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  • Jat drive against honour killings


    by Rumbold
    20th October, 2009 at 9:06 pm    

    Leading Jat organisations (Jats being an ethnic group of around 30 million people who originated in North West India) have banded together in order to try and curtail ‘honour’-based violence amongst Jats:

    To check honour killings and violence among the Jats, the Federation of Jat Institutions, an umbrella body of 12 Jat bodies throughout the country, have called 300 leaders and experts of the community in Chandigarh on November 22 for a seminar.

    The move is considered very timely because Haryana has witnessed a lot of honour killings in recent months, raising question over the role of the the state government due to “it’s soft approach towards wrong decisions of khaps [local councils which are frequently accused of being backward]”…

    Khaps of Jats generally object to love marriages on the basis of gotra, caste and brotherhood and even issue fatwas to kill the couples.

    Given the shocking gender imbalance in the Punjab and Haryana, as well as the prevalence of ‘honour’-based violence, hopefully conferences like this will contribute to a liberalisation of attitudes.


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    Filed in: 'Honour'-based violence,India,Sikh






    30 Comments below   |  

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    1. pickles

      New blog post: Jat drive against honour killings http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/6268




    1. MixTogether — on 20th October, 2009 at 11:25 pm  

      Liberalisation of attitudes is overdue, to say the least.

      Was having a conversation yesterday with one of the MT members who works for KN. We were saying that the long term goal of HBV campaigning has to be a global network.

      Too much of this stuff happens piecemeal (and sadly that includes in the UK). Where India is concerned, there is the added problem of a rotten police force that makes enforcement very hard in some areas.

      The UK is arguably the world leader in fighting these crimes, and we should be looking to consolidate our expertise and export it abroad.

    2. Sunny — on 21st October, 2009 at 3:14 am  

      expertise MT? You mean of coming on to blogs and comparing Asian parents to the BNP? Yeah I can see that going down well in other places too…

    3. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 7:30 am  

      Leading Jat organisations? Who are they now? The corrupted SGPC and Akali Dal?

    4. Rumbold — on 21st October, 2009 at 10:42 am  

      Sunny:

      MixTogether is right, in that the fight against HBV would benefit from a more co-ordinated approach. Too often we have seen suspects flee abroad and then disappear. And he wasn’t saying he was the expert, rather that Britain has a number of people, both at NGO and at state level, who have experience of dealing with HBV.

      Dalbir:

      I’m not sure. They didn’t name them. Some people like the Akali Dal (not saying I do though).

    5. Morrigan — on 21st October, 2009 at 10:54 am  

      Sunny,

      If Asian parents are prepared to do the BNP’s bidding then the comparison is valid, no?

    6. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 3:40 pm  

      I think this is great. From what I have seen in my own family there certainly seems to be some liberalisation regarding partner choices there.

      From some peculiar reason most (not all) Jats get really strange when it comes to marriage matters. The way I see it, with the skew between gender ratios, flexibility will have to occur in the immediate future, whether people like it or not. Unless Jat men want to try bumming each other and seeing if they can continue their clan lineage that way.

      Rumbold: I would think that most would support the AD out of caste based biases. Some may have been bought off. I can understand though. Given Congresses past ‘relationship’ with Sikhs (i.e. sponspored pogroms and genocide) and the blatant denial of identity by the BJP, they don’t exactly have better alternatives. Panjab politics, gets lower and lower. We need our own Barack. Whatever happened to those forthright, morally upright, brave Singhs? Is everyone sitting around fretting about how much their daughter’s wedding will cost to worry about this?

    7. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 3:45 pm  

      Morrigan

      If having a preference for partners from your own community is akin to supporting the BNP, someone had better tell those millions of black people in the US that they are racists. Actually, the whites even more!

      Otherwise your point is just another manifestation of hatred towards ‘Asians’. Jerk.

    8. Morrigan — on 21st October, 2009 at 4:33 pm  

      Dalbir, i’ll make it nice and simple for you, as you obviously haven’t got it already.

      The BNP do not want mixed race relationships.

      Therefore

      If you prevent a mixed race relationship, you are doing their dirty work for them.

      Jerk.

    9. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 4:47 pm  

      So by your logic, the vast majority of African-Americans (who have a preference for relationships within their community) are doing the BNP’s dirty work for them?

      Hang on! The BNP are against the recent interfering wars in the middle east - so am I! I must be a BNP!

      Your point is complete shite. If people want to stick to their own - fine. That doesn’t make them aligned to rabid, supremacist, hate filled neo-nazis. Geddit?

    10. Morrigan — on 21st October, 2009 at 7:05 pm  

      I’m afraid it is you who doesn’t get it, Dullbir.

      If people want to stick to their own, that is not a problem to anyone. That is fine and dandy.

      The problem is when someone (let’s call them ’1′) seeks to stop another person (’2′) from pursuing a mixed relationship, by force.

      Then 1 is in the unfortunate position of doing the BNP’s dirty work for them.

      The BNP don’t have to worry much about white/Asian relationships at the moment, because they know the Asian community will keep the numbers down for them, by force!

      What an embarrassment for the Asian community, to be the BNP’s most effective enforcers against miscegenation.

      I don’t expect you to get it, on the basis of your previous answers…

    11. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 7:18 pm  

      What an embarrassment for the Asian community, to be the BNP’s most effective enforcers against miscegenation.

      I think the Asian community are wonderful for actually offering a future where not everyone is an Angliscised twat myself. Personally, I hate coconuts for the record. Mainly because I think this phenomena stems from low esteem about ones race/culture/heritage in the first place.

      Besides what cave are you living in? (Up north I bet). There is lots of miscegnation between ‘Asians’ and others going on from what I can see around me. Including within my own family.

      So I conclude that you must be an idiot? Leave your attic and get out a bit more perhaps?

    12. Morrigan — on 21st October, 2009 at 7:24 pm  

      Dalbir, you have just shown your true colours for all to see :/

    13. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 7:29 pm  

      @12

      Yep. I hope so. I’m not trying to hide them in the first place mate.

    14. Rumbold — on 21st October, 2009 at 8:43 pm  

      Dalbir:

      Thank you for the information about the Akali Dal. However, this was just ridiculous:

      “Personally, I hate coconuts for the record.”

      Surely people should be able to pick and choose what parts of what culture suit them? Otherwise we might as well just have a monocultural, monoreligious state imposed from the centre. Is saying that any different from the BNP saying that anyone who doesn’t follow a narrow interpretation of ‘British culture’ isn’t British?

      Nor is anyone saying that people shouldn’t marry within their own religion/race. What I and others object to is the idea that you should be pressured not to marry/date outside your race/religion. Once again, it is the mirror image of the BNP’s focus on racial purity.

    15. KB Player — on 21st October, 2009 at 9:15 pm  

      I think the Asian community are wonderful for actually offering a future where not everyone is an Angliscised twat myself. Personally, I hate coconuts for the record. Mainly because I think this phenomena stems from low esteem about ones race/culture/heritage in the first place.

      Hilarious! Easy direct translation into BNP speak.

      I think the white English community are wonderful for actually offering a future where not everyone is a curry munching half caste. Personally, I hate mixed bloods/Eurasians for the record.

      And the last sentence you don’t even have to translate.

      Mainly because I think this phenomena stems from low esteem about ones race/culture/heritage in the first place.

      The BNP are supposed to remove the racial qualifications for joining their party. They should open a special anti-miscegenation sub-group, where Dalbir would feel at home.

    16. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 9:31 pm  

      What makes you think I am anti-miscegnation?

    17. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 10:08 pm  

      I just don’t think people should be foisting their own cultural norms/values on other communities in such a dismissive way.

      Look where that got whitey in Afghanistan when they tried to push western ‘women’s lib’ values out there.

      You have values you like, Great. keep them to yourself and don’t try and shove them down other people’s throats. That starts much of the negative issues we see around us these days.

      When I spoke of coconuts before I meant those that for some reason, have such an internalised shame of their cultural heritage, that they become what was called in the colonial times the ‘apeing woggery’. Rumbold, no one who grows up here isn’t influenced by the values/norms of the country to a greater or lesser extent. The transfer of ideas between cultures is healthy. But when you see those ‘try hards’ totally transforming themselves to fit it, it is a gross site to behold. To see someone totally adopt and internalise the oriental/occidental framework is. What is slyly hidden by white people is the fact that they subtly insist on this conformity as a precondition to progress within their economy. The message is clear. What you are is not good enough. be more like us white people.

      Plus those of you trying to suggest I am a believer in the notion of racial purity need to stop. No such thing exists in my opinion. I have no problem with racial mixing in my family. What I am protective about is the family values and heritage being preserved. This is about preserving ideas not twisted notions of DNA purity.

    18. KB Player — on 21st October, 2009 at 10:39 pm  

      What makes you think I am anti-miscegnation?

      Your statements.

      What I am protective about is the family values and heritage being preserved. This is about preserving ideas not twisted notions of DNA purity.

      Yer, and the BNP are trying to disguise their “pure race” shit with some “pure culture” shit. You should join them. They’re desperate for more party intellectuals.

    19. persephone — on 21st October, 2009 at 10:43 pm  

      ” What I am protective about is the family values and heritage being preserved. This is about preserving ideas”

      Would you specify the ones you think should be preserved.

    20. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 11:05 pm  

      KB: That is your issue of jumping to conclusions. I have a few mixed race children in my family. They’re not treated any different from any other kids. Can you say the same? So take your BNP accusations, roll them up and stick them up your arse.

      Thing you need to understand is that the BNP are only interested in preserving the interpretation of British culture that evolved around the whole recent colonialist experience. Nowt else. Besides, thisis really more an Anglo thing as they managed to temporarily make bitches out of the other tribes here as well as lots of us in other places.

      Pers: Well, the Sikh ones that we agree as a family should be preserved amongst us. It’s way too late for a full interview mate.

    21. Don — on 21st October, 2009 at 11:07 pm  

      Dalbir,

      Your posts have all the characteristics of those of a bigot. Are you sure you are not one?

    22. Dalbir — on 21st October, 2009 at 11:16 pm  

      Well. I don’t think so.

      I believe many of you all have deeply engrained orientalist/occidentalist world views that see things in terms of white progressiveness and ‘other’ backwardness that you need to get over. Are you sure, that you have not imbibed this framework from growing up in an environment that pushes it on you constantly through the media etc.?

    23. persephone — on 21st October, 2009 at 11:23 pm  

      OK Dalbir. Its just that the reasons for preserving Sikh culture sounds like the arguments made by the far right for preserving British culture :-)

      And given that Sikhism is relatively modern compared to other religions - it in itself was an innovation at the time with the aim to be progressive in what it considered negative aspects of indian culture

    24. KB Player — on 21st October, 2009 at 11:23 pm  

      I have a few mixed race children in my family. They’re not treated any different from any other kids. Can you say the same?

      Yes.

      I believe many of you all have deeply engrained orientalist/occidentalist world views that see things in terms of white progressiveness and ‘other’ backwardness that you need to get over.

      Could you please quote something from the thread as evidence for that analysis?

    25. Amrit — on 22nd October, 2009 at 4:45 pm  

      If Sikh honour killings take place largely in the Jat community (which shouldn’t exist because there’s meant to be NO FUCKING CASTES in Sikhism - apologies for the rage), then this is (hopefully) a big step. Otherwise, it’s about flipping time!

      Without meaning to be a wet blanket, I hope that more Sikh organisations in India will make the connection between ‘pre-empting the possibility of an honour killing’ and ‘therefore not having girls in the first place/ killing them off or pressuring them into marriage when they’re not ready’ that gets made by bigots too soon.

      On an unrelated note, branching off from Dalbir’s, ahem, interesting comments - I think that people can be ‘race traitors’ or, to use a better term, ‘collaborators’ in the sense that they work actively against the interests of other people of their own race. PROOF should also be offered of this, because otherwise you’ll just get it, and its various bastardizations, being thrown about. For example, I consider Rajinder Singh a race traitor because he has supported the BNP. Jews who betrayed their fellow Jews during the Holocaust were also, effectively, ‘race traitors,’ because the Jews were viewed as a single race at the time.

      As to wanton use of bastardizations: the term ‘coconut’ which Dalbir so delightfully used. I’ve been called a coconut, and I’ll bet he thinks I’m one! To which I would say, ‘And what?’ Coconuts are sweet inside and they have the power to knock people out. That sounds like me, I hope :-D .

      PLUS - fun Sikhi fact - coconuts (along with paise, or money in English) were frequently offered to the new Guru, or as a sign of veneration generally. Guru Harkrishan Ji, Guru Arjan Ji, Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji all did this - Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave them to the Panj Pyaare.

    26. Binky — on 22nd October, 2009 at 5:29 pm  

      Interesting news from Arizona:

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/attempted-honor-killing-in-arizona-muslim-runs-down-daughter-for-becoming-too-westernized.html

      What can one say?

    27. Dalbir — on 27th October, 2009 at 2:43 pm  

      Sorry. Been REALLY busy and haven’t had time to reply.

      KB Player: To me the whole debate about “Asian” marriage preferences has the orientalist framework about it. If people think this is so bad, why don’t African-Americans get the type of condemnation thrown at brown folks for having open preferences for marraige within the black community?

      Amrit: Yes, there are race traitors. The fact on the ground (from my exprience) is that the type of person that claims to work “from the inside” is usually full of crap. I’m not saying that you are one of these types. But the reality is that they are usually more interested in their own agenda than any progressive one for ‘their’ wider community. frequently they are text book tokens and try and alleviate the dissonace involved in this this by claiming to be some super represetative on the inside. However in their day to day actions however they delievr no punches (as you put it) and are timid types often willingly blind to the wider discrimination against others like themselves within the organisations they work. This, I believe, is purely down to not wanting to lose whatever position they have been given.

      In the end, they are plain self serving, like most people. Not everyone can make wider sacrifices like Singhs’ Bhagat, Udham and Kartar Sarabha. But that being said, I don’t have to like or make excuses for backboneless tokens. The ones I especially detest are teh ones that get wheeled out, as evidence that an organistion/institute is not racist, when evidence to teh contrary is abound (i.e. the police). These are some of the worse traitors in that they are active tools used to keep the truth hidden.

    28. nobodyshero — on 8th December, 2009 at 9:49 am  

      Sunny no discussion on peoples right to protest without being shot at.Im sorry only irish and greece are victims of police brutality. The sikhs always deserve it .I thought malkiat singh could do a bhangra cover of bloody saturday bloody saturday.

    29. jattanputter — on 17th December, 2009 at 10:21 am  

      lmao atleast these jatt organisationa are better than those idiotic sick minded babber khalsa and isyf anf muslim sikh federation

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