»   And let's be clear - in the aftermath of 9/11, plenty of 'patriots' called for Muslim groups to be outlawed simply because of their views. 1 hr ago

»   The day we let police shut down groups or protests simply because we don't like their views is when we lose our battle against extremism. 1 hr ago

»   I'm proud to live in a country that still cares about (tho record is patchy) civil liberties enough to let extremists hold demos today. 1 hr ago

»   ...if UAF crew were as vigorous in opposing Muslim extremists, they'd be able to deny EDL oxygen and support too. 2 hrs ago

»   Overheard one EDL guy telling a passerby: "We are the only group that oppose these [MAC] extremists". Therein lies the problem. 2 hrs ago

» More updates...


  • Family

    • Liberal Conspiracy
  • Comrades

    • Andy Worthington
    • Angela Saini
    • Bartholomew’s notes
    • Bleeding Heart Show
    • Bloggerheads
    • Blood & Treasure
    • Campaign against Honour Killings
    • Cath Elliott
    • Chicken Yoghurt
    • Daily Mail Watch
    • Dave Hill
    • Dr. Mitu Khurana
    • Europhobia
    • Faith in Society
    • Feminism for non-lefties
    • Feministing
    • Gender Bytes
    • Harry’s Place
    • IKWRO
    • MediaWatchWatch
    • Ministry of Truth
    • Natalie Bennett
    • New Statesman blogs
    • Operation Black Vote
    • Our Kingdom
    • Robert Sharp
    • Rupa Huq
    • Shiraz Socialist
    • Shuggy’s Blog
    • Stumbling and Mumbling
    • Ta-Nehisi Coates
    • The F Word
    • Though Cowards Flinch
    • Tory Troll
    • UK Polling Report
  • In-laws

    • Aaron Heath
    • Douglas Clark's saloon
    • Earwicga
    • Get There Steppin’
    • Incurable Hippie
    • Neha Viswanathan
    • Power of Choice
    • Rita Banerji
    • Sarah
    • Sepia Mutiny
    • Sonia Faleiro
    • Southall Black Sisters
    • The Langar Hall
    • Turban Head



  • Technorati: graph / links

    Sonia Deol under fire over 1984 programme


    by Rumbold
    17th January, 2010 at 2:29 pm    

    After the recent documentary on the 1984 massacres, presenter Sonia Deol has been heavily criticised because of the portrayal of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. There have even been calls for Sikhs to refuse to pay the licence fee:

    Sonia Deol was forced to delete her page on the Facebook website amid a barrage of criticism from fellow Sikhs over her film about the Indian army storming the Golden Temple in Amritsar, one of the faith’s most holy shrines, in 1984.

    Documentaries like this were always going to inspire strong emotions, but some of the criticism has been strange:

    Dr Sadhu Singh, chairman of the Council of Sikh Temples, said many viewers were angered that ‘the BBC showed him [Bhindranwale] looking like Bin Laden’.

    He said: ‘They used pictures of him wearing a turban and holding a gun. To someone who doesn’t know what Sikhism is about, it would be very misleading.

    He was a leading Sikh militant. It would have been odd to portray him as non-violent, especially as he and his followers took over the Harminder Sahib (Golden Temple), and were armed. Whatever you think of the rights and wrongs of the Khalistani conflict, you can’t deny that both sides resorted to violence.

    ‘Some people are very upset that the documentary also showed Sonia Deol dancing with Hindus as if there is no problem between Hindus and Sikhs.

    ‘The feeling is still there that people who were responsible for 1984 have not been brought to justice.’

    I agree with the latter bit, as will most people who know about 1984. But criticising her for dancing with Hindus who weren’t involved in the massacres (presumably)? Bizarre.

    For an different view that stays well clear of Khalistan, I would recommend The Widow Colony, which focuses on the women whose men folk were murdered, and who now struggle to live while still fighting for justice.

    (Hat-tip: Kulvinder in the comments)


                  Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: Media,Sikh






    76 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs
    1. Leon Green

      RT @pickledpolitics Blog post:: Sonia Deol under fire over 1984 programme http://bit.ly/5PAbav


    2. pickles

      Blog post:: Sonia Deol under fire over 1984 programme http://bit.ly/5PAbav




    1. A.C. — on 17th January, 2010 at 3:05 pm  

      Criticising Sonia Deol for dancing with Hindus who had nothing to do with the massacre is like criticising someone for dating a white person who had nothing to do with the colonial era.

      Historic wrongs can’t be made right by penalising innocent people.

    2. Bill Brown — on 17th January, 2010 at 3:20 pm  

      At least one Sikh was killed in Britain during the Khalistan agitation. Shotgunned to death.

      Like the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the Sikh extremists had an active intimidation-’n-extortion apparatus active in the U.K.

    3. Golam Murtaza — on 17th January, 2010 at 3:31 pm  

      I saw the documentary and found it moving and informative. I hope the bigots get over themselves and leave Sonia Deol alone soon.

    4. Kulvinder — on 17th January, 2010 at 3:51 pm  

      Sikh extremists had an active intimidation-’n-extortion apparatus active in the U.K

      have an active intimidation (though not extortion) apparatus in the U.K.

      They still try and shut down debate by screaming abuse and intimidating anyone who criticises.

      Whats irritating, and properly wrong, is the tendency to get spokemen who say something along the lines of

      ‘we’re outraged because bhanderwala wasn’t a theocrat, wasn’t a militant, wasn’t prepared to resort to violence’

      when his actions (let alone his words) say otherwise. Islamists who act as apologists for al-otaibiwould quite rightly be challenged and not simply be quoted, whereas sikh theocrats (sikhists?) aren’t held to account nearly enough (by the MSM).

      I’d be happier with a daily mail ‘outrage’ story that forced people like sadhu singh and davinder bal to justify their idiotic opinions than a fairly meek piece reporting what happened.

      I mean ffs

      The BBC is not responding to the Sikh community and we are thinking about organising a campaign to invoke the non-payment of licence fees by the 700,000 Sikhs in Britain.’

      There aren’t 700,000 sikhs in the UK, there isn’t a cohesive ‘sikh community’ and he can argue till hes blue in the face but he won’t get the vast vast majority of sikhs supporting ‘non-payment’ because the vast vast majority either won’t care about what happened 25 years ago and want to get on with their lives, or they actively disagree with him.

      I’d hope the media would recognise the fact a journalist - one of their colleagues - has been forced to shutdown her facebook page because of the vitriolic bigotry vented at her, and confront these morons (as they would do if this were islamic related) than simply file-and-forget.

    5. Golam Murtaza — on 17th January, 2010 at 5:03 pm  

      Kulvinder - interesting that you mention al-Otaibi. I was reminded of the Great Mosque siege too. Some broad similarities to what happened in 1984 (though key differences too).

    6. A.C. — on 17th January, 2010 at 5:15 pm  

      The joke about not paying the license fee and attacking Sonia Deol is that both of those actions will speed up the eventual demise of the Asian Network.

    7. Roger — on 17th January, 2010 at 5:37 pm  

      How very sad.

      I thought the docu was very fair and balanced.

      Huge mistakes were made on both sides of this conflict and it’s bizarre to think there are those amongst the UK Sikh community who feel their ‘Saint’ is beyond criticism.

    8. comrade.. — on 17th January, 2010 at 6:04 pm  

      Read the posts on ‘Sikh story’

      Bhinderwale would make a good BNP candidate.

    9. Parvinder — on 17th January, 2010 at 6:15 pm  

      Totally agree Roger, overall the documentary was balanced and fair and yes, no one should be beyond criticisim.

    10. lemontea — on 17th January, 2010 at 7:38 pm  

      Angryazn what do you mean by “stop pretending the brits aren’t behind poverty in india” ???

    11. Ishwar — on 17th January, 2010 at 8:07 pm  

      From the mail story:

      ‘Ms Deol – who hosts BBC Breakfast at weekends and News 24 bulletins – deleted her Facebook profile onWednesday after the row escalated.

      She told fans: ‘Time to shut this fan page down guys. Sorry. I know loadsof you have been superb, but a small minority have not understood what I am/am not in control of personally.’’

      There is no evidence in the article that the ‘row’ escalated.

      Also it’s clear to me that she shut the page down herself because she could deal with the criticism.

      The news story about this is a non-story. Sikhs are not ‘furious’ and but the documentary was far from balanced. Anyone who has the ability to take information from sources other than the TV knows that.

      ‘Totally agree Roger, overall the documentary was balanced and fair and yes, no one should be beyond criticisim.’

      That includes Sonia Deol, the BBC and you guys :)

    12. Ishwar — on 17th January, 2010 at 8:15 pm  

      Also it’s clear to me that she shut the page down herself because she could deal with the criticism.

      *couldn’t

      Last thing - when BBC is biased, they show balance by talking to the most articulate people on the side they want to show bias and then interview some young or inarticulate person on the other side. This definitely happened in this documentary.

    13. Ishwar — on 17th January, 2010 at 8:34 pm  

      This is the BBC that had journalistic quality:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx4LDMu6SqQ

      All I want is justice for the victims on all sides. Don’t care which ‘side’. Indian democracy if you can call it that is a joke. Not just Sikhs, but low caste Hindus, Christians, Muslims have been on the receiving end of the state machinery at some time or other.

      If you are a human you will recognise the need for justice. For some of you indian state machinery apologists it’s sad that you’ll only appreciate the value of justice when justice is denied to you.

    14. persephone — on 17th January, 2010 at 9:12 pm  

      This made me laugh: “There have even been calls for Sikhs to refuse to pay the licence fee”

      As did this: “‘Some people are very upset that the documentary also showed Sonia Deol dancing with Hindus”

      And the only part of what Dr Sadhu Singh said that I agreed with is this excerpt: “To someone who doesn’t know what Sikhism is about, it would be very misleading.”

      Because most Sikhs are known to be hardy. Most have experienced or have been told of the hardships that Sikhs have faced. So a documentary by lil’ ole Sonia Deol is hardly going to ripple the majority of Sikhs.

      One wishes that Dr Sadhu Singh would remember the meaning behind not only his first name but also that of his surname. Because, otherwise, he is coming across as an unenlightened, baby cub who has got his nose caught in a bramble due to his own shortsightedness.

    15. comrade.. — on 17th January, 2010 at 10:37 pm  

      These Khalistanis cannot talorate any criticisim of Binderwale, I wouldn’t be surprised if Sonia or her family member or property is not attacked. The British born Khalistani thugs do have an underground network. Please don’t ask for any evidence.

      Documentary on the Punjab ‘Caught In The Crossfire.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE1k26NlFyM

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tenYXMzH8&NR=1

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvfbasHpso0&NR=

    16. earlyhigh — on 18th January, 2010 at 6:23 am  

      Hey Comrade,

      you are obviously an indian spy - so why don’t you go and f*ck yourself and your family!
      Khalistan zindabad!

    17. nobodys hero — on 18th January, 2010 at 1:24 pm  

      How is Sonia going to carry on living .Had to cancell the comment icon on her face book. Too many negative comments Fucking people dying in haiti You worried about her facebook account. i thought people had right to a opinion .

    18. nobodys hero — on 18th January, 2010 at 1:29 pm  

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Sonia or her family member or property is not attacked. The British born Khalistani thugs do have an underground network. Please don’t ask for any evidence. The cow jumped over the moon please dont ask for any evidence. The daily mail says bad press not threats.People can we traced on facebook by the police

    19. Dalbir — on 18th January, 2010 at 1:31 pm  

      She probably blew this shit out of proportion for the publicity. Anyone with even half a brain knows certain sections of the media live to demonise migrant communities and will willingly play along to vilify Sikhs.

    20. comrade.. — on 18th January, 2010 at 2:27 pm  

      Hey Comrade,

      you are obviously an indian spy – so why don’t you go and f*ck yourself and your family!
      Khalistan zindabad!

      Earlyhigh, That’s why I know Bhinderwale was on our payroll, and I also Know about the Camps you run, under umbarella organization in the UK. As for your abusiveness, well that’s nothing new, its just shows your true colors, talk about respect for your sisters and mothers. You are not a Sikh but the son of Abdali/Arungjab, because Guru Nanak Dev said ‘why talk bad of those, who have given birth to KIngs, you are a MASAND and if you have read Sikh history then you should know how Guru Gobind Singh awarded them and the same fate waits for you.

      Sunny, can you please remove the post at 16 thank you.

    21. nobodys hero — on 18th January, 2010 at 2:34 pm  

      dancing in the street was inappropriate she was interviewing family victims of genocide. I never seen a documentary about a sensitive subject like the holocaust concentration camp.Half way through the horrific accounts the presenter showing his night out on the beer and bursting out in to a sing song and a dance. Would that not be offensive

    22. nobodys hero — on 18th January, 2010 at 2:39 pm  

      Earlyhigh, That’s why I know Bhinderwale was on our payroll, and I also Know about the Camps you run, under umbarella organization in the UK. As for your abusiveness, well that’s nothing new, its just shows your true colors, talk about respect for your sisters and mothers. You are not a Sikh but the son of Abdali/Arungjab, because Guru Nanak Dev said ‘why talk bad of those, who have given birth to KIngs, you are a MASAND and if you have read Sikh history then you should know how Guru Gobind Singh awarded them and the same fate waits for you.
      Let me know where these camps are,paint balling.
      Marx you be spending your socialist worker paper money on the old handsworths finest herbali

    23. Deep Singh — on 18th January, 2010 at 2:44 pm  

      This just goes to show that problem that the global sikh community face: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Bindranwale has been elevated to a position akin to that of the Gurus, any critique against his character, education, policies or actions is seen by his supporters as an attack on Sikhism itself!

      The result, that a minority pro-Khalistani lobby (yes, there are a very small minority, have a look at voting polls in Punjab itself and one can see this) has managed to emotionally wrangle control over the Sikh masses of all description with this positioning of Sant Bhindranwale.

      The ‘quality’ of language used by most pro-Khalistanis here, on recent radio interviews (about Sonia Deol’s presentation) and also on the Sikh Channel is particularly telling of their inability to distinguish between fact and opinion.

      Any Sikh (or non-Sikh for that matter) who even critiques the slightest aspect of Sant Bhindranwale is immediately accused of being a Government agent, a right wing Hindu RSS / Shiv Sena / Bajrang Dal agent and the equivalent.

      The thorough shame is that the very real human rights abuses that the Government of India has been (and continues to be) responsible for are not being addressed as issues such as Khalistan serve as a great smoke screen.

      End of the day, the Government of India and its large machine will continue dishing out its “Hydrabadi Goli” to all and sundry whilst the likes of Amnesty International are banned from conducting investigations in Punjab and Sikh vocal opinion remains enslaved by the Khalistani minority and their myopic outlook.

    24. Dal — on 18th January, 2010 at 10:06 pm  

      Sonia Deol is dumb, surley they could’ve got someone else to cover the story in a more professional manner. this wasnt about her but it cam across as a look at me me me style programme.

      The BBC is a waste of money

    25. Deep Singh — on 19th January, 2010 at 10:39 am  

      Dal,

      Ad Hominem attacks will get you no where. The BBC producer (Tommy Nagra) and Sonia Deol were both interviewed prior to the airing of the programme and she made it clear that this was not an investigation into the causes of 1984 but a personal journey for her as a NRI / second generation punjabi lady of Sikh descent and what the events of 1984 mean to her and how they have changed her outlook.

      - Deep.

    26. curious? — on 19th January, 2010 at 1:21 pm  

      bollocks was it balanced. the first part was devoted to character assassination of Sant Jarnail Singh, which isn’t surprising given the fact that the producer (mandeep bajwa) is a congress supporter and indian government advisor. tully (interviewed in the program) also has close links with the indian govt and was deliberately handpicked to be a primary contact for western journalists during and after 1984.
      no ones gonna give sikhs justice, after ethnic cleansing of sikhs by the state, the world turned a blind eye and anyone who resisted the oppression is labelled a terrorist/extremist.
      the panth will have to get its own justice and we’ll see that in the next few years.

      khalistan zindabad

    27. sonia — on 19th January, 2010 at 1:57 pm  

      How odd. I watched that documentary and thought it was balanced. Mind you i’m sure there would be plenty of Muslims making a fuss (if you replaced it with a mUslim issue documentary).

      Ignore these people I say, otherwise no one will be able to make such documentaries anymore.

    28. douglas clark — on 19th January, 2010 at 2:01 pm  

      curious?

      Is Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Bindranwale a hero to you?

      I have no particular difficulty with nationalist movements, I am, after all, a member of the SNP, but this guy seems like the worst of rabble rousing heroes to me.

      khalistan zindabad, indeed.

      How many of you are there in the UK? And how many in the Punjab? You remind me of an Irish Pub in New York during the troubles.

    29. Deep Singh — on 19th January, 2010 at 4:50 pm  

      Sonia, I will have to respectfully disagree around the ‘balanced’ notion, as there was a gross lack of information around the events leading up to 1984 that explain, that Mark Tully in his book Amritsar (co-authored with Satish Jacob), concedes to be largely legitimate socio-political grievances that Punjabi Sikhs had against the central state.

      The introduction in the BBC programme, makes no mention of key aspects as the treatment of Punjabis, in particular Sikhs post 1947 or more pertinently aspects such as the Anandpur Sahib resolution, but brings about the sole reason for the rise of Sant Bindranwale as the result of political machinations by Mrs Gandhi’s government, ignoring entirely the ground reality of the everyday Sikh and Punjabi from the period 1947 – 1984.

      For this reason, I will second the view that the BBC programme was hardly objective or an academic / intellectually honest presentation of the facts – that said, Sonia Deol made clear that this programme was not intended to be an investigation into the key players or instigators of the 1984 but rather a journey experienced by Ms Deol in her meeting with those impacted by the events.

      I admire her intent, however it is difficult to undertake such a task and not have to comment upon the causes / background – here I will say, whether intentionally or unintentionally, the programme somewhat shoots itself in the foot and fails to be the ‘balanced’ presentation of facts that no doubt Sonia (Deol) was hoping to achieve.

      I would recommend, for those interested, the following two books:

      1. Cynthia Keppley Mahmood: Fighting for Faith and Freedom – a dialogue with Sikh Militants
      2. Chand Joshi: Bindranwale: Myth and Reality

      Collectively these two books can provide one with a clearer understanding of the role of the Government of India and its agencies and why many everyday individuals felt oppressed under their regime and also a clearer understanding of what Sant Bindranwale really did support when we look beyond the external alms giving and sermons of religiosity, however genuine these acts may certainly have been.

    30. curious? — on 19th January, 2010 at 6:15 pm  

      “Is Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Bindranwale a hero to you?

      I have no particular difficulty with nationalist movements, I am, after all, a member of the SNP, but this guy seems like the worst of rabble rousing heroes to me.”

      Yes he is, people misinterpret alot of things. perhaps try doing your research on sikh history, what it means to be a saint soldier, injustices 1947-1984, the anandpur sahib resolution, the sikh civil rights movement (dharam yudh morcha), sant jee’s jeevan, sikhs and the right to bear arms, and the actual build up to bluestar - then it might seem clearer to you. rather than speculating and assuming

      “khalistan zindabad, indeed.”

      erm yeah, indeed

      “How many of you are there in the UK? And how many in the Punjab?”

      dont worry about how many of us there are

      “You remind me of an Irish Pub in New York during the troubles.”

      thats good

    31. douglas clark — on 19th January, 2010 at 6:28 pm  

      curious?

      Well, you could try answering the questions.

      Apparently there is no credible political party in the Punjab that supports the idea of Khalistan. How do you react to that?

      Apparently there are innumerable Sikhs spread throughout the world that think Khalistan would be tickety boo.

      I am interested in numbers.

      So.

      dont worry about how many of us there are

      doesn’t really cut it.

      Do you have an answer, or not?

    32. Kulvinder — on 19th January, 2010 at 7:16 pm  

      dont worry about how many of us there are

      Ha!

    33. Vikrant — on 20th January, 2010 at 3:03 am  

      ‘Some people are very upset that the documentary also showed Sonia Deol dancing with Hindus as if there is no problem between Hindus and Sikhs.

      Were there ever any problems between Hindus and Sikhs? Hindus and Sikhs do tend to intermarry quite a bit especially in Delhi! But then Khalistanis can’t be blamed for conflating the Indian state with Hindus given the fact that most of them prolly haven’t even been to the country.

    34. Deep Singh — on 20th January, 2010 at 9:57 am  

      “Some people are very upset that the documentary also showed Sonia Deol dancing with Hindus as if there is no problem between Hindus and Sikhs”

      To offer a slightly different angle on this (and for the record, I personally have no issue with anyone dancing with anyone else!), I believe the statement is being taken out of context: Those who indicated that they were ‘upset’ over the dancing issue are venting their frustration that the BBC programme seemed to suggest that because two apparently middle-class Delhi families were dancing in the streets that all is now fine and dandy - something comes across a tad abruptly after talking with the widows who are still suffering.

      In any event, I do not think that this is the big issue at hand, which as above, the real item boils down to the selective presentation of facts in the opening section of the programme.

    35. Deep Singh — on 20th January, 2010 at 9:58 am  

      Kulvinder - good link, it is about time people realised just how small a minority the Khalistanis are amongst the wider Sikh population.

    36. Mangles — on 20th January, 2010 at 11:01 pm  

      #33 Kulvinder and #35 Deep Singh that may be how this story is reported in Indian media in June 2009, however to suggest that the Sikh rights issue is dead and buried or that Khalistan is no longer an issue is a little presumptious given that people are still being arrested in “democratic and free India” for airing any pro-Khalistan views, let alone campaigning for Khalistan. Any surprise then that you get only a few hundered courageous people still willing to come out and mark the anniversary of June 1984 and Operation Bluestar - despite the very real danger that they will be arrested and probably, in the near future, face fabricated charges of sedition or even locked away for years facing trumped up charges of ‘terrorist’ activity?

      So please don’t count the numbers on the streets in Punjab in favour of Khalistan; couny instead how many have been arrested in the past 17-18 years since the struggle apparently ended. That is how a real and active Khalistan and Sikh rights lobby has been silenced by continued abuse of undemocratic laws.

      #34 Good points Deep Singh totally agree that the issue of the dancing has been severely misrepresented. This Sadhu Singh if he is a doctor is clearly unable to articulate an effective argument. The real issue is not about Sikh-Hindu interaction, that has been going on for centuries and will continue, thats why so many Khalistanis were of Hindu heritage, many even fought and died for the cause. The real issue was how false the programme emerged when Sonia jumped from grief for the victims of 1984 anti-Sikh pogroms to dancing and then misrepresenting this one isolated incident with a suggestion that all was hunky dory now.

      I personally expect more from the beeb. Balance? Where? A general who leads the army assault against the Sikhs is given a full length interview and an 18 year old stall holder (born 7 years after the assault by the way) is asked to defend and outline Sikh grievances. That is consistent isn’t it?? Lol

      A location manager is commissioned who is publicly known to be a Congress loyalist, and then Tully a renowned Gandhi sympathiser is interviewed to further demonise Sant Jarnail Singh Ji; and then his lies are inconsistent with porkies he has told previously vis-a vis the story of Sant Ji’s Kirpan; in earlier interviews he has ascribed the menacing look to General Shubheg Singh - this time its Sant Ji. Tut tut Tully you flipping liar.

      What a totally unprofessional and shambolic mess!

      Facebook. Oh my days poor Sonia. Sonia set up her Facebook to bask in the glory of the documentary and quite clearly when the going got tough she had to get out of the spotlight. If she wants the glory she has to accept the criticism and defend her and her teams actions. She quite clearly cant defend her actions and is now resorting to self-inflicted martyrdom by suggesting that she has had to take her Facebook page down cos the row escalted. Some idiots want to read intimidation into that. Real intimidation is when the Indian joeys continually want to try to lable anything that is to do with Sikh rights and Khalistan as militancy or extremist. Now that sharade has been played out for 3 decades, gosh we Khalistanis must be really thick skinned to take the initimidation and unbalanced reporting that has been conjured up for so long. Poor Sonia, these journalists should come together and let her cry on their shoulders, ahh my heart bleeds.

      Mesaage to Sonia: Get over it dear, A for effort D for achievement; must try harder in future.

      Tommy Nagra - on Sikh Channel you said Sikhs should get over 1984. I’d like to see anyone from the Beeb try that line with the Jews and the holocaust, Afro-Caribbean community and slavery or Americans and 9/11. They know they would not have a job to go back to. How can this geezer get away with it for 1984?

      Rab rakha!

    37. Deep Singh — on 21st January, 2010 at 12:35 pm  

      Mangles,

      I do not believe I have suggested anywhere that (a) the Sikh rights issue is dead and buried or (b) that India now permits freedom of speech when it comes to anyone airing any pro-Khalistan views – in fact quite to the contrary. I am and remain very critical of “democratic and free India” as the Human Rights abuses undertaken by the Government of India and its agencies, in particular the Indian police are a serious and ongoing issue - even a cursory search of academic research papers online will show the severity of the issue across India.

      That being said, your argument around “(is it) any surprise then that you get only a few hundred courageous people still willing to come out and mark the anniversary of June 1984 and Operation Bluestar…” works both ways. As hard as this will be to stomach, the militant presence of Sant Ji and his followers in Punjab during the 1980s and thereafter the activities of the Babbar Khalsa Internatioanl (BKI – a banned terrorist group), whilst being touted as a legitimate practice of the Sant-Sipahi (Saint Soldier) Khalsa ideals also had the effect of coercing several parts of the Punjabi population (Sikh and non-Sikh) to side with the “movement”, adopt outward Khalsa insignia and partake in the Khalsa initiation rites – all of these commonly attributed solely to Sant Ji’s magnetic personality and preaching efforts by pro-Khalistanis and rarely any mention or heed is paid to the ground level impact of why several people felt the need to abide by the wishes of Sant Ji when confronted by his men armed with rifles and automatic weapons.

      What appears to have been missed by all comments thus far is the statement from Sonia Deol during her time in Punjab, she could see that Sant Ji remains an iconic figure in the popular Punjabi mindset to this day with several posters, stickers, key rings and other trinkets selling like hot cakes on a daily basis, however she did meet several Sikhs who did not support him but they were “not willing to state as much on camera” – this is particularly telling and hence my opening position that we as a community has positioned Sant Ji on par with the Gurus such that any critique of Sant Bindranwale is equated to an attack on Sikhi itself – this is an internal matter for the Sikh community to resolve, however as I keep saying the wider issue is one of Human Rights abuses in Punjab (and elsewhere in India) which need to tackled, addressed and never forgotten.

      With regard to the academic and intellectual honesty of the presentation, I have made my view known in the previous post, however let us not muddy the waters. The interview with General Brar was appropriate and the probing questions on part of Sonia, albeit a tad emotional at times (understandably given the overriding theme of her presentation), were well made. Incidentally however, the allegation he makes about the six attempts on his life and the living under 24-7 security was misrepresented by K S Brar – these alleged attempts on his life are fairly recent events and more importantly so too is he security. It is well known by those living in Punjab that K S Brar was walking freely about town without any security protection for several years post-Blue Star whilst Khalistanis were busy killing off people like General Vaidya.

      The interview with the young 18 year old stall holder in no way asked him to “defend and outline Sikh grievances”, he was questioned about his support for Sant Ji and Sonia Deol’s line of questioning was fine in this regard, it is no different to going to Cuba and having a similar discussion with an 18 year old support of Che Guvera, who has been similarly idolised and become a iconic figure in popular imagination, but remains subject to vastly divided opinion as whether or not he was a freedom fighter, militant or terrorist. That said, I would agree that what was missing was an interview with a Punjabi everyman who was impacted by the pre 1984 policies from the central government in Punjab to highlight why matters such as the Anandpur Sahib resolution were so critical in explaining the background to the genuine socio-economic grievances that exist in Punjab from the period 1947 – 1984 (however, Sonia Deol and Tommy Nagra have already made clear that this was not an investigation into the events and its political causes – i.e. we are going to go around and around on this front with no real solution, again diverting attention from the real issue of human rights abuses).

      Whatever Mark Tully’s ties to the Gandhi administration maybe, given his crucial media role in reporting the events of the 1980s is reason enough for Sonia Deol to want to speak with him as part of her journey. As with any presentation, the reliability of personal statements will always need to be considered in light of the individual’s position and bias – again this is not any fault on part of Sonia Deol wanting to approach who she saw as the key players / observers of the events, all she is doing is soliciting their opinions.

      I believe Tommy Nagra’s comments on Sikh Channel were to the effect that from their experience in India whilst filming the BBC programme suggesting that Sikhs “had moved on from 1984 not that “Sikhs should get over 1984”. Whilst we can debate the extent to which their experience represents the entire picture, let’s not construct straw man arguments if one desires what legitimate concerns one may have to be taken seriously.

      Gur Fateh!

    38. persephone — on 22nd January, 2010 at 11:25 am  

      “The real issue was how false the programme emerged when Sonia jumped from grief for the victims of 1984 anti-Sikh pogroms to dancing and then misrepresenting this one isolated incident with a suggestion that all was hunky dory now”

      Its amazing - all the hyperbole about Sonia dancing in a documentary that was essentially a personal account. And seeing as her life is not all about 1984 then why turn a non issue into an unrealistic expectation?

      It appears that there is an expectation that Sikhs should spend their whole life thinking about 1984 & should not dance, attend weddings, drink, watch soaps and (ahem) be commenting on blogs …

      And perhaps in Sonia’s life all is “hunky dory” now. If she has good relations with Hindus surely it is a positive thing to depict the reality. In fact, it does credit in that, despite all that has happened, people have picked up the pieces and moved forward positively.

      Sikhs are getting on with their lives post 1984 and to say otherwise would be the misrepresentation.

    39. Jai — on 22nd January, 2010 at 12:01 pm  

      One point re: Sonia and “dancing with Hindus”.

      If Sonia had been dancing with the people directly responsible for the attack on the Golden Temple then it would have been a different matter. However, that was not the case, and complaining about it due to notions of “the collective guilt of Hindus” is about as far from Sikh teachings & ideals on the subject as you can get.

      The word “Khalistan” is derived from “Khalsa”. There are certain ideals and principles associated with the latter. It’s worth remembering this, before anyone thinks it’s appropriate to point fingers at Sonia for making it clear that she harbours no ill-will towards ordinary Hindus who don’t harbour any ill-will towards Sikhs.

      Otherwise, if you’re going to go down that road, you may as well also start criticising Guru Gobind Singh for having friendly relations with numerous ordinary Muslims and even providing military assistance to Bahadur Shah I during the war of succession after Aurangzeb’s death, considering the multiple tragedies which the Guru had personally suffered at the hands of some Muslims with a grudge against Sikhs. I’m sure we’d all agree that criticising the Guru’s attitude in this matter would not be the correct stance to take.

    40. Nita Singh — on 3rd February, 2010 at 3:57 am  

      Sant Bindranwale words were more powerful then the AK rife .
      Thaz why the hindu nation ,that’s right, its a hindu nation by population and bollywood ha ha. (It hurts to hear the truth), had Bindranwale and his movement exterminated. Bindranwale attracted more sikhs to his movement then the so called liberal minded sikhs. I honestly don’t known how sikhs define leadership ?

    41. Nita Singh — on 3rd February, 2010 at 4:01 am  

      Sant Bindranwale words were more powerful then the AK rife .
      Thaz why the hindu nation ,that’s right, its a hindu nation by population and bollywood ha ha. (It hurts to hear the truth), had Bindranwale and his movement exterminated. Bindranwale attracted more sikhs to his movement then the so called liberal minded sikhs. I honestly don’t known how sikhs define leadership ?

    42. Deep Singh — on 3rd February, 2010 at 9:36 am  

      Nita Singh wrote:

      “Sant Bindranwale words were more powerful then the AK rife”

      Not sure what a “rife” is or the quantification of its power, but I think every agrees that Sant Ji was a prolific speaker particularly for those of a rustic rural origin, hence his popularity with those sharing his bucolic background and his singling out by the Congress administration to weaken the grip of the Akalis in Punjab.

      “Thaz why the hindu nation ,that’s right, its a hindu nation by population and bollywood ha ha. (It hurts to hear the truth), had Bindranwale and his movement exterminated”

      Bollywood exterminated Sant Ji? Are you sure about this? From what I recall, it was the military under the command of one General Brar (an individual from the same Jatt clan as Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Brar, Bhindranwale) who oversaw and undertook the task of launching the attack on Sant Ji within the Harimandir Sahib complex.

      Moreover, that was not the only time Sant Ji was under fire (in the literal sense of the phrase), the Babbar Khalsa under the command of Bhai Sukhdev Singh Sukha also traded bullets with Sant Ji – something conveniently played out by pro-Khalistanis today in a bid to keep ‘ekta’ (unity) amongst their dwindling ranks. The very origins of the Babbar Khalsa lie in a rift between the Damdami Taksal and the Akhand Kirtani Jatha, whatever revisionist rhetoric Khalistanis may choose to epouse today.

      “Bindranwale attracted more sikhs to his movement then the so called liberal minded Sikhs”

      When everyday families, be they ‘clean-shaven’ Patit Sikhs, Keshdharis or Amritdharis, are confronted with AK47 rifle bearing men in blue and saffron turbans who appear above the law, it is hardly surprising that the latter’s directive is obeyed.

    43. Nita Singh — on 3rd February, 2010 at 6:17 pm  

      My bad, I meant “Rifle” not “rife”, I think its called typing errors,ha ha ha , no need of you to show off. As of using bollywood in my email , its meant sarcastically. (Mr. Deep Singh, some friendly advice, check your grammatical, errors too). So lets not nitpick spelling or grammer. Its a sign of a persons insecurity.

      As for leadership.

      I’ll go with sikh leaders like Bindranwale and hollywood, you can go with the Gandhi’s and bollywood ha ha . Its all good , we live in a western society, instead of the middle east were the head gets cut off or india, where I might get charged for disturbing the peace between Hindus and sikhs and spend 25 years in the jail before my trial. I prefer the british rule of today over the hindu rule in India after all, most east Indians including sikhs want to head to England for a better education and better life style. I think its called Western Democracy. Take care my sikh brother.

    44. Kulvinder — on 3rd February, 2010 at 7:52 pm  

      Sant Bindranwale words were more powerful then the AK rife

      Must have come as a shock when he was shot by one then. What did he do, shout at the bullets?

    45. nita singh — on 3rd February, 2010 at 8:43 pm  

      Kulvinder wrote: Must have come as a shock when he was shot by one then. What did he do, shout at the bullets?

      Those same bullets made in india (hindustan), “indira gandhi” must have seen . What goes around ,comes around. What a wonderful world we live in. I have to admit, sikhs were faithful to the british Raj when they were ruling india , and now to the Hindu Raj. (Some thing to think about after 12 O clock) Take care !

    46. Kalistian singh — on 3rd February, 2010 at 9:18 pm  

      Liberal sikhs are not shocked when someone says “Hindustan” but are profoundly shocked when someone says “Kalistan”. These same sikh liberals think O.J. is actually innocent, but that Bindranwale is not.
      Q:what is faster than the speed of light?
      A: A pro-indian sikh carrying a Indias flag with a British passport !
      Nita singh, you cool with one liners ha ha.
      These pro indian sikhs need to were the hindu diapers instead of a turban and go back to India, to their beloved country India.

    47. Kulvinder — on 3rd February, 2010 at 10:01 pm  

      Liberal sikhs are not shocked when someone says “Hindustan” but are profoundly shocked when someone says “Kalistan”

      Khalistan

      Khal

      not Kalistan; and its Bhindranwale not bindranwale.

      Ah ke bakwaas boldah? Punjabi sumaj andhi?

      Once or twice is obviously understandable, but you’re either a profound idiot who can’t even spell; or a troll who didn’t actually learn the spelling of punjabi words before writing them.

      And im guessing its not even worth checking whether the ips of ‘nita singh’ and ‘kalistan singh’ are the same. Everytime you write ‘kalistan’ you’re effectively mentioning this.

    48. salt&pepper — on 4th February, 2010 at 4:32 am  

      All of you are debating the subject on emotions only.The real fact of the matter is all sikhs in India are well respected and trusted.I have lived through those times and experienced it.The papular phrase that
      “You live by the sword,you die by the sword” applies all the times.Trade and commerece is future war and not petty political gains.

    49. nita singh — on 4th February, 2010 at 5:19 am  

      Kulvinder, you been taking your medical pills from india ? Bro, you got to go to a hindu temple and start praying to rats, monkeys or start dancing to the hara ram , hara Krishan music. You losing it bro. You got to relax. Calling people idiots , thats crazzzzzzy.
      Hey bro, is it:
      kalistian or is it spelled sikhistian, oh is your name spelled Kulvinder-shit-head oops, I’m a bad speller and a profound idiot.
      Kulvshithead I’m sorry , got my education from India.
      Hey Kulvinshithead , forgive me for my lack of hindushit.
      Q: How do you play Hindu bingo?
      A: B-52…F-16…B-1…
      Q: What’s the difference between the india’s democracy and a bucket of shit?
      A: the bucket
      Hey Kulinshithead , sorry for all spelling errors,
      Bro thaz not important, I’m worried about your blood presure. you got to take your blood presure pills made in the USA, oky, promise me. I’ll try to spell better, Kalsitian Kalistin kalistian , bindranwale the sant or bindranwale the king or is it Bindranwale the sikh hero, oh I give up. You the man Kukinshithead.
      I got to go back to india to learn about Inia or is it india. You got to correct this email. Damn I just had some water bottle from india. Kulinshit, I’ll let you be the king of this blog. Got to run with my Kalistian brothers, bollywood style . Take care, I like Kukinshithead, I’ll be more than happy to show you my hockey stick made in india ha ha ! You funny and cool.

    50. Deep Singh — on 4th February, 2010 at 9:18 am  

      Nita Singh:

      “I’ll go with sikh leaders like Bindranwale and hollywood, you can go with the Gandhi’s and bollywood ha ha”

      If only the world was as black and white as that! There seems to be an inherent problem with Khalistani Sikhs that anyone who does not back them 100% is automatically labelled a Gandhi and Bollywood supporter (at best, otherwise accused of being a RSS and/or Congress Agent or Christian Missionary).

      For the record, I am not a fan of bollywood (I find the entire industry to be an intellectual and cultural insult) nor am I a supporter of any Gandhi legacy (particularly given their comments and attitudes towards Sikhs).

      “Its all good , we live in a western society, instead of the middle east were the head gets cut off or india, where I might get charged for disturbing the peace between Hindus and sikhs and spend 25 years in the jail before my trial”

      Please see my comments and several others by Parvinder and Jai on this website about the matter of Human Rights abuses in India and need to address this pro-actively.

      “I prefer the british rule of today over the hindu rule in India after all, most east Indians including sikhs want to head to England for a better education and better life style. I think its called Western Democracy. Take care my sikh brother”

      I don’t see the relevance of this statement (or any of your supposed rebuttals), all you are creating is one strawman argument after another.

    51. Deep Singh — on 4th February, 2010 at 9:26 am  

      Kulvinder, there are many references one can find in Gurbani (with the Sri Guru Granth Sahib as well as the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib) warning people to avoid engaging in arguments with fools.

      Nita Singh and ‘Kalistan’ Singh have shown their true culture in the way they present their arguments, neither of them can resist from strawman fallacies or unfounded ad hominem attacks.

      I hope for those Sikhs who sincerely supported Bhindranwale that the standards of debate and intellectual honesty presented here by Nita Singh and Kalistan Singh are not representative of all Khalistanis - otherwise we may find more individuals like the hot headed chap on the Sikh Channel who was complaining about Khalistanis being made to look stupid on a radio discussion.

    52. Kulvinder — on 4th February, 2010 at 10:06 am  

      @DS

      I doubt he is a ‘genuine’ Khalistan supporter - or even a sikh; i may disagree with them but at least they know how to spell the name of the place they advocate.

      Its someone who wants to troll.

    53. Nita Singh — on 4th February, 2010 at 5:43 pm  

      Deep Singh, I do give you props for trying to sound like an intellectual . Keep up the good work on this blog, got to run to the next Hindu temple. We got a field hockey game Sikhs Vs Hindus . I might join the Hindu team , they can run faster ha ha.

    54. Nita Singh — on 4th February, 2010 at 10:07 pm  

      Holy cow, old news, Sikhs install the portrait of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrwanwale in the Sikh Museum in Sri Darbar Sahib, Amritsar.
      Damn Damn Damn, How dare we sikhs admire such thugs. Its only a minority of lunatic sikhs who look up to Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrwanwale, thaz all we hear from pro-india sikhs.
      Woo, spooky, they got his portrait in the most holy sikh worship place in India. Damn, send in the Tanks,the military, his portrait is a threat to Hindustan national security and the RSS ha ha ha. This is the work of the CIA, China or Pakistian, cause the sikhs in India are innocent and pro-India. ha ha ha.

    55. Deep Singh — on 5th February, 2010 at 1:14 pm  

      I presume these are the witty ‘one-liners’ that your comrade ‘Kalistan’ Singh was admiring.

      Nita Ji, you are simply proving my point, when faced with a reasoned argument / point of view you are unable to address, you feel the need to either go ad hominem or construct strawmen arguments, still giving you the benefit of doubt, now that you’ve had you dose of fun and games, let’s try to share some thoughts.

      You made reference earlier to the freedom of speech you benefit from by living “in a western society, instead of the middle east were the head gets cut off or india, where I might get charged for disturbing the peace between Hindus and sikhs and spend 25 years in the jail before my trial”.

      I wholly concur that freedom of speech is indeed a crucial concept and one that is permitted today (for the most part) to those who reside in secular countries, in view of which, I would like to ask you and ‘Kalistan’ Singh the following:

      According to Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, the concept of Miri Piri “emphasises the theological separateness of Sikhs and thereby their political separateness” (see Joyce Pettigrew, In Search of the New Kingdom of Lahore).

      This same paper highlights the origins of what many claim set the scene for events leading up to 1984 and demands for autonomy – the Partition of 1947, where Sikhs being cut off from their cultural neighbours (the Punjabi Muslims of West Punjab) became part of a new independent India in which they were seen as part of the wider Hindu tradition in a new country which nonetheless “espoused secularism and… saw religion as backward – as a force a modern mind would not acknowledge” a view which was viewed cautiously by the Sikh elite at the time but later came to embody much of Sant Ji’s speeches, in which he would frequently challenge those Sikhs employed by the State and in particular those with significant business interests outside the Punjab as having lifestyles incompatible with that of the Panth.

      Ultimately Sant Ji felt secularism was a notion alien to the Sikh Miri Piri tradition as he understood it.

      Question (1) In your view, how do you reconcile the notion, and more importantly, practice of the Miri-Piri tradition (as espoused by Sant Ji and several Khalistani ideologues) with your life in a secular country?

      The concept of the Panth (or ‘community’) is not a “spatial entity” unlike Judaism, where there is an established relationship between land, people and territory, the Panth on the other hand is the collective of those who believe in the Sikh faith and is more cosmopolitan / universal in its scope.

      Question (2): Since there is no underlying case to support notions of ‘peoplehood’ or ‘nationality’ for the Sikh Panth, theologically or otherwise, how do you validate your claims over Punjab or support for what ultimately is the nationalistic Khalistani movement?

    56. nita singh — on 5th February, 2010 at 10:26 pm  

      Deep Ji, you thinking to deep , you smoking weed, like them Nihangs ha ha. Deep ji your questions are valid, and my family too thinks, that the notion of Khalistani is based on illogical math and raw emotion. As to your questions, I’ll shoot them latter. Deep ji, what is your education background if you don’t mind answering the question -> Remember they is no gun pointing at your head, to answer ha ha ha. Take care, Mr journalist and if I don’t answer your question, It means I don’t have an answer to your journalistic questions and can’t rebuttal, your statements on this blog. I’ll bring down my Khalistani flag an up man ship the indian flag. Deep ji, your blogs are very educational.

    57. Nita Singh — on 6th February, 2010 at 5:03 am  

      check this out:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM0UnJkjA48&NR=1

    58. Deep Singh — on 11th February, 2010 at 11:00 am  

      Forum members,

      Clearly as the discussion with Nita Singh demonstrates, the Khalistanis here, when not erecting strawmen to knock down or going ad hominem on others who challenge their views, seem to do very little else!

    59. Nita Singh — on 12th February, 2010 at 3:03 am  

      Deep singh you got to change your vocabulary cuz, you killing me with your memorized words of strawmen oops I think its “straw men” and that scary word
      ad hominem ha ha ha.
      Deep ji, my man, you shooting them words to death, relax cuz, “Yes”, you want to sound educated, and I’ll give you “A+” on your report card. I love you pro-hindustanis.
      I hope you don’t use them 2 words with the india accent, cause bro, that would be terrorism ha ha ! Take care strawmen and lay off the “ad hominem”.
      ha ha. You too cool , I could drink a few beers with you , and learn from an expert like you on Khalistanis !

    60. Deep Singh — on 12th February, 2010 at 10:45 am  

      Nita Ji, please continue with your ghetto english, you are doing a fine job in proving me right!

    61. Lion — on 15th February, 2010 at 2:00 am  

      I would like to clarify to you guys not even guru nanak dev ji was hindu, just like no one is born a doctor or enginer, no one is born hindu muslim or sikh its his deeds and his beliefs makes him/her a part of a religion therefore Guru Nanak Dev ji was not a hindu

    62. Lion — on 15th February, 2010 at 2:14 am  

      Singh means tiger 1st, lions werent as common in india at the time of the guru
      .1. In guru gobinds first battle (bhangani) he was deserted by almost everyone, but the loyal muslim Pir Budhu Shah stook by him, and Budhu’s sons died fighting for the guru (also muslims).

      2. When guruji escaped from Chamkaur, the man who nurtured him and gave him shelter in a nearby forrest was Ghani Khan, a muslim who was Gurujis long time friend.
      Oh Nita ji check this out
      Indira Gandhi’s killers honoured in New Zealand Sikh temple
      http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/indians-abroad/Indira-Gandhis-killers-honoured-in-New-Zealand-Sikh-temple/articleshow/5567702.cms

    63. Lion — on 21st February, 2010 at 4:21 am  

      True or false ?
      Kashmiri Pandits came down to ask for help from Guru Teg Bhadur Ji as they found not even ONE hindu capable of saving them.

      They made promises that if Guru Ji saved them they will convert to to Sikhism did they convert?

    64. Indian resident — on 2nd March, 2010 at 8:23 pm  

      A very un-balanced documentry.

      If many people could understand Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale’s speaches… (Including Sonia Deol) She would understand the pain and torture the sikhs went through prior to the attack on the golden temple.

      Operation bluestar was a segment of the attack on the sikhs… operation woodrose was another attack on sikh citizens that took place after operation bluestar. Why were sikhs attacked AGAIN after operation bluestar? If bhindranwale was the main person of the problem… why would the Indian Government continue to attack the sikh nation with another operation called operation woodrose? Why we’re telephone lines disconnected across India during 1984? Why wasnt the outside media allowed to enter India to obtain information?

      Ask yourselves these questions.

      Clearly this was an attack on the sikh nation.. a minority… and it was NOT to kill one individual.

      May god bring peace upon the sikhs and may every family who suffered in the hands of Indra Gandhi’s government recieve justice.

    65. me — on 2nd March, 2010 at 9:54 pm  

      There’s a timely talk on the more recent genocide of another of India’s minorities , the Muslims of Gujurat in 2002

      Title: “We have no orders to save you”: Remembering Gujarat
      Speaker: Syed Haider
      Date and time: 12th March 2010 6.45-8.30pm
      Venue: 45 Abrar House, Crawford Place, London W1h 4LP (nearest tube is Edgware Road)

      This talk looks to locate what happened in Gujarat in 2002 within the broader narrative of terrorism. The talk will suggest that by doing this one can challenge the present discourse on terrorism and its narrow focus on individuals, peripheral organisations and rogue states to dispel what Pilger has identified as the taboo about ever linking democracies to terrorism. What is more, the speaker will identify culture as the all pervasive matrix through which a resistance can be mounted to this type of madness occurring again.

      Syed Haider is an English teacher at Vyners High School in Uxbridge and is currently pursuing a PhD on Muslim Modernities in Indian Cultural Production at the School of Oriental and African Studies. He is the founder of Khayal.org.uk a web-based forum interested in studying the sociology of social change.

      All welcome. Free Entrance and no need to pre book. For further information contact Rabia at rabia.malik.cc@gmail.com or 07733932134

      —————-
      Human Rights Watch

      ‘We Have No Orders To Save You’

      State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat

      APRIL 30, 2002
      State officials of Gujarat, India were directly involved in the killings of hundreds of Muslims since February 27 and are now engineering a massive cover-up of the state’s role in the violence, Human Rights Watch charged in a new report released today. The Indian parliament is scheduled today to debate the situation in Gujarat, and may vote to censure the Indian government for its handling of the violence. The police were directly implicated in nearly all the attacks against Muslims that are documented in the 75-page report, ‘We Have No Orders to Save You’: State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat. In some cases they were merely passive observers. But in many instances, police officials led the charge of murderous mobs, aiming and firing at Muslims who got in the way. Under the guise of offering assistance, some police officers led the victims directly into the hands of their killers. Panicked phone calls made to the police, fire brigades, and even ambulance services generally proved futile. Several witnesses reported being told by police: “We have no orders to save you.”

      http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2002/04/30/we-have-no-orders-save-you

    66. Raj.b — on 4th March, 2010 at 11:38 am  

      To sunny :As a bahman hindu. I thought the program was pretty gud. Bindrawale however was portrayed in the correct way. What else were u going to portray him as? Mahatma bindrawale “ahimsa”. And its funny that the dal khalsa thought he lukd like binladen. Even i thought that. Because of his evil look and the ak47. The documentary was pro khalistani. It never showed the hindu victims of 1980s. Sunny i recommend u go to http://www.punjabtrauma.org its a site teling us of the khalistanin rampage across punjab. Whats more, The blog was done by a sikh. I think u should complain to utube (as u are a well knwn sikh figure) about the brainwashing khalistan vids. Furthermore i like many other hindu punjabis pay homage to all 10gurus i even listen to shabads and chaupai sahib. So how can khalistanis say we are anti sikh? 1 criticism 4 sikh channel. They had a discussion abt khalistan a so called argument. But it was 1 sided sukhi bart had a group of youth. Who wer al in favour of khalistan. Hmm is that a argument? Then they had srai the khalistani spokesman. Each time he talkd abt riots of 84 he went onto the jews and at 1 point he was told in polite words by sukhi to shut up and and get to the point. And the worst thing is, the youths are bein emotionaly black mailed. Mst sikhs i knw arent pro khalistani. And all of them are jatt except my indian born amritdhari mates. Who stil isnt a khalistani. So why is the british govt alowing them to glorify b.khalsa and btf? Anger and lust are wounds to the soul. Sggs and when other means fail its righteous to raise the sword. 10th master of sikh dharam. Im writing those quotes because the khalistanis manipulate them to justify terrorism. So my question to the khalistinians is : what have u gained by demanding kstan? Was it worth 84 riots? And how can u justify air india 182?

    67. Singh — on 11th March, 2010 at 7:02 am  

      Raj.B said: “As a bahman hindu. I thought the program was pretty gud”
      As a sikh I say: “the program sucks”. Raj.B what is a bahman and a gud ?

      I think the indian army should go into bombay like they went into the “Gold temple” instad of guns and tanks , cause “Hindus” can’t fight ,a cricket bat, will do, wonders on the heads of those fanatic hindu party called “RSS”. Ha ha ha.

      Hindus do no wrong, they just grap innocent sikhs (84 riots) burn them a alive , rape our women and their so called thug police, just stand their like idiots,lacking any man-hood,just watching ,innocent sikh getting cold blooded murdered on the streets.

      Hey Retard Raj.b, shave your fucking head, and wear them hindu diapers , and go, do a head stand ,retard ! Get some blood flow in your brain cells and I’m saying it kindly without my hockey stick.

    68. douglas clark — on 11th March, 2010 at 7:30 am  

      Singh,

      Fuck off you aggressive tit.

      Raj.b is, probably, about seven years old…

      Or just another justifier of self centred violence. There isn’t much difference… much like yourself, if truth be told….

      Give it up, you moron.

    69. Nita.Singh — on 12th March, 2010 at 3:17 am  

      Hey
      Douglas clark what retarded tree did you fall off from ha ha. Check the mirror , U are not a “Douglas”, U a hindu, hiding in a western name. Come on Mr. Hindu, be proud of your ethnicity. We will still love you ha ha.

      Mr. Hindu (Douglas) be nice to your sikh brothers, cause you might get your diapers pulled off by them muslims.who you going to call ? —-> A Muslimbuster ha ha ha thats right a sikh to your rescue ha ha.

      Take care , smoke some weed ,Douglas, it might jump start your brain cells ha ha ha.

    70. raj.b — on 15th March, 2010 at 3:39 pm  

      Ur ability to read me retard douglas astonishes me. Sorry for the use of that politically incorrect word. I was not justifying violence. 1984 riots were terrible infact. I have sikh relatives living in canada who tell me of this story. yes a hindu can have sikh relatives. Im not a stupid rss agent like you childish “khalistaninain” sikhs say. But khalistanis killed hindus thats what the documentary didn’t show and the fact that everyday there was a bomb blast in punjab. go to http://www.punjabtrauma.org done by a sikh. narrating the turbulent years during militancy in punjab. Bhindrawala was not a saint, this was highlighted by longowal when he quoted bundrawala saying to “kill members of a certain community”with bikes and “ak47 wales”. It is evident that you are another e-khalistan soldier who makes up multiple user names and says they are true sikhs online lol.

      Nita singh, i suggest you go back to reading the Guru Granth Sahib again as once again, you have proven yourself not worthy of the title “singh”

    71. Nita.Singh — on 15th March, 2010 at 10:08 pm  

      Raj.B u been doing your head stands. Bro, its good for your brains,according to your yogis . My hara rama buddy, don’t worry about being politically incorrect, retards like you,are found all over India praying to Rats , bollywood stars, cows and rocks. Thaz all good I still love the Indian accent in english , its cool.
      OH
      The indian justice system is great, they just forgot to arrest individuals in the 1984 riots cause its hard to get a clear description of them, just because

      they were carrying car tires , gassoline,spears, sticks, knives and carrying fire matches singing how great india is , while burning innocent sikhs, does not mean they are quilty ha ha. Come on Raj the retard, wake up.
      Bro, lay off , the medicine and stop reading hindu newspapers, you might surprice your IQ.

      I still love my retards , I think its called : Being mentally challenged. You Raj definitely need to challenge your brain , its never to late. Take care !

    72. Nita.Singh — on 15th March, 2010 at 10:10 pm  

      Raj.B u been doing your head stands. Bro, its good for your brains,according to your yogis . My hara rama buddy, don’t worry about being politically incorrect, retards like you,are found all over India praying to Rats , bollywood stars, cows and rocks. Thaz all good I still love the Indian accent in english , its cool.
      OH lets look at the indian justice system, it’s great, they just forgot to arrest individuals in the 1984 riots cause its hard to get a clear description of them, just because
      they were carrying car tires , gassoline,spears, sticks, knives and carrying fire matches singing how great india is , while burning innocent sikhs, does not mean they are quilty ha ha. Come on Raj the retard, wake up.
      Bro, lay off , the medicine and stop reading hindu newspapers, you might surprice your IQ.
      I still love my retards , I think its called : Being mentally challenged. You Raj definitely need to challenge your brain , its never to late. Take care !

    73. raj — on 25th March, 2010 at 2:30 pm  

      Lol what ever. yeah id rather pray to a fkin rat than a fkin ak47 u bloody lund. bhenchod. its funny, each time you write a comment u prove ur a total jack ass or idiot or in your term “kafir”. Ur turning the khalsa into the khaliban lol. when will you learn sikhs have lost more than gained from demanding this stupid idea of khalistan. If hinduism is so stupid, why does ur pakandi sant bhindrawala do darshan of the Dasam Granth??? I have read parts, chaubis avtar, chaupai sahib, and chandi di varr. All in bow to hindu incarnations. Ur the reason why bollywood used to laugh at sikhs cos u always make a fool of urself. Look at you i bet if a sikh was arrested in india you say “its an rss conspiracy the bastard hindus are behind this” grow up u paranoid fudu. Obviously keyboard sant sipahi ur highly dumb to use hindus as a scape goat for everything. U fkin chura. Ur stupid councilor of khalistan or (empty land) srai cant even answer a question and give a strait answer this was proven on khalistan oh sorry sikh channel when sukhi bhart asked him ” what about the different castes and groups in this khalistan say if they want a country for themselves” he said “let me go back to the jews let me go back to my mommy crying that i am an absolute idiot” . Ur a failure of a sikh. if sikhs cant agree over the Dasam granth yet, how the fck are u going to agree over the border of khalistan??? Another thing is, no matter where you go there is corruption “sant” dhadrianwale is a prime example my keypord sant.

      Torah akall sikhla bhenchod. go back to school oh yeah i have to speak in hindi cos im an rss agent according to you. sabak sikhla bhaijaan aap kuch nai sumagda sala bund marr.

    74. Nita.Singh — on 17th May, 2010 at 5:12 am  

      Raj B , you were born retarded, its not your fault.
      You need to get some help for your anger, a good
      strong, made in india, hockey stick to your head from a sikh will do the trick. If that doesn’t work, I’ll pray for you, bro cause I’m a good khalistan sikh, I hope you all the best in your next reincarnation you will be a Khalistan sikh , that means, your IQ goes up. Raj, relax bro,You scarying me with your emails, you remind of a Ape who just found a banana tree, you going all Ape on me and I like monkeys.

      Raj. breath retard , breath in from your ears and out of your ass. You are a good hindu, they is still hope for you hindu retards, start by mediating on Bindranwale name,u might see the light lol. Raj you stay cool, get your self a nice cool Canadian beer and drinking it, not eat it Okay, my bro. You are the Hindu kingkong of all hindu Retards and you should be proud of that title. Take care , I love you bro , see no anger , its easy. Say I love khalistan, I know you can do it. Good boy, you can now get a dog biscuit from the nearest hindu temple. Take care ! Peace

    Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

    Pickled Politics © Copyright 2005 - 2010. All rights reserved. Terms and conditions.
    With the help of PHP and Wordpress.