lads in places like Luton will not allow to happen down where they live. (And quite right too).

    btw. this guy who has this youtube account is a serious islamophobe. Maybe him and his kind should be opposed from walking through the streets shouting ”EDL – No more mosques” etc.

  25. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 10:09 am  

    @ Damon # 24 – I agree 100% that it is not a nice scene, to put it very mildly and not having too fine a point on it. However that certainly comes under the heading of behaviour likely to lead to a breach of the peace … and we do have a means of dealing with that legally and with due authority.

    I realise that the temptation to ‘put the wind up’ and ‘knock seven bells out’ is hard to resist at times. However such is the nature of society. Start reacting to mob rule with mob rule and before you know it the whole of society is down the proverbial not only without a paddle but most likely without a canoe to boot!

  26. Martin Sullivan — on 26th January, 2010 at 10:16 am  

    Firm measures must be taken to combat the EDL, like recruiting Somalis into the police:

    http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2010/01/sweden_rattled.php

    Somalis are just the right kind of immigrant!

  27. Jai — on 26th January, 2010 at 11:04 am  

    traditional history at school was scrapped in favour of apologizing for the slave trade,

    As Dalbir said, the slave trade wasn’t exactly something to celebrate (or be proud of, for that matter).

    The very best that can be said for Muslims is that they have divided loyalties the vast majority pledge allegiance to the ummah before the British, most would fail the Tebbit test and an uncomfortably large number supported the 7th July mass murders – this can all be verified in surveys.

    These surveys ?

    1) http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/pdfs/2006_february_sunday_telegraph_muslims_poll.pdf

    - 75% of British Muslims do not sympathise with the “feelings and motives” of the terrorists involved in 7/7.
    - 99% of British Muslims feel the terrorists were wrong in carrying out the attacks.
    - Over 90% of British Muslims declare a loyalty to Britain.

    2) http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/99707/The-most-loyal-people-in-britain

    - 77% of British Muslims identify with the UK, compared with only 50% of the British general public as a whole.
    - British Muslims have more confidence in British institutions, outscoring the general public as a whole in belief in the courts, honesty of elections, financial institutions and the media.
    - British Muslims were far less likely than the general public as a whole to find other religious practices a threat to them – specifically, a little over 25% of the general public agreed that different religious practices than their own threaten their way of life, compared with just 3% of British Muslims.

  28. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 11:34 am  

    @ Martin # 26 – Careful there sunny Jim … you’ll be wearing your heart on your sleeve next and then where will we be ;)

  29. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 12:12 pm  

    @ Jai # 27 – Be very careful what you read into surveys … extrapolating the view of all based on a small sample is fraught with pitfalls.

    Even insurance companies miscalculate at times and they deal with the laws of probability which are far more conducive to projection then something as ephemeral as public likes or dislikes – ask any has-been popstar ;)

  30. marvin — on 26th January, 2010 at 12:21 pm  

    It’s funny when you think surveys of Muslim opinion have been denied and dismissed on the left and particularly on this blog for each of the 10 or so surveys we’ve had over recent years, yet once a favourable opinion is found, it is supported and used as incontrovertible evidence for the truth!

    What a joke. Thank god much of the worrying side of Muslim opinion does appear to have de-radicalised somewhat over the past year or two. The left certainly weren’t going to knowledge it in any way shape of form, lest it gave fodder to the raaaacists.

    The most recent poll I can find is this

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

    Where 0 out of 500 British Muslims found homosexuality morally acceptable, whereas in France it was 35%.

    There was near silence on the liberal commentariat.

    If it were a survey of Briton’s identifying as Christians, with the same result, do we really need to think too hard about the response in the Guardian and Independent Editorials and Comment pages (for weeks!)?

    Will the left ever reach a place where they judge all not by skin colour or culture but by universal values? Why does moral relativism seem visceral in the left?

    Now, I may as well bang my head against a brick wall then wait for an acknowledgement of differing standards.

  31. tanvir — on 26th January, 2010 at 12:37 pm  

    Yawn Yawn. Who really cares. Let them do what they want.
    Some of us need to see this, some of us already knew about this.

    The fact is, BNP/EDL sentiments are massively more popular amongst Brits, than the few Islam4UK twats (probably not even in their 100s)are within the Muslim population in England. Their raw prejudice is plain to see, what they say is just a bit of window dressing to help the mainstream media report on them as civilised people. Yet its Anjem Choudhury who makes primetime TV and front page news when he is nowhere near representative of even 0.1% of Muslims, whilst you have to look on blogs to find this stuff on what the EDL really are about and freely preech on the streets of Britain.

  32. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 1:26 pm  

    Jai@27

    Bet you struggled to find those surveys eh?

    Despite you and various left wing pressure groups (1990 trust) attempting to pour cold water on the truth the overwhelming weight of survey evidence shows that ‘an uncomfortably large number supported the 7th July mass murders’ it’s not hard to find in fact extrapolation suggests that anywhere between 100,000 – 150,000 British muslims supported the actions of these martyrs. It’s certainly the case that the evidence available satisfied Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller who I would suggest is in a far better position to evaluate the threat from British Muslims than you.

  33. persephone — on 26th January, 2010 at 1:37 pm  

    “Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller who I would suggest is in a far better position to evaluate the threat from British Muslims”

    Irony right?

    http://nether-world.blogspot.com/2007/01/why-dame-eliza-manningham-buller-quit.html

  34. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 1:39 pm  

    Douglas Clark@21

    Marxist claptrap from start to finish. And I don’t have an agenda.

  35. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 1:49 pm  

    persephone@33

    I fell head first into that elephant trap, that’ll teach me to name drop.

  36. Jai — on 26th January, 2010 at 2:22 pm  

    Bet you struggled to find those surveys eh?

    Wrong again. They’re from the Telegraph and the Express and have been widely publicised.

    it’s not hard to find in fact extrapolation suggests that anywhere between 100,000 – 150,000 British muslims supported the actions of these martyrs.

    And nearly 1 million people voted for a political party whose leaders have a history of Holocaust denial, are open apologists for the KKK, have actively protested against the actions of RAF veterans involved in fighting the Nazis in WW2, have been caught on video admitting to their supporters that they’re deliberately scapegoating Muslims and hiding their antisemitism as a vehicle to achieve political power, are dedicated to stripping non-white Brits of all legal safeguards currently protecting them from racially-motivated persecution & harrassment and reducing this country’s non-white population from 10% to 1% despite having allegedly abandoned their “voluntary repatriation” policies, and have confirmed in writing that they plan to implement what is essentially full-scale racial apartheid in Britain if they ever achieved power.

    Perhaps it would be worthwhile also “extrapolating” how many more white people in Britain support the fundamentally racist aspirations of this party even if they wouldn’t necessarily vote for them or actively assist them.

    Given the fact that there are 50 million white people in Britain, taking the dubious logical course of “extrapolation” would imply that there are somewhat more than 100,000-150,000 non-voting supporters of the potential actions & ambitions of this organisation. For people who claim to be patriotic and acting in the best interests of this country, that should be a significant cause for concern.

    If one is going to follow that particular line of paranoid logic involving “secret sympathisers”, of course. The knife can cut both ways.

    who I would suggest is in a far better position to evaluate the threat from British Muslims than you.

    And the British intelligence services are in a far better position to evaluate the threat from British Muslims than anyone commenting on this website. As people may recall, they very recently confirmed that the level of support that individuals like Anjem Choudary and his group Al-Muhajiroun/Islam4UK have amongst the British Muslim population is practically zero.

    And I don’t have an agenda.

    Sure. And Barack Obama isn’t the President of the United States…

  37. Shamit — on 26th January, 2010 at 2:49 pm  

    Tom

    they abandoned the natives to pursue diversity, traditional history at school was scrapped in favour of apologizing for the slave trade

    couple of quick questions:

    1) Could you give me some examples of policies which abandoned the natives to pursue diversity? I am a native like Jai and Sunny and most of us who are writing on this blog. Or do you believe the BNP definition of natives.

    2) Are you in favour of the slave trade? If so why.

    3) Have you looked at the world lately? I think Britain’s diversity and its connections with the commonwealth especially with the indian subcontinent provides us with a strategic competitive advantage. You disagree – I would like to know why?

    4) Is it any wonder that the natives are in revolt, – Again who are these natives?

    5) The only thing I agree with you is that there has been too much and sometimes well dodgy immigration from South Asia (for example for working in restaurants) and this bloody government has done nothing to stop that. That kind of immigration does not add value to anyone.

    So if you have the guts would you please answer my questions – Look forward to your responses.

  38. Shamit — on 26th January, 2010 at 2:51 pm  

    Jai -

    And I don’t have an agenda.

    Sure. And Barack Obama isn’t the President of the United States…

    Maybe in Tom’s world, Barrack Obama is not fit to be President because of his skin colour or may be because his father was a Muslim.

    Am I wrong Tom?

  39. Sunny — on 26th January, 2010 at 3:00 pm  

    How is it that when Muslims do far worse than this they are a “tiny minority of extremists”?

    Wait, is our troll complaining about tarring a majority because of the actions of a minority?? Surely not.

    Oh sorry, that only applies when it comes to whites rather than Muslims, right Old Pickler?

  40. damon — on 26th January, 2010 at 3:11 pm  

    I don’t know if this will be food for thought for anyone.
    It’s Rod Liddle’s Millwall site again yesterday and today, with a thread titled: ”70s/80s Disco and Soul Playlist”.

    http://www.millwall.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=41567&start=1

    This is an ”EDL friendly” site. But not all of them are.
    Particularly the guy who starts off the thread, who seems to be a solid anti-racist, and has an avatar showing a swastika being binned.

    ”monkeymfc” comes in on page two with some really lame selections (I think).

    My point being, these are the people who UAF try to make out as ”Nazi’s”.

    But they’re not really Nazi’s. It’s more complicated than that.
    (Some are just simple racists – and admit so).

  41. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 4:20 pm  

    Shamit@38

    Yes you’re wrong. Delighted that he won, mind you, I wanted him to win for all the wrong reasons, his politics are rubbish as we’re now finding out. Even more delighted that Michelle and the kids are first family – so there.

  42. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 4:28 pm  

    Jai@36

    What’s with all this BNP/KKK stuff, and you say I have an agenda?

    Stop wriggling you can’t get away from it: the weight of survey data shows that an uncomfortably large number of British Muslims were in support of 7th July bombings.

  43. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 5:31 pm  

    Shamit@37

    1. can’t point to a specific policy or though I’m sure there are plenty, I suggest you check out Harriet Harman’s oeuvre. This is England dammit, govt should promote Englishness and expect all those invited to melt into our pot asap we’re not interested in integrating mini cultures we expect immigrants to assimilate to discard whatever baggage they arrived with and immerse themselves in their new lives. Travel the world to enjoy multi culture travel to England to benefit from ours.

    2. No

    3. Strategic competitive advantage? You’re having a laugh, right? What possible advantage does the UK get from being a commonwealth member that we wouldn’t get anyway? Any investment is down to political stability, EU membership, OECD etc. Anyway hardly anyone objects to diversity it’s the scale that we have a problem with: on a proportionate basis inward migration under this lot is the equivalent of 60M new arrivals in India yes that’s right 60,000,000 immigrants to India. Are you telling me that the Indians wouldn’t be mightily peeved?

    4. Who are the natives? Well, the BNP def is okay but too limited I would include lots of black, brown and mongoloid people who have arrived since 1948 that have bought into the melting pot theory. Having had the unhappy experience of speaking to Sunny on the radio a couple of times I would certainly not consider him a native by any stretch, you might well be.

  44. Sunny — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:01 pm  

    that an uncomfortably large number of British Muslims were in support of 7th July bombings.

    complete horse-shit

  45. Jai — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:02 pm  

    What’s with all this BNP/KKK stuff,

    The KKK was never mentioned in #36. And my original points still stand.

    the weight of survey data shows that an uncomfortably large number of British Muslims were in support of 7th July bombings.

    Two major independently-conducted surveys show that they do not, as quoted in #27.

    This is England dammit, govt should promote Englishness and expect all those invited to melt into our pot asap we’re not interested in integrating mini cultures we expect immigrants to assimilate to discard whatever baggage they arrived with and immerse themselves in their new lives. Travel the world to enjoy multi culture travel to England to benefit from ours.

    Presumably you therefore support the termination or minimisation of the sale & transmission of all cultural imports from the United States — the dominant external cultural influence on Britain, by far — including American music, films, television programmes, clothing, foodstuffs, and restaurants. Likewise for anything else which does not originate in England, including cultural imports from mainland Europe.

  46. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:17 pm  

    Jai@45

    Re read 36.

    What are you on about? Please reply in broadly relevant terms to my posts.

  47. Don — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:23 pm  

    …govt should promote Englishness… Shudder. What would that look like? A glossy booklet posted through every door? An Englishness tsar?

    …we expect immigrants to assimilate, to discard whatever baggage they arrived with, and immerse themselves in their new lives. Do we? All I ask is that they be good neighbours and return the hedge-trimmer in the condition in which it was lent.

    Yes, obviously there is some ‘baggage’ which is positively toxic. But we avert our eyes from those on this site and never, ever address issues such as forced marriages or ‘honour’ killings. Heaven forfend. We’re all happy-clappy multi-culti’s here, right?

  48. Don — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:27 pm  

    BTW, is it just me or are all posts delineated by single digits? So that it is difficult to know if you are reading post 6, 16, 26 or 36? As posts often run into the hundreds it makes referring back rather awkward.

  49. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:28 pm  

    You want those issues addressed Don? By all means, address them …

  50. Don — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:34 pm  

    What, again?

  51. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:36 pm  

    @ Tom Jones # 43 – Please explain what constitutes a native? It helps if we know what we are talking about. I accept you do not view Sunny as a native. I also accept that you are willing to concede that some individuals from a non-Anglo-Saxon background may be natives. So please elucidate, what are your specific qualifying benchmarks?

  52. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:39 pm  

    @ Don # 50 – I though you said that they hadn’t been addressed. So what is it, they have been addressed or they haven’t been addressed?

  53. Don — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:49 pm  

    Miriam,

    I was being sarcastic. We have covered these issues a lot, many of our regulars are active campaigners. It’s a big part of what happens here, Tom clearly hadn’t grasped that about PP, I thought you had.

    My mistake.

  54. Jai — on 26th January, 2010 at 6:53 pm  

    The KKK was never mentioned in #36.

    I’ll revise that statement: I did briefly mention the KKK in relation to the ties some members of the BNP’s leadership have to that group. However, the main section of #36 was clearly referring to the BNP itself.

    What are you on about?

    It’s crystal clear. If someone is going to present paranoid strawman arguments, then the same principle of flawed logic can be applied to other anologous situations.

    However, I’ll make it as simple as possible: If it is claimed that there is a threat to this country from “an uncomfortably large number” of British Muslims who allegedly support the actions of the 7/7 bombers (despite the fact that both authoritative independent surveys and the British intelligence services have confirmed that the numbers are certainly not “100,000-150,000″), then one would equally claim that there is a far bigger threat to this country from millions of people who presumably support (explicitly or implicitly) the actions & goals of the BNP, a political party campaigning for national election and whose leadership’s backgrounds & aspirations include the various areas summarised in #36 (most of which is now widely known in the public domain).

    Again, if one is going to follow that flawed line of logic. Which is not a good idea.

    Please reply in broadly relevant terms to my posts.

    Already done, including #45.

  55. Old Pickler — on 26th January, 2010 at 7:09 pm  

    that only applies when it comes to whites rather than Muslims

    “Whites rather than Muslims” is a false dichotomy. Many Muslims are white and many more non-whites are not Muslim.

  56. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 7:20 pm  

    My apologies Don … I haven’t actually been here that long.

  57. Don — on 26th January, 2010 at 7:27 pm  

    No worries. I don’t post that often these days, no reason you should read between my lines. Didn’t mean to be snarky.

  58. MiriamBinder — on 26th January, 2010 at 7:30 pm  

    You should post more often … and I didn’t feel you were being snarky (whatever that may be ;) )

  59. Tom Johnson — on 26th January, 2010 at 7:59 pm  

    Jai@54

    Patronizing and abstruse in one post wow!

    Notwithstanding the couple of surveys you cite, for the last time, the weight of survey data from reputable polling orgs is clear: an uncomfortably large number of British Muslims supported the 7th July bombings, go and read them not just one or two that fit your prejudices.

    The idea that BNP members or supporters represent any sort of threat comparable with Islamic extremists is laughable just compare the crime sheets, British Islamists: kidnap hostage taking murder (Yemen) mass murder 52 (London underground) conspiracy to highjack and down multiple aircraft (Atlantic) fighting for the Taliban and al qaeda the list of infamy is endless, the BNP a paper tiger, as sinned against as sinning. The BNP’s support would be nowhere had New Lab not deliberately orchestrated mass immigration to create ‘facts on the ground.’

    As for the final para @45 even more confused and confusing than your other missives.

  60. Jai — on 27th January, 2010 at 10:49 am  

    the BNP a paper tiger, as sinned against as sinning.

    That statement alone tells us all we needed to know.

    As for the final para @45 even more confused and confusing than your other missive

    You made claims about “Englishness” and so on. My response was the following, to re-iterate:

    “Presumably you therefore support the termination or minimisation of the sale & transmission of all cultural imports from the United States — the dominant external cultural influence on Britain, by far — including American music, films, television programmes, clothing, foodstuffs, and restaurants. Likewise for anything else which does not originate in England, including cultural imports from mainland Europe.”

    Again, crystal clear.

  61. Jai — on 27th January, 2010 at 11:18 am  

    the BNP a paper tiger

    Not quite. In fact, a member of the party’s senior leadership has confirmed in writing on this very website that, although they don’t expect to win the next General Election, their aim is to actively continue to poison the well so that their racist ideas gain as much widespread currency as possible within British society as a whole.

    Furthermore, the biggest weapons haul intended for terrorist purposes ever found in this country was discovered at the home of a BNP member.

    Therefore, given the following:

    a political party whose leaders have a history of Holocaust denial, are open apologists for the KKK, have actively protested against the actions of RAF veterans involved in fighting the Nazis in WW2, have been caught on video admitting to their supporters that they’re deliberately scapegoating Muslims and hiding their antisemitism as a vehicle to achieve political power, are dedicated to stripping non-white Brits of all legal safeguards currently protecting them from racially-motivated persecution & harrassment and reducing this country’s non-white population from 10% to 1% despite having allegedly abandoned their “voluntary repatriation” policies, and have confirmed in writing that they plan to implement what is essentially full-scale racial apartheid in Britain if they ever achieved power.

    …along with the fact that they now have two MEPs and numerous other members sitting on local British councils (something fringe Islamist groups like Al-Mujahiroun/Islam4UK and their supporters certainly do not)…

    .….it raises the question of why the EDL is not mobilising huge numbers of people to publicly oppose them. Assuming that the EDL is serious about protecting this country and everything positive that it stands for, of course.

  62. douglas clark — on 27th January, 2010 at 11:27 am  

    Tom Johnson @ 34,

    Marxist claptrap from start to finish.

    Really?

    Now you have determined my political allegiances’, completely wrongly as it happens, how about you tell us what yours are?

  63. Jai — on 27th January, 2010 at 12:08 pm  

    the weight of survey data from reputable polling orgs is clear: an uncomfortably large number of British Muslims supported the 7th July bombings,

    Tom, perhaps you should provide URL links to these alleged surveys so that readers can take a look at the results themselves.

    Incidentally, the two surveys I mentioned earlier were conducted by extremely reputable polling orgs. And again, the lack of support amongst British Muslims for fanatical groups such as Al-Muhajiroun/Islam4UK has recently been confirmed by the British intelligence services. Perhaps you should take your own advice and consider that the EDL’s claims may not actually be accurate, rather than selectively referencing alleged sources that “fit your own prejudices”.

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