» Watching the proceedings live on http://www.oneclimate.net/ 4 hrs ago

» Developing countries heavily criticising Danish PM and 'agreement' for abandoning them to impact of climate change #cop15 4 hrs ago

» When politicians say things are 'looking good' in Copenhagen - it means we're fucked. It means they managed a poor compromise 10 hrs ago

» Damn, Nick Cohen has the MI5 & BBC editors rumbled. He should be running counter-terrorism & the BBC! http://bit.ly/7L8LEL 13 hrs ago

» My #followfriday recommendation for this week is @ThePlumLineGS - incredible source of info on Democrat politics in the US 15 hrs ago

More updates...


  • Family

    • Ala Abbas
    • Clairwil
    • Daily Rhino
    • Leon Green
    • Liberal Conspiracy
    • Sonia Afroz
  • Comrades

    • Andy Worthington
    • Angela Saini
    • Aqoul
    • Bartholomew’s notes
    • Blairwatch
    • Bleeding Heart Show
    • Bloggerheads
    • Blood & Treasure
    • Butterflies & Wheels
    • Campaign against Honour Killings
    • Cath Elliott
    • Chicken Yoghurt
    • Clive Davis
    • Daily Mail Watch
    • Dave Hill
    • Dr StrangeLove
    • Dr. Mitu Khurana
    • Europhobia
    • Faith in Society
    • Feministing
    • Harry’s Place
    • IKWRO
    • Indigo Jo
    • Liberal England
    • MediaWatchWatch
    • Ministry of Truth
    • MT and friends
    • Natalie Bennett
    • New Humanist Editor
    • New Statesman blogs
    • open Democracy
    • Operation Black Vote
    • Our Kingdom
    • Robert Sharp
    • Rupa Huq
    • Septicisle
    • Shiraz Socialist
    • Shuggy’s Blog
    • Stumbling and Mumbling
    • Ta-Nehisi Coates
    • The F Word
    • Though Cowards Flinch
    • Tory Troll
    • UK Polling Report
    • Women Uncovered
  • In-laws

    • Aaron Heath
    • Ariane Sherine
    • Desi Pundit
    • Get There Steppin’
    • Incurable Hippie
    • Isheeta
    • Neha Viswanathan
    • Power of Choice
    • Real man’s fraternity
    • Route 79
    • Sajini W
    • Sarah
    • Sepia Mutiny
    • Smalltown Scribbles
    • Sonia Faleiro
    • The Langar Hall
    • Turban Head
    • Ultrabrown



  • Technorati: graph / links

    Looking after ‘white working classes’ with govt money


    by Sunny on 16th October, 2009 at 9:26 AM    

    You could call it the inevitable result of multiculturalism, or perhaps the natural outcome of this government’s blinkered approach to dealing with ‘community cohesion’. John Denham takes aim at white working-class (WWC) resentment, reported the Guardian yesterday.

    A programme of £12m was outlined to to address legitimate fears and concerns that if neglected could prove fertile territory for extremism.

    I suspect that after years of banging the drum that WWC voters are being ignored, Denham was finally offered some money in order to deal with ‘extremism’. Patronising, but perhaps an inevitable outcome of tabloids constantly screaming that money is being thrown at immigrants and asylum seekers (oh really?) while WWC people are ignored.

    It’s arguable that New Labour only has itself to blame. It is also true many of those areas were thrown into destitution thanks to Thatcher’s policies. The blame games comes easily. This is the destructive side to identity politics: defining communities only by race and pitting them against each other in a competition for resources.

    It’s also worth stressing that ‘identity politics’ isn’t confined to minorities. Long before these organisations and race-activists came on the scene, Nick Griffin was fronting National Front demos demanding ‘white power‘. They started this game and have been complaining since.

    So what is to be done? Mark Easton’s report for the BBC quotes people claiming they felt “ignored” over decisions to move in white Kosovans and Poles into their area. Others said it wasn’t their country any more. Of course none of this is new - Enoch Powell claimed to hear the same 40 years ago.

    There are two issues: economic, and cultural. The first won’t be resolved until whole communities and areas are lifted out of poverty and destitution because they’ll want someone to blame for their plight. The second requires a move towards a sense of ‘British identity’ that people already living in this country, and newcomers, can be persuaded to buy into. A common language national, so to speak, so that people feel less afraid of others and have something in common. Yes, you could also ban immigration from non-EU countries but it’s not going to have much of a dent really.

    I found the government’s announcement amusing because it’s seeking to address populist tabloid anger, while doing exactly (putting people into racial boxes) that the tabloids rail against in the form of multiculturalism. We’ve come full circle. Soon we’ll have white community leaders (Nick Griffin will no doubt apply) before they’re rejected for being too extremist and putting people into boxes and…



    Filed in: British Identity, Race politics




    • James Cowley
      I totally agree, we need to instil a sense of Brutishness in our schools, therefore making citizenship a core part of the national curriculum. This will show our youth the reasons to respect their cultural identity, and there country also.

      I know too well the fears and worriers of the WWC. I did a Psychological based dissertation on the attitudes towards those of different cultures in the workplace. The problem is centric of innate human emotions, we fear the unknown, .i.e. if they speak in a foreign language we have inherent fear towards them.

      It’s all basic Psychology.
    • Reza
      “Denham said action to promote the leadership potential and capacity of black and Asian groups was necessary but could seen by some as unfair.”

      “…could be seen by some as unfair”? Well fancy that.

      "Class still matters in Britain and the politics of identity ignores it at its peril.”

      Politics of identity, politics of class. You can never create enough ‘victim’ groups.

      But look, he goes on to contradict himself:

      “Denham said it was necessary to make clear that the government was committed to making sure that every community in every corner of the country knew it was on their side. "No favours. No privileges. No special interest groups. Just fairness," he promised.”

      I’m confused. Giving money to “black and Asian groups” to “promote [their] leadership potential” is a “favour”. A “privilege” to a “special interest groups”.

      And isn’t “A £12m programme to connect with resentful white working-class” creating a new “special interest group”.

      But that’s the problem with an intellectually bankrupt ideologies like multiculturalism.

      It’s bound to create intellectually bankrupt solutions to the problems it causes.
    • Morrigen
      Sunny,

      Long before these organisations and race-activists came on the scene, Nick Griffin was fronting National Front demos demanding ‘white power‘. They started this game and have been complaining since.

      Wasn't this actually a reponse to the 'black power' movement started by the black Panthers?
    • Mr. Feathers
      "Denham cited the example of a new fast-food franchise, on the edge of a deprived estate, that recruited staff from an agency used by Polish workers, leading to local resentment. At the same time a nearby new retail store recruited a much larger number of local people. The fast-food franchise agreed to seek local recruits and recognised that unemployed local people may need pre-job training first."

      Let's translate that, shall we?

      They're thick, ill-educated twats who would be wank at the job and could never hope to get a job on the open market, hence they resent people who work harder and better, so the government spends my money on propping them up.

      This is a consequence of socialism. You give taxpayers' money to one group, why not another? People accuse me of favouring minorities. In fact I am a libertarian who thinks government money, short of basic sustenance for the disabled, old & those who can't find jobs shouldn't be doled out at all- no council houses, no child benefit, just telling people to think long and hard about whether they can provide for their kids by their own efforts.

      Or whether they think moving to this country is a good idea, given that they should be allowed to work, with the restrictions Blair and Brown placed on them lifted, but also expected to work rather than claiming taxpayers' money.

      Will this fucking shit appease BNP voters? No, it will just encourage their resentment, grievance and identity politics still further.

      Reform and drastically shrink the welfare state and we won't see people at each other's throats over who gets what from the pockets of people who work for a living.
    • Morrigan
      Let’s translate that, shall we?

      They’re thick, ill-educated twats who would be wank at the job and could never hope to get a job on the open market, hence they resent people who work harder and better, so the government spends my money on propping them up.


      OK, now try saying that same phrase about Asian or Black people instead of WWC people, and see how far you get.
    • Guest
      Morrigan at 4:

      "Wasn’t this actually a reponse to the ‘black power’ movement started by the black Panthers?"

      Those Black Panthers - boy they were a powerful lot.

      So what's your theory on the Nazi saluting and Sieg-Heil chanting a response to ?
    • Mr. Feathers
      What? There are a lot of blacks and Asians who are exactly the same, and there are those who aren't. It depends on their upbringing and culture, which varies within races. There are a number of unemployed Pakistanis/Bangladeshis near me who are essentially chavs, but many from the exact same background who aren't who are professionals or working-class people who despise the underclass. Look at Sayeeda Warsi, for example, from a working-class Asian family who strived to improve their lot in life and succeeded. I know of many such people.

      Again, why are Poles preferred on the open market by employers? What's your answer, Morrigan, eh? You're portraying me as a reverse racist. From the look of your other posts, it's because you view everything in terms of race and can't see people as individuals who are either worthwhile or not depending on their attitudes and behaviours.
    • Mr. Feathers
      What do you think "may need pre-job training" means?

      Aren't Poles white, anyway? They were last time I looked.

      Yes, the unemployment rate amongst blacks is higher because a disproportionate blacks have fallen victim to underclass "culture" and welfare dependency. But I know of white estates which are just the same.

      Why is it so hard for racists and socialists to understand individualism?
    • soru
      One thing that's not clear from the article is whether Denham actually said 'white working class'. If he did, that's clearly nonsense - an area doesn't become more or less worthy of support depending on the skin colour of the people there. You can't say 'you don't qualify for funding because of the Desmond's at number 9 - maybe you should get rid of them?'.

      Thing is, presumably that's not what the proposal actually amounts to. Reading the article closely, that phrase is never used in quotes. So is that just the Guardian's spin on this story?
    • damon
      The most alarming thing in that BBC report by Mark Easton was the statement that on one estate the reading ability of many adults was that of seven year old children.
      There lies the main problem I'd say.

      And while not wanting to deflect this to be about asylum seekers, the case mentioned about the mother and daughter from Bangladesh had me wondering about whether what was offered by the state was so bad.

      She gets 42 pounds a week for herself compared to 64 for an adult on Jobseeker's allowance.
      Plus 50 pounds a week for her daughter and a flat with all bills paid.

      The money given is certainly miserly, and if it was paid at the same rate that non asylum seekers get, it would still be mean.

      Some people on those estates would need the extra 22 pounds for a few beers and and a couple of packets of fags, which the woman from Bangladesh might not need to buy, so she's not much worse off than them.
    • Reza
      Morrigan

      “OK, now try saying that same phrase about Asian or Black people instead of WWC people, and see how far you get.”

      I agree with you.

      Mr Feathers

      “…ill-educated twats who would be wank at the job and could never hope to get a job on the open market, hence they resent people who work harder and better, so the government spends my money on propping them up.”

      However, I also agree to some extent with you.

      The truth is that the failure of a group is not automatically the fault of someone else. Many white working class people live in a defective culture, created in part by Thatcherism, Socialism, welfare dependency, drink, drugs, the breakdown of the family and a sense of entitlement.

      And the various ‘ethnic’ groups languishing at the bottom of society, the Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Somalis and Caribbean communities, experience their own problems for reasons of their own cultural deficiency. But multiculturalism won't allow for that possibility.

      We either recognise that, and deal with it, or else pin the blame for their failure on imaginary constructs such as ‘racism’ and ‘discrimination’.
    • Refresh
      Mr Feather

      Why do you use the term Chav? Its offensive.
    • Morrigan
      Mr Feathers,

      I understand individualism, but I'm just a product of my Multicultural environment and years of conditioning to view everything in terms of race. Funny how that has become less fashionable on the left now that white people have sussed how the game works!

      Adnan,

      I'm just pointing out that the BNP did not 'start it' as Sunny would have readers believe- they were merely apeing the Black Panthers, as it were, with their 'white power' chants.

      The Panthers were more powerful than the BNP- thankfully you don't get armed parades of BNP members or provisional police forces patrolling white areas.
    • douglas clark
      Sunny,

      Excellent post.

      I agreed particularily with this bit:

      It is also true many of those areas were thrown into destitution thanks to Thatcher’s policies. The blame games comes easily. This is the destructive side to identity politics: defining communities only by race and pitting them against each other in a competition for resources.


      That, it seems to me anyway, is where identity politics takes us. I have no time for it, really.

      Why cannot resources be thrown at, say, an open football club that will take anybody from any 'community' whatsoever? The way for society to 'win' is to deny money to seperatists.
    • Chris
      The thing that's really offensive here is the condescending and deliberate acceptance of the BNP's claim to represent the white working class. We have in our society an underclass who have failed in life despite the opportunities presented to them. We have people who couldn't be bothered with school and they can't be bothered with work. And some of them apparently choose to blame their own shortcomings on people who are different to themselves. They are NOT the white working class. The white working class are not idle racists and the suggestion that they are is disgusting. The idea that the BNP in any way represent the white working class is incredibly offensive and the way this government has attempted to use racism is vile beyond belief. The prime minister who prattled on about "British jobs for British workers" should have been fired the next day.
    • Reza
      douglas

      I think you're in a muddle.

      "That, it seems to me anyway, is where identity politics takes us. I have no time for it, really."

      How can you have multiculturalism without identity politics?

      How can you tolerate, promote or celebrate 'minority' cultures without identifying them?
    • Mr. Feathers
      Morrigan, I neither know nor care what the left do. I am a conservative and I have taken some influence from libertarians. I vote for UKIP. Did you seriously get the impression I was left-wing from my posts?
    • Paul
      Sunny wants " a move towards a sense of ‘British identity’ that people already living in this country, and newcomers, can be persuaded to buy into."

      That identity simply does not exist. The search for an inclusive identity is what integrationist nationalism is all about. It is no less nationalist then any other nationalism, and usually it can only be enforced by coercion. And it remains a 19th-century ideology, and inherently anti-European, because for instance the UK inclusionism stops at the Channel.

      But fortunately (from the anti-nationalist point of view), it doesn't sell. Of course there are some people in the UK who are prepared to accept Albanians and Poles as fellow citizens, if they speak reasonable English. There are some people in the Netherlands who refer to Muslims born in the country as 'Dutch'. But all the evidence suggests that the vast majority still define their national identity in ethnic terms - meaning that they will not extend a common identity to the foreign-born or to first-generation immigrants.

      The evidence also suggest that the majority in each western European country has such problems with Islam, that a common identity with Muslims is out of the question.

      The viability of a common identity is not as such a 'white working class' issue. It is a statistical issue, a question of whether the population in general is prepared to accept the identity. It can not be decided democratically, because identity is primarily a matter of social consensus. It is not enough to have 85% of the population treat Muslims as fellow citizens. If a significant minority reject the sense of common identity, then it will not function as such.

      I am not saying it can not exist, obviously national identities work in specific cases, otherwise there would be no nation-states. That does not mean that you can simply put forward identity X, and expect everyone to "buy into" it.
    • Reza
      Paul

      "That identity simply does not exist. The search for an inclusive identity is what integrationist nationalism is all about. It is no less nationalist then any other nationalism, and usually it can only be enforced by coercion. And it remains a 19th-century ideology, and inherently anti-European, because for instance the UK inclusionism stops at the Channel."

      Yet the French seem to have no problems with imposing the concept.

      Multiculturalism is, in effect, illegal in France.
    • Paul
      Although the BNP may still be a party with working-class supporters, Geert Wilders shows that the issues are not class-based, at least not in the Netherlands. A survey earlier this year (link, in Dutch) showed that his supporters are (by now) a cross-section of the population. His potential support extends to no less than 40% of the voters.
    • Paul
      I don't know if multiculturalism is illegal in France, but even if it is, that does not make nationalist monoculturalism "European" in the sense I meant.

      Of course nationalism is historically a European ideology, but equally it is dependent on exclusive national identities, and the consequent partition of the continent into nation-states (with restrictive immigration policies). The integrationist nationalism advocated by Sunny Hundal can not be any less exclusive - unless he wanted to open the UK borders, which he doesn't.
    • Kenny
      Chris (15)

      We live in the age of the quick soundbite!

      "British Jobs for British Workers!"

      is just the right length for the short attention span of a telly audience

      "Cabinet posts for one-eyed Scotch politicians!"

      is too long.

      Geddit?
    • Reza
      Paul

      "Although the BNP may still be a party with working-class supporters, Geert Wilders shows that the issues are not class-based..."

      What issues?

      They both oppose mass immigration and Islamification. However, the BNP are a racist party. Wilders' party is not racist at all.
    • chairwoman
      "It is also true many of those areas were thrown into destitution thanks to Thatcher’s policies. The blame games comes easily. This is the destructive side to identity politics: defining communities only by race and pitting them against each other in a competition for resources."

      I think it's about time we "senior" Picklers put our heads together and contributed a series of posts about the advent of Thatcherism and the consequences, particularly for the WWC.

      Refresh?

      Douglas?
    blog comments powered by Disqus

    Pickled Politics © Copyright 2005 - 2009. All rights reserved. Terms and conditions.
    With the help of PHP and Wordpress.