I (still) see no reason for anyone to worry about them, except Muslims who go to their meetings to criticize. I certainly see no reason for national newspapers to misrepresent what they say this march is about.

What is wrong with the idea of a memorial to the unnecessary Iraqi war dead? If people have accepted that this was was based on false information it is only right that its victims should be remembered.

Islam4UK and their ilk are fanatics of a particular type (Muslims). The BNP and their ilk are fanatics of a particular type (whites). I’m sorry I didn’t make that clearer.

In your statement above, I have substituted Muslims for BNP which would then read as follows:
If only BNP members you encounter are fanatics on TV, you are more likely to take a dim view of BNP.

“………….I wouldn’t want the only white people on TV to be from the BNP and EDL, as that would make people more prejudiced………..”

Your statement makes no sense.

And I wouldn’t want the only white/black/ brown people on TV to be Muslims, as that would make people more prejudiced

And I wouldn’t want the only white/black/brown people on TV to be Christians, as that would make people more prejudiced

And I wouldn’t want the only white/black/brown people on TV to be Communists, as that would make people more prejudiced

And I wouldn’t want the only white/black/brown people on TV to be from the BNP and EDL, as that would make people more prejudiced.

Most appropriate place would be Iraq and I am sure gov of Iraq will honour its war dead.

Quite so, but not always the right to expression at the time and place of their choosing.

In the US there is apparently no legal way to prevent the Westboro Baptist Church showing up at funerals and exulting that the deceased is in hell, whether for serving in the military or for being gay. They were denied entry to the UK when they wanted to do something similar here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSIVlZjhlGM&feature=related

Good post. I woke up to hear this news and was so pleased – not because i know what this Muslim network stands for but more because the counter-demo wasn’t proposed by the BNP. That was my worst fear – that Anjen Choudary’s move would’ve given the BNP the space to champion all things British – and for the BNP to claim that institution of the army and ‘our boys’ out there, are defended by the BNP while the liberal circles let down Britain in fear of multiculturalism. You can see where this is leading.

Difficult as it is to accept, even vile groups have the right to expression, as you say. A couple of my friends mentioned this very fact yesterday, pointing to the fact that many of the articles in the Guardian didn’t have the courage to speak this truth. I don’t know if i have the courage, either. Sometimes silence is a better response.

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My own armchair-psychology theory about the reasons behind Anjem Choudary’s ongoing behaviour is the following:

As is now widely known, he had a very hedonistic life in his younger days, especially at university. At some point afterwards, he “got religion”. For whatever reason — his own personality or the influences he fell under — he has been stricken with guilt about his previous actions and extreme fear about the divine punishment he believes he will receive in the afterlife, and Choudary therefore embraced the most extreme, ultraorthodox and puritanical interpretation of Islam he could think of.

So Choudary is involved in a massive case of overcompensation as a result of his efforts to save his own neck. He’s basically a “born-again Muslim” who is trying to eradicate or “outweigh” the perceived consequences of his previous lifestyle in terms of what he believes God will do to him after his death. Choudary’s repeated references to “hellfire” sets off alarm bells too.

None of this is necessarily unusual, regardless of people’s religious backgrounds and particularly amongst some 2nd-generation children of immigrants who may find themselves in a state of “cultural confusion” at some point (“caught between two cultures” etc etc). The major problem is this: At a critical juncture, Choudary fell under the corrosive influence of people like Omar Bakri as opposed to the equivalent of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. And Choudary’s ongoing contact with Bakri (basically his “guru”) means that the latter is effectively the devil on Choudary’s shoulder egging him on and continuing to poison his mind.

Choudary will not change his attitude as long as he is in Bakri’s clutches, unless he is confronted by someone with a contradictory viewpoint whom he respects even more than Bakri.

Incidentally, I’m probably stating the obvious when I say that I expect Choudary did not attend any of Rahat Fateh Ali Khan’s huge concerts in the UK in October which were held in tribute to the late Nusrat saab, and that Bakri would not have allowed him to go even if Choudary had been open to it.

http://www.mybnp.co.uk/newsletter/soldier2.html

A splendid time is guaranteed for all!

The death toll by suicide bombings in Pakistan since 2001 stands at 25,000.

Mehdi Hassan made a very good point in his article in the Guardian (which Halima mentioned yesterday), so I’m going to extrapolate that:

If Choudary really is serious about “supporting Muslims and those who defend them from aggression”, he should undertake an “open coffin” procession in Afghanistan and Pakistan in honour of the huge numbers of ordinary Muslims there who have been killed by repeated Islamist terrorist attacks. In the case of Pakistan, suitable venues for such demonstrations would be Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, Waziristan and the NWFP.

If Choudary has concerns about his safety in those regions, then he should hold the processions here in the UK instead.

And if Choudary is deadly serious about honouring innocent Muslims who have been killed, then he should also hold processions in tribute to the numerous Muslims who died in (for example) New York on 9/11, London on 7/7, and Mumbai on 26 November 2008. With regards to Mumbai, he should also bear in mind that the Indian Muslim Council was so angry about the actions of the terrorists claiming to act in the name of Islam and Muslims that they even refused to allow their bodies to be buried on Indian soil.

Assuming that Choudary is prepared to put his money where his mouth is and make such public gestures demonstrating where his sympathies really lie, of course.

The death toll in Afghanistan to date is 246. Over 140 died in Iraq.

Someone told me over lunch today that more Nepalis died fighting the Argentinians in the Falklands war.

Is this correct?

The media are the ones i blame they whipping it up more than is needed and all they care really concerned about is newspaper sales and viewing figures!

I think that is a good point- Wootton Bassett now represents a media battleground. And that is why Islam4UK must be countered.

Dave Bones:

The more Anjem Choudary and his ilk are seen on TV, the more they become the default Muslims for the population. If the only Muslims you encounter are fanatics on TV, you are more likely to take a dim view of Muslims. I wouldn’t want the only white people on TV to be from the BNP and EDL, as that would make people more prejudiced.

I think that is a good point- Wootton Bassett now represents a media battleground. And that is why Islam4UK must be countered.

Dave Bones:

The more Anjem Choudary and his ilk are seen on TV, the more they become the default Muslim for the population. If the only Muslims you encoutner are fanatics on TV, you are more likely to take a dim view of Muslims. I wouldn’t want the only white pepple on TV

Also this protest has a point. What about the uncounted unnamed unnecessary dead of Iraq? Do you not think there should be a statue somewhere in the UK to commemorate them? I am sure their families will feel much safer knowing there is a carved lump of stone somewhere in London without their name on it. Maybe it could be next to the Tomb of the Unknown soldier? Iraqis will feel like Britain hasn’t just forgotten them and we will all sleep sound knowing we haven’t bred any more future enemies

Enough already!

I do not doubt for a moment the deeply held respect and feelings of those who go there. Yet I believe that the UK lost more soldiers in the Falklands than it has in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. The numbers lost in Northern Ireland must have been even more eye-watering.

‘Wootton Basset’ has become a media set-piece occasion unlike any previous conflict, and it was only ever a matter of time before the identity politics panto-dames of Islam and others came along to use the media profile the town has for its own ends.

These Islam4UK demonstrations are being done for the media’s benefit, no one else’s.