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What I meant was – you should invite Shahinoor to write a blog about what he’s trying to do.

I would suggest you need to offer a full right of reply.

>>>Thanks for clearing that up. I’ve now amended the above text.>>>

Thanks for amending the text – I appreciate that.

Shahinoor

Shahinoor – Thanks for clearing that up. I’ve now amended the above text.

Thanks for your question:
>>>>Shahinoor: Firstly, it’s very disappointing that if you’re organising a debate to facilitate dialogue between non-Muslims and Muslims, rather than inviting some intelligent and well-adjusted member of the Muslim community, you invite some anti-democracy lemming who wants to run back to the Middle East and live in a fantasy Khalifah. Is that the best respresentative you can think of? >>>>>>

When I invite New Civ guys or HT members to represent radical Islam I also invite ON THE SAME PANEL “intelligent and well-adjusted member of the Muslim community” eg Headmaster of Islamia School, Sheikha Hassan Ali, Sheikh Dawood Noibi.

Can someone please correct the misconception that DWI is a front of HT. I have put a disclaimer on my website http://www.dialoguewithislam.org

Thanks

Shahinoor

i’m sure you’re aware that Hizb may be but one secular tyrant toppling away from taking over a country in central asia.

Omg! This is exactly what I said to you a few weeks ago when this org launched! And at that time you said you weren’t happy with all these diff Muslim orgs! Finally, you’ve seen the light. Heh…

Sahib, on HuT, various points:

1) The major point about HuT is of course they want Khalifah. They say they don’t want violence, of course they do. But then why do they distribute racist and anti-semitic literature? Their people have been arrested and banned across Europe (and the Middle East of course) doing this. They took their document calling for the killing of Jews from their website. A rep was recently arrested in Scandinavia asking “brothers” to go and fight in Iraq against the infidels. Didn’t they want Musharraf assassinated in Pakistan too?

And I’ve linked to another article up there from Zia Sardar about their porpensity for violence.

2) You have problems with the BNP’s charter. Sure, but they’re also non-violent aren’t they. Does it state they want violence? In fact they’re even ditching voluntary repatriation because they say they’re not racist. I’m not defending the BNP here (just do a search for BNP on PP), but my point is both these groups of thugs are changing their language to gain legitimacy. You’re not afraid of HuT because you are familiar with them. In the same way many white people are less afraid of the BNP than HuT because they talk about issues (anti-immigration etc) in a language they can relate to. HuT do exactly the same with Muslims.

So my point – have the exact standards for both groups, and compare their actions side by side, and you’ll see they’re similar. Both want utopias – one racial, the other religious. Both are racist. Both have been toning down their language and setting up front-groups. Both say nice things but have a totalitarian ideology.

want more do you want?

‘Radhieka’ (can’t even spell an Indian name, imbecile) says: Firstly, we must point out that as a very junior member of Hizb ut-Tahrir, Mr Maher has limited experience and knowledge of our organisation.

So what? Hizb’s bakwaas can be read on their website and their stupidity pointed out that way. The rest is just ineffectual rubbish.

By the way, I didn’t see Shahinoor’s post earlier.
Shahinoor: Firstly, it’s very disappointing that if you’re organising a debate to facilitate dialogue between non-Muslims and Muslims, rather than inviting some intelligent and well-adjusted member of the Muslim community, you invite some anti-democracy lemming who wants to run back to the Middle East and live in a fantasy Khalifah. Is that the best respresentative you can think of?

Tell us something. Is your organisation not at all linked with HuT or have any association with them? If that is the case, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and amend my post. However it is still disappointing you think inviting a Muslim equivalent of the BNP to represent Muslims. Hell, they’re even ignored in most politicised Muslim events I go to.

Will you marry me?

I have been waiting for so long to figure out how to jump start a conversation on Salafism.

I’m going to start with this Shiraz guy.

Give him a little bit of my Merlot.

Thanks.

I don’t think HuT really see you as a threat and they are unlikely to give you the time of day. Why don’t you debate with any of their heavyweights or attend their events to challenge them? I am sure they would relish the opportunity to debate with you.

http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm

Setting aside the question that it is much more an imperialistic,hegemonic political system rather than a nationalistic one, yes it is fair enough that various muslim peoples/nations work this one out.

>>The fact that they would prefer to choose a Caliph rather than a Prime Minister is there business.

It becomes other peoples’ business because this project will inevitably encroach upon other nations’ sovereignty as in the claim for Spain as Don notes above. My own country as well as Thailand and the entire Philippines are destined for violent overthrow and absorption by the SE Asian Jemaah Islamiya caliphate nutjobs. It is very dangerous politics that impacts negatively upon others and a bit much to expect perfect equanimity from those perceiving a direct threat to their existence. It may just be harmless rhetoric in your part of the world. It goes a bit further elsewhere.

To me – its a lazy assertion to say that HT are simply the Muslim right wing version of the BNP. Their goal is to bring back the Caliphate and while there are many issues relating to civil liberties (particularly the rights of women and non-Muslim minorities) – i don’t think its right to say that they have a racialist agenda.

Certainly you or I wouldn’t fancy living under their political system. But then again I wouldn’t fancy living in a Communist regime either. But its a political system – and its up to Muslim people to work out how they organise their own affairs. The fact that they would prefer to choose a Caliph rather than a Prime Minister is there business.