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  • Technorati: graph / links

    Interview with English Democrats at anti-Islamists demo


    by Sunny on 5th November, 2009 at 6:10 AM    

    At the anti-Islamists demo against al-Muhajiroun last weekend, I was intrigued by the guys standing opposite us draped in English flags. So I thought I’d interview one. I found out that it wasn’t the EDL but the English Democrats who were protesting. To his credit, the spokesperson Bill Baker was generally quite sensible on most issues. I disagreed on a few and question him in the video (which, admittedly, is aimed badly throughout).

    Tom Griffin has also posted a video of me debating some of the nutjobs there that day.


         
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    Filed in: Islamists, Race politics






    27 Comments below   |   Add your own

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs


    1. dave bones — on 5th November, 2009 at 10:49 AM  

      “This isn’t EDL? Oh. Shit!”

      Nice one. That is great. Interesting guy. There is nothing better than talking to people in the street.

    2. Reza — on 5th November, 2009 at 10:58 AM  

      As we’ve seen with Nick Griffin, many extremists try to hide their unsavoury views so that they may sound reasonable to gullible people.

      At first, the interviewer sounded perfectly reasonable in his interview with the EDP spokesperson.

      Until we got to the subject of illegal immigration. Then the mask slipped.

      Suddenly we saw someone who would legalise every illegal immigrant in this country.

      And you have to wonder, what else lurks in the recesses of that dark mind.

      Allow the newly legalised illegals to bring their families here? Give them all British passports? What about removing all immigration controls altogether? Open borders?

      Any parent will tell you that rewarding undesirable behaviour will cause even more undesirable behaviour.

      That’s what legalising illegal immigrants would achieve. More people smugglers. More illegals losing their lives trying to enter this country illegally. More bogus student visas. More visa over-stayers. More misery for everyone.

      That’s why this interview is such a good example of how important dialogue is in exposing extremism.

    3. Yahya Birt — on 5th November, 2009 at 11:37 AM  

      Nice one. More of this direct reporting on Pickled Politics if possible please. It cuts through a lot of the media commentariat chaff…

    4. Boyo — on 5th November, 2009 at 11:47 AM  

      Sunny, I read this on Standpoint the other day.

      http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/in-league-with-the-extreme-right-features-louis-amis-english-defence-league

      You (and other Picklers) might find it of interest. It also cuts through a lot of the “chaff” I think….

    5. Dan — on 5th November, 2009 at 12:07 PM  

      Boyo @ 3

      Thanks for the link. There’s a lot to think about there.

    6. qidniz — on 5th November, 2009 at 1:30 PM  

      I found out that it wasn’t the EDL but the English Democrats who were protesting.

      Found out? The video makes clear that you had your kneejerk assumption confounded.

    7. Trofim — on 5th November, 2009 at 1:32 PM  

      Well, Sunny, I am used to seeing you and others frequently dismiss, write off, what are in actual fact, wide swathes of the population, in various derogatory terms - the Right, Conservatives, Middle England, the Daily Mail crowd and so on. I am also interested in the aetiology of attitudes, that is, how you arrive at your conceptions of the world. I’m sure that lefties, like righties, don’t waste time hobnobbing with those they feel to be the enemy, but reinforce each other’s perceptions by mutual endorsement of their own shared views, and mutual condemnation of the other side’s, without actually encountering the other side in person. It’s only natural. So this is a pleasant surprise. After all, this bloke, who you didn’t find too disagreeable, is probably a Daily Mail reader. Gulp. I would be curious to see whether if you actually encountered, let’s say, representatives of the other side, more frequently in the flesh, whether it might lead to some modification of your views? And vice versa. That faceless way of encountering has distinct deleterious effects.
      I have to tell you that I did a search of the site for “nutjob”. As I predicted, I’m afraid, every post was by you.

    8. Trofim — on 5th November, 2009 at 1:55 PM  

      I mean “This faceless way [on a blog] of encountering has distinct deleterious effects”. Polarising, alienating.

    9. Sunny — on 5th November, 2009 at 2:32 PM  

      Trofim, possibly! But then we also met some nutjobs that day (second video) who I came away thinking that there were even more idiotic than I gave them credit for!

    10. Jerome Taylor — on 5th November, 2009 at 7:23 PM  

      Must admit all those wearing the St George flags that day seemed relatively reasonable and it was good to see them come out.

      My favourite was a young lad with who sported a tattoo of a bulldog with the words “White Spirit” and was holding a placard from BM4SD.

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/77827383@N00/4060969331/

      Sunny, saw you busily debating those other blokes, wish I’d known they were SIOE. Here’s a pic of you in action:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/77827383@N00/4060970125/

    11. Jerome Taylor — on 5th November, 2009 at 7:46 PM  

      PS: A few hours later I got a bus from the start of the Mall where the real EDL were hanging out. It was a surreal site really. About 50 men dressed in England footie shirts shouting various anti-Islamic slogans. Problem was they didn’t really have anyone to shout to apart from a load of bemused tourists and a few souls waiting for the No 87.

    12. falcao — on 5th November, 2009 at 9:06 PM  

      English democracts my god the spokesman seems to be stuck on caveman mode, he sounds more stupid than the choudray mob. Jingoism and nationalism really does bring out and appeal to the most dimmest people it seems.

    13. Nyrone — on 5th November, 2009 at 10:12 PM  

      Sunny, this is great and I agree about having more direct-reporting…

      I’m happy to help too.

    14. damon — on 5th November, 2009 at 10:21 PM  

      Yes he’s a bit thick falcao, but so are many people.
      It’s how people are. Not everyone went to university.

    15. damon — on 5th November, 2009 at 11:20 PM  

      Oh, and that was an interesting link from Standpoint magazine that Boyo did @ 3.
      It sounds pretty plausible
      Not ”Nazis” - but a loose group of chauvanist lumpenproletariat.

      Having watched a few youtubes like this, I think that the UAF tactics are totally wrong and that they show themselves up to be narrow thinkers.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImdXSGew7H4

      The answer to this is not to be winding up muslim youth (and student lefties) to be physically attacking these EDL people, but maybe trying to reason with the EDL’s leading members. (And maybe just accepting that these people need to let off steam from time to time).
      They say their not racist, so hold them to it.
      They say they are not agaist muslims, so try to get them to be more specific in what the’re against.

      Tell them that chanting ”Muslim bombers, off our strets” is divisive … but this is where my plan wont work. They wouldn’t understand why.

      They say that the balaclavas that they sometimes wear are no worse than ‘burkas’.
      It’s a culture gulf.

      But these people are the same people who lived in the England that Dickens wrote about and who made up the Pals battalions in WW1. The world has moved on and they have lagged behind.

    16. douglas clark — on 6th November, 2009 at 12:21 AM  

      falcao (@11) and damon(@13),

      Your mutual disregard for someone who cannot communicate ideas as well as you do are, what?

      Arrogance, or summat wrapped up in joint 2.2 sociology degrees?

      It says a fucking sight more about your mutual intellectual arrogance than any sort of shared humanity or empathy.

      I will stand up for science, I will not have truck with this intellectual bullshit. Given that Falcao, in particular, couldn’t argue his way out of a wet paper bag.

      Frankly, it is the pair of you that come across as a couple of elitist chumps.

      ________________________________

      damon @ 14.

      They say that the balaclavas that they sometimes wear are no worse than ‘burkas’.
      It’s a culture gulf.

      Yes, but who started it? Has the rather controversial and usually wrong Falcao even broached that issue on this thread? I think he is daft, but he is not that daft.

      You could probably graph the incidence of burka wearing - v - anti muslim sentiments on a time line. It might be an interesting exercise.

    17. damon — on 6th November, 2009 at 1:22 AM  

      Douglas, @ 13 I was trying to show that I disagreed with falcao.
      But that doesn’t mean I’m afraid to call supporters of the EDL or the English Democrats (and the BNP too) as being thick. It’s not about being elitist, but just saying how things appear to be.
      Though I’m not into general ‘chav bashing’.
      (I’m not even that keen on bashing working class Tories like Nadine Dorries).

      Yes niqab wearing has gone up in line with this ‘graph’ you mention.

    18. lfc4life — on 6th November, 2009 at 2:01 AM  

      #11 falcao

      the current trend of wholesale hugging the flag and pointing the finger at anyone looking foreign makes me feel uncomfortable also. The video was funny the spokesman is a complete muppet he said its ok for jewish beth din courts to solve civil disputes but not for muslims to have there version because apparently there gonna chop your hands off lol. If your going to be spokesman for anyone at least have a brain!

    19. Boyo — on 6th November, 2009 at 10:15 AM  

      “But these people are the same people who lived in the England that Dickens wrote about and who made up the Pals battalions in WW1. The world has moved on and they have lagged behind.”

      Well, yes. And no - these are the English people. Are their attitudes any more or less enlightened than the average Indian on the street? The average African or American? I don’t think so.

      The only real difference is the remarkable contempt with which the English middle class in particular has for the lower orders - I think that’s a key reason multiculturalism in particular has been pursued: because it’s true, it largely enriches the wealthy (nannies, cooking etc) as Andrew Neather wrote, and they have always, always despised and feared the working class who they even, really, deny an actual cultural identity. It’s a form of cultural genocide in the service of class interest.

    20. Fojee Punjabi — on 6th November, 2009 at 5:06 PM  

      Ouch. Must have hurt being verbally bitch-slapped by a “racist”, eh Hundal?

    21. Abdul Abbulbul Emir — on 6th November, 2009 at 5:49 PM  

      As ‘er indoors says :

      Abdul. These stand offs with EDL and UAF and what have you.

      They are highly ritualised almost orchestrated . I mean they are BUSSED IN for Allah’s sake.

      Only a few limp wristed slaps then follow.
      Are these real men ?

      Are these the same roast beef and ale Englanders who terrified half the globe Abdul ?

      Whatever happened to the real glorious ‘butcher’ riots of partition days and the French and Russian revolutions.

      What a poor lot they are nowadays. Softened by too much housing benefit and Wetherspoons special deals.
      That’s the trouble.

      Sometimes I worry about this country Abdul….

      A customer then comes in and buys the 40,000 ndsth Daily Mail that morning.

    22. Fojee Punjabi — on 6th November, 2009 at 5:55 PM  

      LOL :D

    23. persephone — on 6th November, 2009 at 6:00 PM  

      AAE @ 21

      I like your approach. You should take that act to the stage. I would pay to see it

    24. Chris Baldwin — on 6th November, 2009 at 7:43 PM  

      The English Democrats? Aren’t they just hard-right Tories? Islamists may be dodgy people, but I don’t think the English Democrats are any better. Screw them all.

    25. Don — on 6th November, 2009 at 8:49 PM  

      Chris,

      Are they? From what I can gather they are insignificant and pretty much single-issue English Parliament types. Traditional counties, traditional values etc. Anachronistic, sentimental tories seems more the case to me, but I just did a quick google.

      Their website says that they see Englishness as a ’state of mind’ and they claim to welcome anyone who shares their vision of England. Maybe they mean it. I doubt we’ll be hearing from them for long, but I don’t see them as having done anything to deserve opprobrium.

      Is there something you know that I don’t? Seriously. I just had a look at their web-site, Wiki and YouTube and saw nothing to arouse ire.

    26. qidniz — on 9th November, 2009 at 12:23 AM  

      Ouch. Must have hurt being verbally bitch-slapped by a “racist”, eh Hundal?

      He didn’t feel a thing. Utter obliviousness is what makes him the Sunny Hundal we all know and love.

    27. Sunny — on 9th November, 2009 at 12:31 AM  

      If I cared for what a bunch of chumps said about me online then I’d have stopped blogging ages ago :)



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