Will be keeping an eye on the rise of extremism in West Yorks (and beyond child care permitting) so will keep you posted!

“Well, I believe in freedom to protest and freedom of speech but I am worried about violence: elements in the EDL have form on this”

I notice you make no mention of ‘form’ when it comes to those – in no way violent and ironically fascist – anti-fascists in UAF.

Dan, I missed the UAF speakers so thanks for that extra info.

I don’t myself that calling the EDL fascists and nazis will help as it wasn’t the sort of sentiment I was finding from EDL supporters (though I didn’t get to question the hardcore as much as I liked) Thats for next time. If a substantial part of the EDL aren’t Neo Nazi wannabees then they see the whole EDL being labelled as such by the UAF and others then over time the rank and file don’t see the EDL as fsascist or Nazi and thus those names lose the power they have.

The trick will be to prise away the moderates with reasonable issues (immigration levels, integration, islamism) from the hardcore who are probably unreachable and just hate all things brown or other.

TCH

I attended the Leeds demos, thought I may as well throw in my ten cents.

The EDL were contained by a huge cordon of police, which made them pretty difficult to see. There were probably a couple hundred at the very top end – I saw them shepherded onto 2 coaches at the end of the day, so it can’t have been that many. Everyone standing around outside the cordon watching, who I overheard, seemed to think it was the BNP demonstrating, which might be a good thing. Oh, and the EDL can really sing! All that football hooliganism practice. Plus some of them had really nice little EDL jackets. Bless.

The UAF demo was a ragbag mix of socialists, trade unionists, middle class, punks, students and UAF stewards, probably a bit more numerous than the EDL. When the soundsystem was playing, and everyone was just milling around chatting this was a really pretty good demo. It showed an alternative to hate – lots of different types of people having a good time together. As soon as the UAF leaders started haranguing the crowd though, it got lame really quickly.

I wasn’t expecting to hear violence being advocated at this demo – maybe that was just me being naive – but being told we need to “crush” the “scum” with “brutality” is something I was expecting from the EDL more than the counter protest. Dehumanising those with other (albeit abhorrent) views, and urging violence against them in the first instance is kinda EDL. Retaliation is fine, but ‘rough justice’ from the off is just lame. Plus, having looked at both sides, if it came to a fight the UAF would have been the underdog. I think the crowning glory was when it was announced that we were going to march, and then stood for an hour waiting for the EDL to leave before the police allowed any reclaiming of the streets.

Also, the mix of different groups there lent a lack of focus to the demo. I don’t want communism, my trade union is totally useless, I don’t want revolution, I just want the EDL to be shown as a shower of losers. That kinda got lost among the red flags.

Finally, I think both demos should be dedicated to the patron saint of police overtime. 2 Helicopters, loads of horses, 20+ vans, hundreds of officers. The cost, once it comes out, will be huge.

Naadir Jeewa

”I too am unhappy with the UAF approach.”

Maybe we need a third group to turn out at these events, standing with placards which say ”No to EDL – No to UAF”.

Even if the groups aren’t related, then they’re still feeding from the same repertoire of antemurale myths as previous ethnic-nationalist social movements. What’s new for 2009 is some ‘moral innovation’ and some political framing.

I would use a COIN analogy here, but that would be too inflammatory methinks.

Naadir

I am pretty sure the EDL is a new invention, and the Stephen Lawrence ‘link’ because it uses the same three words is circumstantial and very flimsy.

How many patriotic/nationalist words can you use?… It’s like the People’s Popular Front for Judea.

As I say, that’s an extremely quick jump to associate murderous racists with white footie types who have shaven heads and are ‘proud’ of their understanding English values.

If one isn’t willing to countenance a distinction between the two then speaks volumes to me. It’s akin saying every religious Muslim is no different from a terrorist.