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  • Technorati: graph / links

    ‘Immigrant dies, we save money!’


    by Sunny
    3rd November, 2009 at 4:39 pm    

    A few days ago I pointed out that over 1300 children locked up in centres across the country simply because they were born to illegal immigrants. Predictably there was no outcry on the right from those people who claim to stand up for human rights and/or ‘compassionate conservatism’. This country has started demonising immigrants to such a point that there is little public sympathy for even the extreme hardships they face. There are only cries that we live in ‘soft touch Britain’, as if perhaps we should start importing Chinese style authoritarianism.

    Anyway, this is what I mean. Over the weekend the Daily Mail ran this story: ‘Migrant found dead in the back of a lorry as it prepares to enter Channel Tunnel‘.

    No sympathy for the dead man at all. Instead all the Daily Mail readers could do was thank heavens that they had been saved (allegedly) from funding his house, car and every mod-con known. Some of the top-rated comments said:

    one down, millions to go
    - crackers, yorkshire, 31/10/2009 2:42

    Good news. One less to worry about!
    - keith jones, porthcawl, south wales, 30/10/2009 22:13

    Shame but I would be a hypocrit if I said I was sorry!
    - Nanny B, West Sussex, 30/10/2009 17:42

    Yup. That’s the state we’re getting too now. A bigger list of the top-rated comments was captured here and by 5CC here.

    Completely shameful. The Daily Mail Online team eventually realised having these people celebrating a death might not look good alongside national blue-chip advertisers, and they deleted all the comments. How convenient.


                  Post to del.icio.us


    Filed in: Race politics






    41 Comments below   |  

    Reactions: Twitter, blogs


    1. Reza — on 3rd November, 2009 at 5:07 pm  

      If only people like Sunny had not silenced the debate on immigration and (bogus) asylum for the last few decades.

      If only they had not stymied the wish of the British people to defend their borders against illegal immigrants.

      If only they had not opposed the swift and uncompromising removal of illegal immigrants.

      If only they had not supported a massive and lucrative immigration and asylum industry that paralyses the removal of illegal foreigners.

      If only.

      Then perhaps people like this poor chap would never have risked his life in an attempt to enter this country.

      And desperate and angry people wouldn’t have made such callous comments regarding the loss of his life.

      You’re to blame Sunny. And people like you.

    2. Imran — on 3rd November, 2009 at 5:57 pm  

      That’s right, the recently established and immensely powerful lefty blogosphere has managed to shout down the main newspapers and political parties over the past decade.

      Stop parroting rubbish. asylum and immigration has been a big political and news issue throughout the past decade. hours and hours of broadcast coverage and miles of column print can testify.

      The Daily Mail and the Sun have been bashing immigrants and asylum seekers for the past 10 years - remember all those stories about dover being overrun? knife-wielding kosovans? - and haven’t relented since.

      The Tories, putting these issues at the heart of the 2001 and 2005 election campaigns, also placed the issue at the top of the news and political agenda. In fact, Hague went so over the top that even the sun criticised his ‘foreign land’ speech “It flirted with extremism and left a nasty taste in the mouth”, said the paper. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2001/mar/09/uk.conservatives1

      And Labour’s been very loudly legislating on immigration/asylum every other year. Remember when the 1999 asylum bill introduced vouchers for asylum seekers? or when the 2002 bill tried to ban their children from attending schools?

      No, the people who set and dominate the political and news media have basically legitimised the BNP’s main message - it’s OK to blame immigrants for all sorts of problems.

      The result is that voting BNP is less shameful than it was the past. That somehow voting for a racist party carries no moral price.

    3. Dalbir — on 3rd November, 2009 at 5:57 pm  

      Reza

      Don’t be naive to the fact that people who are plainly hate filled and heartless exist out there. Lumpen sections of such people align themselves to the Daily Mail.

    4. Sunny — on 3rd November, 2009 at 6:13 pm  

      If only people like Sunny had not silenced the debate on immigration and (bogus) asylum for the last few decades.

      You really are a crackpot.

    5. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 3rd November, 2009 at 6:16 pm  

      They’re not racist, they’ve got honest, legitimate concerns about how many foreigners are alive.

      If it weren’t for politically correct Guardianista liberals like you shutting down debate by calling racists racists, maybe there wouldn’t be so many foreigners, EVER CONSIDER THAT ?

    6. Refresh — on 3rd November, 2009 at 7:03 pm  

      Dalbir, no.

      There is an organised campaign covering quite a few of the talkboards pushing ever strident comments; its probably just me but I seem to have noticed it more since the BBC’s BNP Special.

    7. Charming Pete — on 3rd November, 2009 at 7:26 pm  

      Ironically, with regards to those comments, this country would be a far more pleasant place if the readers and staff of the Daily Mail were all to die off suddenly. They really are worthless human filth.

    8. Reza — on 3rd November, 2009 at 7:39 pm  

      Imran

      I disagree, The debate has been stifled. And this BBC report pretty much sums up what’s behind the widespread anger and exasperation that has spilled over into mean and nasty callousness among some thoughtless Mail readers:

      “Almost two-thirds of people in Britain fear race relations are so poor tensions are likely to spill over into violence, a BBC poll has suggested.

      …

      Of the 1,000 people asked, 60% said the UK had too many immigrants and half wanted foreigners encouraged to leave.

      …

      When Tory leader Michael Howard suggested communities couldn’t cope with the pace of immigration during the 2005 general election campaign, he was accused of racism.

      …”

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7352125.stm

      Now who were the people that accused him of “racism”?

      I wonder how long I’d have to look to find Sunny’s shrilling in there?

    9. Dalbir — on 3rd November, 2009 at 7:43 pm  

      Refresh

      Such comments have always been made. I think people became more ‘strident’ from 9/11 onwards myself though. It was at that point that I noticed shocking views openly aired on blogs and other Internet based forums. This has steadily become more and more widespread. So has my own habituation to it (which I’m sure is a good thing).

      When I first encountered such hate I was left shocked and drained. Now I have come to expect it. You spoke of campaigns in your post. I don’t doubt that there could well be some sort of concerted effort being made to push this thinking/agenda out there. Related to this is the thorny issue of discreet but hate filled people working within British society as well as the overt Rupert Murdoch types.

      Yep, I think we can now safely say that lunacy and hatred are on the rise.

    10. MaidMarian — on 3rd November, 2009 at 8:09 pm  

      It is sad to say it, but it is difficult to be surprised.

      These comments are simply a ratcheting up of internet commentary and it is an internet commentary that we deserve. We (with a capital W) have simply used internet debate to debase, well just about everything. Technology that could and should have improved our civil society has started to warp that society and us.

      Dalbir is spot on - only I would date the rise of internet vitriol to the Iraq conflict.

      We life in a time when comment is free and talk has become cheap to the extent we see in the article. We live in a time when people go onto the internet knowingly as a panto-dame. We are now almost unable to reign in our self-indulgence, abandon our dogma or even recognise the chips on our shoulders. Quite often accompanied by a breath-taking allegation that debate is somehow being ‘stifled.’ We are incapable of balance, only the most shocking hyperbole - ‘tyrant’ ‘criminal’ ‘blood-soaked murderer.’ What ever happened?

      What ever made revelling in death necessary to get even the passing notice that this website has given. Whatever made the moderators at a national newspaper so well…..words fail. Indeed, I look back at some of my more bad-tempered moments on the web with considerable shame.

      We deserve debate like those in the article, we deserve Melanie Philips and we deserve Jan Moir. And Sunny, you perhaps may want to dwell on the wisdom of an article titled, ‘Why Brown People should vote Tory.’

      I could not name one person who emerges with any credit from the bear-pit that is internet ‘debate.’ Indeed, I could not name anyone who thinks that a 24 hour news cycle and the way that news has to be manufactured for it is good, but here we are. We have fed the beast.

      Balance, honesty none of it matters, no one cares about anything other than who is the biggest panto dame - look only at Reza (1) - ‘You’re to blame Sunny. And people like you.’ I weep openly and loudly at the edifice of that towering monument to what Our Internet now is.

    11. marvin — on 3rd November, 2009 at 8:18 pm  

      The Daily Mail Online team eventually realised having these people celebrating a death might not look good alongside national blue-chip advertisers, and they deleted all the comments. How convenient

      Utterly shameful comments on the DM website, I’m sure we all agree they should be erased.

      But some of the worst comments I’ve seen on the blogosphere have been right here. I wouldn’t say they reflect opinions of the authors. Normally functioning human beings don’t say vicious hateful things without very good reason. But saying “How convenient” is rather childish, you’re ascribing murderous apathy to journalists for the second biggest newspaper in the country. I think it tadly unlikely that anybody working for the DM thinks such things, in fact anybody in the general population unless they’re BNP/NF boneheads or seriously screwed up mentally.

    12. Dalbir — on 3rd November, 2009 at 8:28 pm  

      @11

      I’m not so convinced. I’m sure the hate in some of those DM readers runs deeper than they would openly admit. Apathy is the least we could expect.

    13. Marcus — on 3rd November, 2009 at 8:29 pm  

      What on earth has this got to do with asylum issues.

      Britain is turning into quite a nasty place, this story gives a nice example.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3108987/Suicide-teenager-urged-to-jump-by-baying-crowd.html

      A large crowd of people calling for a suicidal teenager to jump. I have no idea how many in the crowd read the Daily Mail!

      Also the internet is a completely anonymous place where people can express views which they don’t necessarily agree with.

    14. MaidMarian — on 3rd November, 2009 at 8:35 pm  

      Marcus - Just to say that that is one of the most profoundly depressing articles I have read for a long time.

    15. marvin — on 3rd November, 2009 at 8:43 pm  

      Britain is turning into quite a nasty place, this story gives a nice example.

      There’s a truly vicious element running through our society with our younger people and those who never seem to mature. I presume it’s always been there, and it’s possibly better than it’s ever been…

      But in the days of instant mass communication these attitudes and acts seem all there more senseless and ubiquitous…

      Marcus – Just to say that that is one of the most profoundly depressing articles I have read for a long time.

      Agreed. If I had a gun and I happened to be in that crowd at the time I’d be hard pressed not to shoot any of the demented f**kers shouting “jump” myself…

    16. Refresh — on 3rd November, 2009 at 8:48 pm  

      Marcus,

      I was thinking about exactly that incident. It reinforces what MaidMarian said above. Although some of it comes from the bleeding edge of comedy, where some of it is quite perverse.

      A collective debasement. (And I do hope no one links that into the ‘broken society’ mantra).

      Dalbir,

      I guess you are right. I had forgotten how overt and nasty things got after 9/11 and more so after the Iraq invasion. Its not my memory that is fading, but more so how ‘accepting’ (or should I say disengaged) we become with each slander, each libel. The constant stream of allegations and implications start becoming background noise.

      Perhaps this should be a wake-up call. This far and no further.

      We should give short-shrift to petty point-scoring by bloggers and commenters.

      For myself, my introduction to vitriol actually was right here. I recall making a decision to stick it out, take a deep breath but never leave the field.

      MaidMarian, I have to say your #10 captures it all very well.

    17. MaidMarian — on 3rd November, 2009 at 8:51 pm  

      Refresh - Thanks!

    18. Imran — on 3rd November, 2009 at 9:20 pm  

      5 -

      Honestly? Do you really think that the voices of those concerned about immigration haven’t been the dominant voice throughout the past decade? do you think the mail and the sun have been gagged?

    19. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells — on 3rd November, 2009 at 11:33 pm  

      @18.

      Oh look, yet another memeber of the Islingtofascist yuman rites brigade coming to tell us honest white working class folk that xfactor isn’t as good as Chekhov, keep your elitist opinions to yourself liberati.

    20. Sunny — on 4th November, 2009 at 1:54 am  

      Disgusted - hehe.

      And Sunny, you perhaps may want to dwell on the wisdom of an article titled, ‘Why Brown People should vote Tory.’

      Jeez, given the amount of times people keep bringing that up, and completely missing the context and the point I made, you’d have thought I’d asked people to embrace Hitler.

    21. damon — on 4th November, 2009 at 9:32 am  

      The title of this thread came to mind yesterday when I heard it being discussed that Hackney and Tower Hamlets in East London had the highest rates of people recieving housing Benifit in the UK, where it reached 42%. Sure enough, the ethnic makeup of those boroughs soon came up from a couple of callers into the radio programme, and I see that comments on the Daily Mail website have touched on this too.

      I remember there were allegations of large scale housing benifit fraud in Hackney several years back.
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/may/17/race.world1

    22. Abdul Abbulbul Emir — on 4th November, 2009 at 10:41 am  

      As Mrs A said to me (again):

      That Sunny. He’s on dangerous ground with this dead immigrant mularky Abdul.

      After all 5 British soldiers have just been killed when an Afghan ‘policeman’ opened fire on them.

      What is he going to say about that. Another rant against our paper I suppose.

      (We sell millions of Daily Mails in my corner shop incidentally )

      Mrs A is not to be placated Mr Sunny.

    23. camilla — on 4th November, 2009 at 11:18 am  

      oh Sunny, you did it again! you wrote all these comments to put the whole thing in your blog - that’s really shameful

      speaking of shame - I have read a lot of comments made by immigrants or their children on their forums about the native citizens - most of them were derogatory.

      but I know it’s not a shame for you … or for them

      maybe those commentatores have also read those comments?

      who should feel shame? why should people feel it towards people who hate them? it’s a complex issue and you are interested in one side only. so what’s the point?

    24. camilla — on 4th November, 2009 at 11:37 am  

      and anyway - if people are tired of immigrants (or of whatever), what should they do? make themselves like things that they hate? why? for what? for the immigrants’ sake? good relation should be mutual

    25. camilla — on 4th November, 2009 at 11:40 am  

      or just take commentators from this site

    26. Dalbir — on 4th November, 2009 at 11:51 am  

      The fact that people are equating dislike or apathy with celebrating someone’s death just goes to show how warped these people are.

    27. Dalbir — on 4th November, 2009 at 11:51 am  

      The fact that people are equating dislike or apathy with celebrating someone’s death just goes to show how warped they are.

      On the other side, we should stop imagining everyone as generally tolerating and fair.

    28. camilla — on 4th November, 2009 at 11:56 am  

      I don’t think that they are celebrating it or it makes them happy… they just say “so what?”… it is not right, nothing to be proud about, but it’s the results of the general “not-rightness”.

    29. camilla — on 4th November, 2009 at 11:58 am  

      general tiredness and disappointment with it all, the policy, ecomonics, political correctness

    30. zaffer — on 4th November, 2009 at 12:02 pm  

      I can’t believe how thick people are to blame immigrants for the dire situation in the UK. When the tories campaigned on this in the last general election the UK public shooed them off realising this is not a bread and butter issue. Now that we’re in this financial mess, because of reckless, high risk bankers, the immigration issue is to blame with each party wanting to be seen to be the toughest. Most economic migrants are leaving this country faster than coming here. Most migrants I know come here to work in jobs that the indigenous population are too lazy to do!

    31. bananabrain — on 4th November, 2009 at 12:15 pm  

      @charmingpete:

      Ironically, with regards to those comments, this country would be a far more pleasant place if [immigrants/muslims/jews/blacks] were all to die off suddenly. They really are worthless human filth.

      can you really not see what the problem is?

      b’shalom

      bananabrain

    32. persephone — on 4th November, 2009 at 12:59 pm  

      These same DM commentators are most likely those who think not being able to say such things openly are what is wrong with political correctedness. They would not see the difference b/n abhorrence and PC. Perhaps labelling it as PC makes them feel better - they can make a better pact with their conscience and even sleep at night thinking they are on some moral ground.

      And perhaps they are just tired of Nick Griffin and the BNP’s ‘saleable’ language tactic and make such comments as it gives them an outlet to dig down into their NF roots.

      Nick, should let them off from having to use ‘saleable’ language when they are raring to be unleashed.

    33. persephone — on 4th November, 2009 at 1:14 pm  

      “desperate and angry people wouldn’t have made such callous comments regarding the loss of his life.”

      These DM commenters are most likely those who think its political correctedness gone mad for them not to be able to make such comments openly. They confuse abhorrence with being PC.

      I blame Nick Griffin and the BNP. After all, Nick’s new tactic of using saleable language to win over the non racist moderate people and gain more free media coverage means they cannot voice their real ideas, unless anonymously over blogs.

      Come on Nick, give them a break. They are making such comments because its their main outlet to dig down and unleash their NF roots. And they are raring to do so, in light of their leader on QT not being as forthright on QT. This has led them to be angry & desperate to take control themselves.

    34. persephone — on 4th November, 2009 at 1:15 pm  

      “desperate and angry people wouldn’t have made such callous comments regarding the loss of his life.”

      These DM commenters are most likely those who think its political correctedness gone mad for them not to be able to make such comments openly. They confuse abhorrence with being PC.

      I blame Nick Griffin and the BNP. After all, Nick’s new tactic of using saleable language to win over the non racist moderate people and gain more free media coverage means they cannot voice their real ideas, unless anonymously over blogs.

      Come on Nick, give them a break. They are making such comments because its their main outlet to dig down and unleash their NF roots. And they are raring to do so, in light of their leader not being as forthright on QT. This has led them to be angry & desperate to take control themselves.

    35. Charming Pete — on 4th November, 2009 at 1:30 pm  

      Although I was venting spleen a little fruitily there, I’m not sure I do see what the problem is I’m afraid.

      Being an immigrant isn’t a value system, being Black is a matter of ethnicity and culture, being Muslim or Jewish is a matter of religion and culture.

      Being a Daily Mail reader is a matter of choosing to take part in a poisonous conversation about British life - and of choosing to have a petulant, small-minded, inhumane value system that is very comfortable with racism, misogyny and homophobia and that hates those (immigrants) who have shown initiative and guts and tried to improve their lives.

      The paper is an entirely toxic element in British society - and its writers and readers have made the choice to hold the attitudes that make it so. It is a deliberately unpleasant paper in a way, I would suggest, that The Sun isn’t.

      The absence of such attitudes would make Britain a more pleasant place. It’s up to them. At the moment they’re choosing to be snivelling scum.

      b’shalom

    36. Abdul Abbulbul Emir — on 4th November, 2009 at 1:46 pm  

      Being a Daily Mail reader is a matter of choosing to take part in a poisonous conversation about British life –

      Charming Pete.

      Mrs A is not pleased with you.

      After all the Daily Mail constantly insults the BNP with vilification . Even the great Littlebum calls them odious.

      And he should know.

      There are many articles about extreme nastiness of N Griffin. Many people come into my shop to buy this paper.

      I have educated all my children privately on the proceeds.

      As for the Sun Mrs A says that R Murdoch is a great big globalising rascal so does not concern himself with issues of pressing importance to British people.

      Mrs A has asked me to tell you to work that out for yourself.

      Sorry.

    37. Charming Pete — on 4th November, 2009 at 1:56 pm  

      Right…

    38. Dalbir — on 4th November, 2009 at 3:40 pm  

      @28/29

      Funny, if some of us brown folks were openly like “yawn…another whitey dies in Afghanistan/Iraq….x to go”, there would be a massive furore. But saying “1 down and a million to go” (or whatever) for darkies seems fine and something we shouldn’t bat an eyelid at.

      Whilst the debate about immigration gets hijacked and abused, I think we should open up another one about the ugly side of British (paticularly English), society. By this I mean that lumpen section that wallows in hate and negativity, like it was some sort of cultural duty. It is no fucking coincidence that Daily Mail sales figures are so high!

    39. Kulvinder — on 4th November, 2009 at 4:18 pm  

      If only people like Sunny had not silenced the debate on immigration and (bogus) asylum for the last few decades.

      If you’re going to go down the route of moronic rants; you may as well blame the tories for constructing the channel tunnel.

    40. Binky — on 4th November, 2009 at 6:38 pm  

      This person died in France?

      Why is anyone in Blighty bothered about him and his sad fate?

      Is he being recycled in a Parisian medical school by now by the ever-frugal waste-not-want-not Friggies?

    41. lfc4life — on 6th November, 2009 at 2:05 am  

      Has it come to this level where the death of someone looking for a better life is applauded and cheered.

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