Paranoia in the skies


by Sunny
20th August, 2006 at 9:20 pm    

Patrick Mercer, the Tory Homeland Security spokesman, said last night: “This is a victory for terrorists. These people on the flight have been terrorised into behaving irrationally.

“For those unfortunate two men to be victimised because of the colour of their skin is just nonsense.”

Nonsense, yes, but not surprising. News of Mutiny on Flight 613 is a state of affairs our government has not helped by constantly screaming about ‘criticial alert’ and ‘imminent danger’ and all sorts of other paranoid language past any point of reasonable restaint.

Phrases valiantly used after 7/7 – “We are not afraid” or “Fuck you Osama I’m going by London Transport” ring hollow now. Labour is intent on breaking the people’s spirit and make them into paranoid freaks. As Guido points out:

Depressingly most people support even more authoritarian policies including extending detention without trial, softened into compliance as day after day the news media and the government project the sense of a nation under continuous attack. During these days of heightened terror alerts it is probably not popular to recommend reading Karl Popper’s The Open Society and Its Enemies, but it is certainly the right time to remember what we are fighting to defend.


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  1. Bikhair aka Taqiyyah — on 20th August, 2006 at 9:53 pm  

    Sunny,

    I wonder if Bin Laden and Al Q had planed to change Western soceity in this way?

  2. Sunny — on 20th August, 2006 at 10:00 pm  

    That question should be for j0nz. He is falling for their plan perfectly. Poor kid.

  3. Bikhair aka Taqiyyah — on 20th August, 2006 at 10:07 pm  

    Sunny,

    I suppose if you turn a society against itself the work is done for you.

    Anyway whats up with that Rave? I need somewhere to pass out my fresh off the press Wahhabi material.

    LOL.

  4. Clairwil — on 20th August, 2006 at 10:56 pm  

    It’s so depressing. If I’d been in charge I’d have booted all the scaredy cats off the plane. I find that sort of mass hysteria terrifying.

  5. Sid — on 20th August, 2006 at 10:59 pm  

    Everyone and his uncle is recommending Karl Popper to me. Is he that good?

  6. leon — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:12 pm  

    Everyone and his uncle is recommending Karl Popper to me. Is he that good?

    No idea but will be checking that book out now…

  7. mirax — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:15 pm  

    It wasn’t really mass hysteria Clairewil, just a handful of very stupid passengers being indulged by airline staff who should know better.

    Speaking arabic! Really disgraceful episode. The two men should sue the airlines.

  8. mirax — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:19 pm  

    Sunny. Leon, how come your two honour killing threads have the comments closed? I wanted to post something on them but couldn’t. What to do?

  9. Katy Newton — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:27 pm  

    Ah, Karl Popper. He is perhaps best known for repudiating the classical observationalist-inductivist account of scientific method by advancing empirical falsifiability as the criterion for distinguishing scientific theory from non-science; and for his vigorous defense of liberal democracy and the principles of social criticism which he took to make the flourishing of the “open society” possible.

    *surreptitiously closes Wikipedia window*

  10. leon — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:36 pm  

    Mirax, no idea, I didn’t know my one was closed…?

  11. leon — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:36 pm  

    Katy, erm? What?!

  12. sonia — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:44 pm  

    goodness yes Sid!

    I am thoroughly disgusted by this ‘mutiny’ – absolutely terrible, if this is what life has come down to, Osama and his loons have won indeed. Bikhair, i think this is indeed exactly what Osama and co. wanted – how better to turn people ( the ones who resist an us. them differentiation) into an us them category?

    sad very sad/

  13. Katy Newton — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:44 pm  

    Yes, that’s what I thought too :-)

  14. Katy Newton — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:45 pm  

    (#13 was for Leon)

  15. mirax — on 20th August, 2006 at 11:49 pm  

    If you guys want to stop this sort of stupidity in its tracks before it takes off in a big way, you have to direct your ire at the culprit : the airline. Organise a campaign against it.Find those two asian blokes and interview them. Highlight their illtreatment. Pressurise this and other airlines to have a consistent and fair policy towards ALL passengers, and better procedures for dealing with this kind of ‘mutiny’(like offloading the poor scared fucks on the tarmac, politely but firmly).

    Where’s Refresh? Inigo Wilson’s lexicon is nothing against this case which is a civil rights issue. Here is where you jump.

  16. Sunny — on 21st August, 2006 at 12:05 am  

    Mirax – Threads over a month old are automatically closed, just to prevent comment and trackback spam. Post it on the weekend thread or email it to us?

    You’re right though, these is the sort of incidents that acitivist groups need to direct their ire at, instead of bloody Inigo Wilson. I’m sure the interviews will turn up sooner or later. All the papers will be scrambling for this I bet.

  17. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 12:44 am  

    [Cross-post from 911 Blues - this is probably the better place]

    Can I write in support of j0nz.

    Bear in mind most of these holidaymakers would probably have been abroad at the time of the ‘John Reid Special’ and would have got their news intermittently and from newly arriving holidaymakers. And the only topic they would have been discussing was the delays at the airports and of course terrorism.

    Waiting at an airport in Spain for a flight at 3.00am is not great. Lots of tired children, and of course (from my experience) a bunch of drinkers. It would take only one person to start the rumours, and mass hysteria need not be far behind.

    I would not be hasty and condemn all the travellers, but would be very wary of people who initiate such behaviour. Rather than treat all the travellers with courtesy when reporters are interviewing them, I would pinpoint the ones that started the rumours and ask of them what and why. And if necessary their background. Yes, even propensity for racist behaviour.

    What is worrying is that people, supposedly, didn’t stand up in defence of these poor lads. In fact I happen to believe there would have been people there that would have spoken up in support of good common sense and decency. I would like to hear of and from these people.

    The British people as a rule do not let injustice stand.

    What I would go on to say to j0nz, from what I have heard of and from you (mainly from you), I would not want to share the same flight as you. I understand that a friend of your’s was a victim of the 7/7 bombing – and if it hadn’t been for a problem with your wrist, you two could have been a casualty.

    Having written the sort of material you have and the obsession with spreading hate, I would suggest counselling (I think I may have suggested that before). Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a recognised condition and you may need help.

  18. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 1:13 am  

    Mirax,

    There are serious differences between the two cases. The Inigo Wilson case does not leave a Conservative Party blogsite with any credit. And as I think I intimated, Inigo Wilson will be left in the wilderness, especially after their ludicrous editorial after the controversy gathered pace.

    This one does not leave Mr Blair/Mr Reid with much credibility. Spreading paranoia as a means of dealing with our security is pathetis. It leaves us with longterm problems related to increased tensions within society.

    Note that the ‘mastermind’ arrested in Pakistan which triggered the whole affair, may end up being released.

    I am beginning to think the Pakistan government needs to be at the sharp end of a campaign where they are falsely leaving the muslim community exposed with political show arrests.

  19. Kismet Hardy — on 21st August, 2006 at 2:03 am  

    Someone here once asked something along the lines of ‘do you think the government would be so stupid to shut down the airports and cause mass hysteria and do untold damage to the economy’

    Well here’s your answer. Except it’s not stupid. It’s bloody clever.

    Now even generally pious commentators like Alison Pearson is making sickening comments like: ‘ooh I was at the airport and my bag was checked by a muslim and I thought is he with us or against us’ in a freaking national newspaper.

    The only way to scare the shit out of people is making the effect large scale. Screw the cause, it’s the result that wins votes

  20. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 2:15 am  

    Kismet – do untold damage to the economy and our standing when abroad.

  21. Kismet Hardy — on 21st August, 2006 at 2:20 am  

    I’m not going abroad in a long time dude. I’ve still got a sodding Bangladesh passport and my first name is Muhammad. You think I’m mad?!

    Hey, I’ve got my Britishness Test booked for September the 20th. I’ve got the book from the Home Office. Maybe I’ll ask Sunny to post up my experience here afterwards…

  22. Katy Newton — on 21st August, 2006 at 2:21 am  

    Kismet, I think I hear you saying that you aren’t going to whisk me away for a romantic Euro citybreak after all.

  23. Sunny — on 21st August, 2006 at 2:47 am  

    Kismet, I think I hear you saying that you aren’t going to whisk me away for a romantic Euro citybreak after all.

    Do you know how cheap he is? I’m still waiting for the pint he promised last year!

    I am beginning to think the Pakistan government needs to be at the sharp end of a campaign where they are falsely leaving the muslim community exposed with political show arrests.

    Refresh – do you believe the recent arrests of the 21 men will turn out to be false alarm?

  24. Kismet Hardy — on 21st August, 2006 at 6:53 am  

    Katy, you are a typical woman and this saddens me. You twist everything I say. I clearly specified my uncle’s 1-star hotel in Forest Gate. And there was no mention of whisking. Whisky and frisky business yes, but if I’m to whisk your egg then first you must prove your mettle in the knob suck department, which can only be proven when you get acquainted with my animals.

    Sunny, you are a typical man and this saddens me. When I said the words ‘buy’, ‘beer’, ‘you’ and ‘me’, you twisted it to suggest it ought to be I that buy you beer when, clearly, it is you that buys me beer.

    I feel sorry for both of you

  25. Roger — on 21st August, 2006 at 10:05 am  

    Actually, given the way that various green organisations have criticised cheap air travel, is all this done by Provisional Greenpeace, perhaps?

    As for the behaviour to the two allegedly arab/oriental/ foreign travellers, it was a disgrace to British commonsense and toleration. Refresh may give reasons for some of the panic- they aren’t good reasons though, even if they’re true. The airline should have told anyone who objected that they could get off and wait for another ‘plane. Other people shoul;d have got off in sympathy when they were thrown off.

  26. Roger — on 21st August, 2006 at 10:09 am  

    Forgot to mention: John Reid is an example of how someone can stop being an avowed believer in authorutarian dictatorships and still think the same way. It’s easier to take him out of Stalinism than it is to take Stalinism out of him.

  27. Bert Preast — on 21st August, 2006 at 10:09 am  

    Ah, a new breed of British heroes. With rather embarrassingly wobbly upper lips.

  28. Average White Bloke — on 21st August, 2006 at 10:34 am  

    If these wimps are too scared to fly I would suggest that government asks for their passports back as they are too stupid to be let out of the country again. What an effing embarrassment for the rest of us. I hope the two Asian blokes got some decent compensation from Monarch. I also hope that Monarch will be fined massively by whatever oversight body deals with airlines for such contemtible treatment of passengers guilty of nothing but being “unEnglish”.

  29. Billy — on 21st August, 2006 at 10:55 am  

    What I’m curious about is how these holidaymakers knew the men were speaking Arabic.

  30. Kismet Hardy — on 21st August, 2006 at 10:57 am  

    Maybe they were speaking Aramaic and they’d heard that’s what Mel Gibson speaks when he’s conspiring to kill Jews

    (shit. sorry, on hellish comedown)

  31. Jai — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:17 am  

    =>”What I’m curious about is how these holidaymakers knew the men were speaking Arabic.”

    Exactly. Especially as they were identified as “Asian”.

    Asians don’t speak Arabic, unless it’s Muslims who are learning the language for religious reasons and perhaps practicing the language between themselves to improve their fluency.

    This reminds me of that story a while ago (I think it was last year) regarding an Asian guy travelling on a domestic flight in the US. Another passenger was totally freaked out by him and claimed he’d heard the guy “speaking Arabic on his mobile”.

    It turned out the gentleman concerned was Gujarati and just phoning his mum.

  32. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:18 am  

    Roger, I totally agree. Monarch have a lot to answer for. I was glad to hear an interview with a pilot who said pretty much that those that didn’t want to travel should be left behind.

    I would have got off in sympathy.

    Rosa Parks showed the way.

  33. Kismet Hardy — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:20 am  

    Maybe he was telling his mum how to set the alarm clock

    Which can be read as being alarming talk

  34. Kismet Hardy — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:21 am  

    PS. How’d he get to phone his mum? I thought phones were banned on planes?

  35. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:22 am  

    Sunny, as a matter of principle I don’t accept anything as done and dusted and until it is so.

    So when you hear the rubbish about the ‘mastermind’ and his friends and family – you’ve got to think twice.

    His father, who helps to set up a charity ends up being labelled. So you can’t do charity work if you are a muslim. This is a thought I have being having for a very long time.

    Interpal was another one.

  36. Kismet Hardy — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:24 am  

    “Some of the older children, who had seen the terror alert on television, were starting to mutter things like, ‘Those two look like they’re bombers.’

    The future looks bleak

  37. Jai — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:35 am  

    Kismet,

    re: post #34

    As I mentioned before, it didn’t happen very recently. I believe it was sometime last year although it may have been the early months of 2006.

    Phones were allowed before take-off until the recent events at Heathrow, remember.

  38. Jagdeep — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:41 am  

    His father, who helps to set up a charity ends up being labelled. So you can’t do charity work if you are a muslim. This is a thought I have being having for a very long time.

    Refresh

    If people are using charities for non charitable purposes ie: for Jihad and terrorist reasons, they should be investigated and held to account. People like you should reserve your judgment and realise that the scruples of extremists who cleave to a terrorist philosophy will not hold back from using charities as a front for their activities.

    Rather than do that you become incredulous and claim it is part of some wider conspiracy to stop Muslims doing charitable work. That is dangerous nonsense of the highest type but I suppose if you are in sympathy with them you can descend into such a mindset.

    Extremist groups have used charities as fronts for money laundering and fund raising since time began. Various Hindu charitable organisations in England have been investigated for links with extremist outfits in India, back in the 1980′s it was the same with Khalistanis using Sikh charities as a front, and the same has been true of Tamil and Irish extremists.

  39. Leon — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:44 am  

    Good point Jagdeep, there’s an excellent book that looks into the money systems behind Al Qeada etc Terror Inc by Loretta Napoleoni: http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/443234/-/Product.html?searchstring=terror+inc

  40. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 12:00 pm  

    Jagdeep, I think you need to read with care to what I actually say.

    I actually say to hold judgement until we know the facts.

    I am not incredulous about anything – other than the ease with which societies can be subverted.

  41. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 12:02 pm  

    I think I will have to be very precise and avoid giving opportunities to derail these threads. So can we stick with the topic. The mutiny on the flight.

    Jagdeep – can we stick with the topic.

  42. Jagdeep — on 21st August, 2006 at 12:18 pm  

    Refresh

    I read what you said carefully. You described the investigation over the charity as ‘rubbish’. That is not witholding judgment. The further assertion of it being part of a conspiracy to persecute charitable Muslims is also not an indication of witholding judgment.

    ==========

    Regarding the events on the plane. On an earlier thread I said that the secondary tragedy of the rise of the particular kind of fascist ideology we are seeing is that it will fuck up our society. This incident is an example of this. Gradually, slowly, bit by bit, racism accrues, attitudes harden and incremental unpleasentness increases – for everyone.

    However, I believe Britain is a fundamentally fair and just society, and I pay my respects to Patrick Mercer the Tory spokesman for his response.

    But this secondary tragedy is just another reason to defeat, ideologically and materially, the extremism and menacing activism that causes this hardening of hearts and interpersonal relationships. That is where the primary blame lies, amongst the people who would put a bomb on the bus on which Rosa Parks rode and then call it ‘liberation’.

    In our day to day lives we have to dael with the small forest fires like this as best we can. This is the slow degradation of society and trust that this fascism leads to. We must deal with both resolutely.

  43. Chairwoman — on 21st August, 2006 at 12:45 pm  

    Kismet Hardy – It’s the extremely naughty corner for you.

  44. Roger — on 21st August, 2006 at 12:56 pm  

    ““Some of the older children, who had seen the terror alert on television, were starting to mutter things like, ‘Those two look like they’re bombers.’

    The future looks bleak ”

    Even more alarming prospects for the future. The next step in logic: “Those two look so obviously not like bombers that they are obviously cunning bombers.”

  45. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 1:47 pm  

    Jagdeep

    I think you may be putting words in my mouth. Look at the sentence where I say ‘rubbish’. You’ll find its different to how you quote me saying it.

    But the main reason I can’t find the energy to engage with you is that – the amount of advice offered, often with goodwill, becomes difficult to respond to. And I feel it’d be going round in circles.

    Back to the ‘rubbish’, what do you feel about the ‘mastermind’ possibly being released without any charges? If from the initial arrest his family then becomes labelled – how are we to assess the intelligence and whatever that flows from it – such as the huge disruption.

  46. Jagdeep — on 21st August, 2006 at 2:32 pm  

    Refresh, I have re-read your original post, and all my points stand, I don’t have anything to add to them.

  47. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 2:36 pm  

    Jagdeep, I’m glad about that.

  48. DR1001 — on 21st August, 2006 at 3:51 pm  

    Surely the point made by Refresh was to wait and see if these charity work DID constitute any links to extremism.

    Otherwise the danger I see if if there is any calls for help to charity by a muslim organisation, these claims will turn people off from making plegdes and helping real victims the everday people.
    we have to be carefil

  49. Jagdeep — on 21st August, 2006 at 4:23 pm  

    DR1001

    That’s not the point Refresh is making. He is saying that he senses a conspiracy to target and persecute Muslim charities is the motivation behind the investigation, rather than any real suspicion that they were involved in raising money for extremist organisations.

  50. Arif — on 21st August, 2006 at 4:30 pm  

    What Refresh says … very interesting how a short post in full view gets such different interpretarions.

    My view: he was saying that the example of charities being unfairly tried and found guilty by media as a reason he now waits for legal trials and convictions before rushing to judgment about the guilt of more than twenty people detained in the current liquid bomb investigation.

  51. Jagdeep — on 21st August, 2006 at 4:38 pm  

    Arif

    Naahhh….he is saying they are innocent and the charges are trumped up fabrications. Part of a conspiracy to defame Muslims. In pure denial about the problem to begin with. Whereas you would say let’s wait and see, they might be guilty they might be innocent, you wouldnt deny the existence of the extremism in the first place. (at least I hope not)

    I understand the sense of denial, where it comes from. But it doesnt mean it shouldnt be challenged.

    In the meantime, 11 of those arrested have been charged:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5271998.stm

    Looks like the conspiracy has been working overtime….

  52. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 4:52 pm  

    Jagdeep, is it any wonder I’ve not tried to engage with you.

    You’ve no idea. Will you wait until the legal trials are over before passing judgement?

    Don’t you think the blogs are littered with people with a similar outlook demanding this that and the other from everyone.

    I used the phrase done and dusted. So lets wait for that.

    And what of the ‘mastermind’?

    Arif and DR1001 are spot on.

    If we all follow Jagdeep, we will end up getting the society he warns us of.

  53. Jagdeep — on 21st August, 2006 at 5:03 pm  

    Refresh, the society I want is an open, free, democratic one, where trust between all people and races exists, free of prejudice, bigotry and communalism, and one ready to challenge the fascism that arises within all groups in that society. When people have their heads stuck in the sand about extremism and fascism that threatens all that is good in society from one particular group, I speak up about it. Claiming a priori that there is no problem, is part of the problem.

  54. Chairwoman — on 21st August, 2006 at 5:13 pm  

    Jagdeep – well said!

  55. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 5:19 pm  

    Jagdeep, that may be so and its shared by the vast majority. But you make assumptions which are false. You do not read what is said to you, with the risk that the agenda is pretty much formed.

    And I have little or no patience with starting up the whole thing again and again.

    Don’t you think this happens each time a person makes a debut on PP?

    And I am to take each one of you seriously?

    It actually reminds me of j0nz in the eraly days and one or two others been and gone (and appear occasionally).

    Did anyone say there was no problem. There are lots of problems some you will help alleviate others you will exacerbate.

    I am like most people and have intense dislike of people who make assumtions about me.

  56. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 5:20 pm  

    Chairwoman, surely you’re not endorsing Jagdeep’s view of me?

  57. Chairwoman — on 21st August, 2006 at 5:29 pm  

    Refresh – No, No, No. I am so sorry. I should have been more specific. I was referring to the open free antifascist society. Mea culpa.

  58. Refresh — on 21st August, 2006 at 6:43 pm  

    Chairwoman – thank you.

  59. Kismet Hardy — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:22 pm  

    Chairwoman – naughty corner

    Come sit on my lonely hardon do

  60. Katy Newton — on 21st August, 2006 at 11:49 pm  

    Kismet! Leave the Chairwoman alone!

    *seething with jealousy*

  61. Kismet Hardy — on 22nd August, 2006 at 12:01 am  

    There’s space for three

    Space in my head, space in my pants, space in my barren, empty, lonely soul

  62. Sunny — on 22nd August, 2006 at 12:09 am  

    I think suspicion on charity work will depend on which side you come from, to be honest.

    When there was a Charity Commission enquiry on Sewa International, accused of helping RSS and VHP activities in India, mind was made up by people on either side before the investigation was even finished. There are good reasons to be suspicious of religious charities if they have links with political organisations. As Jagdeep points out, there have been other examples too. The UK based International Sikh Youth Federation charity got banned for sending resources to Khalistani orgs etc. Christian charities frequently get banned or at least criticised in India for evangelicial activities.

    What’s the solution? I guess more transparency. Even here, most Sikh Gurudwaras are charities and yet there are constant accusations of money being funelled into outside activties (usually just corruption).

    I think it’s rather like being a journalist. I get accused of being anti-Hindu/anti-Muslim/anti-Sikh all the time. I have to take it and carry on. Such is life. It shouldn’t stop you though.

  63. Sajn — on 22nd August, 2006 at 12:16 am  

    “Asians don’t speak Arabic, unless it’s Muslims who are learning the language for religious reasons and perhaps practicing the language between themselves to improve their fluency.”

    Just a gentle reminder that Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, Yemen, UAE, Oman, Kuwait and Bahrain are all in Asia (and thus Asian) and all speak Arabic.

  64. Kismet Hardy — on 22nd August, 2006 at 12:25 am  

    Everyone knows Asian means of Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan in the UK and Oriental in the US and other places that learn English from the US.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if most people on earth though Arab, or at least the Middle East, was a continent that had nothing to do with Asia.

    Seriously, tomorrow ask your receptionist or mailman or dungeon gimp which continent Arabs come from.

    You’ll be surprised.

  65. Roger — on 22nd August, 2006 at 8:32 am  

    There are also rather a lot of Chinese, Japanese, Korean Asians…

  66. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 1:58 pm  

    Came across this via one of the links in another of Sunny’s headers:

    South Asia Aug 18, 2006

    COMMENT
    Be skeptical … be very skeptical
    By M K Bhadrakumar

    ‘The London plot itself is becoming curiouser and curiouser. Reports have appeared that the British security agencies were feeling increasingly uncomfortable that their American counterparts rushed to make out that the alleged plot was linked to al-Qaeda. More importantly, it appears that sources in London have begun distancing themselves from the plot by claiming that the British side was pressured from Washington to go public with the plot despite a lack of evidence and clear and convincing facts whether any conspiracy in fact existed at all.’

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HH18Df03.html

  67. Sid — on 22nd August, 2006 at 2:10 pm  

    Refresh

    Are you suggesting that there’s no substance to last week’s terror plot because US anti-terror officials jumped the gun?

  68. Jagdeep — on 22nd August, 2006 at 2:13 pm  

    Too bad for MK Bhadrakumar that eleven people have been charged this morning.

    Those people that died on July 7th did not die.

    Repeat after me.

    They did not get exploded to death.

    *psychdelic hypnotising music begins*

    It is all a figment of your imagination.

    It is all a gigantic co-ordinated conspiracy.

    *psychdelic hypnotising music continues*

    Zionists and the FBI are conspiring and the illuminati will soon take over….

    *evil conspiring laugh Muuahahaha….*

  69. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 2:20 pm  

    Sid, I reserve my judgement. But it cannot go on where we can’t trust anyone.

    The article is very interesting as it covers so many issues.

    And I also thought the thread needed a new lease of life.

  70. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 2:21 pm  

    And to get Jagdeep excited, all over again.

  71. sonia — on 22nd August, 2006 at 2:24 pm  

    there is plenty of violence about one way and the other that’s hardly suprising given the cyclical aspect of violence which seems to escape a lot of so-called rational people. what is interesting is how groups choose to ‘portray’ that violence in order to influence outcomes.

  72. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 2:37 pm  

    Jagdeep, what is the illuminati?

    ‘and the illuminati will soon take over….

  73. Kismet Hardy — on 22nd August, 2006 at 4:18 pm  

    I could introduce you to some members of the illeterati…

  74. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 4:21 pm  

    Are they a part of it too?

  75. Jai — on 22nd August, 2006 at 5:30 pm  

    Refresh,

    =>”Are they a part of it too?”

    We’re all a part of it. All of us. In fact, everyone you know is too. Except you. You’re surrounded by us.

  76. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 5:37 pm  

    Global Reach I’d come to terms with – but Eternal Reach?

  77. Jai — on 22nd August, 2006 at 5:42 pm  

    Refresh,

    Our reach extends beyond the boundaries of death itself.

    The “contract” doesn’t terminate when a person breathes their last, y’know…..Oh no, that’s just the beginning…..

    (Okay, enough Kismetary from me, I think).

  78. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 5:46 pm  

    That’s cheered me up no end. Now I know what I’m dealing with.

  79. Jai — on 22nd August, 2006 at 5:49 pm  

    You have no idea what you’re dealing with. Join us, and we can become more powerful than you can possibly imagine, side-by-side, father and s–

    Okay I’m getting carried away. Kismet put your lightsaber away; always looking for an excuse to flash it around and boast about how long it is.

  80. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 6:10 pm  

    Before that we should unite under a motto*. We’ll need a very pointy flag, at least a pennant failing that maybe Jagdeep can bring his Festival of Britain bunting.

    *All get one before one gets all?

  81. Jai — on 22nd August, 2006 at 6:47 pm  

    =>”we should unite under a motto*.”

    Eg. “No you’re not paranoid. Everyone really is out to get you”.

  82. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 6:49 pm  

    I’ve seen that on a wall somewhere. ‘Tis you!

  83. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 6:50 pm  

    Who needs Kismet – now we’ve got the hang of it.

  84. Jai — on 22nd August, 2006 at 7:02 pm  

    No, you’ll need Kismet to properly induct you into the “movement”.

    It involves wearing baggy winter clothes in the middle of summer and making Arabic-sounding noises on a packed flight somewhere in Europe or the United States.

    Bonus points for flamboyantly doing namaaz before take-off and pretending to read a note with Arabic-looking squiggles on it.

  85. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 7:10 pm  

    I’ve a feeling he’ll be waiting a while. Unless I happen to be suffering from flu, or diabetes or suffering from withdrawal symptoms – like paranoia.

    Arabic isn’t difficult – don’t think those that matter know what it sounds like – but punjabi is easier.

    Now I will need a watch – I don’t wear one.

    Squiggles I learnt from VisionOn, so no problem there.

    Now Namaaz, I’d feel a hypocrite if I started doing that flamboyantly.

  86. Kismet Hardy — on 22nd August, 2006 at 7:35 pm  

    So let me get this straight.

    Am I being called a homosexual?

    I have nothing against them. Other than that one man. He wore a mask. I’d rather not talk about it.

  87. Kismet Hardy — on 22nd August, 2006 at 8:24 pm  

    well that killed it :-(

  88. Refresh — on 22nd August, 2006 at 8:29 pm  

    It was Jagdeep that done it.

  89. Kismet Hardy — on 22nd August, 2006 at 8:57 pm  

    He was only speaking the truth

    (and so it begins anew)

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