A Leeds report: stand-off between EDL and UAF
A contribution by regular reader The Common Humanist
The 31st of October was an un-seasonally warm day in Leeds and things, as they say, were afoot. The English Defence League, or EDL, was to hold a rally in City Square, near the train station in Leeds, at 1pm. On the nearby Headrow, outside the City Library, Unite Against Fascism (UAF) a counter demo would be held. So I thought it was time to investigate both these demos and this is what I found.
What are my concerns here? Well, I believe in freedom to protest and freedom of speech but I am worried about violence: elements in the EDL have form on this but I hope West Yorkshires Finest can act as a deterrent.
Who will turn up? What will the numbers be like? Will local Islamists put in an appearance or will the overwhelming sensible and sane majority has shackled the fringe extremists? This is Leeds; you never quite know how the details are going to work out.
The EDL
I arrive at 12.20 and the first thing I notice is the heavy police presence – at least three hundred or so deployed and in reserve in and around the Square. And two police helicopters are circling above. This could be overkill I wonder but then from the station I see a hemmed in mass of about 400 EDL protestors. They look almost exactly like a crowd of England fans with added placards – short hair and bald heads abound. A chorus of the national anthem is followed by what would become the signature chant of the day, ‘E-D-L’ repeated often and loudly.
They assemble in the central part of the square. There are alot of placards in evidence. I also notice a good twenty to thirty men wearing ‘EDL’ t-shirts or hoodies. These often have locations identified such as “EDL – Blackburn Division”. I wonder if these are organisers? Certainly they must be the hard core and pretty confident to be wearing them in public.
Placard Watch
“Al Qaeda Off Our Streets”
“Muslim – No Problem. Extremist – Big Problem”
“Women are not possessions. No to Shariah Law”
“Black and White Unite: English Defence League” [Surprising but genuine? Based on what I saw and overheard it would take a particularly brave black Britain to join the EDL]
“Chant Listen”
“No surrender to the Taliban”
“Islam out”
“God Save Our Gracious Queen” (the first verse only, repeated several times over the demo)
“Rule Britannia”
“You’re not English Anymore” (the tended to be aimed at passing none Whites and on at least one occasion that I saw non white police officers. Shameful on each and every occasion)
I notice there are lot of ‘casuals’ in the watching crowd that surrounded the demo, separated by a loose police cordon. The EDF themselves are surrounded by metal fencing with the entrances heavily policed. So far this looks well organised on all sides. Anyway, I circulate and chat to a few people in the crowd, aiming for the aforementioned ‘casuals’ – by these I mean chaps who look like football fans. A few conversations later I am struck by the contradictions here – there is a very English commitment to free speech and to the right to protest and a similarly English fear of illiberal, controlling religious and cultural impulses. That reminds me very much of growing up in a Labour heartland.
This stood in contrast to the more visceral racism that was expressed to some extent by about a third of the people I chatted with in the crowd. When I have dug a little deeper with people I find there are serious concerns over housing, jobs and the pace of change in their communities. One man stated that he’d seen his estate change out of all recognition in ten years and that the newcomers get preferential treatment. These fears move him and people like him to side with a racist hardcore.
The EDL crowd inside the square went through spasms of chanting and, as they waited for a delayed speaker, occasional surges towards the fence and the police. There were a couple of scuffles. The usual back and forth. Police dogs and horses were in attendance. A speaker arrived with a two coach loads of additional EDL ‘casuals’ but a combination of the noise from the police helicopters and the distance meant I couldn’t hear or see what was said.
And then came the tricky bit: just how do you disperse approximately 500 now very hyped up wannabee race and culture warriors? I found the answer was: with difficulty. So, a few running scuffles broke out in the streets around the station between the Police and Demonstrators. It was then the nature of much of the ground was revealed with some nasty racial insults being hurled around at passersby and the police and a couple of punches thrown at police and at the media. Not pleasant at all.
The UAF
In the midst of all of that I paid a visit to the counter demonstration. Now am no stanger to anti-fascist groups so was familiar with the bands, banners and abundance of smiles. In Leeds Lefties know all the best tunes. It was a smaller affair, say about 200 to 300 in attendance but very good natured. I missed the speakers – this was a theme of the day – and so followed a group of UAF protestors as they took a banner and had a frank exchange of chanting in City Square with a group of EDL who were outside the cordon separated
Placard Watch
“No to Fundamentalism and Fascism” [The most sensible thing I heard all day!]
“Mr Racist please take note. We all come from the same family tree”
Chant Listen
“Nazis, Nazis, off our streets”
What to make of it all?
So everyone had an afternoon out and about and I suspect both sides went home feeling pleased with themselves. Certainly a lot of the EDL types that I walked surrounded by around the station area were pretty hyped up. If a group of black or asian youths would have appeared at that point then the police would have been confronted with a nasty mass racially fuelled brawl. The news reports would certainly have been different. Leeds got lucky on Saturday.
Whilst there is a legitimate and necessary debate to be had about immigration and integration, make no mistake a large part of the impetus that propels the EDL members is a racism and a fear of the ‘other’. These fears have either morphed out of genuine concerns, such as housing and job security or they stem from the darker, irrational impulses of racial and religious hatred. A racism of what someone is perceived to represents and a racism of what someone is. Whatever the origin, there is a strong undercurrent within the EDL and its sympathisers.
I fear that traditional English concerns: freedom of speech, the right to protest, a liberal approach to society (in this case expressed through concern for women’s rights) are going to be hijacked and held hostage by a far right radical fringe. And that can only be bad news for Britain.
| Post to del.icio.us |
Filed in: Race politics, Religion
Very good post. I am glad you spoke to them. I posted this below but it is more appropriate here-
An account of Saturdays events in London fromStormfront detailing a fight between C18 and EDL.
Good post TCH.
A fairly reasonable post there TCH!
I’d expect if youths came buy and started saying “fuck you and your family” etc then I’m sure it would have kicked off. But simply the sight of brown faces you think would have been enough?
Remember the EDL officially, and many of their members tend to expressly oppose racism… and they have real enemies in the far-right racist groups.
I know it’s easy to see these football hooligans with skin heads and assume the worst, and yes some of them no doubt were, but generally they seem to be against racism. I know they have entryists, BNP and worse in their ranks…
From Bones’ link, the white nationalist forum Stormfront;
Could have come from an ‘grass roots’ Islamist forum or even MPACUK on one of their more aggressive says…
The fact that EDL are prepared to use fists against actual fascists must say something.
I’m not naive, and sure, there’s a significant minority in the group it seems with ‘race war’ intentions but I’m glad that TCH has taken the time to explain the attitudes and motivations behind EDL rather screaming FAAAASSSCIIISSTS!!
I’d be interested to know how serious the EDL are on combating racism in their ranks.
UAF… damn hippies! At least they didn’t kick off, instigate or attack the police as they have been known to before.
What I find interesting is that I have yet to hear from anyone who has joined the EDL, be it as someone who shared (or thought he shared) their views, or to infiltrate them, or discover their real views.
Are there any known articles, blogs etc. by such people?
Searching scholar.google.com for the EDL turns up one and only one reference, but intriguingly it comes from a Soundings article in 1999 about the death of Stephen Lawrence:
The cast bronze plaque set in the paving where Stephen died has been subjected to many atrocities – with swift response from Greenwich’s anti graffiti unit. From the plaque a pretty white-walled path passes under the Tudor-style terrace leading to a village green which could grace a travel brochure. For Christmas 1997 the walls proclaimed ‘EEDL – the Eltham English Defence League’.”
This leads me to wonder whether or not their Wikipedia entry is in fact incorrect.
Don’t try to softsoap the EDL Marvin.
Marvin, you do seem to be suggesting that because the egg may be bad only in places we should hold our noses and tuck in. EDL may well contain some genuine (and naive) non racists within its ranks, useful window dressing?
Perhaps I’m wrong and they are a positive development, but they certainly give out an ‘up for a ruck’ vibe which rings bells. The way driving a 4×4 into a jewellers’ window rings bells.
Wordpress has silenced me. NNOO!
Oh, ok now. I meant to say:
Searching the academic journals for the EDL turns up one and only one reference, but intriguingly it comes from a Soundings article in 1999 about the death of Stephen Lawrence:
“The cast bronze plaque set in the paving where Stephen died has been subjected to many atrocities – with swift response from Greenwich’s anti graffiti unit. From the plaque a pretty white-walled path passes under the Tudor-style terrace leading to a village green which could grace a travel brochure. For Christmas 1997 the walls proclaimed ‘EEDL – the Eltham English Defence League’.”
I’m pointing some facts Refresh. I’m sure you’d oblige in doing the same if people said every remember of MPACUK were an antisemitic jihadist. Some are, I’m sure, but not all and probably not most
Don’t play games.
What would I oblige you with? Confirming your weak attempt to throw the rest of us off your complicity?
There’s an interesting post here http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/6390 by “Dan” currently most recent post about violence being encouraged at the Leeds demo – not by the EDL though but by the anti freedom of speech group UAF.
The “UAF” appear prepared to use violence to suppress opinions it doesn’t agree with. Who are the “fascists” in this picture?
There’s no mention of the EDL anywhere from 1999 untl October 11, 2002, when in the London TimeOut, Robert Elms writes:
“Stephen Lawrence was not the first nonwhite person to be killed in Eltham and tragically it seems he may not be the last. Even more worrying is the way that far too many people from this community seem to give succour and support to the racist scum. Voting for the BNP, setting up something called the Eltham English Defence League, protecting the guilty with their silence, harassing refugees andclinging on to outdated, outlandish notions of racial purity. From afar this starts to look like some kind of embittered, evil enclave. I hope I’m wrong. I hope that the decent people far outweigh the filth, but decent people have to dosomething.”
The name “English Defence League” then disappears from newspapers until July 11, 2009 in the Birmingham Evening Mail.
Although, if you search over The Grauniad’s articles, you do find a mention of the historic “White Defence League” on April 13, when they published the orbituary of founder, Colin Jordan.
So either, English Defence League developed from the post-Stephen Lawrence racist movement, or it was another group that was reinvoking the memory of the White Defence League.
Interestingly, fascist bloggers like to frame the EDL as a “multicultural” group.
I agree with Marvin. Its not complicity. It is what it is. If the EDL have struck a chord with some disenchanted people we need to know exactly what chord is being struck and why- which this post addresses very well. I am prepared to accept that the EDL may not as a whole be racist, or even anti-Islam. I met the UBA a looooong time back who were saying the same sort of thing. They are footie types and would behave in footie sort of ways.
I don’t communicate in the same way, were the Police not about I would have been in great danger from them, but later I was able to communicate with one of their leaders in a reasonable fashion. Marvin is not supporting them, he is telling it how it is, which is I think useful.
I call BS.
You can’t explain away racist graffiti on the walls of where there was a memorial to Stephen Lawrence as “footie sort of ways.”
If it looks like a racist, sounds like a racist, it is a racist.
I’m not going to say I agree with Marvin, but think I agree with Dave Bones and that it’s not as simple as is said in post 13.
That sounds too close to the UAF position for my liking, and I have gone off them quite a bit recently.
I posted this youtube link of the UAF verses the EDL in Manchester before, and I said, as much as I find the EDL to be really really dodgy, and full of boneheads and lots of racists I’m sure, I’m almost more repelled by the UAF woman shouting over the megaphone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqeDsskcSVQ
It’s a class thing I think. Like when you get students from a university town, coming into contact with tough working class lads and women in pubs and clubs on a friday night. One group finds it hard to comprehend the mentality of the other.
But good post from THC, and also from Dan.
I still say there should be an attempt to talk the EDL down…. and not to be threatening violence agaist them.
If its hard to talk to them, just try to hand out some leaflets which point out some of the basic errors in their point of view.
They are a threat though. It’s how to handle them that I think is important.
Thanks bones.
Naadir
I am pretty sure the EDL is a new invention, and the Stephen Lawrence ‘link’ because it uses the same three words is circumstantial and very flimsy.
How many patriotic/nationalist words can you use?… It’s like the People’s Popular Front for Judea.
As I say, that’s an extremely quick jump to associate murderous racists with white footie types who have shaven heads and are ‘proud’ of their understanding English values.
If one isn’t willing to countenance a distinction between the two then speaks volumes to me. It’s akin saying every religious Muslim is no different from a terrorist.
Of course the seven missing years may just mean that the words ‘English’ ‘Defence’ and ‘League’ are quite likely to crop up in nationalist organisations.
I love Leeds.
I too am unhappy with the UAF approach. But I’m not going to pander or talk down actually-existing racism.
Even if the groups aren’t related, then they’re still feeding from the same repertoire of antemurale myths as previous ethnic-nationalist social movements. What’s new for 2009 is some ‘moral innovation’ and some political framing.
I would use a COIN analogy here, but that would be too inflammatory methinks.
Naadir I am not addressing your Stephen Lawrence link, I am addressing the EDL. The UAF position of shouting “nazi” at people might have been relevant in the 80s this is 2009. It is not my fault that a small number of black people relate to the EDL enough to join them. We are dealing with NOW, if stances taken in the past don’t fit today, change them.
Correction: I should have said TCH (not THC).
And after, I was refering to the post above my one, about ‘If it looks like a racist, sounds like a racist, it is a racist.’
Naadir Jeewa
Maybe we need a third group to turn out at these events, standing with placards which say ”No to EDL – No to UAF”.
d. bonnes- You can’t blame the UAF for the counter-demo’s shouting Nazi’s out. What words do you suggest they use to rally against these thugs. You have to remember when emotions are high and you have idiot’s giving sieg heil salutes I don’t think wondering over to EDL and giving them a lecture on the benefits of community cohesion would work.
TCH – a good post with a proper bit of fact-finding in it, which is very necessary at the moment.
(I already posted this on an earlier thread, but as this one is Leeds specific, thought I may as well put it here too. Nice post by the way TCH)
I attended the Leeds demos, thought I may as well throw in my ten cents.
The EDL were contained by a huge cordon of police, which made them pretty difficult to see. There were probably a couple hundred at the very top end – I saw them shepherded onto 2 coaches at the end of the day, so it can’t have been that many. Everyone standing around outside the cordon watching, who I overheard, seemed to think it was the BNP demonstrating, which might be a good thing. Oh, and the EDL can really sing! All that football hooliganism practice. Plus some of them had really nice little EDL jackets. Bless.
The UAF demo was a ragbag mix of socialists, trade unionists, middle class, punks, students and UAF stewards, probably a bit more numerous than the EDL. When the soundsystem was playing, and everyone was just milling around chatting this was a really pretty good demo. It showed an alternative to hate – lots of different types of people having a good time together. As soon as the UAF leaders started haranguing the crowd though, it got lame really quickly.
I wasn’t expecting to hear violence being advocated at this demo – maybe that was just me being naive – but being told we need to “crush” the “scum” with “brutality” is something I was expecting from the EDL more than the counter protest. Dehumanising those with other (albeit abhorrent) views, and urging violence against them in the first instance is kinda EDL. Retaliation is fine, but ‘rough justice’ from the off is just lame. Plus, having looked at both sides, if it came to a fight the UAF would have been the underdog. I think the crowning glory was when it was announced that we were going to march, and then stood for an hour waiting for the EDL to leave before the police allowed any reclaiming of the streets.
Also, the mix of different groups there lent a lack of focus to the demo. I don’t want communism, my trade union is totally useless, I don’t want revolution, I just want the EDL to be shown as a shower of losers. That kinda got lost among the red flags.
Finally, I think both demos should be dedicated to the patron saint of police overtime. 2 Helicopters, loads of horses, 20+ vans, hundreds of officers. The cost, once it comes out, will be huge.
Fundamentalism is very close to fascism, isn’t it? especially muslim fundamentalism
interesting post TCH
Cheers everyone for commenting.
Dan, I missed the UAF speakers so thanks for that extra info.
I don’t myself that calling the EDL fascists and nazis will help as it wasn’t the sort of sentiment I was finding from EDL supporters (though I didn’t get to question the hardcore as much as I liked) Thats for next time. If a substantial part of the EDL aren’t Neo Nazi wannabees then they see the whole EDL being labelled as such by the UAF and others then over time the rank and file don’t see the EDL as fsascist or Nazi and thus those names lose the power they have.
The trick will be to prise away the moderates with reasonable issues (immigration levels, integration, islamism) from the hardcore who are probably unreachable and just hate all things brown or other.
TCH
^W0t e sed!
nice one TCH bang on. I will look out for your posts + comments here.
Excellent post TCH. We need more fot his sort of thing.
An interesting report but this bit made me laugh:
“Well, I believe in freedom to protest and freedom of speech but I am worried about violence: elements in the EDL have form on this”
I notice you make no mention of ‘form’ when it comes to those – in no way violent and ironically fascist – anti-fascists in UAF.
Great article, TCH. Very informative.
Nice one, TCH. Groundwork is always valuable.
Aw shucks am blushing.
Will be keeping an eye on the rise of extremism in West Yorks (and beyond child care permitting) so will keep you posted!
Marvin,
In response to your comment @ 3 – there was a very real air of tension. All it would have taken would have been the appearance of a group of ethnic youths on Sovereign Street at 1530 and it would have been carnage I really think.