Inayat Bunglawala sticks up for gay Muslims
I think Inayat Bunglawala, one of the grandees at the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), deserves praise for sticking his neck out to attack homophobia (given the MCB’s lamentable record) on the subject:
“In Muslim communities the issue of homosexuality is very rarely discussed in a candid manner and is all too often wished away as if it is an affliction that involves other groups, not them. Not far from the surface, however, are reports of gay Muslim men being pressurised into rushed marriages by parents desperate to avoid any social stigma. The woman’s family is never told the truth about her husband’s sexuality, of course, with the result that another soul has to endure unhappiness due to the initial failure to face up to the issue. It is a highly dishonest and unethical approach.”
From what I have heard, this seems true in other communities as well. There needs to be a way to make homophobia as unacceptable as racism (to see the contrast between the two, look at how homophobic abuse in schools is tolerated far more than racist abuse).
(Via Yossarin at the Spittoon)
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I rubbed my eyes in astonishnment when I saw this earlier.
If Bunglawala is sincere – and I have no reason to doubt it – then this is a brave stand to take at a time when tolerance for homosexuality among British Muslims is at zero % according to a recent survey.
when tolerance for homosexuality among British Muslims is at zero % according to a recent survey.
arrgh, I hate it when people mis-represent. I’m pretty sure that survey was about how many people though homosexuality was compatible with Islam.
PS – that ad for ‘singlemuslim.com’ is scary.
Where are all the smear-peddlers now eh, the guy’s stuck his neck out for Gay Muslims and will probably get a lot of stick for it. I thought Bananabrain, Sid/Faisal etc thought Bunglawala was a woman-hating, gay-hating Nazi concentration camp guard?
Where are they now?
And Shatterface – which survey is that? Or is it a non-existent survey, one that you’ve been given by the Daily Mail non-existent survey departments, always marked out by “according to a recent survey”?
ABOUT FRICKIN’ TIME.
And ohmyGod, YES. I have seen so much casual homophobia in schools, it makes me wish I could slap kids upside the head. Given that religion has been particularly responsible, historically, for the social policing of individuals’ sexuality, so religion should be forced to butt the fuck out now and let sexuality retreat to the private sphere.
Can somebody PLEASE explain to me why a lot of straight men get so weird about gay men? Generally, women don’t get anywhere near as bothered by lesbians. Yes, I know that’s a generalisation. It really is incredible though, I’ve never understood it. Unless someone is trying to have sex on top of you, or with you, what business of yours is their sexuality?!
Denim Justice:
It was Faisal’s blog that flagged up this information, and if you read the comments underneath said blogpost you will see Faisal and other Spittoonians (if that is the correct usage) praising Inayat.
Amrit:
I agree wholeheartedly.
In part it is due to the fear of ‘being tainted’, as if by not sneering/condemning gay men you risk becoming, or being labelled as one.
It’s good that Inayat Bunglawala said that. I get the MCB and the MAB mixed up sometimes. Is one less reactionary than the other?
I think that it’s fair that some communities don’t really understand the gay rights agenda.
If they are opposed to promiscuity on religious or cultural grounds, then I can see why they might not really get the politics of Peter Tatchell or what goes on in a gay scene like that in the Manchester Village or in places like Key West Florida or Provincetown in in Cape Cod in the USA.
A Provincetown Tea Dance for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vKaRR6aeZE
The MAB and MPAC are worse than the MCB, or at least that as the case the last I heard.
What Rumbold said above:
In part it is due to the fear of ‘being tainted’, as if by not sneering/condemning gay men you risk becoming, or being labelled as one.
Look, in this case it’s a straightforward religious position. I know homophobic Sikhs, Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. Even Hindus, though less homophobia in India. I don’t think it’s a straight-forward heterosexual men hating homosexual men dynamic.
I feel (if you take the religious/cultural context) it has also to do with sexual insecurity. Men are supposed to be sexual “predators”, and so with gay men around, some straight men feel like they are also prey, and that makes them uneasy. It also explains why women do not feel threatened by lesbians.
It also explains why women do not feel threatened by lesbians.
I’ve known a few who do. But generally you’re probably right. But then my experience is also that men are generally feel less threatened of each other in a professional context and women more. I’ve sceptical of the idea that some men are homophobic because they think they’re in competition with gay men. Hmmm…
Will this see the Bengali Muslim gay community in the East End coming out in pride?
Er… I never said it was. I know it’s a position within virtually all religions, and even in the ones where there’s NO official position (Sikhism etc.), people use ignorance to fill in the gaps. I do feel however that, given that in many cases religion has been used to sanction bigotry, the only way to undo that is using religion – and education of course.
And I wasn’t talking about specific contexts (i.e. a professional context), I was talking about in general public space and I admit, thinking more of informal encounters.
Of course women feel threatened by each other in professional settings. In many situations a woman will have moved hell and high water to get to where she is, and does not want to be replaced by another female because:
a) deep down she knows that many companies think, ‘The less female workers the better,’
b) in a sort of warped sense of fair play, she doesn’t want to see the newcomer have it easier than her, because then the newcomer might rise faster and her hard work will pass either mostly or entirely unrecognised.
I don’t agree with this at all, and it’s interesting but not surprising, that more non-feminist women seem to behave in this way. They internalise the awareness that ‘fair’ in our society usually just means ‘Everyone should get screwed over equally’ and then apply it. It is also, as you know, why SA mothers-in-law ruin their d-i-ls’ lives.
Thanks a lot, patriarchal attitudes!
Ravi – thanks, that was very illuminating. Rumbold too, thanks. I’ve always thought that the hostile reaction of straight men to gay men was interesting, because it seemed to me to say a lot negative about conventional masculinity. This is probably backed up by the fact that many homophobes are closeted and/or bigots on other fronts (misogynists, racists etc.).
Who said that?!
What’s your evidence for ‘a lot’?
Leon – Pretty much every guy I’ve known bar some at university?
While it is true and universally-accepted fact that my family are insane (you better not ask me for evidence of THAT), I’ve seen a lot of homophobia in my personal experience. British-born SA men seem to often be, if not Beenie Man-homophobic, then ‘soft’ homophobic, where they will say things like:
‘I don’t mind gays, but if one came on to me/I saw them kissing on the street…’
That was not meant to be some highly-scientific research query, if it was, do you think I would have asked for answers in the comments thread of a bleedin’ blog post?!
Ravi,
some straight men feel like they are also prey,…
Yeah, well. Some of us can only dream.
I agree with Amrit.
Some men also make a point of saying someones gay (a stranger in the street), or comment that you can always tell a guy is gay (again about a stranger)
Amrit I was responding to Ravi
Perhaps sometimes its due to denial. Denial because of social conditioning not to admit to a man having a feminine side.
Sunny said a few posts above:
Would these hetrosexual men even know what this homosexual man was about?
I don’t think so. The Castro (in San Francisco) is so far removed from the way of thinking of strongly religious people. Although I’m proud to say that my elderly Irish Catholic mother is very liberal on this issue. Several of her favourite radio talk show hosts are gay, and she’s listened to them talking on all kinds of topical issues for years and likes and respects them (or not) regardless of their sexuality.
Anytime I tease her when she mentions one of them with: ”but he’s gay” she retorts ”so what?”
Maybe we should encourage people to watch the film about Harvey Milk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unu-9vM9VZw
Good on Inyat! I knew he’d see sense if people just kept talking to him.
“I’m pretty sure that survey was about how many people though homosexuality was compatible with Islam.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality
“None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable.”
Presumably if something is “morally unacceptable” it isn’t compatible with islam and vice versa. There is also a difference between homosexuality and homosexual activity,often emphasised by religious apologists, not only muslims. In general, the important thing is that people should be able to distinguish between morality and legality and recognise that what is legally acceptable in a society should be decided on a different basis to what is morally acceptable to a religion.
Certainly a welcome remark by Innyat B for all the right reasons – as closeted people marrying/being forced to marry – is a well known cause of misery for the indiviudals affected and their spouses and cuts across all religions and societies – ask any divorce lawyer.
I’m more amused by Amrit’s question though – and think he should get out more. Men will always like toilet jokes and a certain type of mildy homophobic-ish humour – but this doesn’t make the participants homophobic (watch Graham Norton to see what I mean)
Also, its very last millenium for straight men in London to ‘feel threatened’ by gay men – when
a) factually, the reverse has often been true physically
b) every smart single straight man in London surely knows that gay friends, like babies and dogs in parks, are really useful pulling accessories (and good for party invites)
c) the public at large – yes even old, religous people, are not really offended or all that interested by the thought of homosexual behaviour – the primary public images of George Michael, Stephen Fry and Peter Mandelson are careless dope fiend, cleverest man in England and Prince of Darkeness – not their private sexuality. Even Elton John is seen as primarily a diva/friend of Diana more than a friend of Dorothy. (not the most complex of Venn diagrams perhaps, but there’s a distinction nonetheless)
More historically, I think you will find that contrary to popular perception – and ironically, given the use of lesbian imagery in straight male pornography – straight men are actually ‘more threatened’ by lesbians – or at least the good looking ones.
Think about it – gay men may sometimes be the object of envy for some straights (as they’re more likely to be in consensually open relationships) but their overall preferences are much the same as straight men when it comes to football, alcohol and drugs – which is ideal for socialising with the added bonus of not sexually competing for women (ie; the Blackadder II “Just leaves more rampant totty for us real men, eh?” principle)
Whereas lesbians are firstly more likely to be seperatist or undercover socially (understandably perhaps given aforementioned perving tendancies of straight men) – but more significantly – are potential competitors sexually.
The unspoken truth from many a swinging experiment or free love commune is that however much men are biologically predisposed to scatter their seed in as many ways and places as possible – they will gladly settle for mongamaous family raising if the alternative is seeing their female partners run off with other women…
(A practical risk in threesomes, given that men’s ability to give orgasms is usually diminished once they’ve had their own. I’m not going to draw the diagram – you should either know already – or want to gather your own empirical evidence)
I’m no socio-biologist but I’d guess this risk is one of the underlying historical causes of patriarchy and men seeking to control women’s sexuality.
Good to see public debate about important issues:
http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/2486/30/
Will the Muslim leadership ever embrace the values of real free speech?
Don’t hold your breath, as the Americans say!
thanks for pointing out that we at the spittoon can give credit where credit’s due. only one thing – you should note that he’s *not* saying that being gay is OK, only that persecuting someone for being gay is wrong. now, i know that’s not exactly an ideal final result, but it is certainly praiseworthy and is a massive step in the right direction, so all hail mr bean.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Binkstein @ 24: Take that article and shove it. Thanks.
AsifB:
‘He’ is a she, thank you very much! And whilst the latter may be true, you can’t invalidate my experiences just because yours aren’t the same.
And wow, full of generalisations much? You made some interesting points, but
There are so many gay men I have met who do not adhere to this AT ALL. I’m not saying that that therefore invalidates it, but you are making a huge assumption.
With regards to lesbians, popular culture has often given men the impression that virtually all lesbians are either:
a) willing to snog women or participate in 3somes for their personal sexual pleasure
b) straight-women-to-be who just need the ‘right man’ to turn them
So… I’d say you’ve rather glossed over that power element of the perving on lesbians, and not taking lesbianism seriously, that happens so often.
Just because men ‘shouldn’t’ feel threatened, it doesn’t mean that they’re not, and I never claimed men in general were. I’ve read about it before and talked to people, but I thought I’d ask male posters what they thought as a refresher, and was wondering if they couldn’t shed some light on why SA and black male identity in particular often seems to be so… disturbed by gayness, that it needs to reduce it to the level of a perversion to be actively avoided or mocked.
Sunny – do you know if there is much homophobia (generally) among young Indians? It’s just the levels of homophobia amongst young British-Indians in particular that baffles me. I initially wondered if it was a class/education thing, but I’ve known a fair few middle-class Asians show homophobia in some way. It’s often ‘soft’, but still… what’s the need for it?
Oh dear …
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/manchester-square-september-09-a-battle-that-must-be-won-misogyny-islam
… and now we have to worry about Islam, Islamophobia, Islamophilia and even chaps-on-chaps, too
Well it’s a good start.
Let’s see if he keeps it up when speaking to a mainly Muslim audience…
on perving on lesbians, you do know that’s not actually about lesbians, right? uncle banana’s theory on this is about men and quantity.
one beer, good.
two beers, better.
you see where i’m going with this. nobody’s actually interested in lesbianism per se, it’s more about, as it were, bang for your buck, if i may use such a tasteless phrase.
b’shalom
bananabrain
Maybe Inayat caught “Dostana” when it was shown on one of the South Asian satellite/cable channels here in Blighty a few weekends ago…..
Heh Jai.
Banananabrain:
It is a start though. And tolerance can often lead to acceptance in time, as people stop being so fearful of the ‘other’.
rumbold:
are we still talking about lesbians or are we back to bungalawala?
b’shalom
bananabrain
Old Inayat.
Amrit – apologies for getting your gender wrong.
I thought I used enough ‘some’s and ‘sometimes’ in my post to make it clear I don’t support generalisations about groups of people, so sorry if you got that impression. But aren’t you doing the same by saying homophobia is an issue in “SA and black male identity in particular”?
I’m aware of the types of comments you’re referring to by some ‘SA and black’ males but don’t really think the underlying attitudes are ethnically based. Though yes, some men do see being homophobic as part of their badge of identity. And I say in my para (b) if they’re straight and homophobic they’re fools( or they could be sometimes repressing their own homosexual leanings as sometimes happens in all societies )
On a related new point – whilst there is an overlap between homophobes and misogynists, you can equally get subcultures of macho males (of all ethnicities) who have sex with other men, whilst remaining or sometimes being overtly more misogynistic. Human beings never get it right do they?
As for ‘glossing over’ the power element of perving on lesbians – I think Bananabrain is on the right lines on what I actually meant in referring to threesomes and communes – the perennial porn fantasy is by defintion unrealistic – lesbians do not want to have sex with men, full stop. Men fantasise because they like quantity – and hence like the idea of ‘fantasy bi-sexual women’ etc But its unrealistic for most people in most situations – not that this will stop people fantasising or even trying to put it into practice – its partly social conditioning, but also human nature.
Oh yes, and I ended my earlier piece by referring to “patriarchy and men seeking to control women’s sexuality.” This is hardly glossing over power relationships is it?
Much though we love him [he looks so like one of Attenborough cute marmosets] Inayat Bungyawala is not a ‘real’ Islamic scholar.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5312276/oxfords-latest-prize.thtml#comments
It would be more useful to know what the Qatari-funded Tariq Ramadan, now an Oxford Professor, no less, has to say.
He can be contacted at Oxford easily enough.
He is not an Oxford Professor.
He has a research fellowship at one of the colleges.
Issues of same sex attraction are important, but not the most important priority matter, its an emerging matter. I’d imagine prof ramadan would be a lot more eloquent and enlightening than inayat (who is more of an umbrella activist type), mr bonkstain. However its not anybody inparticulars specific subject.
Judith butler and talal asad, who have a book coming out on secularism, could reach the spot.
Cjcjc is one for splittin hairs, innie?
Click on #36 above and check fer yerselves whether the learned Dr. Moratorium-on-stoning can be described with a straight face as a Perfessor or not.
Mad Mel says he IS!
Look!
http://www.ox.ac.uk/gazette/2008-9/weekly/300709/notc.htm#13Ref
See?
If he ain’t a Perfessor, what izzie? Huh?
AsifB:
I don’t so much think it is an ethnic issue as a class issue – and – I do think religion or the influence of religious parents feeds into it.
I wasn’t trying to deny that there aren’t white homophobes either. However, very overt homophobia IS a problem amongst young SA and black males. I think that gangster rap is partially responsible for this (as well as the cartoonish masculinity it sells) as well as the notions of cultural superiority that a surprisingly large amount of Asians have.
For example, my parents, while bigoted and contradictory, are in practice liberal. They are also both university-educated… yet they say (and believe) things like: ‘But there wasn’t any homosexuality in India when we were growing up!’ and ‘What’s the point of it? It produces no children.’ They tend to associate it with the more general ‘moral breakdown’ of white Western society. And that’s the thing – given that my dad is a community leader (!), I’m certain they’re not alone in holding those kinds of beliefs!
I am 2nd-gen though, and I sure as hell hope it will be better with the next lot.