http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1062375...

Are you serious? Where I live there are droves of Muslim boys, who haven't a clue about their religion either.

You know the type I'm sure? Jeans hanging two foot off the arse, a big fat silver H. Samuels necklace and bracelet worth a grand total off £14.99. At least two tubs of gel in their hair. Bizarrely, all of their sentences seem to end in either “innit” or “yeh blud” or “you get me”. They talk black, but curiously often hate blacks?

They spend their times frequenting dinghy pool halls, sheesha bars and normal bars where they stand around but may or may not drink, on the pull. If lucky they drive around in souped up cars ala Ali G style. They can't seem to grasp the English language let alone the Arabic required to understand the Koran. If they ever went mosque it was because their family forced them to. But now they grown up, they are more likely to be spend Fridays somewhere smoking spliffs than going Jummah.

That is an average British Muslim yoof round many 'endz'. Have you met any? I'm sure you have, you can't miss them. By now you should be beginning to understand that every religion has its lax section. In fact I would venture a guess and say all faiths are made up of a spectrum of people with the completely fastidious on one end of the scale and the completely unconcerned/unaware on the other. Between these we will have a multitude of people who live in the grey areas. You can clearly see this in the Muslim community, so you highlighting some lax Sikhs isn't any sort of strike for your cause, in case you see it like that.

Aside from that, about 40% of Indian households rely on social wefare benefits whereas the percentages are in the nineties for the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities.

Oh and what about educational achievements and the stark contrasts that exist between the Indians and the Pakistanis and Bengalis.

How about the crime rates in areas where the largest minority groups are Muslims like Bradford, east London, Luton and Birmingham?

I could bring out a whole slew of statistics to show you just how economically underdeveloped the Muslim communities are in this country and around the world generally but I won't because I don't actually care.

The only one who seems to have a chip on his shoulder about religion is you… are you sure you really believe in Islam because you sound like you need to convince yourself you haven't been sold a lie… *ahem*

Fojee, as for most prosperous, did you do a survey? I think the Jews have out prospered you by a thousand fold with or without the likes of Maidoff plus the Chinese and the Arabs….seriously need I say more ?

Dalbir/Foji, I don't know who your directing your comments at, but I suspect its probably about the financial control of Smethwick Gurdwara

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/1107

Keep blowing your own trumpet, cos preaching to the converted has always been what your good at

You can have Punjab- it's just land.

Sure it's where our religion started but Sikhs don't ascribe any meaning to nonsensical material items like land. Sure, we love to farm and make a fair and honest wage from working the land across the world, but it's not ours… it's God's.

And the funny thing is, you go on about our Rehat Maryada changing… well, no offence to Muslims, but you guys in-fight constantly and sectarian Muslim divides kill more Muslims than non-Muslims do, so… ready for your humble pie yet, son?

What are we supposed to do with practicing Sikhs then? The true SIkh way of life involves walking up predawn, everyday for over an hours worth of prayers and then two further prayers at sunset and bedtime. Physical training as well if we are real.

No alcohol and (usually) no drugs as well as curtailed dietry habits (if not vege then jhatka).

I don't agree with your point above because it emphasises the Panjabi more than the Sikh. Whilst I might fall heavily into the former category it would be foolish of me to mistake this for a reflection of the traditional SIkh way of life, which is much more committed to hard disclipline and spiritual practices such as naam simran than partying.

What I am trying to say is, if Muslims are to be castigated for anything, from a Sikh perspective, it shouldn't be the kind of things you mentioned in your post. Going by your logic, if the majority of Sikhs actually started committing themselves to the prescribed practices of their dharam instead of jamboreeing (which admittedly Panjabis do very well), we would quickly 'lose' the 'love' from the other people you mentioned.

You can't have 'others' put conditions on accepting us like that. Make sense?

Islam, however, is BORING. Nothing but a blueprint for an utterly dreary cheerless life. The closest thing they have to a festival is to go hungry for a month.

Why oh why would anyone want to live in such tedium?

What's the matter, Old Boy?

Can't hack it that new blood is around and is even more on point than you?

Move on- you're over the hill.

Get your facts straight before you bark, sunshine, because you don't know who you're talking to over t'internet, acha puttar?

Fojee stop making a phudu of yourself with badhoo/faaltoo comments.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

My family trace our heritage back to Wazir Khan and I can confirm that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was murdered by assassins.

Get your facts straight before you bark, sunshine, because you don't know who you're talking to over t'internet, acha puttar?

I've hard the stories about 25 Sikhs taking on a million Muslim soldiers

That seems exaggerated but maybe you are talking about this? This account was written by Qazi Nur Mohammad who accompanied Abdali Shah's invading party from Afghanistan (1764-1765). It is called Jang-nama. Note the translation from the Persian diary is by a Muslim (Iqtidar Alam Khan):

“When the shah (Abdali) arrived at the Chak [modern day Amritsar] he did not find any of the infidels there. But a few men had stayed back within the internal enclosure so they may spill there own blood and sacrifice their lives for the Guru. As they saw the Shah and the entire army of Islam (*the size of this army is indicated in the later quote given below), all of them came out of the enclosure. Those Sikhs were not 30 in number: they did not at all show any fear of being killed or dread of death. As they engaged the holy warriors (ghazis) and as the spilt their blood all the Sikhs were killed.”

Not a million but heavy odds still…no?

“If you do not believe in what I say, you may enquire from brave swordsmen who would tell you more than this and would express appreciation of their [Singhs] manner of combat. This statement is confirmed by the fact that thirty of them engaged thirty thousand troops during the battle.”

See, those kind of stories are provided by Muslims themselves. The things your imam tells you, is only to make you feel good about Islam, not based on any truth. Whilst we are on that subject matter, if I wanted to be arsey with you could I not easily start to talk about Mohammad's EXTREMELY young wife?

Face it, many Pakistanis harbour deep hatred for Sikhs for the stubborn resistance they gave in the face of numerous attempts at religious and political domination. Generally Sikhs have given as good as they have got. And I pray they always will, when forced to.

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh

I always try to remember that there is a spiritual side to all religions based on a belief system, which may sound absurd when it is iterated out of context, but if such actions and testimony are denied realistion and reflection on The Creator, then that action is simply a charade or ritual, and in the mortal sense seems illogical.

You seem hell bent on attacking Sikhism without wanting to understand the facts, nor spiritual lesson, nor the spiritual accomplishment of those that you slander. I pray that God, Allah, Rahim, Waheguru (take your pick cos He is the same) showers mercy on your consciousness and grants you the wisdom to understand His game of love.

Rab rakha!

FP, with your analogy would suggest that Sikhs would be ruling the entire Galaxy today if we were to go by your figures, the truth is that 7/10 of Punjab is owned by Pakistan and I admit kashmir is still in dispute.

I'm not advocating mutually assured destruction since both Sikhs and Musalman have nukes, I would appreciate a better reflection of Sikh history since it seems to have changed more time than your own Rehit Maryada (cammandments) but then thats changed beyond recogniton too!

Get your facts straight, your Guru was killed in battle, he did not fall off a cliff, he did not die of cancer, he did not die of a wound, he died by decapitation, ie sword to throat (Gardan)

Is that what your mullah told you to make you feel better about history?

The Sikh story is a beautiful one for all the world (including muslims). A real life truimph of the inspired against the so-called mighty in the face of the most appalling barbarism that didn't even spare peaceful men and children.

Get it straight, Guru Gobind Singh passed away from a wound inflicted in a surprise attack on his person. He killed the assailant before he could run away and died some days later.

I think a good way to avoid taxes is to adopt the Islamic dress code of beard and turban, and by the way the name 'Singh' wasn't someone else's too by any chance, didnt you people like your identity or something ?

Are you serious! After copying circumcisms and your own version of kosher meat from the Jews (plus those small topis) you have the front to say that? What's the matter, couldn't your people think of their own ideas and have to copy the Yids? See where I am going with this?

Anyway. Use your brain Wallaby. We know how all of this Internet chat is going to end up. Just quit it now. I hope you are intelligent enough to know that Sikhs in general are as unlikely to accept the Muslim version of events as Muslims are theirs. We can get into a childish 'slagging off' match about it, but I doubt it will do anyone much good.

Balls in your court. I

I don't now if assassination counts as dying in the battle, but leaving that aside for a moment, Aurangzeb had failed to crush the Sikhs (mainly because his attention was elsewhere), and so Guru Gobind Singh could said to achieved victory in that regard.

Get your facts straight, your Guru was killed in battle, he did not fall off a cliff, he did not die of cancer, he did not die of a wound, he died by decapitation, ie sword to throat (Gardan) obvioisly by now Sikhs couldn't re-make the same old story about your Baba Deep Singh who continued to fight without a head, so instead history was re-written by sikh 'historians' to make the Guru look like a 'winner' when in fact he lost….and by the way 7/10 of Punjab is in Pakistan, 3/10 in India, as for paying Taxes to a 'Singh' I think a good way to avoid taxes is to adopt the Islamic dress code of beard and turban, and by the way the name 'Singh' wasn't someone else's too by any chance, didnt you people like your identity or something ?

Think about it