You may as well argue that the culture of White English people and white Greeks is the same.

Note that recent research suggests that 7% or more of all our genes are mutant versions that replaced earlier variants through natural selection over the last tens of thousands of years. There was little gene flow between continental clusters (“races”) during that period, so there is circumstantial evidence for group differences beyond the already established ones (superficial appearance, disease resistance).

For example, you see new versions of SLC6A4, a serotonin transporter, in Europeans and Asians. There’s a new version of a gene (DAB1) that shapes the development of the layers of the cerebral cortex in east Asia.* There is no strong evidence yet for specific gene variants (alleles) that lead to group differences (differences between clusters) in behavior or intelligence, but progress on the genomic side of this question will be rapid in coming years, as the price to sequence a genome is dropping at an exponential rate.

There is already considerable evidence that groups mature at different rates and that mental ability is significantly heritable. Ankney, C. D. (2009). Whole-brain size and general mental ability: A review. International Journal of Neuroscience, 119, 691-731

*http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.0030090

http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?reque…

A complementary article is

Yet another racism row in Britain. Journalist Rod Liddle blames violent crime in London on black men.
http://www.savablogs.info/2009/12/yet-another-r…

Link:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1502158

Where is the killer link to show British Bangladeshis under-perform irrespective of their socio-economic background, gender or religion?

Funny isn't it how we can use what is a positive achievement in the British Chinese population and use it to denigrate other groups? I mean, why can't we just celebrate the success of Chinese Britons? Period. No, we must go on and say, well the Chinese manage to do OK, but these Blacks and Bangladeshis , they're a bit useless..

This is cultural is it not? The ‘babyfather’ culture that disproportionally affects the black community

It is a social problem that affects a good part of the community. But to call social problems as part of an ethnic culture is just wrong.

Surely you’re not denying that the children of ethnic-Chinese immigrants don’t perform disproportionally well in schools?

I hope I do not have to repeat this again. My position is that an individual's success is strongly correlated to their parents educational level and their economic status, not culture or race. You mentioned the boat people as a counter-example, but that vindicated my position for the fact that they actually are a disadvantaged group. If you want to bring the ethnic Chinese as a counter-example and I never disputed that like the Indians they do pretty well in school, you need to prove that their parents are poor and come from low educational backgrounds, in order to make the point that despite those disadvantages, their culture corrects that. As far as I know, a good part of our British Chinese come from Hong Kong.

And you have failed to provide a single piece of reputable and empirical evidence to support your view.

I guess I cannot match authors you consider excellent, highly intelligent and thoughtful.

- “… as well as the fact that a black child is more likely be born with a single mother and out-of-wedlock than a white child, who is more likely to be raised by two parents…“

This is cultural is it not? The ‘babyfather’ culture that disproportionally affects the black community is simply “a socially transmitted behaviour pattern” from my definition of ‘culture’. Obama gets it. Perhaps you can too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7509142.stm

- “What poor ethnic-Chinese parents are you talking about?”

Surely you’re not denying that the children of ethnic-Chinese immigrants don’t perform disproportionally well in schools? Because if you were, then there really isn’t any point debating with you. This is an accepted and widely discussed fact.

Here’s an interesting piece of research that links the disproportional educational success of Chinese children to Chinese culture. Scroll down to “cultural expectations”:

http://www.csse.ca/CJE/Articles/FullText/CJE26-…

“I have parroted what several people who actually have studied the subject said (I suggest reading freakonmics) – that it is your parent's educational level and their economic status that have the strongest correlation to success, not culture or even race.”

And you have failed to provide a single piece of reputable and empirical evidence to support your view.

I asked you before. How do you explain the disproportional educational success of the children of ethnic-Chinese children here and in the US compared to the success of every other cultural or ethnic group?

And a ‘believer’ believes as a matter of faith over rationality or evidence. Think about it while you’re unsuccessfully trying to find reputable evidence to support your view or disprove mine.

We’re not talking about “the majority of blacks are born in poverty and have parents with poor educational background”. We’re talking about the children of MIDDLE CLASS black people.

It is clear from the link you provided that the black middle-class is not the same as the white middle-class – both economically and educationally – as well as the fact that a black child is more likely be born with a single mother and out-of-wedlock than a white child, which is more likely to be raised by two parents. The article points out that this is one of the explanations of this downward move. So, the playing field is not the same. What's more, white people in the same situation are also likely to get poor… do you actually say that they have a “defective” culture or that they are adopting black culture?

It doesn’t vindicate your position at all. But why not consider the relative educational success of children from poor ethnic-Chinese parents instead. How would you explain that?

What poor ethnic-Chinese parents are you talking about?

As usual Ravi, you fail to provide a single coherent argument, never mind a modicum of evidence, to explain why children from certain cultural backgrounds do so much better or worse than children from others.

I have parroted what several people who actually have studied the subject said (I suggest reading freakonmics) – that it is your parent's educational level and economic status that has strongest correlation to success, not culture or even race.

You really are a ‘believer’ aren’t you?

We all are.

But I do.

-“But what is actually there to suggest that it is their culture that prevents them from going up, and not the fact that the majority of blacks are born in poverty and have parents with poor educational background?”

Did you actually read the evidence?

Here it is again:

…A major problem currently facing the American black middle class is the threat of downward mobility, which affects middle-class blacks significantly more than the rest of the middle class…

We’re not talking about “the majority of blacks are born in poverty and have parents with poor educational background”. We’re talking about the children of MIDDLE CLASS black people.

-“You assume, wrongly, that whites and blacks in the US are born with the same economic and educational advantages, and because blacks have their culture, they go downhill, while whites go uphill.”

The evidence I presented compared like-with-like in terms of the respective economic backgrounds of the black and white families.

-“And you are WRONG about the boat people (assuming you meant Vietnamese and other neighbours from South East Asia ) – they are actually one of the most depraved ethnic groups in the US. This actually vindicates my position.”

It doesn’t vindicate your position at all. But why not consider the relative educational success of children from poor ethnic-Chinese parents instead. How would you explain that?

-“Don't let this discourage you, Marvin and other equally normal and centrist people from doing your best to defend Rod Liddle, Mad Mel, and those “excellent” videos that state that racism is one is most artificial, manufactured and manipulated social constructs ever made. I would include A.C. in that list, but I think he is just utterly confused.”

As usual Ravi, you fail to provide a single coherent argument, never mind a modicum of evidence, to explain why children from certain cultural backgrounds do so much better or worse than children from others.

You really are a ‘believer’ aren’t you?

Here is one statistic about their disadvantage:

http://tinyurl.com/7mlhgl

And finally, here’s a piece of ‘killer-evidence’ to support Rod Liddle’s implication that there is something inherently wrong with ‘Black’ culture

Actually, you prove nothing of the sort. You are providing a snapshot of the socio-economic status of the black community in the US, which yes, it is very problematic. But what is actually there to suggest that it is their culture that prevents them from going up, and not the fact that the majority of blacks are born in poverty?

You assume, wrongly, that whites and blacks in the US are born with the same economic and educational advantages, and because blacks have their culture, they go downhill, while whites go uphill. And you are WRONG about the boat people (assuming you meant Vietnamese and other neighbours from South East Asia ) – they are actually one of the most depraved ethnic groups in the US and the most illiterate.

-“It is interesting that you are now pitting Chinese immigrants and thier descendants against African-Caribbean and Bangladeshi…”

I’m not “pitting” anyone against anyone. In this debate, I’m arguing and evidencing the fact that children from some cultures are more likely to succeed educationally (and therefore economically) than children from others. Therefore, I’m presenting this as evidence that all cultures are not equivalent. Indeed I’m arguing that some cultures may be defective and that people born into and living in those cultures have a greater likelihood to fail educationally and economically and indeed, as Rod Liddle implied, have a demonstrably greater propensity to commit violent crime.

Now all the evidence supporting this argument should make these conclusions obvious to any intelligent person. However, history has shown that those on the left will initially deny that the evidence exists, and when that stance becomes untenable, they’ll claim that discrepancies in success or behaviours between cultural groups is the fault of a ‘racist’ white society. Without any evidence, naturally.

-“You have chosen a community that must be the least 'assimilated' in this country…”

This is irrelevant to the context of this debate. Whether or not assimilation is desirable doesn’t change the fact that clearly some cultures are better at promoting educational and economic success than others.

-“I would imagine there are quite successful people in Bangladesh…”

Of course there are. What is it about lefties and your failure to comprehend the concept of proportionality? Despite the fact that some people in Bangladesh are educated and wealthy doesn’t change the fact proportionally, British ethnic-Bangladeshis are more likely to be poor and uneducated than the children of British ethnic-Chinese, regardless of the wealth or education level of their parents.

And finally, here’s a piece of ‘killer-evidence’ to support Rod Liddle’s implication that there is something inherently wrong with ‘Black’ culture, (regardless of the fact that this evidence should not even be necessary when considering the disproportional failures of that cultural group, in education, economic success and criminality).

This research, conducted by the Pew Research Centre in 2007, concerns the ‘downward mobility’ of middle class African-American children in the US:

“A major problem currently facing the American black middle class is the threat of downward mobility, which affects middle-class blacks significantly more than the rest of the middle class. A report done by the Pew Research Center in 2007 reveals that of the sons and daughters of the black middle class, 45% of black children end up “near poor”, and the comparable rate for white families is 16%.[3] The trend of downward mobility has caused the overall majority of middle-class-black children to end up with lower incomes than their parents. While 68% of white children earn incomes above their parents, 31% of black children earn incomes more than their parents did.[3] The trend of downward mobility could be caused by the lack of married blacks, and the number of blacks born out of wedlock. As of 2009, 72% of black babies are born out of wedlock, compared with 28% of white women.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_middle_class

Have you watched the video yet?

Yes, I have Marvin – every crappy minute of it. And you did not answer my questions above. Just in case you “missed” them, here they are again:

The video starts by saying “I … can’t think of another issue that is more artificial, manufactured and manipulated than this whole construct called racism”, are you honestly saying that he is not making the point that people not only not suffer from racism and discrimination, but that people actually lie for a nefarious purpose?

Why do you feel the need to defend these people, Marvin? What points do you actually agree with the video?

I actually want to know what a “centrist” and normal person would answer. Of course, Reza also thinks he is moderate and mainstream. So, both of you are in good company.

I wish you would give up O'Keefe. I'm a centrist. A normal person. You are a far-left imbecile, trapped in your own 80's class war dogma.

Almost everybody on here I disagree with actually stops and makes me think, except you. You haven't a clue. What have you contributed to the debate? Sweet FA.

David – I hear ya brother! I'm tired of of these mindless twits too.

I learned a lot from this blog, but now the wingnuts dominate debate everywhere. The internet is great for a lot of things, except that now the wingnuts have broadband and don't we know it.

The problem is the gun and gang crime, not the commentators. If you want my suggestions as part of a serious debate, start the debate on a dedicated thread.

Left blogs would rather let young black and Asian kids die than challenge their respective communities about the risks they face. If you can dispute that, provide some links and I'll take it back.

If you don't like it, you can always make your comments for registered members only.