what criteria? actions, darling, behavior, not your muslim’ friends behavior but muslim behavior when they can freely express what they think of non-muslims…
Governmental position on non-muslims in muslim countries?
ok Miriam I give up, if you are stupid this is really forever)))

I’ve spent many years in the Middle East Camilla which is neither here nor there.

Well, Camilla, were you to fuck off this site and not come back, I don’t think anyone would pursue you and “start polemics” with you. Believe it or not no one cares enough to hunt you down at your house. But the fact is, I browse this site and if I read your comments I will respond to them until the moderators stop me. Who are you to whinge?

it’s not just a matters of human right violation – yeah it happens everywhere.

It’s culture, it’s actual policy, – to supress non-muslims, and it’s based on religion. I’m not asking why it happens – but why none protects them?

have you lived in muslim countries, Miriam? not just been where as a tourist? Pakistan? Lybia? Iran? Syria? or at least Turkey?

if the muslims are peaceful in general, when tell me – how many terrorists were extradited from muslim countries?

I just recalled the lybians who actually … were greeting their terrorist Al-Megrahi as a national hero

all that so called radicals (why “radicals” by the way? they just follow their religion carefully) do – is done with muslim masses approval

ps I won’t tell to wake up and smell the coffee, don’t worry… you said, I had been living my life in fear, but you living your life with your head in the sand…

It’s your choice, I don’t really need you to change your mind (actually as far as I remember it, it’s always you, who start polemics with me) but why attack people who don’t want to put on blinds? I mean not me (I don’t care) but people in real life

Actually I apply to muslims the same criteria that you apply to BNP or EDL …

Human Rights abuses sadly occur all over the place, remember Extraordinary rendition … How about Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay; or certain British soldiers in Basra in September 2003 – are you really expecting me to hold that all soldiers in The Queen’s Lancashire Regiment are beasts who routinely treat suspect inhumanely? As previously stated, just because some people act in a manner unacceptable at best and abhorrent at its worse, I refuse to assume that all people act like it.

I think the issue isn't that there aren't any concerns but that polarisation is making it difficult to actually get to the real problem.

nice answer, Miriam, top popular among muslim's defenders

but the problem is – it has nothing to do with the truth

so you mean all those events when muslims in islamic countries killed non-muslims, raped them, burned their houses – it just because the victims weren't nice to them? oh. I see, they are – the victims – to blame.

so you say that the reason why muslim immigrants commit so many sexual crimes (more tham 60 percent in Norway for example) – it just because they weren't treated nicely?

as I have already written, muslims will treat you just as their religion tells them to… and as actual political situation allows them…

you can believe whatever you want but the history inexorably proves one fact – just as the muslims get the idea that they can cut infidels' throat and get away with it – they will do it. and they do it!

violence against infidels is ok with muslims – when will you understand?I jus don't get it

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/legal-and-consti…

and where do you draw a line? Do you have to at some point with the various cultures?
If there is Muslim Parliment and towns brodcasting the call to prayer – violent or non violent are they still “invasions” on the indigeous culture ?
This was a good look at multicultualism from the inside …
http://www.euro-islam.info/2009/09/07/seen-and-…

maybe multiculturalism is more like a bridge to something, that might be good ”

Okay Queen, second try … I spent yesterday setting up the workstation as I got taken aback at losing the post (and I was snowed in anyway )
I don’t suppose it matters much what being British is but rather whether there is a sense of belonging. Nor does it matter what the phenomenon of coexistence and assimilation is called. The process itself is as old as the hills and has been a part of human communal life since the very first day an ancestor of humanity walked up a hill and came across another ancestor s/he hadn’t grown up with. Labelling it ‘melting pot’ (with reference to that golden oldie by Blue Mink (1969) written by Cook and Greenaway) or ‘mosaic’ says a lot more about the modern need to label everything then it says about the process itself.
As for it getting tricky? Why should it get tricky? You mention ‘indigenous culture’ but in all honesty it is, at best, but a synchronic snapshot. Even those individuals who have lived in … oh let’s say Dingley Dell for arguments’ sake, for the past umpteen hundreds of years engage in totally different pursuits then their ancestors did, view life differently from their ancestors, have different expectations and aspirations … in fact their very concept of what being residents of Dingley Dell entails and means is totally different from the concept their grandparents, great grandparents and great-great-great … blah blah bladdity blah grandparents had.
As for your link to the headline “Harman will ban Christmas, bishops warn” … nice emotive headline BTW but when you read the actual content you will see it is full of supposition; it COULD lead not will … and what else do we read?
“It could also force religious groups to take on gay staff; a measure that was derided by senior clergy who fear the new law would reduce the power of the Church and 'dilute' its moral message.”
And that really is the main issue as far as the not entirely unbiased bishops are concerned. It is the reduction of power of the church and the potential dilution of its moral message; abortion, contraception, same sex couples, homosexuals and, to a lesser extent possibly, lesbians … The list is endless. Aside from which the seasonal warning that Christmas is banned has become almost traditional over the past few years.

As for where we draw the line … drawing the line under anything to do with human interaction is tantamount to sounding the death knell on it. Life needs change in order to continue being; be that culture, traditional or otherwise, be that language, be that human existence, be that art, music … anything that is forcibly stopped in its track eventually withers and dies. On the other hand organic change, gradual and over time, given time, will find its way and changes that are found not to be conducive to it will fade away to become a thing of the past just as work-houses did and the poor-law of Dickens’ time. And if that means that eventually Britain will end up with a Muslim parliament – something extremely unlikely but I take it you mean a parliament where the majority of MPs are Muslim (even if only by 1) then that is democracy…

Evidence is a link to an independent source. A reiteration of an unverifiable claim does not alter the status of the claim.

Some Muslims are certainly inclined to violence as are some Jews, some Christians, some Athiests, vegetarians, cyclists, football players and – well take your pick of any group of human beings really … I've even read about a militant Buddhist monk or two. I still fail to see why the fact that some individuals are inclined to violence should cause me to regard all individuals as inclined to violence.
Please do not bother trying to explain as I am almost 100% sure that it will only involve reiteration of previously queried claims. Circular debates are so very tiresome

Quite frankly Camilla the majority of Muslims I have had dealings with are people who have treated me with immense courtesy. Would that be because I treated them with common civility and humanity? Maybe and maybe that would have been their initial response regardless.

I do think what was said about insecurities has alot to do with what you are discussing in regaurds to crime. I can't remember the exact number of unemployment precentages.
But work and esteme go hand and hand don't you think?

1.they (Iraqi refugees) should definitely be deported. It's not a question for me.their refugee status is no excuse for their barbaric behaviour. I can't use the word “pigs” because i don't want to offend pigs. How can you explain their open and deliberate ignoring the law? the only answer I see – kafir's law is no law for them, kafir's life property and so on means nothiing for them

2. the majority of violent crimes are commited by muslims and non-whites – it's so in my country. everyone knows it but you know what happens if it would be declared officially. in many European countries it's the same.

3. I'm not insinuating, I'm saying it directly – muslims are inclined to violence (especially to violence against non-muslims), there is nothing peaceful about islam. so say what you want to say about me – I have no reason to change my mind. otherwise why religious minorirties are permanently discriminated and persecuted in muslim countries? muslims are trying to persecute non-muslims even in your country – open your eyes! – after all that was done for them.

even secular humanist should keep in mind that the muslims are not people who would treat you as you treat them. It's childish to expect that. they will treat you as their religion tells them to. and you can be infinitely kind to them

Until fairly recently it was thought that other primates were ethically better than us what call ourselves *homo sapiens sapiens*, with our flechette weaponry and our mobile gas champers and our nerve gas, but in the last couple of decades it's been established that there are deliquent chimpanzee families which grab other chimpanzees' offspring and devour them [behaviour unlikely to be encountered even on the nastiest council estates of Merseyside] and that their are gorilla gangs which establish territorial boundaries and ambush interlopers and kill them.

Fifty years ago it was the RC Irish and persons-of-RC-Irish-descent who were overrepresented in the UK prison system.

Despite the ongoing best efforts of criminals-of-RC-Irish-descent in places like Glasgow and Liverpool, the Hibernian star has visibly waned in recent years; it is persons-of-SubSaharan-African-decent who are disproportionately overrepresented in UK prisons, just as they are overrepresented in the prison sytems of the USA, Canada, France, Holland and Belgium.

Muslims are three times overrepresented in the UK prison system. In La Belle France those greedy Muslims have grabbed fully 50% of the prison bunk space.

As anyone might have guessed, Jews and Chinese and Sikhs just AREN'T trying when it comes to criminality; they occupy far fewer cell spaces than their numbers in the population warrant.

In the USA, Japanese-Americans have the highest rate of completing high school [even ahead of Jews and Armenians] and the lowest incidence of imprisonment. Obviously they're clever and cunning criminals, to escape detection and conviction and imprisonment so deftly!

As for Camilla, responding to you is quick and requiring little prior cogitation. If 'envy' was merely an off-the-cuff response … so be it.

As for the fact that 78% of the British prison population being non-Muslim; this figure was taken from a HO summary of statistical data regarding prison population. I am still trying to figure out what you are actually saying with your reference to the Muslim prisoner percentage in France. I know what I think you are trying to insinuate but I do not want to be accused of putting words in your mouth. It would be much preferable if you actually explained yourself. Just like with your following post regarding the deportation of 30 Iraqi refugees who, after having committed 90 crimes which you so kindly offer me.
Are you asking should they be deported? The answer is certainly BTW. Or are you merely in the habit of throwing garbage about? In short Camilla, it would be highly conducive to any discussion if it is actually based on something other then single word posts or unbalanced claims without reference or elucidation.

I am still waiting for your evidence regarding your claim that “the majority of violence crimes are commited by non-whites” … take your time if you like. I am a very patient person

“78% of prisoners in England are non Muslim … your point?”

I am not so sure about this figure… wait until it will be a half-muslim country or even one-third-muslim country… oh, I know it still will mean nothing even if 90% of prisoners will be muslims…

Miriam are you muslim yourself?

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/legal-and-consti…

and where do you draw a line? Do you have to at some point with the various cultures?
If there is Muslim Parliment and towns brodcasting the call to prayer – violent or non violent are they still “invasions” on the indigeous culture ?
This was a good look at multicultualism from the inside …
http://www.euro-islam.info/2009/09/07/seen-and-…

maybe multiculturalism is more like a bridge to something, that might be good